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Grot
12-08-2008, 03:26 AM
What do i need to know about upgrading the fuel system on a 1st gen 3SGE.

I know absolutly nothing about fuel systems.

Will something be needed to control the upgraded injectors/fuel pump?
do certian things need to be done or not done?

RedRkt01
12-08-2008, 03:53 AM
Why are you trying to upgrade the fuel system?

Ryan
12-08-2008, 04:39 AM
Here is the thing, unless you have something to tune it with, it will just run extremely rich.

The main thing is, you have to keep the right air fuel ratio.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoichiometric#Stoichiometric_coefficient

You want 14.7:1 as your a/f ratio.

So basically, if you up the fuel, somehow you have to up the air, in turn messing with your computer, so in order to do it properly, you have to have an safc or vafc or something of the sort.

Grot
12-08-2008, 04:46 AM
thats what i wanted to know. i was just seeing if the upgrade was worth doing. and how hard/expensive it would be.

Ryan
12-08-2008, 04:51 AM
Its not really worth it unless you plan on dumping a bunch of money into it. If you went n/a-t then you would need to upgrade the fuel system, but thats up to you....

Grot
12-08-2008, 04:53 AM
whats the best bang for your buck power wise. keeping the car n/a.

Ryan
12-08-2008, 05:11 AM
Just your basic bolt-ons such as intake, header, exhaust, ignition upgrades, and possibly head work if you want to mess with it.. If not, just do bolt-ons, and then throw some nitrous at it.. like a 50 or 75 shot.

RedRkt01
12-08-2008, 02:08 PM
My thing is that unless you have demand for the fuel there is no real reason to do it.

nuclearhappines
12-08-2008, 04:56 PM
Redrkt is 100% right.

If i'm not mistaken , the 1st gen 3sge has 295cc/min injectors ... that is capable of flowing just short of 200 hp.

You are currently making around 130 to 140 hp with a 9.5:1 compression ratio, a 2.0 litre, at ~6000 rpms.

Even if you cam the car to make peak power at ~7200 (around redline), match it with proper intake / header / exhaust mods that's still around 165hp ... you could even stroke it up to a 2.2 and bump up the compression ratio to around 11.5:1 and you'd still be shy of the 200hp mark.

So in summary, there is no need to upgrade the delivery (pump,injectors,regulator) side of your fuel system.

Mods available for your car are pretty much : Intake , Header , Exhaust , Flywheel , (possibly cams but you'd have to look or talk to TED) ... and a fuel controller.

All of this together can put you at that 165hp mark.

Then on top of that it would be safe to spray a 75hp shot of wet N2O. But at this level you will need your pump to flow around 240hp total so at this point I would look at upgrading your fuel pump to deliver that (or installing a fuel pressure safety switch to your nitrous system for safety if you don't).

without the added air (from the modifications) there is no need to upgrade the fuel side.

RedRkt01
12-08-2008, 05:16 PM
Redrkt is 100% right.

Now you're all on notice! :bigthumbu

Grot
12-08-2008, 05:47 PM
Redrkt is 100% right.

If i'm not mistaken , the 1st gen 3sge has 295cc/min injectors ... that is capable of flowing just short of 200 hp.

You are currently making around 130 to 140 hp with a 9.5:1 compression ratio, a 2.0 litre, at ~6000 rpms.

Even if you cam the car to make peak power at ~7200 (around redline), match it with proper intake / header / exhaust mods that's still around 165hp ... you could even stroke it up to a 2.2 and bump up the compression ratio to around 11.5:1 and you'd still be shy of the 200hp mark.

So in summary, there is no need to upgrade the delivery (pump,injectors,regulator) side of your fuel system.

Mods available for your car are pretty much : Intake , Header , Exhaust , Flywheel , (possibly cams but you'd have to look or talk to TED) ... and a fuel controller.

All of this together can put you at that 165hp mark.

Then on top of that it would be safe to spray a 75hp shot of wet N2O. But at this level you will need your pump to flow around 240hp total so at this point I would look at upgrading your fuel pump to deliver that (or installing a fuel pressure safety switch to your nitrous system for safety if you don't).

without the added air (from the modifications) there is no need to upgrade the fuel side.

Thanks.

So no need for fuel upgrades at all in my case.

RedRkt01
12-08-2008, 06:16 PM
Unless you have some super-duper secret project you're thinking of........that's why I originally asked why you wanted to do an upgrade. If you don't have some super-dupre project in mind, then you don't have a need. ;)

nuclearhappines
12-08-2008, 08:09 PM
take the car to a dyno and check out the hp and AFR

If your afr is very far away from the range 13.0:1 to 12.0:1 then a simple fuel controller and a dyno tune may be the only thing you 'need'. If everything looks good, then no you don't need any work.