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nyana107
09-02-2008, 06:55 AM
car sure does have alot of gadgets nissan gtr (http://www.dpccars.com/car-videos-08/09-02-08page-Nissan-GT-R-first-impressions.htm)

usp45
09-02-2008, 12:06 PM
I stoped caring about nissans when they sold out to renault.

Renissan
Fordzda
Fordvo
GMSaab
GMCbaru
Chryslerbishi (I think chrsler got out though, Mitsubishi sucks anyway)

Can't beat em? Buy em and lower em to your own crappy standards. Who's next?

BTW I know alot of those are more partnerships than full on sellouts, but still.

God I hope toyota never sells out.

Slider
09-02-2008, 03:52 PM
You missed Toybaru

hobbie2k
09-02-2008, 07:40 PM
...and Toyota's numerous partnerships with GM...

Ryan
09-02-2008, 07:54 PM
regardless that car is an artwork and is a Japanese super car. from the factory it is insanely fast. that was just the regular gt-r...not the up and coming spec-v..... which is supposed to be even more powerful and out handle the regular gt-r by a lot

usp45
09-02-2008, 09:55 PM
...and Toyota's numerous partnerships with GM...

True, cough pontiac cough vibe. But at least gm doesn't own like 50% of toyota. Co-productions don't bother me.

This got me curious so here's what I found

Gm owned 20% of subaru which toyota bought for $315 milion in 2005. So subaru is back on my good list.

Renault-Nissan Alliance As of 2000, Renault owns 44.4% of nissan and nissan owns 15% of renault. I don't know where renault begins and nissan ends. I will atest from personal nissan experiance that their quality took a crap after the alliance. There's been speculation of gm joining the alliance to form a philthy philthy love triangle.

In 2000 gm ate 100% of saab and crapped out the current abomination.

As of 2000 Ford owns volvo's car division, but not volvo trucks or marine. Since ford bought volvo. Volvo has started to lose money, cough jaguar cough landrover. There is speculation of ford selling volvo back to the swedes, Thank god.

Ford owns 33% of mazda. Not majority, but with ford, at all, is too much.

Turns out isuzu owns mitsubishi, while mitsubishi has strong management ties with chrysler (whatever that means) And Toyota owns like 5% of isuzu.

Toyota owns:
-Daihatsu (~51%)
-Fuji Heavy Industries -- Subaru (Toyota owns ~20%. Toyota bought this from GM in late 2005. )
-Isuzu (5.9%, announced 7 Nov. 2006)
-Lexus
-Scion
-Toyota
Their partnership is schedualed to end with gm, but could be renewed. There's been rumors of an alliance (please god no!!!) also speculation that they could break all ties with each other (please please let it be so)

Some more interseting ownership stuff:

Porsche owns 31% of volkswagen:
Volkswagen owns:
-Audi
-Bentley
-Bugatti
-Lamborghini
-SEAT
-Skoda
-Volkswagen

BMW owns:
-BMW
-Mini
-Rolls Royce

Hyundai owns:
-Hyundai
-Kia

I have to start checking every day, these companies are getting passed around like joints.

Ryan
09-02-2008, 10:16 PM
auto manufacturers are whores...... :wiggle:

celicaGT90_05
09-02-2008, 10:19 PM
first impression was *puke*. I'm really not a big fan of it, but I would get one for the power to price ratio.

VikingJZ
09-03-2008, 05:28 AM
The best cars GM has ever produced were rebadged Toyotas :)

lol


I'm not personally a fan of Toyota building GM cars, when we all know they want that title of number one and are rivals. Plus I just hate GM.


I like the GTR though. I don't like that its nearly impossible to tune if you want it faster. That's the fun of a car is to make it faster, and Nissan makes it harder.

celicaGT90_05
09-03-2008, 06:44 AM
what doesnt nissan make harder?

jlspec
09-03-2008, 09:38 AM
The deal with GM is for toyota to build their cars here in the states without the need to build a factory of their own. They're having their cars built at the GM factory which part of the deal is GM gets a rebandge matix. In the end the sale of the Vibe is still in Toyota favor as it's still toyota profit but it helps lift the GM name with a slight little profit. So it's not really a partnership but more of using/selling extra resources that each one has for a profit which toyota gets the best of it. The nissan deal is different as Renault has some sort of control of Nissan as it was the one that change it's image and brought the 350Z and GT-R back to life. Without Renault Nissan would been gone. I remember at one point in time Ford had a stake in Honda, or was it that they were going to buy a stake in it? In all only the Big three and toyota buys/invest in other compaines.

Ryan
09-03-2008, 04:09 PM
The best cars GM has ever produced were rebadged Toyotas :)

lol


I'm not personally a fan of Toyota building GM cars, when we all know they want that title of number one and are rivals. Plus I just hate GM.


I like the GTR though. I don't like that its nearly impossible to tune if you want it faster. That's the fun of a car is to make it faster, and Nissan makes it harder.

you can tune anything if you want to....the only thing i think i would do to the gtr is get a MINES ecu and thats it...they tested out putting an exhaust on it and that actually decreased hp...i mean im sure you could put bigger turbos on it and everything, but from the factory it is a beast...

dalegt4
09-03-2008, 04:33 PM
its all good untill one of the electrics breaks on it. lol

toyota are still a family owned company, my mate, / garage i work with/ for has met the current mr Toyoda before he started his own buisness and worked for Toyota

ciento44
09-03-2008, 04:54 PM
you can tune anything if you want to....the only thing i think i would do to the gtr is get a MINES ecu and thats it...they tested out putting an exhaust on it and that actually decreased hp...i mean im sure you could put bigger turbos on it and everything, but from the factory it is a beast...


Weaksauce dude....

EVERYTHING should go faster.

Don't let me near mom's minivan.

Ghosty
09-03-2008, 09:26 PM
I don't know how I feel about the GT-R.

Sure, it's gots dem der gadgets. But there's a TON of weight that it adds, and I think most experienced (i.e. professional) drivers could get more out of the car if they chopped off a bunch of the electronics (HOW many sensors do you need to STEER???) to shave weight and let the car corner better.

I would love to see Toyota come in here and beat Nissan's game, but with a different philosophy. Build a supercar with less electronic assist. Build it light. If you're going to add computers, use it for engine management... perhaps launch control at the most.

The most extreme supercars... Ascari A10, Koenigsegg CCX, Gumpert Apollo, Pagani Zonda... I think you will find an absence of these driver-assist type computers.

The interesting thing about the whole equation is that the computers add both expense and weight to the package. What happens when you take them both off? You get a cheaper car with less weight. If Toyota had the balls, they could beat the GT-R and have a car with a more competitive price tag. Win-Win.

GT-R = Cool? Yes.
GT-R = A driver's car? I think not.

dalegt4
09-03-2008, 11:59 PM
you are nail on the head, i will try find a video i have somewhere, shows how much the GTR is NOT a drivers car. lights all the time on the dash, all crap for fun.

hobbie2k
09-04-2008, 12:01 AM
On the other hand, most of those driver's cars without all the electronic aids would kill an inexperienced driver in a heartbeat. The GT-R is incredibly forgiving and very easy to drive fast. If may not be as fast as some other (far more expensive) cars, but it can make any driver look good, and that's a testament to just how great the GT-R is.

dalegt4
09-04-2008, 12:03 AM
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/New-gtr-r35-vs-tuned-nissan-skylines-gtrs_150540.htm

il take the R32 any day of the week if i had to have any of them, the most drivers car out the lot of them.


just read the above post, that is very true, but that is exactly why it isnt a true sportscar, true sports cars are good drivers cars in my opinion.

i know they did it to make it do great speeds, and it does just that, but just not in as fun a way as it should do

Ryan
09-04-2008, 03:10 AM
Weaksauce dude....

EVERYTHING should go faster.

Don't let me near mom's minivan.


yes....BUT... the fact that in this application(r35) some of the stuff that people would usually do to any other car to modify it, could harm performance...there are quite a few things that you can do to modify it and help, but from the factory it is well tuned for performance.. getting the ecu reflashed by MINES would help, you could rip out the engine to put bigger turbos on it, etc...

one thing i heard about this car that was pretty funny was from a guy that works at a nissan dealership(owned by the place i used to work at). he is the only one at that shop(and the only one in northern indiana) that is certified to work on the new gtr. he said that in order to change an o2 sensor on the gtr you have to pull the engine which means you have to take off the front clip.. apparently they go bad quite a lot.... :smokin:

i think if i got this car i would probably leave it stock that way i could keep the warranty because i wouldnt want to work on it.....it would be a pain in the ass to work on..

Ryan
09-04-2008, 03:18 AM
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/New-gtr-r35-vs-tuned-nissan-skylines-gtrs_150540.htm

il take the R32 any day of the week if i had to have any of them, the most drivers car out the lot of them.


just read the above post, that is very true, but that is exactly why it isnt a true sportscar, true sports cars are good drivers cars in my opinion.

i know they did it to make it do great speeds, and it does just that, but just not in as fun a way as it should do


and considering that a completely stock r35 did just as good as tuned r32,33,and 34s....thats impressive

Ghosty
09-04-2008, 04:12 AM
On the other hand, most of those driver's cars without all the electronic aids would kill an inexperienced driver in a heartbeat. The GT-R is incredibly forgiving and very easy to drive fast. If may not be as fast as some other (far more expensive) cars, but it can make any driver look good, and that's a testament to just how great the GT-R is.

Point taken.

Maybe it's a matter of personal taste -- a preference of tackling an issue one way vs another. And I can understand the attraction... I remember the TopGear video where Jeremy Clarkson thoroughly thrashed around an R34, twisting it sideways at every chance. Lot of fun, surely. And the $70,000 price tag is probably a swell deal, for the amount of power, gadgetry and exotic components.

Still, I'm of the keep-it-simple variety when it comes to these things. And I also have more respect for a person who has mastered their car, rather than software having mastered it for them.

I wouldn't ever drop $70,000 on a vehicle with so much of it invested in the electronics, when for the same money, I could buy a car without the electronics, spend the money saved on suspension and power improvements, and blow the GT-R right off the track.

Kind of like the old "money wrench" philosophy-- lot more respect for people that tune their own vehicles than have a speed shop do it for them and it cost a $$$.

Then again, maybe I'm just jealous that Nissan gets a supercar and Toyota doesn't.

polish dude
09-04-2008, 07:42 AM
Weaksauce dude....

EVERYTHING should go faster.

Don't let me near mom's minivan.

second it

dalegt4
09-04-2008, 07:58 AM
and considering that a completely stock r35 did just as good as tuned r32,33,and 34s....thats impressive


no doubht at all mate, it certainly is impressive, the nurburgring time says it all readly, its just not realy old skool enough for me, not hardcore driver enough for me, thats all, great car, just not my cup of tea like. :)