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Ghosty
05-20-2008, 09:46 PM
Today on CNN.com I saw something both entertaining and scary. The story (http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/05/20/geo.metro/index.html) is about how a lot of people are getting back into Geo Metros because of the cost of gas. Some cars are fetching five and seven times the blue-book value, and even that benchmark can be bloated. The girl in the article paid over $7,000 for her metro.

That's entertaining, of course, because most of us on the board have known about economical vehicles for some time. Some of us on here even own metros. But it's also scary because what happens when fuel gets incredibly expensive, and you can't even buy a Metro to offset the costs?

Well, for the tech savvy, there's always a solution. Many manufactures spared the U.S. the most fuel economic vehicles because of the power they didn't have (tip of the hat to American muscle) and the fuel economy we didn't need (thank you cheap gas). But now that we're out of cheap gas, we find ourselves in an interesting situation because of the lack of fuel economical vehicles. Most engines under 1.5L were not shipped to the U.S. But there's a whole fleet of sub 1.0L kei-cars overseas just waiting to be scrounged up. The tech savvy solution is to import these engines and do some swaps!

There Toyota solution that has been floating around for some time, too. Specifically the 4EFTE. It's 1.3L I4, turbocharged. Hits 135 HP @ 6400 RPM, and 116 LB-FT of torque comes in @ 4800 RPM. This engine was outfitted with a CT9 that had two boost modes: an economy boost pressure of 0.4 bar, and a performance pressure of 0.65 bar. It was intercooled via top-mount. Fuel economy wise, smart tuners have been able to coax anywhere between 45 to 50 mpg with even more power from the engine. That's a nice figure considering the horsepower, I think.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/mschroy/Celicatech/toyota3.jpg
The 1.3L, 16-valve turbocharged 4EFTE


Back in 1990, The Toyota Starlet EP80 was the first car to be outfitted with the 4EFTE. The use of the engine continued until the Glanza V Turbo EP90, the last edition of the Starlet, was canned in 1999. So most of your 4EFTE will not have a terrific number of miles accumulated. Some even come mated to a 5-speed C151 tranny with LSD standard. You can "test drive" a Glanza on Gran Turismo 4, if you want.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/mschroy/Celicatech/StarletGlanzamain.jpg
Toyota Starlet Glanza V Turbo (EP90)

Thanks to the terrific swapability of Toyota engines, you can easily exchange any 1.5L 5EFE engine for the 1.3L turbocharged model. That 1.5L 5E came in the American Paseo, Tercel and Echo. It's interesting to think that you can ditch the standard engines in these cars and get something that's more powerful and gets better gas mileage. Yes, you'll have to use premium gas, so that offsets the cost-benefit by about 6%. The 5EFE is terribly economical as is, with some hypermilers getting 50mpg. But I bet you anything a properly-tuned 1.3L turbo can outperform a 1.5L NA engine in that regard, especially on the highway.

Not to condone the use of ethanol, but if you are really desperate, you can adjust A/F ratio to support E85 and see a bigger jump in cost-benefit (but not mileage because more fuel is required for stoich in E85). Of course, you could go even more economical and get an N/A 2nd Generation 4EFE.

These were just some things I've had on my mind as of late. I'm really starting to wonder what other cars (non Toyotas) have the option to swap in a small engine, even a Kei engine (sub 660cc, turbocharged, tall ratios). Hell, I bet someone could make a business out of taking in imports, swapping in more economical motors, and selling those buggers for some nice cash.

PhillyDRFT
05-20-2008, 10:47 PM
Very interesting read,

Is this cited from anywhere or from your own head/research?

I've wondered the same myself. Mostly fantasizing about using some of the smaller A series engines in an AW11.

Currently I've had an economy project of my own going. I'm only about 2 1/2 weeks into it but I picked up a 1993 Honda Civic "Del Sol" SI, For $1000. That was in mediocre shape. Needed a lot of body work. I'll get to that later. It's a 1.6l Ve... (yeah I'm not even going to say it) D16 something or other.

Driving normally I was averaging 28mpg. A good mix of highway and city miles. Changing my driving habbits a little I'm closer to 35mpg on this 2nd tank of gas. I'm going to give a full service and tune up next week once this tank is gone so I have sort of a benchmark to compare to. A few MPG sights and reads lead me to the conclusion seeing 50mpg out of the Del Sol isn't too far fetched.

I've heard of heavily modified Geo Metros bordering on 100mpg. If just for improving economy I have to slightly disagree that a swap would be more beneficial without it being common place. Most of these engines aren't even imported to the US commonly.

I would like to persue the ideas of modifying USDM engines through water injection. I haven't found much documentation on it's uses for economy as much as It's generally used for knock/detonation suppressant.

ciento44
05-20-2008, 10:48 PM
Very interesting read,

Is this cited from anywhere or from your own head/research?

I've wondered the same myself. Mostly fantasizing about using some of the smaller A series engines in an AW11.

Currently I've had an economy project of my own going. I'm only about 2 1/2 weeks into it but I picked up a 1993 Honda Civic "Del Sol" SI, For $1000. That was in mediocre shape. Needed a lot of body work. I'll get to that later. It's a 1.6l Ve... (yeah I'm not even going to say it) D16 something or other.

Driving normally I was averaging 28mpg. A good mix of highway and city miles. Changing my driving habbits a little I'm closer to 35mpg on this 2nd tank of gas. I'm going to give a full service and tune up next week once this tank is gone so I have sort of a benchmark to compare to. A few MPG sights and reads lead me to the conclusion seeing 50mpg out of the Del Sol isn't too far fetched.

I've heard of heavily modified Geo Metros bordering on 100mpg. If just for improving economy I have to slightly disagree that a swap would be more beneficial without it being common place. Most of these engines aren't even imported to the US commonly.

I would like to persue the ideas of modifying USDM engines through water injection. I haven't found much documentation on it's uses for economy as much as It's generally used for knock/detonation suppressant.

You need a CX tranny on that Del Slow. It'll get amazing gas mileage, and be the slowest thing you've ever driven.

METDeath
05-20-2008, 11:38 PM
I was already thinking about picking up an older factory turbo metro/firefly/sprint/what-have-you for the very reason of it'll get 50ish mpg and has close to 5SFE horsepower, just put in a roll cage so I don't die from a cigarette butt being tossed at me.

Ghosty
05-20-2008, 11:58 PM
Very interesting read,

Is this cited from anywhere or from your own head/research?


It's a combination of information I've collected from several sources-- mostly Wikipedia (good starting point for info about various models and engine types), a Tercel message board I've found, and even some basic info I've found on here about engine swaps (i.e. same-series engines are nearly direct replacements in most cases). Dr. Tweak has actually done at least two 5EFE to 4EFTE swaps.



I've wondered the same myself. Mostly fantasizing about using some of the smaller A series engines in an AW11.


You might be referring to the elusive 8A engine, which I've seen sometimes referred to as the 8AFE. Mostly it's referred to as 8A. That's a 1.3L, with the same 78.7 mm bore as a 1.8L 7AFE, but a shorter 69 mm stroke. Just some preliminary Wikipedia info shows that it's primarily used in China, for the Tianjin Xiali motor company. Can't hardly find any more information on it, though. Might be a royal pain to import an engine from China.




Currently I've had an economy project of my own going. I'm only about 2 1/2 weeks into it but I picked up a 1993 Honda Civic "Del Sol" SI, For $1000. That was in mediocre shape. Needed a lot of body work. I'll get to that later. It's a 1.6l Ve... (yeah I'm not even going to say it) D16 something or other.

Driving normally I was averaging 28mpg. A good mix of highway and city miles. Changing my driving habbits a little I'm closer to 35mpg on this 2nd tank of gas. I'm going to give a full service and tune up next week once this tank is gone so I have sort of a benchmark to compare to. A few MPG sights and reads lead me to the conclusion seeing 50mpg out of the Del Sol isn't too far fetched.


If you're doing a lot of highway miles, it might make sense to consider your areo on the car. Right away, a lot can be done to reduce drag. It really doesn't take that much time or money to remedy the problem, either.

First, naturally, take any wing you have on there off. It might do a fair bit of good to get some thin sheet aluminum, enclose some exposed parts on the underside to make a nice, smoothed surface. Specifically, I'm referring to airflow around the rear bumper. On most cars the rear bumper hangs down like a giant parachute and makes for a lot of drag. Anything done to prevent that effect would be a good move.

I wish I had some blogs or message boards to show you to substantiate this claim, but I somehow lost the link to a really good fuel-economy Web site. As a rule of thumb, though, whatever tools race car engineers have used to decrease drag can be modified to work on a street car in some form or another.

I'd recommend getting hold of Joseph Katz's "Race Car Areodynamics: Designing for Speed" by Bentley Publishers. There might be a pdf of it floating around on the internet somewheres...



I've heard of heavily modified Geo Metros bordering on 100mpg. If just for improving economy I have to slightly disagree that a swap would be more beneficial without it being common place. Most of these engines aren't even imported to the US commonly.


The economy might be questioned, I think, because it does cost money to swap. But for a person with the right tools and knowhow, the cost can be reduced. I'd have to run the numbers, but an actual economic benefit may not be seen for two or more years. It is a longer-term commitment.



I would like to persue the ideas of modifying USDM engines through water injection. I haven't found much documentation on it's uses for economy as much as It's generally used for knock/detonation suppressant.

Water injection, in theory, would allow an engine to run at a higher efficiency. But if you're operating a car with that high of cylinder temperature and pressure, and you're using to it to prevent knock, it would be disastrous if that system happened to fail on you.

In Corky Bell's "Maximum Boost," he warns about using these systems because there is often times no redundancy when they fail.

But if you can find a reliable system, then the more power to you!

PhillyDRFT
05-21-2008, 12:26 AM
Yeah I've been reading tons and tons of material on aero design and home testing. It's all about COD. Coefficient of Drag. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about since your response seems to be right on page with me.

The Wing idea is highly up to question as a lot of OEM spoilers really did a specific job. Like the idea of removing the tailgate of your pickup on some styles hurt MPG.

an under body diffuser is definitely a route I plan on taking soon for the Del Sol.

I have heard of that elusive little 8AFE you talked about, but most A series engines are small and great on econemy. The Low pressure turbo systems are what I wonder about. I just can't get my head around how they bring up efficiency. I haven't read ANYTHING about them yet though so it's just my thought of more air needs more fuel.

I read Maximum boost a long time ago, I believe as a recommendation by conrad turbo. I fail to regurgitate much of the book verbatim now though.

The lack of failsafes with a WI system will always remain it's weakest point. Thats why it's perpetually a better supliment or failsafe than an actual safety or key component.

this is all good banter. I do wish I had some of this stuff to play around with though. but I agree to the fullest. Aero is one of the key points to an efficent vehicle. at high way speeds 45mph+ you use 30-50% of engine power just to fight wind resistance depending on the make and model.

Rix86
05-21-2008, 02:18 AM
people with lightly modded TDI jetta or gold or whatever :puke: are getting 60 plus on the freeway.
Personally, I want no part of geo metro's, E series engines, volkswagen anythings, bla bla bla.
I'd buy another stock ae86 and get 28 in town and 34-38 on the highway before any of that.
Or an ae82/92/101/102.

extremeskillz
05-21-2008, 02:19 AM
Interesting read. These engines you speak of, do they fit 5th gens?

Ghosty
05-21-2008, 02:33 AM
Yeah I've been reading tons and tons of material on aero design and home testing. It's all about COD. Coefficient of Drag. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about since your response seems to be right on page with me.

The Wing idea is highly up to question as a lot of OEM spoilers really did a specific job. Like the idea of removing the tailgate of your pickup on some styles hurt MPG.

an under body diffuser is definitely a route I plan on taking soon for the Del Sol.


I think I know what you're getting at here -- some spoilers are designed to reduce drag via disrupting airflow, not create some sort of downforce (thereby increasing drag).



I have heard of that elusive little 8AFE you talked about, but most A series engines are small and great on econemy. The Low pressure turbo systems are what I wonder about. I just can't get my head around how they bring up efficiency. I haven't read ANYTHING about them yet though so it's just my thought of more air needs more fuel.

A turbocharger can increase engine efficiency, but it will never on its own decrease gas mileage. Anytime you're stuffing more air in a cylinder, it's going to require more fuel. So all that mumbojumbo about turbochargers increasing fuel economy is bunk. This you probably know.

Now, what turbochargers excel at is getting small engines to replicate the work of an engine of much larger displacement can produce. That little 1.3L 4EFTE, at 0.65 bar, can replicate the work of a 2.1L at a better gas mileage. This is a combination of less rolling friction and smaller rotating mass from the crankshaft, connecting rods, pistons, ancillaries, etc.

This difference comes out in a big way on the highway. Efficiency is hampered when coming on the throttle, because of the turbo spooling up and all. But once you are at cruising speed on the highway, the turbo doesn't need as much energy to keep it spinning.

So basically, the idea is to use the smallest engine possible to get you by, with the highest boost pressure your octane will provide. And that engine package will be the most efficient, in theory.



I read Maximum boost a long time ago, I believe as a recommendation by conrad turbo. I fail to regurgitate much of the book verbatim now though.

The lack of failsafes with a WI system will always remain it's weakest point. Thats why it's perpetually a better supliment or failsafe than an actual safety or key component.

this is all good banter. I do wish I had some of this stuff to play around with though. but I agree to the fullest. Aero is one of the key points to an efficent vehicle. at high way speeds 45mph+ you use 30-50% of engine power just to fight wind resistance depending on the make and model.

There’s an interesting passage in this “Race Car Aerodynamics” book that I was referring to earlier that you might find interesting. There’s a section in here describing how to make rear diffusers for a car.

“The effect of this rear slant on the drag and rear lift of a generic sedan is presented in Fig. 6.39. Lift at the rear axle is clearly reduced with increasing slant angle. Drag is reduced up to a slant angle of 4 degrees, above which it increase again (probably due to the side vortex effect described by Fig. 6.4D).”

Clr = Coefficient Lift Rear axle (a negative number here indicates downforce) top graph
Cd = Coefficient of Drag, bottom graph

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/mschroy/Celicatech/diffuserangle.jpg

In other words, for your rear diffuser, you want a 4 degree angle to minimize drag. To find out the actual dimensions of your rear diffuser, they’ve got that nice little diagram and formula up there: the horizontal length of your rear diffuser should be in a 0.176 ratio with the length of the car.

According to Consumer Guide Automotive (http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/1993-to-1997-honda-civic-del-sol-4.htm) , the length of your Del Sol is 157.3 inches, the length of the rear diffuser should be 27.7 inches, set at a 4 degree angle for the smallest Cd (approx 0.235). If you leave this a flat surface with a 0 degree angle (we assume that’s “stock”), you get Cd at around 0.255.

And as a nice little bonus, you get some downforce at no extra cost, enhanced by your wing, to help you stick to the highway. Maybe it’s info overkill, but since you’re making a diffuser, it helps to know how to make it work to its fullest.

Ghosty
05-21-2008, 02:44 AM
Interesting read. These engines you speak of, do they fit 5th gens?

Yes - all a matter of how much fabricating you want to do.

A 4EFTE engine will not fit any 5th gen without some custom engine mounts. Physically, it is smaller than a 4AFE and 5SFE.

In theory, a 8AFE should drop right in as far as mounts are concerned. However we have seen that a 4AGZE is NOT a direct match for 4AGE or 4AFE mounts. Odds are you wouldn't know until you actually drop it in, but at least you have an idea of what works and what doesn't based on the series of engine.

Looking at the entry on S-series engines on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_S_engine) , it appears there was such thing as a 4SFE. It's 1.8L, so maybe better gas mileage. It came on MKII Chaser, and Vista Etoile. Produced from 1995-1998.

sheep
05-21-2008, 06:03 AM
just buy a scooter if your that desperate lol or even a big bike can get up to 50+mpg

Ghosty
05-21-2008, 06:28 AM
just buy a scooter if your that desperate lol or even a big bike can get up to 50+mpg

Yeah... except I don't want to get ran over by some jackass in a lifted Ford F150 superduty with trucker stacks and 12-gauge in the back.

Though I must admit, getting a scooter has tempted me. They have this Piaggio (Vespa) dealer in Edwardsville whose scooters look more awesome all the time. Get some fat exhaust on that shit there go like BAAAAAHHHHHH. Vespa, bitches.

I think I got overly technical up above. The easiest, best thing to increase aero is to keep the underside smooth with some paneling. Throw out the interior and you're golden.

And that suzuki swift/ Geo metro turbo option is probably the smallest displacement you can get here in the states, as far as I can tell. But a 4EFTE Tercel would be pretty cool.

91GTvert
05-21-2008, 09:16 PM
I hope everyone can follow my equation; here it is:

reliable good gas mileage + fun=

AE92 or AE86; sedan, coupe,whatever....old corolla+
4afe or 16valve 4age+
C52 transmission+
good suspension and motor mounts+
decently tuned up (which isn't hard)+
STRIPPER INTERIOR (minus bare essentials)

I think from square 1 this would be achievable with maybe $2000 if you find a running car and do the work yourself. This setup is usually good for 40mpg+.

key point I need to make though, is all the extra bullshit we carry in our cars can add up to another passenger or more. remove what you can, when you can, and no I am not saying dump the spare...thats just crazy. why drive around with the weight of a full car when its just you? and whats always fun is when you empty out your trunk, the loss of the extra weight will make the car handle better as well.

PhillyDRFT
05-21-2008, 10:08 PM
This went from a good discussion about physics and DIY engineering to a "I know the answer!!!" thread too quickly.

Theres a lot of information on a bunch of different topics here. I might make another thread to discuss some of them further.

VikingJZ
05-21-2008, 11:28 PM
I'm on the hunt for a scooter.

What about one of those late 80's Pontiac "LeMans" hatchbacks....maybe early 90's.


I know of one for REAL cheap.

Ghosty
05-22-2008, 01:21 AM
I'm on the hunt for a scooter.

What about one of those late 80's Pontiac "LeMans" hatchbacks....maybe early 90's.


I know of one for REAL cheap.

A.K.A. Daewoo LeMans :bigthumbu

do eet

Ghosty
05-22-2008, 03:57 AM
http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/21/news/companies/honda_hybrids.ap/index.htm?cnn=yes

Don't want to inundate the boards with posts about being a fuel miser, so here I'll park an interesting article from CNN about what Detroit is doing to serve customers better...

"DETROIT (AP) -- Honda Motor Co. is coming out with hybrid cars, starting early next year, that will cost about $1,900 more than comparable gas-only models. The cost for the Detroit Three, according to industry analysts, could be lower market share as U.S. consumers continue their rapid shift to smaller, more fuel-efficient vehicles."

In other words, nothing. Detroit has failed to anticipate $150 a barrel oil. Do they not read the news? Way to be smart, champs.

VikingJZ
05-22-2008, 05:25 AM
Once I'm home I gunning for that thing if I can. Apparently, from what I read on a GM forum that they're becoming collector cars (rofl) because of the fuel crisis now and the shittiness of the GM 80's era.

Another car I am hunting for is a Dodge Omni or Plymouth Whoreizon ;)

I could have had a GLH-R Omni a few years ago for $650 that leaked tranny fluid. Looking back, I was such an IDIOT for not buying it. It ran really well but needed a paint job. Sharp car for what it was.

I just want politicians to shut up about the gas tax free summer. It isn't coming this year, probably won't next year. Additionally, its pointless, at least for we folks in Northern IN. Our roads are SHITTY, and all that extra money to save you three bucks every fill up means even worse roads. I can't tell you how bad our roads get in the winter. My town sucks because they have no money or common sense, so they use sand...lol. Our area had BARELY enough cash to pay for asphalt and salt for the winter, and had to dip into emergency funds and a grant to finish the winter. It would kill us in the long run.

Ghosty
05-22-2008, 05:55 AM
Once I'm home I gunning for that thing if I can. Apparently, from what I read on a GM forum that they're becoming collector cars (rofl) because of the fuel crisis now and the shittiness of the GM 80's era.

Another car I am hunting for is a Dodge Omni or Plymouth Whoreizon ;)

I could have had a GLH-R Omni a few years ago for $650 that leaked tranny fluid. Looking back, I was such an IDIOT for not buying it. It ran really well but needed a paint job. Sharp car for what it was.

Do you mean a GLH-S ... Goes Like Hell S'more! The 2.2L turbo model? Those rock.

You really would be well-advised to get your '72 up and running, I bet the gas mileage is reasonable, or at least a step up from the 3.0L Lexus.



I just want politicians to shut up about the gas tax free summer. It isn't coming this year, probably won't next year. Additionally, its pointless, at least for we folks in Northern IN. Our roads are SHITTY, and all that extra money to save you three bucks every fill up means even worse roads. I can't tell you how bad our roads get in the winter. My town sucks because they have no money or common sense, so they use sand...lol. Our area had BARELY enough cash to pay for asphalt and salt for the winter, and had to dip into emergency funds and a grant to finish the winter. It would kill us in the long run.

Less taxes are not the answer. I could go on about how the government sucks with managing money (mainly I have a beef with subsidies and tax breaks for things like ballparks, stadiums and other big projects... if it needs a subsidy to get up and running, it wouldn't make it on its own anyway, and shouldn't be built in the first place). But less taxes will not make better roads, as you say.

This may seem dramatic, but our way of life is going to have to change. We are going to have to stop burning oil. And until we figure out how to not burn oil, we are going to have to live very frugally. But this is a good shift.

For so long, the American way of life has been to consume more and more and more. We section ourselves off from our neighbors and live in gated communities, we are so scared about people taking our shit. Bigger trucks. Bigger cars. Faster. Economically, fiscally, you get a big GDP. That is, until you run out of the basic commodity that fuels it all... energy... in this case, oil, then you're screwed.

I should have prefaced this with a tangent alert.

VikingJZ
05-22-2008, 05:57 AM
72 fo sho needs to run soon.

Drives me nuts that it sits.

3SmeCaptain
05-22-2008, 07:31 AM
you could take the complete custom route. start from the ground up making your own chassis from light weight materials and make the whole chassis into a cage for at least some safety. i know in my State, you can make your own car and have it road legal. all you need is a seat belt that at least has a lap based belt, at least a central rear view mirror and left hand exterior rear view mirror and a windshield of a sort to protect you as a driver from debris on the road. you would also need all exterior lights such as blinkers, head lights, break lights, reverse lights and hazards.

for something with an extremely light weight chassis, you don't need much power to move it. for example, my stock engine; the 1NZFE, is a 104hp / 105lbs torque 1.5L. make your new custom car to weigh around 900lbs or so, that small amount of power will be insanely quick. pair that with a C59 tranny and a longer gear set from Quaife to increase highway economy. it would be pretty nice... and then a possible slight build up with some forged rods and pistons with a simple turbo kit for say 150-175 crank hp, it would be like your own version of that ATOM car in Europe only a bit smaller probably, about half the power and probably double the economy. it's a pretty good option, the 1NZFE is so light that even my self *about a buck 30 in weight* and just dead lift it from my engine bay if i wanted. an all aluminum block makes great for saving weight.

Ghosty
05-22-2008, 08:00 AM
The 1NZ is a fantastic engine from what I know. The only downside is that it's so well tuned, there's hardly any room for improvement... the factory computer will keep making adjustments to any piggyback you have. That's not a bad thing, though. Factory it is a superb engine.

If I had the money, though, I'd really like to get a Yaris Liftback with the same engine and gut the whole thing out.

T-spoon
05-23-2008, 02:59 AM
Well, honestly in terms of fuel economy we've had no complaints with our 07 liftback. Every tank on the highway between Houston and Seattle was 40+mpg, sometimes in some pretty rough winter weather (heavy headwinds, snow, rain etc.). One tank my wife basically drafted off the uhaul and hit 50ish. I'd say average speed was around 70.

Here in Seattle we nail 34mpg consistantly. That's all city driving (and not a flat city I'll add) and we do not baby it to squeeze MPGs out, we push that little motor and wind up the RPMs. The gears are so so so ridiculously tall on it though that we usually don't even use 5th gear until we're ready to just cruise for a while. 4th and 5th both feel like overdrive gears, though I've never actually checked to see what the ratios are. So I'm willing to bet if we cared to we could be getting better gas mileage, but that's not gonna happen. I consider it a good enough compromise that I'm not driving the supra around with its 15mpg self :P

In any event, I'd pit a Yaris any day against a geo on this topic, unless you're really wanting to do heavy modification and tampering with the motor. The Yaris really is a Japan/Euro tiny econo-car with enough interior to do almost anything a midsize sedan can do. As others have said I think we'll be seeing more and more of that kind of car in US markets to ween us off the stupidly impractical SUV trend. We're really not out of oil, we're far from having come close to using up that energy resource, but in some ways this whole farsical "crises" will (has) put some positive trends in motion.

Ghosty
05-23-2008, 05:13 AM
That's encouraging to hear, T. I plan to own one in the not too distant future... If I can afford the inevitable markup thanks to recent oil prices. It would have been nice to buy low... but I probably have no room to complain with my Coupe and its 1.6L 4AFE. I get somewhere between 25 and 28 combined. Not tremendous, but no room to complain.

T have you ever heard of a magazine called "Siphon"? It's a car mag specifically for those market of cars. It's all about aftermarket trends for Yaris, Versa, xA, Fit, what have you. Not sure its in production anymore, but it was a very interesting read.

T-spoon
05-23-2008, 06:14 AM
Siphon? Hm, no can't say that I ever heard of it. I can't claim to really be into the econo car scene, I'd still be driving my gas guzzler if it were healthy at the moment. :lolhittin Or maybe I wouldn't, I dunno. The Yaris has grown on me though.

Dr Tweak
05-23-2008, 03:50 PM
Yes - all a matter of how much fabricating you want to do.

A 4EFTE engine will not fit any 5th gen without some custom engine mounts. Physically, it is smaller than a 4AFE and 5SFE.


Actually, you *might* be wrong. The 4EFTE uses a C52 transmission (the bellhousing is different though), so the three mounts on the transmission side might bolt up directly to a Celica ST. I'm not sure about the one mount that bolts to the engine itself (passenger side). And stock ST axles would work as well.

It would be pretty interesting to try :)

-Doc

ciento44
05-23-2008, 05:09 PM
That's encouraging to hear, T. I plan to own one in the not too distant future... If I can afford the inevitable markup thanks to recent oil prices. It would have been nice to buy low... but I probably have no room to complain with my Coupe and its 1.6L 4AFE. I get somewhere between 25 and 28 combined. Not tremendous, but no room to complain.

T have you ever heard of a magazine called "Siphon"? It's a car mag specifically for those market of cars. It's all about aftermarket trends for Yaris, Versa, xA, Fit, what have you. Not sure its in production anymore, but it was a very interesting read.

When was the last time you had a tune-up on that thing?

That may not be bad depending on how you drive.... but i usually get 29-30 combined on my black car, and it desperately needs new plugs, wires, and timing set.

Ghosty
05-23-2008, 09:17 PM
When was the last time you had a tune-up on that thing?

That may not be bad depending on how you drive.... but i usually get 29-30 combined on my black car, and it desperately needs new plugs, wires, and timing set.

Dist cap, rotor, and plugs were about 3k miles ago.

Timing... I don't remember when :(

I'm sure the trans fluid could use a flush too.

I'm not that hard on it, but I do make a lot of short trips (gf is less than 5 miles away, many short trips there and about town). It's better most days than the EPA estimates, but I wonder if it could do better.