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monny357
09-07-2008, 09:55 PM
I have a 94 st with a swapped 3sgte in it and I have a 5sfe tranny and keep breaking axels so I have decided to get a better tranny and better axels... I was either thinking about getting a turbo mr2 tranny and using that or using the tranny that came in my alltrac clip. I was wondering what I need and wat goes into converting the awd tranny to fwd? and what I need to do for the turbo mr2 tranny to work on a celica cuz I have herd you have to change somethings... and what should I do about the axels for either one cuz im tired of breaking them...

burnyd
09-07-2008, 11:22 PM
well search the stickies for the tranny converstion.

but if you still have everything from your st185 clip you can use it all to convert a mr2 transmission to be fwd.

usp45
09-08-2008, 06:52 AM
I think there might be some clearance Issues with the front subframe when putting an awd tranny into a fwd platform. I know the st162 and st165 have diferent subframes for clearance reasons.

Something to be weary of.

I know the 4g 3sfe gearbox (sorry don't know the code) will take quite a beating especialy with a kaaz or trd lsd installed. Always the v6 camry or mr2 option aswell.

burnyd
09-08-2008, 07:01 AM
I think there might be some clearance Issues with the front subframe when putting an awd tranny into a fwd platform. I know the st162 and st165 have diferent subframes for clearance reasons.

Something to be weary of.

I know the 4g 3sfe gearbox (sorry don't know the code) will take quite a beating especialy with a kaaz or trd lsd installed. Always the v6 camry or mr2 option aswell.


the subframe is fine.... that rear mount will work right with that transmission.

Murgatroy
09-08-2008, 07:10 AM
I think there might be some clearance Issues with the front subframe when putting an awd tranny into a fwd platform. I know the st162 and st165 have diferent subframes for clearance reasons.

Something to be weary of.

I know the 4g 3sfe gearbox (sorry don't know the code) will take quite a beating especialy with a kaaz or trd lsd installed. Always the v6 camry or mr2 option aswell.
We have members using the AWD tranny in a FWD configuration. The tranny is the same as the MR2T tranny with the addition of a rear output box.

usp45
09-08-2008, 07:16 AM
I stand corrected.

Murgatroy
09-08-2008, 07:18 AM
No shame in it, a lot of folks didn't think it could be done until it was done. But it is one way to make sure you have the perfect gear ratios for the 3SGTE.

CriScO
09-08-2008, 09:56 AM
Ooh! I have one bookmarked!

http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?p=123978#post123978

Someone posted that on 4gcelica.net a long time ago, that's the page that made me aware of this site. :)

Carolina91GT-S
09-08-2008, 11:29 AM
The AWD tranny does have a mode that makes is FWD only but the shaft collar is so weak that you are more likely to break it than your S54 axles that you keep breaking. If you do this though the alltrac axles will fit. Everyone that I have talked to to who has actually tried it has broken the collar in the transfer case.

You can convert the AWD tranny into an MR2 tranny like was mentioned. In order to do this you will need a new differential, an MR2 end plate, MR2 inner axle stubs including the long center axle for the right side, the right side carrier bearing and bracket. Also in order to persue either option you may need the all trac lower frame crossmember. I am not sure about the 6th gen but you must have it for a 5th gen.

I would also like to find a way to use the Alltrac tranny as is, there are so many of them laying around. I asked around for about 6 months and no one could tell me why it wouldn't work and actually provide a reason that made sense. I seems like the alltrac guys that make a ton of horsepower never blow out that collar so why couldn't you run stock 3SGTE power through half of the tranny? The problem is that the center differential is open so if you try to use it in AWD mode it will try to put all the power to the rear and the front wheels will not drive. You can change the locking collar to FWD mode but there is so little of the collar contacting the shaft that it becomes the weak link. There is less than an inch of contact on that collar.

Side note: You don't need to use the GT4 shifter cables like the thread says. Your stock ones, from the S53/54 tranny, will work but you have to make a spacer to hold them into the bracket. The spacer is just a large washer that fits in the bracket and you extend the hole out to one edge, so you have a U shape. It's simple and it works perfectly and really is easier than it sounds. With it in front of you it makes way more sense than it does when you read it. I wish I had taken pictures of it when I did it.

Foot note: I have wondered though if an AWD tranny in FWD mode would handle the power from a 5SFE. Kinda silly but physically it would bolt up and run with an Alltrac crossmember and a hybrid clutch.

schnee
09-08-2008, 02:30 PM
Someone once told me it could be done but you need to do some fancy welding to weld the collar to the shaft - dunno how true that is as I'm brand new to Toyotas.

You guys sound like you know your stuff.
I have two st162's one is auto and one is manual.
My s53 won't stay in 1st or 2nd unless I hold the stick (too many burnouts by the previous owner?).
What is the best (strongest) replacement?
What makes the GT4 or MR2 turbo box superior? (looks the same inside?)
I want to fit the longest ratios possible as I only use the cars for long distance cruising. The auto is my DD & this place is speedhump city.

I'm told the Camry 5SFE box has longer ratios and is stronger?
I'm told to convert a MR2TE or GT4 box, doesn't that mean splitting the box to swap the diff (and presumably secondary shaft)? I've opened one and it's not the nicest or easiest box to work on.
Also I'm told the Camry V6 box is stronger & will fit?
I can get tons of GT4 boxes ($85) & V6 boxes here in N.Z but the S53 and C52 ($600) are hard and expensive to find and most are grating or jumping (recon = $2000).

Now for the A140E, I bought a spare one on ebay for $10. When I got it home I realised it's bigger and heavier than my real A140E. It has a cover plate for the RHS driveshaft seal and there is a cover plate on top of the box and the selector faces downwards. I bolted it to a spare 3s block and it fits, the plugs and speedo drive look the same, so what is it and am I correct in guessing it's from a Camry V6? Does it have the same ratios as the A140?

Could I use this auto box to convert a GT4 box to FWD? or must I find a MR2 box?

I need to find some real answers quick as the s53 can't be re-licenced till I find a box that works.

Question - My manual states that the AT160 4age has a higher top end than a 3sfe. I have a 5th gear set from the 4age, will it fit onto the s53, s54, c52, V6 box shafts? Can any 4age box parts be used as the syncros, selectors etc are all new.

Another retard question - (I've never been in a GT4!) In 2wd mode, does it drive the front or rear? Logic says front but this pic of a Gen5 says otherwise?

Carolina91GT-S
09-08-2008, 10:38 PM
the GT4 tranny in 2WD drive(FF) mode drives the front wheels only. That picture that you show is of a seriously modified car. I seem to remember that it has a V8 and RWD.

You are asking many transmission questions that I have no direct experience with so I cannot say what the answers/solutions are. That AWD tranny conversion thread does have some gearing charts in it.

I also understand that the Camry V6 tranny will fit a 3SGTE and is very strong. But i have not done it myself. The input I provided earlier I can say for certain is true because I have done it.

90CelicaST
09-08-2008, 10:48 PM
Logic says front but this pic of a Gen5 says otherwise?That's also not your normal GTFour, that car is a GroupA edition with a Lexus V8 swap, converted to rear wheel drive only.

Murgatroy
09-08-2008, 10:55 PM
That's also not your normal GTFour, that car is a GroupA edition with a Lexus V8 swap, converted to rear wheel drive only.
Si.

There are threads out the wazoo about it.

That is Justen Simpson's twin turbo 1uzfe RWD Group A.

The switch on the AWD tranny makes the car a FWD, it is meant for towing and dyno applications for troubleshooting, not actual operation, ie, driving.

schnee
09-09-2008, 01:01 AM
Thanks for the input, thumbs down to building a cool drift car! Bummer

I see no reason to buy & strip 2 boxes to build 1, when I can buy an el-cheapo V6 box & shafts and just slap it in.

Does this also mean that with this mystery auto box (http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=10598&c=3&userid=7353) it would be possible to build an auto GT4 setup? (not that anyone would want to)

Has anyone built a drifter by bolting an Altezza 6 speed tranny (http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=10462&c=3&userid=7353) to a rotated GTE motor driving only through the GT4 rear end? Way easier than finding room for a V8

Murgatroy
09-09-2008, 01:17 AM
No one has built a RWD GT4 using an Altezza set-up to my knowledge.

However Fensport has made a GT4X, an AWD 3SGTE powered 7th Gen.

Then I think it was RS*R that built the RWD Scion tC.

schnee
09-09-2008, 01:51 AM
Rod Millen also built this Ultima GT4 Gen7 (http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=10600&catid=member&imageuser=7353) as an experiment but there was no interest in it.

85gtsblackman
09-09-2008, 08:13 AM
just use a e153 trans and be done with it, or hybrid axles or get a cv axle shop to build u stronger axles

monny357
09-09-2008, 06:21 PM
yea i think im gonna go with a mr2 tranny...so for the axels... do the different year trannies have different axels? i know depending on if i get lsd or not i need different axels but im just wondering about the years... andsince i have a 94 do i need axels from a st205 for the outter part or will st185 axels work with my car?

monny357
09-10-2008, 04:16 PM
nobody knows? im sure someone has to..

alltracman78
09-10-2008, 07:41 PM
You need 185 axles, SW20 inners [just the stubs], and a spacer between the outers and the inners.

ccsouls
09-10-2008, 07:57 PM
I used the LSD V6 Camry because the syncros were supposed to be stronger than the MR2s with MR2 inner axles and GT4 outers. Works great!

I know people have done the Alltrac AWD conversion, but I can't see any reason to go to all that trouble unless you were doing the work yourself and had the transmission parts already. For the time & materials, you could order a brand new tranny from somewhere.

Just my 2 cents.