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View Full Version : 3rd gen Throttle Body on 2nd gen Intake



BlueDragon
08-25-2008, 01:48 PM
I have been trieng to figure out how to hook my intercooler piping to the throttle body, my piping is 2.5 inch (which is larger then the 2nd gen TB I have on there now). I see people with metal attachments off the TB wondering...
1. where do you get those??
2. has anyone modified a 2nd gen intake mani for 3rd gen TB, if so what all is involved?
3. Where can i get one of those metal adapters for the FMIC for a 3rd gen or 2nd gen TB which ever or both??

I have an extra manifold so I could modify without downtime. Seems like the 3rd gen would work really well being matched with the IC piping size.

celicatrd93
08-25-2008, 02:15 PM
here you go my frıend..ıs thıs what you need?

http://www.atsracing.net/ats_racing_throttle_body_inlet.htm

mıght be somewhere cheaper too

Shadowlife25
08-25-2008, 02:43 PM
You can find the same thing on e-bay for about half that price. I doubt there are any quality differences, unless ATS makes their own.

BlueDragon
08-25-2008, 05:22 PM
i think thats what i need, is there someone that makes them for 3rd gen 3sgtes?

Shadowlife25
08-25-2008, 06:20 PM
I believe it will bolt up for either application, but you could send the seller an e-mail to double check.

Trance4c
08-25-2008, 06:48 PM
I'm pretty sure you need an adapter plate, of which I believe Conrad has made one for ChrisD.

BlueDragon
08-25-2008, 11:56 PM
hmm.... does the intake manifold need to be bored out to match the larger TB?

BlueDragon
08-26-2008, 05:43 PM
still would like to hear from anyone whom has done this swap, seems like a bottleneck for sure.

Conrad_Turbo
09-02-2008, 10:55 PM
I'm pretty sure you need an adapter plate, of which I believe Conrad has made one for ChrisD.

Ya it was a definite one off item, ChrisD will be the only one to have it. :D

It's been a few years since I made it, but I believe the bolt pattern is different on the 3rd gen TB as compared to the 2nd gen intake manifold. Definately ask ChrisD for clarification though, it wasn't just a simple tapered tube that was needed.

Ricksta
09-03-2008, 02:15 AM
on that piping you have you dont need a throttle body for it man. you take off the stocker and it bolts right up to the mani.

Sang
09-03-2008, 04:34 AM
I'm pretty sure you need an adapter plate, of which I believe Conrad has made one for ChrisD.

It would be easier to weld one a gen3 TB flange than to draw up an adapter and have a one-off cut.

Even then, I would address the plenum before the TB even if the piping is going to be 2.5".

Conrad_Turbo
09-03-2008, 03:55 PM
It would be easier to weld one a gen3 TB flange than to draw up an adapter and have a one-off cut.


Yup I agree, however Chris wanted to have the option of putting the stocker back on if he wanted to. A adapter flange cannot be cut, unless it is two flanges welded together (simply due to the different bolt pattern). A CNC'd flange would be the cats ass however. The one I built Chris was about 1/2" thick and had two sets of flanges to allow the TB to bolt up and the adapter to bolt up to the manifold.

Sang
09-03-2008, 04:54 PM
A CNC'd flange would be the cats ass however.

Sorry, this is what I meant when i said "cut". But yeah...really not worth it IMHO. If you're going to do this, you might as well draw up an adapter for a gen3 intake manifold, that way you have a the bigger plenum and it's already flanged for a gen3 TB.

I was seriously thinking of going this route, but I just can't see myself giving up TVIS anytime soon :)

BlueDragon
09-09-2008, 03:59 AM
well its all hooked up with gen2 stuff... I also like TVIS so switching to a 3rd gen mani would probably not be what im looking for, if i were to go thro all that I would just buy a custom made manifold. Im just looking to push the limits of stock internals here really, then when the forged stuff goes in i might go for that... but what i was really asking is just what type of machining would be required to fit a gen 3 TB into stock gen2 TB location... looks like you gotta bore it out and i figured maybe ya could tap out new holes for the gen 3 and fill in the old ones with JB weld or some crap just so a gasket would sit flat... Thats all I was really looking for, mainly because i looked at my piping and my gen 2 TB is a bit smaller but the gen3 is almost exactly 2.5 inch... Thanks for all the info guys, I have 2 extra gen2 intakes sitting around maybe ill mess with this and see if its feasable...

Conrad_Turbo
09-09-2008, 04:10 PM
Digging from memory the hole pattern is very similar, I am not a fan of JB weld...but to reuse the OEM mounting location I'd recommend TIG welding the screw holes or JB welding them *shudder*. The hole pattern is very close that I think every Gen 3 hole will overlap with the existing Gen 2 hole.

Where is ChrisD when you need him!? :laugh:

Luni
09-09-2008, 10:48 PM
Id like to see Conrad make a TVIS spacer plate that adapts the 2nd gen head to the 3rd gen intake manifold.

Or if it was cheaper, Id like to see someone make an AFFORDABLE intake manifold.

I have a hard time believing some of these sheet metal manifolds are worth 500 and 600 dollars. I see pretty exhaust manifolds sell for half that price with more intricate and complex welds, but the intake manifolds are more cause of what? Demand?

I hate price gouging.

Sang
09-09-2008, 11:20 PM
Id like to see Conrad make a TVIS spacer plate that adapts the 2nd gen head to the 3rd gen intake manifold.

Or if it was cheaper, Id like to see someone make an AFFORDABLE intake manifold.

I have a hard time believing some of these sheet metal manifolds are worth 500 and 600 dollars. I see pretty exhaust manifolds sell for half that price with more intricate and complex welds, but the intake manifolds are more cause of what? Demand?

I hate price gouging.

What exhaust manifolds do you see for $250-300 that's of similar quality. By quality, i'm discounting ssac exhaust manifolds.

On the current market, Neukin's manifolds are probably the "cheapest" manifold that I would ever put on my engine and they go for $600+.

As far as making an adapter plate for the gen3 intake manifold. It's been done before. Only a very limited run was made and with the way you have to shift the manifold for the ports to line up, it isn't a perfect "adapter". You have to tig weld some bosses or use a decent washer for the through bolts to make full contact.

It would probably be easier to just weld on the flange onto a gen3 throttle body. Then use a tvis spacer and chamfer the port for a more even transition from small gen3 runners into larger gen2 head port.

Luni
09-09-2008, 11:53 PM
Dude, SSAC manifolds are 100 dollars.

And the SSAC manifolds fall apart cause of the extreme heat.... That isnt an issue on the INTAKE manifold.

Its still price gouging, plain and simple.

BlueDragon
09-10-2008, 03:11 AM
yes i agree very high price for these, only seem worth the cost if you look to hit some insane hp like 600-700 plus... and i guess im nowhere near the market you are because ive never even seen an exhaust mani for 600 plus (but i have a hard time finding anything period for this car most the time) Ive seen some garret turbo kits with really nice looking manifolds thats probly the best ive seen... sigh if only i lived in japan.

Conrad_Turbo
09-10-2008, 04:32 PM
The price is high due to quantity, if the 3S community was ordering 10x the volume it is now then the manifolds would be a lot cheaper. Same idea as how a group buy works, the more sales the easier/cheaper it is to build and those savings can be passed onto the customer.

Also IF there was any CFD, the costs would have to be recouped through the sales of a lower qty of manifolds, which would warrent a higher cost per unit. Provided there was actually any CFD done in the first place.

Found the photos of the adapter I built for Chris two years ago.
http://www.aceengineering.ca/Temp/IMG_1623.jpg
http://www.aceengineering.ca/Temp/IMG_1624.jpg

The bolts are loose so the adapter can be bolted to the OEM manifold. The welded on nuts allow the 3rd gen TB to bolt up.

Luni
09-10-2008, 06:34 PM
Conrad, how much do you think it would cost to cut the plenum off a gen2 manifold and weld a larger sheet metal plenum on?

What would you charge for such a thing? The plenum is the main issue with the gen2 mani, the runners are actually OK, its the plenum that kills us.

BlueDragon
09-10-2008, 11:56 PM
right right wow nice peice i wish you would make me one! haha yeah I hear gen2 have too small a plenum also... It would be really awesome if we could find an adjustable plenum mani... and as to the cost being higher for less i dont get it if the place makes other manifolds why does it matter if they weld 2 different peices for your mani its the exact same welds and labor i dont get it... but i guess thats how it works... I think ive seen a couple intakes like your talking about but i have no clue where, seems feasable.

Conrad_Turbo
09-11-2008, 04:30 PM
Conrad, how much do you think it would cost to cut the plenum off a gen2 manifold and weld a larger sheet metal plenum on?

What would you charge for such a thing? The plenum is the main issue with the gen2 mani, the runners are actually OK, its the plenum that kills us.

Depends on quantity since I would do CFD work before any fab work begins...I've done quite a few intake manifold designs for various clients and race teams but I have never actually built one (yet!). I don't do as much AL welding as I want...mostly MS or SS. The fab time would be dependant on the intake manifold design/complexity.

http://www.aceengineering.ca/Temp/2/cfd.jpg
A quick preliminary model I did for a customer to show how the the shape of the end of a plenum is imporant to flow.

BlueDragon when I made the adapter I didn't have any intention on building anymore...I should have kept my measurements. :(

BlueDragon
09-11-2008, 11:23 PM
thats ok conrad... i dont think its worth too much trouble really. I would love to see you work on a manifold tho if you ever do let me kno im in if you get around to it.
Thats a cool pic... brings up another question... why is our manifold so weird?? it tapers at the end... is that not as good as the design your showing there?

Conrad_Turbo
09-12-2008, 09:32 PM
Thats a cool pic... brings up another question... why is our manifold so weird?? it tapers at the end... is that not as good as the design your showing there?

Ya that's an example of a "bad" manifold. :laugh: Easy to build (in terms of reducing fab/welding time) but not the best for performance. If the tank was tapered near the end along with a few other things it would be a better flowing manifold...however it's tough to do that with a round tube. :D