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View Full Version : 2azfe swap homework



ciento44
11-24-2008, 07:48 PM
Ok... first off. Let me just say that i'm not interested in hearing the naysayers on this idea in this thread. I'm not interested in hearing how much easier a 3sgte swap will be, and how the 3sgte is a better motor blah blah blah.

I want to explore the idea of this swap, and also would like to know if anyone has done it before. This would be looking to put this motor in a 4-6th gen GT/GTS.

Wiring will be a pain in the ass, we already know that. I'm more concerned with how feasible it is when talking about engine/tranny mounts/axles/hubs, so on and so forth.

So here are some questions:

1) Has anyone done, or does anyone know of this swap being done? If so, link to pics, write-up, details, ANYTHING.

2) Does the 5-speed that cames available with this motor hold any power?

3) Does anyone have detailed pics of a tC/Camry engine bay with this motor, showing mount locations?

4) Weight of the motor + 5speed transmission vs. 5sfe/3sgte/1mzfe w/ tranny?

5) Info on hubs and axels with this, what bolt pattern, etc....?


I know this subject has been brought up in passing before, but i'd really like to explore it and see if this is truly feasible or not. I have a reason for looking into this, and i'll outline that in a little while.

Smaay
11-24-2008, 08:44 PM
I believe the tranny is pretty healthy, the Tc is pretty boost friendly and i dont hear about too many blown trannies

ciento44
11-24-2008, 09:04 PM
im sure nobody has bothered because of the fabrication invloved with mounting and making it work.

this is just as bad as all the 3S-GTE fanboys out there that want to put one in their 7th gen celica....stock to stock, the 2ZZ-GE will out perform the 3S-GTE.

if you have the $$$ by all means go for it. i do believe the tranny is pretty healthy, the Tc is pretty boost friendly and i dont hear about too many blown trannies

This is the reason i held off with explaining the WHY for the time being.... :squint:


I'm looking around and doing research, too.... so don't look at this as a thread that says "Hai guise! Ima put a Scion tC motor in my car because it'll be grockin' awesome hur hurrrrrrrrr!" This is, for the moment, a research exercise ONLY, because i believe that this motor is far superior to the 3sgte, and becoming much easier to obtain as import laws become stricter and stricter. So i'd like to gather information on the feasibility of it.

I understand what you're saying, and i do agree for the most part, but that wasn't the point of the thread. (And yes.... 3sgte in a 7th gen is the dumbest idea i've heard in a long while)

Basically... what it comes down to, is that i'm coming into a very cheap 5th gen rolling chassis, pretty much..... and i want to do something stupid to it. Over the period of a year or two. I'm not talking a 3sgte swap with 3-400whp. I'm not talking building a 5sfe in the traditional sense.... I have two ideas, one of them on the beaten path and cheaper, but not as much fun, and one of them off the beaten path, maybe slightly expensive, but WAY more fun. This is the 2azfe.

Considering that motor, tranny, ecu, wiring harness, fully dressed drivetrains have been showing up for less than $3k.... i'd say this has the potential to create much more potent cars than your run of the mill 3sgte swap.

Dr Tweak
11-24-2008, 09:30 PM
Haven't seen it done and I don't know that there's anything out there for info. But I've got a feeling that it wouldn't be hard to do... and I'm here to help ;)

-Doc

Shadowlife25
11-24-2008, 10:00 PM
This is the reason i held off with explaining the WHY for the time being.... :squint:


I'm looking around and doing research, too.... so don't look at this as a thread that says "Hai guise! Ima put a Scion tC motor in my car because it'll be grockin' awesome hur hurrrrrrrrr!" This is, for the moment, a research exercise ONLY, because i believe that this motor is far superior to the 3sgte, and becoming much easier to obtain as import laws become stricter and stricter. So i'd like to gather information on the feasibility of it.

I understand what you're saying, and i do agree for the most part, but that wasn't the point of the thread. (And yes.... 3sgte in a 7th gen is the dumbest idea i've heard in a long while)

Basically... what it comes down to, is that i'm coming into a very cheap 5th gen rolling chassis, pretty much..... and i want to do something stupid to it. Over the period of a year or two. I'm not talking a 3sgte swap with 3-400whp. I'm not talking building a 5sfe in the traditional sense.... I have two ideas, one of them on the beaten path and cheaper, but not as much fun, and one of them off the beaten path, maybe slightly expensive, but WAY more fun. This is the 2azfe.

Considering that motor, tranny, ecu, wiring harness, fully dressed drivetrains have been showing up for less than $3k.... i'd say this has the potential to create much more potent cars than your run of the mill 3sgte swap.

I already told you Ben: We got this. Why'd you ruin the surprise? Fail.
Anyhow, call me nao! (If you're off work that is :hehe: )

cms-gt4
11-24-2008, 10:03 PM
I had considered this engine from the TC before I got the st205 engine for the sake of decent power but more so for the weight savings over the 3sgte.

Good luck. I hope you take notes as you get it done.

Shadowlife25
11-24-2008, 10:06 PM
You can bet your ass that we'll have it documented with idiot proof instructions and photos that anyone can follow. No "trade secrets" or magic smoke here man. We figure it all out, it goes into the knowledge base for the entire community.

Hell if it works out, I may do this to my AllTrac. Or maybe the 'Vert.

2azfe in a 5th gen vert? I know Ben likes the idea! :hehe:

METDeath
11-24-2008, 10:18 PM
The tC is 5x100

Shadowlife25
11-24-2008, 10:20 PM
The tC is 5x100

^^And?

METDeath
11-24-2008, 10:44 PM
He was asking about it?

Hiko
11-24-2008, 11:05 PM
This was talked about on mr2oc here. (http://mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=284324&highlight=2azfe)

The cliffs (because that thread also turned into 2az vs 3s) are that it at least needs one mount fabbed, and might be too big for the engine bay entirely. Somebody mentions it bolts to the stock s53, but I'm skeptical about that. And, of course, it needs a lot of wiring.

Shadowlife25
11-25-2008, 12:23 AM
He was asking about it?

Ok. :) I was confused since there was no preface :hehe:

cms-gt4
11-25-2008, 12:32 AM
I am curious of the weight savings of the 2A w/ a Turbo vs the weight of a 3sgte. In an awd situation I would use the rav 4 gearbox and maybe make my own turbo kit.

It would be lowered geared than the alltrac box which might help make up for some of the lack of power. 300whp, lowered geared and less weight sounds like a good mix to me. Plus better power band thanks to displacement.

If someone made their own manifold, I wonder if ct20b components would be a cheap solution for the turbo kit. It might help offset the cost of going with an EMS.

KoreanJoey
11-25-2008, 01:23 AM
I don't WANT to be a naysayer but the 2AZ is GARBAGE! If you've ever hit the rev cut on one. It's like speed cut. Just absolutely falls on it's face. Very, very unsettling mid corner.

PS: the reason, from what I've heard, is that the 2AZ isn't designed to hold max revs, and the rev cut is a fail safe to prevent damage...

That's enough for me not to want one.

Shadowlife25
11-25-2008, 01:28 AM
Corners? We don't need no stinking corners!

Think fast car not fast driver....

cms-gt4
11-25-2008, 01:38 AM
My 350z has a nasty rev limiter that knocks it on its face but it also has a powerband that keeps you from having to the stay in the higher rpm range.

I think with a low enough ratio and good powerband and fast spooling turbo that might not be as much of an issue.

ciento44
11-25-2008, 03:32 PM
I don't WANT to be a naysayer but the 2AZ is GARBAGE! If you've ever hit the rev cut on one. It's like speed cut. Just absolutely falls on it's face. Very, very unsettling mid corner.

PS: the reason, from what I've heard, is that the 2AZ isn't designed to hold max revs, and the rev cut is a fail safe to prevent damage...

That's enough for me not to want one.


I have experienced that in a tC.

But the plan here is to not leave this too stock, so i doubt the rev limit would be a problem, and if it still is, then i'll just shift before then. Car won't be doing corners. After doing some research on Christian Rado's World Challenge tC, this looks like a far superior engine to start with to make some stupid power. This won't be a corner-carver, i'm more doing research on building a drag car. I see Hondas running DEEP DEEP 10s, even 9s with less than 600whp. Yeah.... i might weigh a little more, but after seen the Dyno of Rado's tC putting down over 700whp with a slipping clutch, and a completely bone stock OEM head.... i'm sold. And i believe that he just has a stock block bottom end, just rods/pistons/bolts/bearings. It's still a 2.4 litre, i know that much.

But in doing some research.... it's an aluminum block, with cast iron sleeves. It holds stupid power, aftermarket is becoming cheap for it (honestly cheaper than 3sgte), and the numbers don't lie.

This is still research stage. I want to get through as much guesswork as humanly possible before i even start buying parts. This probably won't even be started/attempted until next winter.

Hiko, thanks for the link, that'll help out some. :D

MetDeath, thanks for the protip... although i should have known that, considering we can bolt on tC wheels. Hurrrrrrr :p

KoreanJoey
11-26-2008, 02:45 AM
Be very, very careful about overheating the motor. The head won't warp but it'll allow several of the bolt holes to expand and contract. So after an overheat you go to pull an exhaust manifold and find the bolts all loose. And THEN you can't get another one in there because all of the threads are torn up.

Not a big deal with exhaust bolts but if it's happened there it's probably also happened on the head bolts. We have had a Highlander with a leaking radiator that overheated go through this. New head, new short block.

vip09
11-26-2008, 03:25 AM
I could understand working with the 2AZ-FE if it comes in your car from the factory, but I would never go through the trouble to swap one into any of my cars.

However, I know the 2AZ does respond to boost quite well. It would definitely be cool to see one in a 5th gen!