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View Full Version : '91 GT-S vs. '68 Dart... Poor Kid!



H8PVMNT
07-15-2008, 06:10 AM
Our neighbor kid is about 21 and has a really strait and original '68 Dart. It's no big deal with the slant 6, but he is always sitting at our fire pit when we roast marshmallows with the kids telling us how he layed a patch for a half a block or owned some souped up car on the "drag" in Great Falls. He also constantly flapps about what an amazing driver he is and that he is always "drifting" all the time. :bowdown:

A couple weeks ago we had a rally cross event at our local fairgrounds. Naturally he had to be there in the superdart... We ran everybody twice and averaged the scores. He wheeled a 1:18 on his first run, the slowest time. The next slowest was a 1:12 and most people had about 1:08 or less. Half of the guys were in pickups! Best time was under 60 seconds. He spent most of his run "drifting" around a 180 degree turn around a barrel, spinning and dusting out the few spectators.
Before his second run he mysteriously lost his gas cap and had to scratch. :)

About a week later we were taking the kids to see a movie in town and happened to catch him at a stop light on the drag... I figured he needed an ego boost after his crappy rallycross experience so I offered to race him to the next light, kids, wife groceries, diaper bag and all. Surely he could beat a loaded down 5SFE Celica with his superdart! I even tried to flub the start to make sure he would wax.

I shut it down halfway down the block around 35 mph, which is the speed limit there and by that time I was over 3 car lengths ahead of the poor guy. He wouldn't say much at the next stoplight. He just turned red and muttered some excuse about me having fuel injection.

Since then he's kind of lost it. He went and bought a rusty 318 block from some farmers barn yard scap pile last week. Yesterday he took his air filter off entirely and this afternoon he painted his wheels gold...

At least the 318 has potential, I guess. Now if we can just teach him to drive!

Murgatroy
07-15-2008, 06:15 AM
The 318 doesn't have potential. If he is gonna stay with a smallblock Mopar engine, he needs to at least get a 360. A 440 would be ideal as the 426 HEMI is getting too hard to find.

But yeah, a 318 doesn't have a lot of potential. It is kinda like a Honda, you can make it fast, but is it really worth what you are gonna spend on it?

H8PVMNT
07-15-2008, 06:27 AM
So do you think I should tell him he should get a 360 or just let him rebuild and swap in the 318 and beat him again?

CriScO
07-15-2008, 07:09 AM
The 318 doesn't have potential. If he is gonna stay with a smallblock Mopar engine, he needs to at least get a 360. A 440 would be ideal as the 426 HEMI is getting too hard to find.

But yeah, a 318 doesn't have a lot of potential. It is kinda like a Honda, you can make it fast, but is it really worth what you are gonna spend on it?
What's with you guys reminding me of things that have happened lately?

There's this kid in town that drives an old beat up Dodge pickup. At one point he'd swapped the 318 for a 360. He actually said to me one day, "I'm gonna find another 318. I can get more power out of it than this 360. It's a better motor."

That's one of the few that have left me speechless. I don't know American cars too well, and to be honest carburetors confuse the hell out of me. But even I understand why that 360 is a better motor. You could want to go back for the fuel economy, or the reduced weight, even if those differences are practically negligible they are there. But you cannot claim that it has a higher power output. That just defies physics. Here's a guy who has devoted a lot of his time to Dodge engines saying the exact opposite. That'd be like me saying, "I keep my 3S-FE's because I can make them faster than a 3S-GTE." :slap:

Now here's the kicker - He swapped it back!

Murgatroy
07-15-2008, 07:17 AM
So do you think I should tell him he should get a 360 or just let him rebuild and swap in the 318 and beat him again?
Tell him to call Summit, or go to their website, www.summitracing.com. Once he contacts them, tell him to order a catalog. Then tell him to read it cover to cover, till he has every part memorized, all the tech tips rote for rote.

Then, maybe then he will be ready to start on his journey to asking the proper questions.

The 318 is not junk, exactly. It just isn't the motor you want to start with for a decent build up. Back in the day, the 318 was the plain jane engine. If the car came stock with an 8 cylinder, it was a 318. If you wanted a performance car, without a big block fuel appetite, you got a 340 or 360. The 340 and 360 share almost all the same parts, they just have a different bore and stroke. The 318 is the red headed step child. It doesn't use many of the same parts and didn't have a lot of aftermarket support.

I don't have massive experience with Mopar small blocks, as any Mopar I have owned (with the exception of one Diplomat with a 318) was a big block car.

If he looks hard enough, he can find a 383 or 440 big block for a fair price, Mopar shoved them in anything with enough room for the hood to shut. If he wants power, that is a cheaper and easier route.

Till you fill up.

Every day.

And twice on Saturday.

Socrates, my `67 New Yorker (440) gets 11MPG. If I am gentle.

JEDI
07-16-2008, 03:09 AM
One of my first cars was a 68 Dart. It had a slant 6 and I put a 360 in it and it flew. But it takes alot of work to do this. I had to find the right k member for it and change out everything. This was 16 years ago and it was hard to find the k member then. Also the stock rear end will not hold up. for this I had to swap in an 8 3/4" rear end I found in an old wrecked demon that was set up as a drag car. Tell him he has alot of work ahead of him for a gutless 318 swap. And good luck! lol

celicaGT90_05
07-16-2008, 05:01 AM
The 318 doesn't have potential. If he is gonna stay with a smallblock Mopar engine, he needs to at least get a 360. A 440 would be ideal as the 426 HEMI is getting too hard to find.

But yeah, a 318 doesn't have a lot of potential. It is kinda like a Honda, you can make it fast, but is it really worth what you are gonna spend on it?

well, its just like any car, it depends on what motor you go with, some honda motors have a lot of potential

Rix86
07-16-2008, 07:04 AM
The 318 doesn't have potential. If he is gonna stay with a smallblock Mopar engine, he needs to at least get a 360. A 440 would be ideal as the 426 HEMI is getting too hard to find.

But yeah, a 318 doesn't have a lot of potential. It is kinda like a Honda, you can make it fast, but is it really worth what you are gonna spend on it?
yes the 318 isn't as good.
BUT
Mild 318's can put 200-250 to the wheels (depending on what's in them) in a manual trans car, with well over 300 lb-ft from 2200 (give or take of course) clear to the top end.
340 (4 bolt if possible) is the engine to have (for small blocks, IMO) but 360's are easier and cheaper to come by, and have a large enough cylinder to take large valve heads, and can make serious street power.
big block darts don't handle without MASSIVE suspension work.
And a small block dart is pretty light.
Like.... 2600-2800 lbs depending on options and add-ons.
Slant 6 engines made around 100-130 HP, excepting some of the weird-o hi-po 6 versions :lolhittin and most o them have been due for a rebuild for about 20 years :laugh:
some rusty old hunk o shit 318 that's been in someones yard for 20 years.... not so good.
a nice fresh 318 with valves, springs, cam, pistons, all the basic shit (that're still way cheaper than toyota parts :wtf: ) will cook along quite nicely.
for the money, I'd rather MODIFY a dart than a celica of most vintages.

juggernaut
07-16-2008, 08:49 PM
ive worked on both these engines before, and honestly, i believe the 318 is a better motor. you can get 350 horsepower out of it without much trouble, and it will be reliable. a 360 making that power will not be as reliable. sure, the 360 has more potential because it has more cubes, but it just wont take the beating a 318 will. a friend of mine had a 94 dodge ram lifted 5-6" with 35" super swampers, a 5 speed, and factory rear end gears. the motor had a cam and exhaust, and that truck would burn those tires with ease. 2nd gear donuts in a truck that big was interesting to say the least.. all im saying is dont go shitting on the 318 till you research what theyre capable of.

CollapsedNut
07-17-2008, 03:34 AM
EVERY motor has potential. I dont care if its a 3 cylinder out of a massey tractor, the most economic geo motor every built or a huge big block. There is no motor that cant be modified to make power. Some are just easier to do

VikingJZ
07-17-2008, 03:47 AM
The 318 is Chrysler's equivalent of the GM 305. Yes, its a V8, sounds nice, and can make decent numbers for someone wanting to purposely build THAT engine, but its soooooo much easier to just source a 340+ engine. I would prefer the 340 or the 440, but like Murg said, the HEMI is just too hard to find for cheap.

Actually a friend of mine's parents owned the regional Argo ATV sales place and they are HUGE Mopar nuts (ten Mopar's, including an all original Cuda AAR, save for the extra set of Torque Thrusts they have on the car for show, but the steelie mags are still in the barn) have like three or four 440's that run sitting in a part of their shop. They also have two HEMI's sitting. I could snag one, and we talked about putting a 426 in my first gen, but its a lot of work...lol.

hemlocke
07-17-2008, 03:54 AM
'68s are sweet, light, and have LOADS of potential, provided they start with the 8 3/4 rear. 318 has some potential, especially with the stroker options, but 360 smoggers are cheap, and a $500 4-in. stroker crank in a 360 with a decent set of heads (Mid-80s swirl ports, Eddies, etc.), and you will leave him at lights, and he will forget about you half a second after that.