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Simonhla
07-17-2008, 07:53 AM
Ok, can i first pre-empt anyone about to tell me to do a 3sgte swap by simply saying.....please don't.

I have just rebuilt the 5sfe with a friend (in an attempt to learn about engines, he is a mechanic), essentially giving me a new motor at little cost. The transmission is also new/rebuilt.

I am looking for a fun little project to get on with while the car is garaged over the winter and I thought I might attempt a basic turbo set up.

Now I should make clear that I am not trying to generate much power here and I am looking to do it on very tight budget. I am merely looking to generate some more pep, have some fun and learn some more. In a couple of years when I am more confident in cars I am going to buy a proper big engined muscles car and restore it. For now though the Celica is my baby.

I am thinking of running a very low boost i.e. in the 4-8psi range to avoid needing an intercooler. So this is my first question......how much HP approx can I expect to add with a psi boost in that range and can the 5sfe handle it? I have read a few threads that indicate it can. My understanding of the most basic set up I can do would be as follows:

CT26 turbo.
Oil pan from 3sgte +hoses and lines etc
Exhaust manifold from 3sgte
upgraded camry metal head gasket
Some sort of stand alone management system.

Is this all I would need to do a small boost set up? Have I horribly simplified it? I know I need guages in the cockpit but what's the minimum i can get away with? and the least obtrusive? I really want to make as few interior mods as possible....for it to be a total sleeper (not that it will kick much when awakened anyway haha, but you get my point)

With such a small boost level I am assuming I would not need to upgrade injectors and the transmission would be fine, especially as it is new. The tranny is......wait for it...an automatic (arrghh...i know, curse me now) but surely it wouldn't have an issue with 4-8 psi would it?

Any advice and feedback would be fabulous. I know there are some 5sfe turbo experts here! How much would a set up like this set me back if I got everything used?

Maleek
07-17-2008, 08:22 AM
http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98&highlight=5sfte

theres a decent write up found in the tech archives about the 5sfte.

1psi=aprox 10hp. so between 4-8psi u can expect between 40-80hp gain. Somebody correct me if im wrong.

Simonhla
07-17-2008, 09:10 AM
Yeah thanks Maleek. I already read that one. I have a feeling that as good as that write up is, it is a little generic in the sense that I am not sure I need an intercooler etc. I am hoping some of the 5sfte experts on here can give me some project specific advice. I'm not well versed enough to be able to pick through this stuff and decipher what I can get away with and waht I can get away without......catch my drift? Even at 4 or 5 psi, if you are right and it equals 40-50hp....that is a considerable gain on a 130hp car. Really about as much as I am looking for. I don't need more than that. This is to remain a daily driver and I want to reasonably reliable.

Maleek
07-17-2008, 04:17 PM
From what i understand, you can up to 10psi, without an intercooler. Personally i'd rather snap a cheap ebay one, to be on the safe side anyway. Also forgot to mention, that those injecters are too small. I think the best ones are probably the rx-7 ones . Do a search of somethin along the lines of 'rx-7 injecters 5sfte' and you'll find tones of into.

T-spoon
07-17-2008, 04:26 PM
I think your approach to it sounds exactly like a million other newer celica owners before you who have posted pretty much the same thing and will probably have similar results. Turboing a 5s is not a fun little learning project. While some have had success doing it, it wasn't on a very very tight budget or done casually.

If you approach it wondering what's the least you can get away with, you'll end up without your daily driver. Also starting off your post telling people what advice you want is off-putting. If the answer is that a 3s will be more reliable at your power goals than your unknown rebuild with a ct26 slapped on it and no intercooler, then you can't just say you don't want to hear it. If you want to see a turbo 5s in good order and see the kind of money and effort that went into it check out Pressure2's setup. He's got posts allllll through the forums.

Also, none of this post is meant to put you down, it just sounds like you don't really want to be turning the car into a project but that's what the turbo would do to it

burnyd
07-17-2008, 05:07 PM
[QUOTE=Simonhla



CT26 turbo.
Oil pan from 3sgte +hoses and lines etc
Exhaust manifold from 3sgte
upgraded camry metal head gasket
Some sort of stand alone management system.[/QUOTE]

If you need an of these parts I have the following..


3sgte exhaust mani and oil pan......

Ghosty
07-18-2008, 05:07 AM
An intercooler should not be considered as optional.

"Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell. Read it.

Simonhla
07-18-2008, 09:04 AM
I think your approach to it sounds exactly like a million other newer celica owners before you who have posted pretty much the same thing and will probably have similar results. Turboing a 5s is not a fun little learning project. While some have had success doing it, it wasn't on a very very tight budget or done casually.

If you approach it wondering what's the least you can get away with, you'll end up without your daily driver. Also starting off your post telling people what advice you want is off-putting. If the answer is that a 3s will be more reliable at your power goals than your unknown rebuild with a ct26 slapped on it and no intercooler, then you can't just say you don't want to hear it. If you want to see a turbo 5s in good order and see the kind of money and effort that went into it check out Pressure2's setup. He's got posts allllll through the forums.

Also, none of this post is meant to put you down, it just sounds like you don't really want to be turning the car into a project but that's what the turbo would do to it


I do appreciate your advice and I have not taken it badly at all. I appreciate any contribution. I undertsnad what you mean when you say that i discourage people if I automatically rule them not to recommend something in particular but seeing as it is not an option for me....i just didn't want to hear it again (for the umpteenth time) but point taken.

Ok so.........yes you have probably heard this before but is it, in your opinion, a bad idea or a bad project to embark upon?

When I say i want to see what i can get away with/without I do mean that within the realms of common sense. I am not looking for a cheap gypsy set up. I am looking for something practical and durable. I felt i explained that, but maybe i came across poorly.

Budgetary concerns are always going to be an issue. The economic downturn has hit me quite badly and my plans to buy a new car have been shelved. Therefore I am consoling myself by thinking that i wouldn't mind pepping up my rebuilt 5sfe. If i can set aside aorund a grand for a very modest set up, i am curious if that can be done....looking through some of the threads I have to believe it can if i buy decent quality yet used parts.....again thoughts and advice are always welcome.

With regards to the intercooler then my understanding was that it was absolutely not necessary for such a low boost. If in the future i decided to up the power then i would add one but this car really on needs and extra 30 or 40 hp for me right now. If though those that know more than me think it would be a bad idea to run any set up regardless of power without an intercooler than I will defer to those that know best. That's why i come here......

Also still interested to hear what people think about a 4-8psi boost on a 5sfe w/auto trans.....get expensive to replace trans too and again i thought this boost level would be low enough for the auto trans to handle.....advice again always welcome.

Is a $1000 budget realistic for a small turbo set up (used parts) doing what I have described and a reliable set up (assume most/all labor done myself or by a friend) or am i cutting it too fine? I think $1200-$1500 would be my absolute limit. After that rather save for a new car.

Lets bear in mind that a full clip ($2000-$2500?) for a 3sgte plus the labour to put it in and do all the wiring, and plus a new trans (and labour) is going to run a total cost in the region of ($4000 to $5000?) right? And that is for a used motor. I managed to totally rebuild the 5sfe and the trans for $2k and now is essentially brand new. Can't argue with that....

Ghosty
07-19-2008, 04:39 AM
I know you want to turbo it, but have you thought about going N/A?

You won't get as much power overall (less bang for the buck), especially for an FE head. But maybe you can satisfy your urge to tinker by going high compression (many methods to do so), and some aggressive cams, some headwork?

You could even look into converting it into E85, which is essentially dirt-cheap race fuel. I don't remember the figures, but I think you can gain around 15 percent power and torque. But you will need some modifications to the fuel system, as the A/F ratio is different.

G.W
07-21-2008, 05:29 AM
For 1k it could be done but it won't be reliable and it would be more function than form. But if it the hp is what you are after then I would go with NOS for under $700.

G.W
07-21-2008, 06:46 AM
Yeah thanks Maleek. I already read that one. I have a feeling that as good as that write up is, it is a little generic in the sense that I am not sure I need an intercooler etc. I am hoping some of the 5sfte experts on here can give me some project specific advice.

Just glancing over the post in that link told me that, that is exactly what you need to know in order to turbo your motor or you need to be very specific on your own project and its needs


I'm not well versed enough to be able to pick through this stuff and decipher what I can get away with and waht I can get away without......catch my drift?

That is a recipe for disaster. study up and understand the challenge set in front of you. Ask your self what does a turbo do. Ill give you a hint its the same thing that NOS and a super charger do.


This is to remain a daily driver and I want to reasonably reliable.
For 1k I don't think you are going to get reliable power

No disrespect

But just reading this make me think that you need to do more research.

Luni
07-22-2008, 12:19 AM
Its a bad idea to turbo a 5S on a budget dude.

You can swap to a 3SGTE yourself for 1500-2000 dollars.

Save your money and do it right. The 5S is cool, but even look at Manny. Pressure2. hes spent ALOT of money on his setup. Hes spent more money on his engine/setup than alot of people swapping and barely has more ponies to show for it. To him its worth it. He KNEW he was getting into some expensive custom stuff, and being anal about doing it right he spent ALOT of money and time on custom fab stuff. But most people who do a 5SFTE get some time and fun out of it and then something happens and it blows up.

And I am trying to deter you from it. Absolutely.

Shadowlife25
07-22-2008, 12:29 AM
Slightly off topic, but Ghosty;
E85 is not a "cheaper" race fuel. It is a corn derivative alternative fuel. Unfortunately, it costs more to produce than the fuels we already have available and you get less mpg. If you really want to boost your power potential then take care of the basics and look into water/methanol injection. This will allow you to effectively run higher compression with a more aggressive timing curve. This applies to both FI and NA applications.

Just my .02

Luni
07-22-2008, 01:41 AM
It costs more to make, but right now its cheaper than premium, not to mention you can run MAD boost with it.

And on paper you get less MPG, but when you factor in how much more timing advance you can run and how much of the fuel you actually burn it can end up being sixes.

Im gonna have a tune on my PowerFC for E85 just cause its crazy high octane and cheaper than race gas and even premium right now. I dont care how many corns and lbs of coal had to die for my bad habbit :p

Ghosty
07-22-2008, 01:49 AM
I know it seems like we are steering off topic with talk about NA and E85... but that's my kind of turbo advice for a 5S... being as I think it's a bad idea... lol