PDA

View Full Version : stalling problem..electrical?



Simonhla
06-12-2008, 11:40 PM
I just had my engine rebuilt due to a cracked head and many, many miles of wear and tear. It was time! Prior to the rebuild I was having stalling issues which occured almost always on idle. The car usually idled a little too high or way too low. I had the timing adjusted and a few other things done and the problem went away briefly. Then it came back with avengeance. Finally we decided to replace the idle control valve but right before we did we discovered the cracked head and went for a full rebuild.

Now that is complete and everything is done, I was beginning the break in period and lo and behold but it started stalling again! arrghh.... I should mention that towrds the end (before the rebuild) it had started to stall even during acceleration (but still mainly at idle).

Recently the door sensors (which I forgot the car even had) came on and worked well for a few days only to promptly disappear. I am thinking that I have an obvious electrical problem which is causing the stalling however I have almost run out of cash and need to get this fixed as efficiently as possible. I know electrical problems are the hardest to diagnose online but can anyone give me an idea of the best and most obvious places to start given the car's symptoms?

I believe my friend is going to stick it on a scanner tomorrow as he thinks there is a short somewhere but if I can get him to look at a few suggested areas first that would be helpful.

Sorry for the hefty post but I am at my wits end. I have been without a car for a month now doing this rebuild.

Thanks

Galcobar
06-13-2008, 12:42 AM
To test the idle air control valve, get the engine to running temperature, then set it in neutral (appropriately blocked and with parking brake on, of course).

Use a paperclip to bridge E1 and TE1 in the diagnostic port -- you should be able to find the light gray, thumb-sized box between the driver-side strut tower and the windshield.

The engine revs should roll up from standard idle (700 +/- 50 RPM) to 900-1300 for five seconds, then drop back down to idle speed. It's easier if you have a handheld tach, you can attach that to the battery and the IG connector on the diagnostic port, but the in-car tach will work well enough.

Simonhla
06-13-2008, 12:55 AM
To test the idle air control valve, get the engine to running temperature, then set it in neutral (appropriately blocked and with parking brake on, of course).

Use a paperclip to bridge E1 and TE1 in the diagnostic port -- you should be able to find the light gray, thumb-sized box between the driver-side strut tower and the windshield.

The engine revs should roll up from standard idle (700 +/- 50 RPM) to 900-1300 for five seconds, then drop back down to idle speed. It's easier if you have a handheld tach, you can attach that to the battery and the IG connector on the diagnostic port, but the in-car tach will work well enough.

We actually changed the idle air control valve out already and that is not the problem. hence the reason I started to think it was electrical. As i said it also stalls out on acceleration. It's doing my head in.

Shadowlife25
06-13-2008, 01:16 AM
How long before it stalls at idle?
When you say under acceleration, do you mean you're just starting it and giving it fuel immediately, or does it run properly for a time and then stall out?
When it stalls, does it just cut all power (ie. no electricity at all) or does it still have power, but no fuel? (sputters and dies)
Have you checked your MAF? (mass airflow sensor)
Did EVERYTHING get connected properly after re-installation?

Sorry for the barrage of questions, but the more we know, the better the chances of coming up with an answer. :)

Simonhla
06-13-2008, 01:57 AM
How long before it stalls at idle?
When you say under acceleration, do you mean you're just starting it and giving it fuel immediately, or does it run properly for a time and then stall out?
When it stalls, does it just cut all power (ie. no electricity at all) or does it still have power, but no fuel? (sputters and dies)
Have you checked your MAF? (mass airflow sensor)
Did EVERYTHING get connected properly after re-installation?

Sorry for the barrage of questions, but the more we know, the better the chances of coming up with an answer. :)

That's perfectly ok. I am down with barrages of questions. I just appreciate the help. So to answer:

1. The stalling at idle is totally random. Sometimes it will run fine for quite a while and then it will strike after being run for a while. Other days it stalls at idle right from the off. If it has one of those days that it stalls out a lot then it can be a bastard to restart.
2. When I mean under acceleration I mean that if I am at a traffic stop for example and it is idling ok or a little roughly, when I give it gas on the green light it often threatens to splutter out before actually picking up. At other times it has accelerated fine for a few seconds and then just completely stopped on me. No splutter just total loss of power. On these occasions it normally restarts just fine.
3. I had the rebuild done by a friend who is a professional mechanic and he says mechanically there is not a problem. So I am fairly certain he has connected everything properly.
4. I am not sure if I lost total power or not on previous stalls. It is hard to recall. The car is currently with my friend but i somewhat suspect it did. The stalling was all very random but if I had to guess on a frequency I would say it was more likely to stall after being driven for a while.

CHRiS'_CeLiCa
06-13-2008, 03:13 AM
Did you check your battery posts and the points at which the harness attaches to the battery at the posts and their connections??? The reason i ask this , is because something similar happened to me. One day on the way home from the beach going 70MPH on the interstate, my car started jumping/stalling out of no where and i was like wtf could that be???... When i got it home,in my neighborhood, sparks shot from under my hood and it did the jumping/stalling thing again this time only in first gear. So i turned right around and took it back home. Popped the hood open and it was an electrical problem due to one of the connectors to the battery post, shorting out on the metal battery holder thing, that is bolted to the body. It wasnt making contact all the time but when it did, it shorted all the electricity of the whole car so it turned off for a split second and thats when it did the jumping/stalling thing. All i did was tape up where they were touching and it has been fine since. Hopefully you get all this rambling and hopefully it helps. Hope you find your problem, its def annoying going without your car because of engine problems.

Simonhla
06-13-2008, 04:06 AM
Did you check your battery posts and the points at which the harness attaches to the battery at the posts and their connections??? The reason i ask this , is because something similar happened to me. One day on the way home from the beach going 70MPH on the interstate, my car started jumping/stalling out of no where and i was like wtf could that be???... When i got it home,in my neighborhood, sparks shot from under my hood and it did the jumping/stalling thing again this time only in first gear. So i turned right around and took it back home. Popped the hood open and it was an electrical problem due to one of the connectors to the battery post, shorting out on the metal battery holder thing, that is bolted to the body. It wasnt making contact all the time but when it did, it shorted all the electricity of the whole car so it turned off for a split second and thats when it did the jumping/stalling thing. All i did was tape up where they were touching and it has been fine since. Hopefully you get all this rambling and hopefully it helps. Hope you find your problem, its def annoying going without your car because of engine problems.

Thanks Mate. I'm going to check that our right away. It's still going on the scanner tomorrow regardless...better to be safe than sorry. I will post my findings.

Okctrd
06-13-2008, 05:31 AM
yea like chris said, check the battery wire connection, the same thing happened to me a year ago.

Simonhla
06-13-2008, 08:37 AM
yea like chris said, check the battery wire connection, the same thing happened to me a year ago.

What about the intermittent door sensors? Why would they not work for years and then suddenly start working again? Do you think this related?

KoreanJoey
06-13-2008, 09:10 AM
What about the intermittent door sensors? Why would they not work for years and then suddenly start working again? Do you think this related?

Oddly enough, this happens... Toyotas often magically repair themselves on certain things although usually not on a permanent basis... like perhaps there was excessive corrosion on the contacts in the door sensors and them one time when you slammed the door it chipped off the corrosion and now is making contact at some points. *shrug*

Simonhla
06-13-2008, 07:42 PM
Oddly enough, this happens... Toyotas often magically repair themselves on certain things although usually not on a permanent basis... like perhaps there was excessive corrosion on the contacts in the door sensors and them one time when you slammed the door it chipped off the corrosion and now is making contact at some points. *shrug*


This site has been genuis. Only about a month ago I knew next to nothing about Celicas or cars in general. And although obviously I am still a total beginner it is amazing how much knowledge I have picked up. This place becomes addicting.

ciento44
06-13-2008, 08:27 PM
Thanks Mate. I'm going to check that our right away. It's still going on the scanner tomorrow regardless...better to be safe than sorry. I will post my findings.

Your buddy has a japanese OBD1 scanner? :wiggle:

Simonhla
06-14-2008, 01:58 AM
Your buddy has a japanese OBD1 scanner? :wiggle:

Yes, although I think he said it was an OBDII actually. Anyway he did the scans today and he is getting no codes back. There is no check engine light coming on either.

Apparently the car is idling perfectly now but it will randomly cut out while actually in drive (in motion). Bit of a bastard! This is why auto electrical engineers make so much money. I need to get it on one of those big $30K diagnostic machines. Going to take it to a japanese autoshop tomorrow.....or perhaps even the stealership...they do $99 for the diagnostic.

Getting really distressed. Hopefully this is a simple fix. Something is definitely grounding somewhere. Door sensors are definitely shot.

Anyway anymore insight is always very welcome.

CHRiS'_CeLiCa
06-14-2008, 03:03 AM
Ya im still thinking that it is shorting out somewhere....do you own or have access to a Digital Volt Meter?... If so you should try and check around under the hood just randomly, starting at the battery checking wires and connections for voltage, and how much of it you have. Just a random thought. DVMs are fun to play with too :)

Simonhla
06-14-2008, 04:29 AM
Ya im still thinking that it is shorting out somewhere....do you own or have access to a Digital Volt Meter?... If so you should try and check around under the hood just randomly, starting at the battery checking wires and connections for voltage, and how much of it you have. Just a random thought. DVMs are fun to play with too :)

I'll give that a go definitely. Should be a laugh at the very least.
Do you think paying to get a proper diagnostics test done at the stealership will locate the problem? At this point I just want to get the bad boy back on the road. I can't afford to pay an electrical engineer to go rummaging around in there though.

Simonhla
06-15-2008, 04:43 AM
Just a quick update. I am still struggling with this mini nightmare. Managed to pursuade a friend of a friend of a friend who is (luckily for me) an auto electrician, to have a look at it. He had the car today and I am waiting to hear back (through the two other friends!!) if he managed to locate the problem. Did I mention he is doing it for free? That's the important part.

If he didn't find anything then it's off to the stealership we go!!

Simonhla
06-19-2008, 08:39 AM
Ok well I always hate threads that end with no conclusion so even if no one is interested I wanted to post this update for anyone doing searches on this problem in the future.

I did the diagnostic and found that the Throttle Position Sensor was broken. This explain the inability to idle properly.

The funny part is what the stealership quoted me for the parts and labour. $178 for the part and $300 for the labour. So that's $478........to put that in perspective I just ordered the part from 1sttoyotaparts.com for $67.....labour? Free ;)

Hopefully that will be the end of my problems.