View Full Version : Me and my 4th Gen....... Swapp Story.

08-19-2008, 09:04 AM
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/8209/theswapls0.jpg (http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=theswapls0.jpg)
Swapping A 87' GT-S 3S-GE (NA)
Into A 89' ST 3S-FE (NA)

I Had a Beautiful clean, GT-S with all the bells and whistles, Faded paint and all it was the best car i had ever driven. The twin cam really can pull in a celica, just like in my miata. (pretty much same exact motor Cept the mx-5 is FR) Unfortunatly I lost pressure in one of my front brakes, so on my way to pick up my girl, going down the canyon I locked up my front right tire. And in a flash of a second i did a 180 and hit a guardrail at about 50. needless to say thankfully im alive, and my car was in one piece. (It still Drove 15 miles after wrecking to get to my girls apartment, where i had it towed home) The Amazing part is The motor, Radiator, and front suspension made it through unscathed! So a month later i Put down 7 big ones on a Clean, Original owned, 89' celica ST. Came with the handbook, Cleanest interior i had ever seen in a fourth gen, and in the trunk were brand new reflex struts. and some other nicknacks....Now Im pretty comfortable with the twin cam motors, from fixing my miata so much That I figured aw what the hell, if this motor dies I'll just put in my 3sge... shit! the day i got it insured and legal, is the day it blew a nice little chunk outta the block... looks like it threw a valve, or something similar...
So here i am, Swapping A whole grocery list of stuff into the st. my list goes as follows:

3S-GE Motor, And Wiring Harness (complete Pull)
GT-S Springs And Swaybar
Rear disc brakes, (complete from axle carrier up), E-brake cables, & As Much of the Metal lines as i can pull!
Front disc brakes, Hubs, Shocks, Sway bar, Stab Bar
GT-S Steering wheel, FULL Works! (tilt control, ignition w. lightring,)
Seats, Shifter, Some of the Plastic from the dash, interior perks.
Gauge Cluster (240 kph type)
Rims, and such
GT-S Trim & Mudflaps
The exaust system

Other things im pulling but not installing are:
The gt-s spoiler (wont fit cause its from a hatch, and the st is a coupe)
Power locks, mirrors, and windows... (i got cranks and i like em)
most of the braking system, Clutch master & Slave, The Gt-s door and backseat Interior. (its got cool ass Cordoroy Fabric) The hatch's lift-strut (to make a propless hood) the windshield (because the st has a baseball pock on it) and im pulling as much Backup Parts as i can physicaly remove......

This is week 1,
So far On the ST, I have done The Rear disc Brakes, Rear Struts & swapped in the GT-S's Springs, Swaybar, and Mudflaps. Also Have One side of the gt-s trim and brake line protectors for tommrow. Now On The GT-S, I removed most of the dash, all the accessory switches and controls, Exposed and have begun marking, listing, and disconnecting the wiring, and harnesses both engine & interior.

I have pulled from the GT-S but i am waiting to install:
The cluster (240kph), E-brake lines (tommrow), Radiator and fans, interior trim & plastic, various bullshit...

Making headway is slow at first, but its going steady as i at least put in 1 to 2 hours a day, and most of the weekend, when School permits.

So let me tell you my fingers are sore! And I have broken two socket wrenches (and one cheap one!) Back to back!, also Cracked a 3/4 inch Socket on the axle carrier bolt, bought over $150 in new tools, rented $90 in specialty tools, and have nearly brained myself good when the socket wrench slipped of a bolt i was practically hanging on trying to break the thread. i got an awesome, split & egg outta that...

Most of the rear suspension on the st was straight rusted locked on, one of the axle carrier bolts had to be cut, as well as a strut rod bolt, Im using the number 1 suspension arms from the GT-S, because i cant seperate the axle carriers from em' on either side of the st's old suspension (i even cut one of the ends off of the bolt and the damn thing wont budge.. even with a crow-bar! I know for a fact the bolts haven't been removed since toyota torqued them on!(the factory struts were still on there, and they were 4 shades of shot the hell out!) After it was all stripped to bare chassie, in the rear suspension area. I powerwashed the under carriage, and painted the vital areas with a fresh coat of black rustproof paint. Also while under there i removed the plastic apron's and cleaned out all the built up dirt, and checked for rust... i touched up the undercoating where it had gotten chipped with 3 coats of black rustolium to prevent the almost impossible condition of rust, here in california.
After a good 4 hours of housekeeping the underbody, it was time for re-assembly! I got the (freshly re-painted) struts -w- the GT-S springs, And the suspension arms and axle carriers all together and assembled. To try to prevent stuck bolts in the future. I wire-brushed all the bolts threads, then polished them with steel wool, And gave em a good coat of white grease before putting them on.
I removed the e-brake cable from the GT-S because the e-brake cable is different on the ST, and prepared it for assembly. also before mounting the calipers i broke them down, cleaned them, inspected them, and thought about painting them.... (not today however!) Other plans and random ideas include: painting the gauge cluster white instead of the stock black border, or taking out the face of the center vent and placing an aftermarket trio in there; oil psi, battery volt, fuel pressure....except i already have 2 of those on the cluster stock, but who knows how acurate they are? other thoughts include painting the bay while the motor is out for the swap, also the time i will swap the steering wheel (from the firewall up...) hopefully before i swap i will have the front hubs already swapped so the drive shafts will mate without much fear.... im also gonna have to replace the boots on them, if not the whole CV boot.... so i got some things to do.... this one might take some time, i think! lol! hopefully the wiring wont be much of a pain in the ass, the research i've done makes it sound pretty simple but i know for a fact its way more complicated than plug n' play......
well on that note, im off to go sleep off the rest of the night, and get up early for finals! woo-hoo!
updates to be continued.....

08-19-2008, 10:02 AM
here are some pics:
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/3725/newdiscsgv3.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newdiscsgv3.jpg)
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/8518/swapdiscsnomenclatureab4.th.jpg (http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swapdiscsnomenclatureab4.jpg)
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/1677/strutsnewfo8.th.jpg (http://img213.imageshack.us/my.php?image=strutsnewfo8.jpg)
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8016/montagebrakeswapwm6.th.jpg (http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=montagebrakeswapwm6.jpg)
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5888/gtsantiswaygx1.th.jpg (http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gtsantiswaygx1.jpg)
yep yep...

08-19-2008, 12:14 PM
heres some pictures of my parts car, soon to be a stripped frame, http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/3999/cimg0336ar7.th.jpg (http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg0336ar7.jpg)
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1338/cimg0331qz5.th.jpg (http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg0331qz5.jpg)
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6025/cimg0013sp2.th.jpg (http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg0013sp2.jpg)
heres the interior im ripping the whole system, so its a mess right now...http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/4571/cimg0332pd6.th.jpg (http://img119.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg0332pd6.jpg)

Fox 21 Alpha
08-24-2008, 05:07 AM
Dude, I thought you were broke. And I for real for real need those seats, hella bad. I'll pay the shipping. I'll send you some photos of mounting for the seats and belts.

And maybe that interior carpeting will fit.......

08-25-2008, 06:37 PM
the diff. between the interior of a fourth and third gen are really in the cluster and certain parts of the dash, yet im unsure if they will bolt up... im keeping the gt-s seats cause they are primo.... so lil bro your gonna have to live with the st buckets.... hey they are clean as fuck but blue... dont you think that blue would look weird in a brown car? lol! hell i can shoot you the dash, but that would be some work! it think the glove is the same size

Fox 21 Alpha
08-25-2008, 10:09 PM
Nah, I was gonna put black seat covers on them which will eventually match up with the black exterior and carpet. And all the dash really needs is the sun shade over the gauges. Let me know how much those seats weigh roughly and the dimensions so I can call around and get some shipping quotes.

08-31-2008, 07:35 AM
Looking at this I can't wait till I get my Celica. Been a while since I've been excited about doing something with my kids. I promise you there'll be more broken sockets. Did you buy some of the lifetime warrenty ones?

Looking good on the progress :)

09-06-2008, 12:13 PM
thank you sir... yeah i got lifetime warranty on most of the tools... its kinda funny though going back like 3 times for one socket wrench that keeps on breaking... the guys at autozone keep calling me trip, cause they think i trip out and break my tools... funny except for how many times the cheap tools hold up my progress.....

10-25-2008, 11:58 AM
First off the swap is finally done... good stuff!

Successful Swaps:
Steering wheel.
Before: http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1160/b4clusterwheelep8.jpg (http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=b4clusterwheelep8.jpg)
After: http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1499/withnewclusterfz4.jpg (http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=withnewclusterfz4.jpg)http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/6341/niceinteriorcz6.jpg (http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=niceinteriorcz6.jpg)

The tilt control and column were pulled as one unit.
Ignition switch (with lighted ring around key)
Turn sigs,
Wiper control,
Speed control switches...
Tilt control & GT-S Wheel.

About the swap: Marked the relationship of all joints and connections. broke it at the steering gear link (1)-12 mm.[Used a prybar & wd-40 to remove the universal joint. Itís a biznatch to do! So take your time and try to not knick it all up. A hammer and block of wood will finish it off, hit by the u bolt..] Undid the rubber boot @ the firewall and removed all remaining hangups. Disconnected wiring harness. pulled the 5 bolts under the dash holding the column; (1)-12 mm. (4)-17 mm. and as one unit, wheel and column were removed.

All connections from the gt-s were found in the st, except the keyring light.. a plug that matched it was found. (unfortunately it kept the light on at all times, and when the brake was pressed it went out. I assumed it was a brake switch relay.
Another problem was lining up the center point of the wheel during installation, the cure was to paint a line before removal on both linkages, line the units up toe to toe and using a different color paint marker mark the best of bothÖ I had no prob with the measurements, they both lined up exact, however after installing it a click to the left, to make up for some play, it was almost perfect. A tad off though! Lol!

10-25-2008, 01:17 PM
Engine SWAP Details:

About the swap:
Ripped EVERYTHING! Off of the parts car Axles, Hubs, Rotors, Brakes, Struts too... Removed each as a unit. The motor in the ST was a breeze to rip!
Disconnected all lines (Cooling, Clutch, fuel, Emissions, vac., shift linkage, Air box and such! Undid the motor cross mounts, removed the axels, disconnected the Power steering pump, and checked all mechanical connections.
(Marked if needed, and if applicable covered/wrapped.)
Next I went inside the cab and removed all the lower plastic from the dash, pulled back the carpet, and disconnected the TCCS, its only three plugs! Disconnected the left kick fuse box. Then I pulled the TCCS harness through the firewall, and the left side fuse box plugs through as well. Wrapped emí up with some tape and tucked them into the motor and pulled the power plant.

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/2130/3sfeblownkt3.jpg (http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3sfeblownkt3.jpg)http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/1926/oldposdroppedna5.jpg (http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oldposdroppedna5.jpg)

Unfortunately I had no one to help me so I lowered it to the ground for the night.
This is the next day after my dad helped me lift it out.http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/3192/nomotorbe9.jpg (http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nomotorbe9.jpg)

The bay was cleaned as best as possible with a power washer, then I sanded and painted over any rust spots. I installed the GT-S power steering lines, with the cooling lines ran to the bumper.
Changed a messed up shift linkage cable, checked all the lines on the firewall, as well as a visual on the power-steering. installed the new fuel filter, and replaced aanything that looked shady.

Next, I dropped in the 3S-GE,
Heres its removal from the parts car (not that exciting of a story)
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/2570/liftmo2.jpg (http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=liftmo2.jpg)
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/4614/cimg0837kp2.jpg (http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg0837kp2.jpg)
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/865/upnoutly5.jpg (http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=upnoutly5.jpg)

Heres it all cleaned up ready for installation.
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/3111/3sgecleanwe4.jpg (http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3sgecleanwe4.jpg)

Heres The motor after the drop.
I installed the radiator, and left kick fusebox wiring harness. (from the gt-s). I had to remove the fender skirt, and feed the lines through. hooking up the GT-S's Left kick Fuse box as well.
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/5673/3sinst1622uy2.jpg (http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3sinst1622uy2.jpg)

The rest is the opposite of removal, remember to mark everything during the removal, so when you hook up something completely you REMOVE the flag/number

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/7162/3sinst162lh2.jpg (http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3sinst162lh2.jpg)

The ST's Back Dash wiring harness, was left in at first,
The motor started and ran with it. but the rest of the car suffered some weird gremlins
1. the alternator would not charge.
2. The hazards and turn signals would not work
3. The gauge dimmer did not fit the plug (as the cluster and front dash harness were also swapped.
4. The Radiator fan turns on even during a Cold Start
5. The ST has only one clutch position sensor
6. The engine kicked off the overflow connection on the radiator, with the oxygen sensor ( USE THE 3S-GE Radiator!)
7. The headlight connections are the same pin and similar design, but the GT-S's motors are round plugs, while the newer ST had square Plugs...

SO after two days of not figuring out the alternator problem...
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/1477/wiringnightmaretb8.jpg (http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wiringnightmaretb8.jpg)
I installed the GT-S's Rear Dash Harness.
it fixed;
The alternator problem, The turn signals/hazards, and the dimmer all worked. but the Heater blower would not plug up, it being a slide not a push button type.. so im constructing a separate heater Harness/relay.

Most of the wiring issues were trivial, but having pulled and reinstalled almost 99% of the 3s-Ge wiring intact saved a lot of trouble! this must be a rare thing being able to swap a complete wiring system!

10-25-2008, 01:48 PM
Gretchen also was hauled off... scrap metal was so down, i had a hell of a time finding someone to junk it.... had to trade the ST's seats to get this outta my drive way... i stripped it to the fullest!
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/8950/byebyehatchivh1.jpg (http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=byebyehatchivh1.jpg)

10-25-2008, 02:28 PM
First start on the tube:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66QUDKRxnzE

my fav. part of the video.... did it shoot flames? :ohyeah:

heres it on its first check run, fluid watch, and listen......

10-25-2008, 05:57 PM
Congrats. Startup on the first try is always gratifying. ;)

10-26-2008, 10:33 PM
Congrats man! Keep up the good work.

It looks like you are doing everything right...

11-15-2008, 08:01 AM
heres some of the latest fixes:
1.fixed the sports muffler, got the old-skool "shotgun" look. (already got pulled over for it being loud!)
2.fixed the hazards and turnsignals (the 87 wiring harness has the two green wires in the sig's switched around compared to the 89's hooks)
3.Modded: Changed cluster color, tried to fix gas gauge by replacing the whole unit...(all wiring from the sending unit to gauge cluster is cool!-tests have been run)
now my gas light pulses when I shift... I think I might have to check that plastic bread board for cracks or shorts....
modded: added flouresent lights to under dash (red & Blue...) more to come...

to do list...
1. fix gas gauge
2. headlight pop-up motors....
3. sand and prime rustspots....
4. hook up second cooling fan on rad, with interior switch.
5. eventually rip interior carpets, backseats, and other useless junk.

01-06-2009, 01:02 AM
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/7369/goodst162gertiexv6.th.jpg (http://img71.imageshack.us/my.php?image=goodst162gertiexv6.jpg)
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/6269/goodinteriorcb9.th.jpg (http://img377.imageshack.us/my.php?image=goodinteriorcb9.jpg)
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/3108/gooenginebuildgs0.th.jpg (http://img377.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gooenginebuildgs0.jpg)
new shtuff!

01-06-2009, 02:43 AM
Lookin' good bro. Good job.

01-25-2009, 09:25 AM
Gretch (my ST-162! Duh!) has thrown the big-end! indeed... my crankshaft bearing spun, by the looks of it, also since she had 216,000+ miles its working on a pretty old oem stuff mainly, so when i got a knock i almost knew it was coming! it was re-built according to the previous owner, but according to what i have seen... its got the same pistons & bore as it did in 1987.....guess it depends on what your definiton of "Overhaul" is huh?
Well to make a long story short, with work, school and home life, and this new economy, things are pretty tight! not the time for a 2,000 longblock reman! (from the only machine shop i trust!) Check out these links:
These guys are hella bad ass!
Well to make a long story short i located a JDM 3SGE 2nd gen longblock.... mad clean so im gonna go get that sucker on monday!! saves time, saves money.... still though, i am gonna break it down when i get it home. (as most jdm engines have spent only a few months running before being replaced! (Im Buying a 2nd gen 3s series also-BTW!) should be fun, as it does not have a egr.... yup...
but dont worry im boltin my head on it when it gets back!
2ndGEN 3SGE -170hp Stock! wooo-wwooop!

01-25-2009, 05:06 PM
2nd Gen 3SGE, very nice motor. You getting the ECU and wiring too?

01-28-2009, 10:14 PM
2nd Gen 3SGE, very nice motor. You getting the ECU and wiring too?
nah im buying the motor and a clip of the wiring.... im gonna bolt my throttle body to the intake, hook tvis up to avis and pray it fires up till i can afford a 2nd gen ecu.... or im just gonna delete tvis and use my 1st gen intake.... either way it will run i hope