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View Full Version : Talk to me about 2nd and 3rd Gen 3SGEs...



Murgatroy
08-14-2008, 11:04 AM
I notice we have little info on here about these engine.

I know Joey has a 3rd Gen 3SGE.

I know several of our members from across the pond have them too.

I am leaning towards an unorthodox manner of swap, Ciento knows what I am talking about.

However, I would like to know more about the 3SGE. I am not so much interested in the BEAMS, as that is way out of my budget.

Are these engine MAP based or do they require an AFM?

To those of you that have them, what mods have you done, and how responsive was the engine to them?

What is the drivability? Where is the torque curve at? Where is the powerband?

Joey, what about maintenance? Where do you get your gaskets? Oil Filters?

What kind of aftermarket is there for these engines, and how do we get those parts here in the States?

I am leaning toward this swap as it is more rare. The 3SGTE is so common. I am not in any manner downing that swap, I just want something different.

That and I plan to supercharge the engine in the future. Most likely with a centrifugal type supercharger. However, that is a bit farther off.

METDeath
08-14-2008, 11:46 AM
Now, this is something I'd be interested in as well, I was thinking about doing an NA buildup on one, possibly even an automatic one *gasp*. Or just saving up and putting one in the hatch I'm looking for.

UndaGrwnD
08-14-2008, 11:47 AM
I got a 2nd 3SGE Engine, i only got a powerfilter on it and een light weight flywheel from Fidanza.

The flywheel still needs to be installed on the engine, that would be when i come back from my vacation.
i will post here the results.

about the 2nd 3SGE power, i think its quite a fast engine, maintenance is important, but all with all i love the engine.

RedRkt01
08-14-2008, 02:34 PM
Are these engine MAP based or do they require an AFM?

To those of you that have them, what mods have you done, and how responsive was the engine to them?

What is the drivability? Where is the torque curve at? Where is the powerband?

Joey, what about maintenance? Where do you get your gaskets? Oil Filters?

What kind of aftermarket is there for these engines, and how do we get those parts here in the States?

The 3rd Gen is MAP based. Like you, Murgy, I didn't want to go BEAMs after I did some thinking on the matter. And after doing some research I found that the 3rd Gen has a lot of aftermarket options. Right now I have HKS springs that are ready to go in. I am waiting for my cams to ship as we speak. I am about to order an HKS header from Japan. When it is all here I'll be removing the head for a port/polish job and then installing the aforementioned parts. I forgot to mention valves......those are getting replaced as well. Generally, parts for the head are as easy to find as any other G head......I've had no problems in that department.

Maintenance is a non-issue, I think. This is true because after you complete the swap you can never rely on someone else to do work for you if you want it done right. What you need is another ride (which you have covered) and space/time to fix your broken down 3SGE. If you have access to part numbers you're going to be ok......this is not hard to come by if you network with other 3rd Geners.

Responsiveness? Drivability? Torque Curce? Powerband?.........I'll have to get back to you on those. In the meantime I'm sure someone else will fill in the holes I left.............

KoreanJoey
08-15-2008, 05:10 AM
I notice we have little info on here about these engine.

I know Joey has a 3rd Gen 3SGE.

I know several of our members from across the pond have them too.

I am leaning towards an unorthodox manner of swap, Ciento knows what I am talking about.

However, I would like to know more about the 3SGE. I am not so much interested in the BEAMS, as that is way out of my budget.

Are these engine MAP based or do they require an AFM?

To those of you that have them, what mods have you done, and how responsive was the engine to them?

What is the drivability? Where is the torque curve at? Where is the powerband?

Joey, what about maintenance? Where do you get your gaskets? Oil Filters?

What kind of aftermarket is there for these engines, and how do we get those parts here in the States?

I am leaning toward this swap as it is more rare. The 3SGTE is so common. I am not in any manner downing that swap, I just want something different.

That and I plan to supercharge the engine in the future. Most likely with a centrifugal type supercharger. However, that is a bit farther off.

Well let's see...

MAP,

Intake and Exhaust, came with an HKS 4-2 pipe and had a custom 2-1 and 2.5" exhaust installed and of course I didn't have an airbox for the motor so I just installed a short ram. I don't know what gains came from it because I have no dynos from before the mods.

For drivability, it's not bad... but not great either. Powerband is somewhat steep even though the torque remains fairly flat throughout.
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/3/6/5/DynoRun81907.bmp

Maintenance... well... that's not REALLY a problem. Financially, yes, but literally, no. It'll be mostly OEM parts that become an issue. Valve cover gaskets, idler pulleys and the like are hard to come by without going to an importer. If you've got the part numbers you will be fine. Problem with this for me is just I'm not usually one to pay list price for anything Toyota, I get most of my stuff either through work or through TMS, neither of which is able to produce any parts from these numbers. Email from TMS as an example.

90311-35022 - Camshaft Seal 11213-88460 - Valve Cover Gasket not available 15165-88382 - Oil Pump Seal 90311-42026 - Crankshaft Seal 15188-88382 - Oil Pump O-Ring 13568-79105 - Timing Belt 13505-88480 - Idler Pulley Assembly 1 not available 13503-63011 - Idler Pulley Assembly 2 13540-88480 - Tensioner Assembly - Chain Not available 90919-21580 - Ignition Coil Set Not available 90311-89002 - Rear Main Seal 12204-88460 - PCV Valve Not available 16100-79225 - Water Pump Assembly Not available

As to aftermarket parts, Fensport in the UK will ship anything anywhere. Also Paradise Racing is getting involved with 3SGE stuff.

KoreanJoey
08-15-2008, 05:13 AM
Oh, an S54 trans and it's shorter gear is definitely better for this motor.

RedRkt01
08-15-2008, 01:56 PM
Joey, I'm surprised that you don't make more power. I have talked to a lot of Aussie guys who run 3rd Gens and have seen their graphs. Converted from kws they make upwards of 165-170 hp. Not the advertised 180, but still a bit more than what you show. I'm curious to know which ECU you run..........a guy from the Toymods.net forum puts a lot of stock in which ECU you run on these engines....

ciento44
08-15-2008, 02:30 PM
^You mean like the Miatas where people will try 5-10 different ecus and see a variance of sometimes up to 10hp?

RedRkt01
08-15-2008, 07:13 PM
^You mean like the Miatas where people will try 5-10 different ecus and see a variance of sometimes up to 10hp?

Um, no..........not like miatas. I'm not sure what your question is implying.

ciento44
08-15-2008, 08:43 PM
Um, no..........not like miatas. I'm not sure what your question is implying.


I"m just trying to figure out what you're talking about.

Miata guys will try a bunch of factory ecus, because they all run slightly differently, and pick the one that makes the most power.

Was just wondering if the 3rd gen was the same way.

Murgatroy
08-15-2008, 11:10 PM
I was under the impression that the 2nd Gen 3SGE shared a lot in common with teh 1rst Gen 3SGE.

Is there no commonality beyond the shortblock with the USDM 2nd Gen 3SGE?

As far as work goes, I have always done my own work, I am not in the habit of taking my car to a shop.

I do believe a 2nd Gen 3SGE will be most probable, as it is cheaper. However, if a 3rd Gen pops up for the right price, it would of course be acceptable.

For the time being the engine would be mostly stock, the expected parts will make their way on during the swap, SRI, cone filter, straight pipe exhaust. There will be no emissions components, correct?

What about fuel grade? Will it have to have High Test? This is what my Buick requires, so that wouldn't be too horrid.

As far as the tranny goes, would it be compatible with my stock S53? Of course upgrading to an S54 would be ideal, but regardless, would I have to change starter mounting points like 1rst Gen 3SGE?

Žusty
08-16-2008, 12:23 AM
KJ's
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/3/6/5/DynoRun81907.bmp
Rusty's
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q315/Sword_Master22/Celica07.jpg
106.68kW @ wheels = 143.1HP
now have I added this up right...
155.01kW @ flywheel = 207.87 BHP
using... http://www.onlineconversion.com/power.htm

that 3S-GE Sticky (http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33098) thread, I found is quite helpful.


also I know my celica doesn't have an LSD but what gearbox does it have????ST202 1996 Celica SSII

Murgatroy
08-16-2008, 12:49 AM
also I know my celica doesn't have an LSD but what gearbox does it have????ST202 1996 Celica SSII
S54.

Žusty
08-16-2008, 05:31 AM
yeah thourght so :)

CriScO
08-16-2008, 08:00 AM
As far as the tranny goes, would it be compatible with my stock S53? Of course upgrading to an S54 would be ideal, but regardless, would I have to change starter mounting points like 1rst Gen 3SGE?
I can't say for sure Murg, but I think it is a very safe bet that the starter mounts the same for all gen GE's, or at the least different than Mudhoney's. Remember, our cute little 3S-FE's were the only ones to get the bastardized version of the S53. :hehe:

85gtsblackman
08-16-2008, 01:23 PM
murg dont u have an s52? oh and u have been pm'ed

RedRkt01
08-16-2008, 03:36 PM
I"m just trying to figure out what you're talking about.

Miata guys will try a bunch of factory ecus, because they all run slightly differently, and pick the one that makes the most power.

Was just wondering if the 3rd gen was the same way.

It is my understanding that 3rd Gens had pre and post facelift ECUs. 3SGEs out of 94 and 95 ST202s had a slightly higher output due to the lack of EGR provisions. After the facelift those models exported to Europe and Australia/NZ had EGRs fitted to them. So, in short, the 3rd Gen 3SGE is not loaded with a bunch of different ECUs as Miatas apparently are. They just have a couple of options much like GTEs do; US or JDM, SW20 or ST chassis, so on and so forth.

As far as the tranny goes, all 3rd gens come with an S54. Some S54s are LSD and some are not. I have still failed to nail down just what determines if a model gets LSD or not.......one day I'll figure it out.

One reason you should try to get a 3rd Gen as opposed to a second is the replacement of TVIS with ACIS. There is plenty of reading one can do to figure out what that is all about.

Yeah the 2nd Gen is cheaper, but with the 3rd you get ACIS, a better and more advanced MAP based ECU, an S54, the possibility of LSD, more power to start with, a redesigned head, oil squiters in the bottom end, a baffled pan............none of this will you get with the 2nd Gen. By going 2nd Gen one would be doing themselves a serious disservice. It's not like when people choose a 2nd Gen GTE for lack of money, availablility, aftermaket support, or cause they are scared of the 3rd and 4th gen GTEs. None of those issues present themselves in this choice of engine. To me it is a no-brainer......but that is me and to each his own.

RedRkt01
08-16-2008, 03:50 PM
I forgot to mentioned how important the baffled pan was on this engine. On 1st and 2nd Gen 3SGEs there is no baffle in the oil pan. When a driver is road racing or perhaps just driving spiritedly oil will slosh from one side of the pan to the other. When this happens the sump can suck in air as opposed to oil. As a result, the air will try to work its way out of the system, but commonly gets trapped in the third cylinder. Aside from the lack of lubrication where the air is trapped, the #3 cylinder will now have hot spots which will burn away oil if oil makes contact. It turns into a vicious cycle. #3 cylinder wear and in extreme cases melted piston rings are well documented in 3SG blocks, turbo or not. Toyota and TRD both know about it as do serious race teams and a handful of other poor souls such as ourselves that have found out the hard way.

Žusty
08-17-2008, 06:27 AM
As far as the tranny goes, all 3rd gens come with an S54. Some S54s are LSD and some are not. I have still failed to nail down just what determines if a model gets LSD or not.......one day I'll figure it out.


easy SS-III with super strut suspension had the LSD, but SS-II can fit a TRD one(cant replace the SS-III beams LSD)

RedRkt01
08-17-2008, 05:11 PM
easy SS-III with super strut suspension had the LSD, but SS-II can fit a TRD one(cant replace the SS-III beams LSD)


Nice! Thanks for the info.

KoreanJoey
08-18-2008, 04:52 AM
The graph is from a chassis dyno (IE: Rolling road for people of or from the British Empire).

180HP at the crank converts to around 155hp to the wheel.

No modifier added for trans power loss. Although... 153*1.15=175.95HP

So close.

And yes, I would take a 3rd gen or 4th gen over a 2nd.

And NO, parts are not readily interchangeable between the generations. Or even from 3SGTE to 3SGE.

As for LSDs, TRD only offers a clutch type LSD.
However, you can get an LSD from an OEM MR2 Spyder. This diff fits in both the S53 and S54 transmissions (if you look at TRD Japans parts list you'll see it's the same part number for all 3 transmissions). The LSD also has a shorter final drive (I believe somewhere in the range of 4.7) so it'll keep you in the powerband after shifts. Although you'll be screaming at around 4K at 70MPH.

Luis C
08-18-2008, 07:13 AM
One reason you should try to get a 3rd Gen as opposed to a second is the replacement of TVIS with ACIS. There is plenty of reading one can do to figure out what that is all about.

Wrong... 2nd gen where never equipped with T-VIS, only the 1st gen was TVIS equipped, 2nd gen and up are/where ACIS.

Žusty
08-18-2008, 07:27 AM
The graph is from a chassis dyno (IE: Rolling road for people of or from the British Empire).

180HP at the crank converts to around 155hp to the wheel.

No modifier added for trans power loss. Although... 153*1.15=175.95HP

thats odd because I worked out again, to be 178.5HP @ the fly (1KW=1.34HP).

also (I might have asked this before) how do I adjust the ACIS, because I lose alot of power in the middle, there is a screw next to a slider I guess you'd call it, what does that adjust?

RedRkt01
08-18-2008, 01:18 PM
And NO, parts are not readily interchangeable between the generations. Or even from 3SGTE to 3SGE.

I'm curious to know who claimed parts were interchangable. was that in this thread or in some side discussion I don't know about?

ciento44
08-18-2008, 04:14 PM
The graph is from a chassis dyno (IE: Rolling road for people of or from the British Empire).

180HP at the crank converts to around 155hp to the wheel.

No modifier added for trans power loss. Although... 153*1.15=175.95HP

So close.

And yes, I would take a 3rd gen or 4th gen over a 2nd.

And NO, parts are not readily interchangeable between the generations. Or even from 3SGTE to 3SGE.

As for LSDs, TRD only offers a clutch type LSD.
However, you can get an LSD from an OEM MR2 Spyder. This diff fits in both the S53 and S54 transmissions (if you look at TRD Japans parts list you'll see it's the same part number for all 3 transmissions). The LSD also has a shorter final drive (I believe somewhere in the range of 4.7) so it'll keep you in the powerband after shifts. Although you'll be screaming at around 4K at 70MPH.

^Whoa.... what's the code on that tranny?

That's like.... Civic Type R short. And awesome.

RedRkt01
08-18-2008, 04:40 PM
^Whoa.... what's the code on that tranny?

S54

ciento44
08-18-2008, 05:17 PM
^S54 isn't THAT much shorter than an S53 to be revving at 4k rpms at 70mph.

Unless i misread it.

Did he mean that the ones with LSD for whatever reason just have that much of a shorter final drive?

So basically, we're saying it's not like the S54 that we got in the states?

RedRkt01
08-18-2008, 05:21 PM
^S54 isn't THAT much shorter than an S53 to be revving at 4k rpms at 70mph.

Unless i misread it.

Did he mean that the ones with LSD for whatever reason just have that much of a shorter final drive?

So basically, we're saying it's not like the S54 that we got in the states?


I think so, but I'd ask KJ directly. I can't really imagine only going 70 and pulling 4k........that just seems outrageous.

ciento44
08-18-2008, 05:24 PM
I think so, but I'd ask KJ directly. I can't really imagine only going 70 and pulling 4k........that just seems outrageous.


Sounds too honda-like. :lolhittin

That tranny would be SICK on a sprayed 3sge... i think i just got all wet thinking about it.

RedRkt01
08-18-2008, 05:36 PM
Sounds too honda-like. :lolhittin

That tranny would be SICK on a sprayed 3sge... i think i just got all wet thinking about it.

Yeah, just wait till I get mine going with all the head work that is going into it......I get all wet thinking about that. It's gonna be sick....but I worry now about my LSD S54 and the rpms I'll be running. I might want to change the cam set up I have planned.

ciento44
08-18-2008, 05:41 PM
Yeah, just wait till I get mine going with all the head work that is going into it......I get all wet thinking about that. It's gonna be sick....but I worry now about my LSD S54 and the rpms I'll be running. I might want to change the cam set up I have planned.


Nah dude.... it'll be fine. What cam setup are you looking at?

Running at 4k rpms on the highway really doesn't put any load on the engine. It just may be louder, and not amazing on gas. But who really cares?

Shorter gears on an n/a car is faster, and you'll get to shift more. Isn't that the point of a manual tranny? :)

RedRkt01
08-18-2008, 05:57 PM
I just ordered hi-lift HKS units: 272° intake and 264° exhaust. This is a midrange power setup, so if my final drive is going to keep me in midrange maybe I want to go ahead and switch to the 272° exhaust cam and shift to the right a little bit.

I don't plan on abusing engine.........and the car it sits in is my baby, my life. So i want it to last. 4k @ 70 is not ideal IMO. As for shifting.....I agree that that is why we drive manuals, but..........that is to be done on the backroads of Missouri where I live, not on the highway when I'm on the way to work everyday. Plus, I don't have any particular interest in giving up gas mileage.

ciento44
08-18-2008, 06:06 PM
I just ordered hi-lift HKS units: 272° intake and 264° exhaust. This is a midrange power setup, so if my final drive is going to keep me in midrange maybe I want to go ahead and switch to the 272° exhaust cam and shift to the right a little bit.

I don't plan on abusing engine.........and the car it sits in is my baby, my life. So i want it to last. 4k @ 70 is not ideal IMO. As for shifting.....I agree that that is why we drive manuals, but..........that is to be done on the backroads of Missouri where I live, not on the highway when I'm on the way to work everyday. Plus, I don't have any particular interest in giving up gas mileage.

Then you need a longer tranny. There's no other way around it.

I'll trade you my S53. 3k rpms @ 70mph. You can keep the LSD.

RedRkt01
08-18-2008, 06:15 PM
I have an S53 also..........I'll have to make this decision when the engine goes in. But since I've driven the S53 and considering I've never driven an S54, or an LSD for that matter, I think I'll throw in the S54 just to see how I like it. I think I owe myself the experience.

Although I do appreciate the offer. Thanks. Maybe some sort of deal could be in the works somewhere down the road. Perhaps I'll find that the S54 is to short for me? Only time will tell.

METDeath
08-18-2008, 08:58 PM
Just convert to an S54/E153 mutt tranny (first two gears out of an S54, last three out of an E153). From my toying around with the Excel sheet that has all the different trannies that fit our car, that would be a semi ideal sporty, yet economical cruiser.

KoreanJoey
08-19-2008, 07:35 AM
Sorry I lied... Final drive is 4.31. Still nice and short comparatively. And I guess RPM would be around 3400 @ 70.

The trans would be the S54 with the final drive/LSD out of an MR2 Spyder.


This is what happens when I try by memory.

Oh, the final drive on the 2K+ Celica GTS is 4.53, that's probably what I was thinking about.

RedRkt01
08-19-2008, 01:13 PM
Sorry I lied... Final drive is 4.31. Still nice and short comparatively. And I guess RPM would be around 3400 @ 70.

The trans would be the S54 with the final drive/LSD out of an MR2 Spyder.


This is what happens when I try by memory.

Oh, the final drive on the 2K+ Celica GTS is 4.53, that's probably what I was thinking about.
That makes me feel a bit better. :)

KoreanJoey
08-19-2008, 03:22 PM
Why?

tekstep01
08-19-2008, 03:25 PM
My 3S-GE has a ST tranny from a 3S-FE, whats the trans code for that? im assuming the tranny originally came from a Close year of manufacture as the gt-s, 1987 or so,
however whoever dropped it in had to modify the clutch line as it is run along towards the battery stand base.
MY 3S-GE is a Mystery i have little info on whats done to it, it came in a gt-s i bought for $1,800
The 3sge i have has (guesstimate) 52,000 since a new shortblock,(had the warranty in the glovebox & install date) must be mostly highway miles though! (love LA!)
I saw the cams when i did the water-pump, and they were not stock, as for any other mods to the motor i honestly cant say, the org. owner def. cared for it, And knew what he was doing, but i bought it third party from a guy who didnt know shiz about the car, and didnt even have it long enough to register it in his name... (A Bitch @ the dmv)
Its a really great motor, and the butt dyno says it whoops the pants off my miata (almost the same motor though,DOHC 1.6L 16v 116+@6,500 FR)
It eats gas though and i have to get it smogged by paying off the armenians to put another car on the machine, I really cant figure out why it never passes smog.... i tried replacing the CAT.conv, and a few other things..... but it turned out to be cheaper to smog it crooked, rather than buy a bunch of stuff for a motor thats not broke! never smokes, never runs weird, sometimes the T-VIS sticks and it surges a grand @ an idle.
I also had an illegal straight pipe that came with it, just take off the muffler bolt it on.. that was cool, and i dont know if just because it sounded like a s.c.c.a. car, it seemed to have alot more pickup and tourqe right from the line. i love the 3sge, and when i finish this swap, I will def. post a youtube of it smokin tires through 1st. to 3rd. Of course by then i will have made a new straight pipe, so you can hear it too....
Third gen 3sge's if setup the right way are def. worth the effort

RedRkt01
08-19-2008, 03:28 PM
Why?
While still not that great, a lower rpm at hwy speeds makes be a little happier. I guess it doesn't really matter anyway. I have both the LSD S54 and an old S53, so I'll try out the S54. If I don't like it I'll go with the S53. Trial and error. Live and Learn.

tekstep01
08-19-2008, 03:31 PM
Hey red, you got almost the same car as me, Hatch or coupe?
better be a hatch! ~sigh ! i miss my hatchi!

RedRkt01
08-19-2008, 03:37 PM
Hey red, you got almost the same car as me, Hatch or coupe?
better be a hatch! ~sigh ! i miss my hatchi!

Hatch x2 baby!!! Love my hatchs.

KoreanJoey
08-20-2008, 04:58 AM
While still not that great, a lower rpm at hwy speeds makes be a little happier. I guess it doesn't really matter anyway. I have both the LSD S54 and an old S53, so I'll try out the S54. If I don't like it I'll go with the S53. Trial and error. Live and Learn.

Use an E153 if you'd like longer gears. Plus, it's a stronger trans.

KoreanJoey
08-20-2008, 04:59 AM
My 3S-GE has a ST tranny from a 3S-FE, whats the trans code for that? im assuming the tranny originally came from a Close year of manufacture as the gt-s, 1987 or so,
however whoever dropped it in had to modify the clutch line as it is run along towards the battery stand base.
MY 3S-GE is a Mystery i have little info on whats done to it, it came in a gt-s i bought for $1,800
The 3sge i have has (guesstimate) 52,000 since a new shortblock,(had the warranty in the glovebox & install date) must be mostly highway miles though! (love LA!)
I saw the cams when i did the water-pump, and they were not stock, as for any other mods to the motor i honestly cant say, the org. owner def. cared for it, And knew what he was doing, but i bought it third party from a guy who didnt know shiz about the car, and didnt even have it long enough to register it in his name... (A Bitch @ the dmv)
Its a really great motor, and the butt dyno says it whoops the pants off my miata (almost the same motor though,DOHC 1.6L 16v 116+@6,500 FR)
It eats gas though and i have to get it smogged by paying off the armenians to put another car on the machine, I really cant figure out why it never passes smog.... i tried replacing the CAT.conv, and a few other things..... but it turned out to be cheaper to smog it crooked, rather than buy a bunch of stuff for a motor thats not broke! never smokes, never runs weird, sometimes the T-VIS sticks and it surges a grand @ an idle.
I also had an illegal straight pipe that came with it, just take off the muffler bolt it on.. that was cool, and i dont know if just because it sounded like a s.c.c.a. car, it seemed to have alot more pickup and tourqe right from the line. i love the 3sge, and when i finish this swap, I will def. post a youtube of it smokin tires through 1st. to 3rd. Of course by then i will have made a new straight pipe, so you can hear it too....
Third gen 3sge's if setup the right way are def. worth the effort

For the love of god, paragraphs make reading your gibberish better...

Head hurts looking at that pile of rant.

RedRkt01
08-20-2008, 05:12 AM
For the love of god, paragraphs make reading your gibberish better...

Head hurts looking at that pile of rant.
lol..................I love when people respond with an opening such as "For the love of God.............." Gets me everytime.

KoreanJoey
08-22-2008, 07:48 AM
Yes, well it's what I said out loud.

Dan_Q
08-27-2008, 04:58 AM
Just a bit of info, theres a couple of things in this thread that aren't strictly true- Gen2 GE does have ACIS not TVIS, and also runs a MAP not a MAF. GTE's differ in this way but GE's don't, which is probably where the confusion came from.

I had my gen2 dyno'd at 130,000 miles and it put out 159 at the fly. Mods are just a short ram and an exhaust (silenced).

As for drivability I cannot comment on the gen3, but the gen2 likes to be revved thats for sure. I believe this is moreso the case with the gen3, but as I say I can't comment as I've never driven one. Not entirely sure but I think I have an S53 box, and to keep the engine in ACIS with the gen2 you have to rev it to near the limiter in second before shifting to third, otherwise you'll bog.

I personally say if you can afford it go with the gen3 from the start, but thats just my opinion. The only advantage not to is that a 5th gen did come with a gen2 in other countries, so parts are obtainable but you'd probably have to import them.

As for reliability mine has 148,000 (probably not much compared to milages covered in the USA) on the clock and it still feels strong when I take it sprinting at the weekend.

HTH

tekstep01
01-30-2009, 09:53 AM
UPDATE:
1st. gen 3sge VS. 2nd Gen
i have both of them right in front of me... differences are listed:
2nd gen, was BOUGHT FROM TOYSPORT, is JDM, the long block i bought came with : intake, head, block, partial wiring harness, and a few goodies APROXX COST: 595after taxes (picked up at toysport)
(NEEDED to complete SWAP: ECU?, Flywheelbolts, wiring harness? a lot of cleaning supplies!)
electrical:
1stG.
fuel injectors and other plugs have a weird metal clip to hold them on.
2ndG.
new plugs, knock sensor, updated sender units (oil pressure, Water temp, MAF, Intake Temp.) New Distributor design, new spark plug wires, updated ecu.
new wiring shield, and wire harness routing.
Mechanical:
2ndG
Intake redesigned With new throttlebody (intake is in front of the engine) with electronic vac devices, valve covers are now unified (better oil flow?) Oil filter gets a cooling device for the oil, bigger water outlets, new injectors, new crank (GTE type) NEW drive pully (2X4RIB BELTS) New pistons (GTE type) No TVIS, Replaced with AVIS......

(problems found while updating from first gen to second...)
Flywheel bolts bigger,
Throttle body doesn't fit from first gen onto second.
second gen 3sge uses a 4-1 (or 3s-5S FE Headers due to oil filter being taller....

second gen JDM 3sge also is a bitch to find parts for IE:flywheel bolts, valve cover gasket, plugwires, ecu......ect!
but she sure looks nice