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View Full Version : Heel and toe problems due to distant pedals...



balang_479
08-19-2008, 12:02 AM
I dont seem to able to heel and toe in my celica... i just cant reach the throttle pedal, its too far in compared to the brake even when i brake hard.... i was wondering if anyone else had this problem????

im gonna do some work to my throttle pedal to move it up and closer to the brake pedal...

85gtsblackman
08-19-2008, 02:37 AM
buy a 3rd gen, that maes it real easy

if you get a set of aftermarket petals, it helps

Murgatroy
08-19-2008, 03:16 AM
And here I am bitching cause I think they are to close together...

KoreanJoey
08-19-2008, 06:45 AM
They're close together side to side but far apart in height. Getting aftermarket pedals help. I even added some spacing under the accelerator and that definitely makes it much easier.

85gtsblackman
08-19-2008, 06:16 PM
i wear size 13 extra wide converse, those help too :bigthumbu

balang_479
08-19-2008, 08:23 PM
^^^ lol..

im gonna dismantle the stock pedal and bend it out further then make my own pedal face.... hopefully i can get it right!

goretro77
08-25-2008, 11:22 PM
For my '06 Elise the throttle pedal is too low in relation to the brake pedal, making it hard to heel and toe. (the reverse is true for '05s)

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/goretro77/DSC02140.jpg


I added a Razo RP61 competition Ti pedal using all spacers provided, be sure to use loctite. Works great when I wear Puma Speedcats since the pedals are spaced close, it was the height issue that prompted this little mod:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/goretro77/DSC02164.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/goretro77/DSC02162.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/goretro77/DSC02170.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/goretro77/DSC02169.jpg

Its been over a year and the pedal is as tight on the accelerator as the first day, other owners also use this mod and found no issues. Good luck.

Dan_Q
08-26-2008, 12:35 AM
i find the "depths" spot on for heel and toe- IE as my brakes bite the brake pedal is low enough to be nearly level with the throttle?

I did find fitting a pedal extension at an angle helped with the spacing issue.

balang_479
10-30-2008, 11:50 PM
I like the RAZO set, i might invest in one, plus itll match my knob :D :D, but never knew how it would mount to the pedal, how does it work? and what makes it universal?

Fox 21 Alpha
10-31-2008, 04:23 AM
And here I am bitching cause I think they are to close together...

ditto. I don't even heel to toe, more like left side of foot right side of foot....

KoreanJoey
10-31-2008, 06:15 AM
i find the "depths" spot on for heel and toe- IE as my brakes bite the brake pedal is low enough to be nearly level with the throttle?



Then flush out your brake fluid and adjust your master cylinder.

You shouldn't have that much play in your brakes.

KoreanJoey
10-31-2008, 06:15 AM
ditto. I don't even heel to toe, more like left side of foot right side of foot....

That's how it goes with Japanese cars. German cars are different because the pedals usually mount on the bottom.

RedRkt01
11-02-2008, 11:41 PM
I'll go ahead and expose my relative ignorance in this department for the sake of learning. I have yet to track a vehicle..........that is my preface. But when I'm out on the road and practicing different driving techniques and trying to develop them into a second nature, I find it difficult to see where heel/toe becomes advantageous. For the most part I devote my left foot for the brake and the clutch while my right foot is devoted to the throttle. I can't envision a scenario where I'll be disengaging the clutch with my left foot and braking with my right foot. The way I see it, my feet should always be on go or stop unless shifting and shifting is pretty much done anywhere outside of the entry of a turn and the turn itself. So what am I missing here?

KoreanJoey
11-02-2008, 11:47 PM
You're coming in at 100mph, 4th gear. The max speed at the apex of the corner is say... 40mph.

When you're coming out of the corner you'd want to be in 2nd gear. So explain how you'd get from 4th gear to 2nd gear without heel-toe downshifting, while maintaining traction.

RedRkt01
11-03-2008, 12:26 AM
So heel/toe is for gear/speed matching? I didn't think of that.........told you I'd learn something.

KoreanJoey
11-03-2008, 01:46 AM
:)

Glad to be of help.

Yeah it's to ensure that you're able to get into the right gear while you're bleeding off speed going into a corner, that way you'll have power coming out.

RedRkt01
11-03-2008, 01:45 PM
Thanks for turning on the light!

Slider
11-03-2008, 04:59 PM
Then flush out your brake fluid and adjust your master cylinder.

You shouldn't have that much play in your brakes.

True, with a recent flush and all brakes in good condition my brake pedal grabs pretty high.

usp45
11-07-2008, 01:17 PM
I can practicly work the clutch brake and gas with just one of my giant feet.

Trance4c
11-07-2008, 02:29 PM
You're coming in at 100mph, 4th gear. The max speed at the apex of the corner is say... 40mph.

When you're coming out of the corner you'd want to be in 2nd gear. So explain how you'd get from 4th gear to 2nd gear without heel-toe downshifting, while maintaining traction.

Remove foot from gas pedal

Place foot on clutch, depress

Move car to neutral

Use other foot now off gas pedal onto brake pedal, slowly depress.

Move stick to 2nd, remain clutch pedal in

Finish braking to slowest point (should be at apex)

Move foot back to gas

Apply gas, slip clutch to retain traction

Remove foot from clutch

Apply full throttle.



No? hehe :bigthumbu


I'm not all about the fansysmachy driving, I'd rather just drive personally. I'm not a professional, infact.. I dunno any professionals, an I'm not competing.. so.. ya.

RedRkt01
11-07-2008, 02:51 PM
I think KJ's point was that at such a high speed you can't get into a lower gear without keeping the rpms up. So with your feet on the brake and clutch and your rpms falling towards idle how are you going to go from 4th to 2nd? You're not going to get in gear............

Trance4c
11-07-2008, 03:10 PM
I think KJ's point was that at such a high speed you can't get into a lower gear without keeping the rpms up. So with your feet on the brake and clutch and your rpms falling towards idle how are you going to go from 4th to 2nd? You're not going to get in gear............


meh.. I dunno.

I get what the point is.

Though, people should practice rev matching way before they try doing heel toe.

KoreanJoey
11-07-2008, 03:16 PM
Though, people should practice rev matching way before they try doing heel toe.

100% true.

ciento44
11-07-2008, 03:24 PM
I think KJ's point was that at such a high speed you can't get into a lower gear without keeping the rpms up. So with your feet on the brake and clutch and your rpms falling towards idle how are you going to go from 4th to 2nd? You're not going to get in gear............

Is this what's supposed to happen?

I can move my shifter from 5th to 1st at 35 mph with the clutch pedal depressed and the revs at idle...

RedRkt01
11-07-2008, 03:37 PM
Is this what's supposed to happen?

I can move my shifter from 5th to 1st at 35 mph with the clutch pedal depressed and the revs at idle...

What happens the moment you engage the clutch?

If my rpms aren't matched the syncros wont let me engage the gear.

ciento44
11-07-2008, 03:44 PM
What happens the moment you engage the clutch?

If my rpms aren't matched the syncros wont let me engage the gear.


I'm not about to dump my clutch in first gear at 35mph....

I can get the car in gear, but i'm not quite dumb enough to try to let out the clutch like that.

It'll let me put the stick in 2nd at pretty much any speed i'd care to try, without rev matching.

I'm just wondering if this is normal, because i can flat shift any car i've ever driven, i don't have to rev match upshifts or downshifts if i don't want to. I do match downshifts.... but you would think if synchros are preventing you from engaging the gear... what do drag racers do?

Slider
11-07-2008, 03:59 PM
What happens the moment you engage the clutch?

If my rpms aren't matched the syncros wont let me engage the gear.

Are you talking about double clutching? If you need to do that to downshift into a lower gear then your synchros are most likely on the way out, except 1st on some cars since some transmissions don't have a synchro on the 1st gear. When you push the clutch in and engage a lower gear your synchros spin up the lower gear so you can put it in that gear, if it can't go in or grinds then you most likely have bad synchros. By putting the car in neutral, engaging the clutch and rev matching and then disengaging the clutch and putting it into gear you're basically doing the work of the synchros.

Rev matching without double clutching has no effect on getting the gear engaged. Once you have the clutch disengaged when you rev match you're just spinning the flywheel and the engine at a faster speed, it's not doing anything with the transmission at this point. Well of course unless you have something wrong with your clutch and it's not disengaging all the way.

Rev matching is there so you have a smooth downshift. You match the engine speed to the transmission speed so then when you let the clutch out it will be smooth and you don't look like a noob.

Slider
11-07-2008, 04:03 PM
I'm just wondering if this is normal, because i can flat shift any car i've ever driven, i don't have to rev match upshifts or downshifts if i don't want to. I do match downshifts.... but you would think if synchros are preventing you from engaging the gear... what do drag racers do?

Yes it's normal, a transmission with synchros will allow you to do that.

ciento44
11-07-2008, 04:11 PM
Yes it's normal, a transmission with synchros will allow you to do that.


That's what i thought..... he was starting to freak me out a little. :hehe:

I'm not real sure that my first gear thing is normal... but i never downshift into it, so i don't really care. :)

Fox 21 Alpha
11-07-2008, 04:20 PM
Finish braking to slowest point (should be at apex) -Not necessarily.......

What happens the moment you engage the clutch?

If my rpms aren't matched the syncros wont let me engage the gear -Mine will engage if I get it in gear with the clutch in, doesn't mean that I'll still be on the road after its all done.....

Slider
11-07-2008, 04:26 PM
That's what i thought..... he was starting to freak me out a little. :hehe:

I'm not real sure that my first gear thing is normal... but i never downshift into it, so i don't really care. :)

I noticed my Celica seems to get into first easier then other cars that I have driven, never tried it at 35mph though :laugh:

Some cars have a 1st gear lockout like VWs. It won't allow you to shift into 1st unless you're pretty much at a stop. It's to prevent idiots from downshifting into 1st at high speeds and blowing their engine/crashing

ciento44
11-07-2008, 04:48 PM
I noticed my Celica seems to get into first easier then other cars that I have driven, never tried it at 35mph though :laugh:

Some cars have a 1st gear lockout like VWs. It won't allow you to shift into 1st unless you're pretty much at a stop. It's to prevent idiots from downshifting into 1st at high speeds and blowing their engine/crashing


Yeah... my old coupe wouldn't go in first at anything faster than 15mph unless i rev matched...

This one just doesn't care... It's strange.

RedRkt01
11-07-2008, 05:10 PM
Are you talking about double clutching? If you need to do that to downshift into a lower gear then your synchros are most likely on the way out, except 1st on some cars since some transmissions don't have a synchro on the 1st gear. When you push the clutch in and engage a lower gear your synchros spin up the lower gear so you can put it in that gear, if it can't go in or grinds then you most likely have bad synchros. By putting the car in neutral, engaging the clutch and rev matching and then disengaging the clutch and putting it into gear you're basically doing the work of the synchros.

Rev matching without double clutching has no effect on getting the gear engaged. Once you have the clutch disengaged when you rev match you're just spinning the flywheel and the engine at a faster speed, it's not doing anything with the transmission at this point. Well of course unless you have something wrong with your clutch and it's not disengaging all the way.

Rev matching is there so you have a smooth downshift. You match the engine speed to the transmission speed so then when you let the clutch out it will be smooth and you don't look like a noob.

Yeah........I meant to edit my post to more clearly illustrate my point, but my boss walked in and talked to me for 45 mins. lol. Some of my gears are on the way out.....so yes that may be the source of my problem. And on rev matching....I was trying to say that if you down shift like that you have to rev match...so you don't look like a noob as reference above.

Sorry about that fellas. I came back to my comp and was in the middle of editing that post and decided to refresh only to see 100 responses. ha!...I don't know much.....but I at least knew that. As for my tranny....it'll come out as soon as Doc sends me my harness.....then its no prob being it's a mint E56.

KoreanJoey
11-08-2008, 05:40 AM
Ok, the big thing about heel-toe downshifting isn't to make the shift, it's to make the shift smooth. Any big jolt to the drivetrain while in a corner (or entering a corner) will take you off the line that you're aiming for.

You don't want that (obviously).
Plus engine braking is nice to have coming down rapidly from high speed.

You really don't need to heel-toe just driving around, I do out of habit but it's really more necessary when you're really pushing the car.

Trance4c
11-08-2008, 04:09 PM
I noticed my Celica seems to get into first easier then other cars that I have driven...

Ya, I've noticed that too! I think its just due to the design of the time. I dunno. I find that a lot of other cars do lock you out until at least under 15mph for 1st gear. Though, just about every Toyota of the 90's, S53, S54, E153, etc I can get into just about any gear I want any time. Which.. is nice really.


Ok, the big thing about heel-toe downshifting isn't to make the shift, it's to make the shift smooth. Any big jolt to the drivetrain while in a corner (or entering a corner) will take you off the line that you're aiming for.

You don't want that (obviously).
Plus engine braking is nice to have coming down rapidly from high speed.

You really don't need to heel-toe just driving around, I do out of habit but it's really more necessary when you're really pushing the car.

Exactly, its to be as smooth as possible! I really only posted what I did just to be a dolt lol. I can't heel toe, if I practiced I bet I could.. but I can't lol. I also don't try attempting on public streets, its just not the place to do that. BUT, your right.. that is the point, an a good driver will be very good at keeping drivetrain shock down and will use a lot of engine braking.

KoreanJoey
11-09-2008, 01:14 AM
Exactly, its to be as smooth as possible! I really only posted what I did just to be a dolt lol. I can't heel toe, if I practiced I bet I could.. but I can't lol. I also don't try attempting on public streets, its just not the place to do that. BUT, your right.. that is the point, an a good driver will be very good at keeping drivetrain shock down and will use a lot of engine braking.

A big part of it is the stock pedal placement sucks for heel-toe. Do as what was shown in the last page with an aftermarket pedal cover for the throttle. The throttle just sits too low in comparison to the brake in order for it to work well.

BUT, once it's all nicely set up it's easy enough to do.

RedRkt01
11-10-2008, 07:17 PM
Besides, the Razo's are there any good suggestions for aftermarket pedals that work well with our cars?

KoreanJoey
11-14-2008, 04:10 AM
*shrug*

I run Razo's...

92VertGT
11-14-2008, 06:18 AM
Yea I just bought the razo competition ti set too, they look real nice

RedRkt01
11-14-2008, 02:33 PM
Yea I just bought the razo competition ti set too, they look real nice

I appreciate the input. Pics, fellas?

k.beaty
12-01-2008, 04:00 AM
bump for pics