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View Full Version : Another “Questions about the 3sgte swap” thread for a 5th gen 5sfe



Rhalin
07-01-2008, 12:52 AM
Heyyas,

A few months back my 5th gen Celica ceased to run, the timing belt being the prime suspect. I've since gotten another car for my daily driver, which frees the Celica up as a 'project'. My current DD just isn't nearly as fun to drive as the Celica was, and I'd like to get that back. I've been weighing my options to try fixing it up a bit and the topic of engine replacement came up - it needs to be resealed and have other work done, so as long as it's out, why not? And if I do that, I may as well consider the 3s-gte swap.

Here's the details on what I have:

Model: Celica GT
Year: Model year 1990, manufactured late 1989
Engine: 5SFE
Manual Transmission
172k miles
Location: Southeast Missouri (Cape Girardeau)
Budget: $2000-$3500

What I know:
Very little. I've done some basic repairs on various vehicles (replaced alternator, fuel filter, distributer caps, spark plugs, etc), and I understand the basics of how car engines generally work. I've got a few friends who have much more knowledge/experience willing to donate a lot of free time to help though. One of my main reasons for wanting to do this is to learn more about the car.

I've currently covered reading these threads:
http://celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81 (Thinking about swapping? READ THIS FIRST)
http://www.toyotacelicaonline.com/celica1/3sgteswap.htm (3SGTE Swap)
http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14518 ([punch's] 3sgte swap pics)
http://celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31278&page=1&pp=25&highlight=3sgte+swap ([Murgatroy] The time has come for a 3sgte)
http://www.gtfour.ca/howtoswap.html (How to swap an ST185 engine into your ST165, different situation but was a good read anyways)
Skimmed http://celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13876 (3sGTE Engine Reseal)


It looks like there may have been a Swap FAQ I, and Swap FAQ II at some point, but there were no links and it didn't show up in a search of the forum..

My impressions (correct me if I'm wrong):
For the most part, it seems like this is bolt-on, keeping the 5sfe transmission. There's a bit of electrical rewiring or extending to do. I'm trying to do the balance act of price vs. time spent as well.

Questions:
I understand it's better to get the front clip, but how much of a pain is it to get a crate 3sgte, as far as tracking down all the odds and ends? Does it end up being cheaper with the clip?

Which generation 3sgte would be the easiest to work with (if it makes a difference), and also, is there a drastic difference in price?

As far as actually purchasing the parts, does anyone have any good experience ordering online, and if so, where? Buying local may not be an option for me, I'm rather in a hole here in Cape.

If the engine has been tested, compression checked, mileage confirmed, etc, is it better to leave it as it is when you get it, or is it still a good idea to do things like minor rebuilding and a reseal?

Any further recommended reading? Manuals? Is there a good thread I've missed with a nice detailed 5th gen swap?

Any time estimates, even a little vague of how long this might take 2 or 3 people to accomplish?

Is this the right sub-forum to be asking these questions?

And finally, I'd really like to keep my car and have a valuable learning experience, but is it more worthwhile to buy one that’s already been swapped?

Thanks in advance,

-Rhalin

andy
07-04-2008, 05:14 PM
Ive swapped mine, heres what i did

bought a clip from Jarco -google them-
excellent service, clip in great shape and my engine has been running good for past 2 years ive had it. +++++++1 for jarco

got clip pulled engine out along with various brackets and elec components. theres alot of stuff you will need that wont come with a crate motor. afm, ign, ecu, coil, resistor pack, various connectors, the engine mounts etc.

pulled out my engine cleaned engine bay, tranny, etc. ordered a clutch from southbend clutch. they made me a 3sgte to s153 clutch. (new engine to stock tranny) put all that together throw in car. takes about 7 wires to wire up everything else just plugs in. throw stock top mount intercooler on. crank engine. then i put in a front mount setup i got on ebay. 3 inch ebay downpipe.

you need a 2nd gen 3sgte clip to make it the easiest one from 90 or 91. sell the 4wd tranny and buy a clutch with it.

its a pretty easy swap. im sure you can do it.

Just make sure to buy from a reputable online dealer like jarco or something similar.

Rhalin
07-04-2008, 07:06 PM
Ive swapped mine, heres what i did

bought a clip from Jarco -google them-
excellent service, clip in great shape and my engine has been running good for past 2 years ive had it. +++++++1 for jarco

got clip pulled engine out along with various brackets and elec components. theres alot of stuff you will need that wont come with a crate motor. afm, ign, ecu, coil, resistor pack, various connectors, the engine mounts etc.

pulled out my engine cleaned engine bay, tranny, etc. ordered a clutch from southbend clutch. they made me a 3sgte to s153 clutch. (new engine to stock tranny) put all that together throw in car. takes about 7 wires to wire up everything else just plugs in. throw stock top mount intercooler on. crank engine. then i put in a front mount setup i got on ebay. 3 inch ebay downpipe.

you need a 2nd gen 3sgte clip to make it the easiest one from 90 or 91. sell the 4wd tranny and buy a clutch with it.

its a pretty easy swap. im sure you can do it.

Just make sure to buy from a reputable online dealer like jarco or something similar.

Thanks for the reply! Yeah, Jarco was the first place I emailed for prices given they're recommended all over the forum. Concequently, their also the only place that hasn't replied yet, but I hear it takes awhile, and I'm not in any rush.

I've been reading around that clips are harder and harder to come by lately as well, which has me a bit worried. I've found a lot of suppliers for crates, but front clips are either no longer provided, or "coming soon". How much was yours?

I've found a couple MR2 rearclips, are they still worth a buy, or not much better than the crate? I should also mention that most of the crates I've found have been engine, ecu, wireing harness, transmission, intercooler, and turbo. This might help a bit, but from what you listed, may still be missing quite a few parts as well...

Thanks again, short on time, I'll probably have a couple more questions when I get back! Definitely getting excited about this built though!

--Rhalin

91 Celica GT-S
07-05-2008, 10:02 AM
i got a response from jarco about a week ago they have no st185s but they did have an st205 front clip which they took apart for you "like if they were doing the swap themselves" it looked a lot more complete then any engine set ive seen but it kinda defeats the purpose of getting a clip.
i still havent found any company selling an st185 front clip (reputable company) there are a few st205 clips on ebay right now but kinda pricey. one company only accepts wire transfer for payment so i wouldent really trust them.
let me now if you find something

Rhalin
07-06-2008, 01:35 AM
Yeah, I've been spending quite a bit of my free time searching. Found a few engines, but no clips thus far. My location doesn't help any, since it seems like most of these places are either in Canada or California. I'm in the "largest city between Memphis and St. Louis" with a population 35,000, if that gives you any idea of what I've got to work with locally. If it's not a mustang or camero, good luck finding parts out here...

I've found a couple listings selling an entire all-trac, but the cost is a bit more than I'll have to spend (even without all the rebuilding and replacing that would probably have to be done).

It will be at least until September before I get all the funds I put in my budget, so I have some time to keep looking. By then, I may be able to source most of the misc. stuff to just go with a crate, the only issue is that I don't know what most of those parts are in order to look for them, and may not know until I actually get an engine.

The unfortunate reality may just end up being that a front-clip is no longer an option, seeing as I have yet to find one, but I'll keep looking. I'll try to get together a list of the places I've looked at that -dont- have them, so maybe we won't be doing all the work twice.

Off the top of my head, I've tried Soko (http://www.soko.com/) who have replied to me and only have the engine, ATK (http://atkvege.com/) didn't have clips in their catalog, and I'm awaiting a reply to my email, Rising Sun (http://www.risingsunengines.com/), is the same deal. The site for Jemco listed in the "read this" swap thread no longer exists.

And that covers the list given in the thread to check out. Outside those places, I'm not sure whats reputable and what isn't. I found this place (http://www.jrautoparts.com/clip_toyota_gt4.htm) that wants to preorder, but I don't know if thats really a good idea (gotta love how an engine they don't have in stock has passed a compression test, as well as how their toyota clips are listed under 'nissan' at the top of the page).

This place (http://www.nippon-motors.com/toyota.htm) has the standard price on the engine, and the list of "what generally comes with" in it from the FAQ isn't half bad, except that they cut the wiring harness...

I've come across quite a few classifieds from 2005-06 selling them, but nothing very recently. As the time draws near, I'll probably put out some "looking for" requests on a few forums and see if anything shows up.

Anyone have any other clip-finding suggestions?

Thanks,

-J Lothian

Carolina91GT-S
07-06-2008, 04:38 AM
I got an engine set from jdmaddiction which came complete including MAF, TPS, harness, ECU, Igniter, Coil, etc...everything except for the fuel injector resistor pack but I made one for $10 and it works greatand the stock air filter box...I just added a short ram for now. You don't need a clip if your importer knows what you will need. If you are going to use your S53 transmission then you won't need the crossmember. The only other thing you would need is a hood.

Rhalin
07-06-2008, 07:03 AM
Yeah, the prices are little higher than some of the others I've seen, but if it comes with all that, it should be well worth it. I'd been considering the upgraded transmission, but with the two axle costs it may be a bit out of my pricerange for now (I'd rather have a nice clean engine first).

Thanks for the tip though, at least this gets me a good starting point!

Rhalin
07-07-2008, 04:37 PM
I just got a response back from Jarco. They say that they are no longer importing and will be unable to get any more all-trac clips. This is rather dissapointing, considering how highly everyone here recommends them. ATK emailed back as well, and they sell engines only, no clips.