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View Full Version : do erams work??



spaztheweird1
05-08-2008, 09:57 PM
i seen this many ime before but figured i would ask you guys??
E Ram (http://www.electricsupercharger.com/products.html) i found other sites but wanted to know if you guys have ever tryed one or now any that has theres other sites that claims it works but i dont know

spaztheweird1
05-08-2008, 10:02 PM
i also found these web sites the first one seems it might work since its a real turbo

website 1 (http://www.fullonspeed.com/products.asp?cat=93)
website 2 (http://www.electricchargers.com/)

VikingJZ
05-08-2008, 10:31 PM
I just visited Rofl House and got me some roffles.


No they don't work. You can turblow your 4AFExtremelyslow for cheaper than that crap.

CriScO
05-08-2008, 10:50 PM
Unfortunately the laws of physics apply on earth. They don't work. Boost is all about atmospheric pressure, not just air induction. You can only flow a certian amount of air in any given space before you have to up the pressure. A fan in the intake line can't excede the limit.

4thgenceli
05-08-2008, 11:20 PM
i seen this many ime before but figured i would ask you guys??
E Ram (http://www.electricsupercharger.com/products.html) i found other sites but wanted to know if you guys have ever tryed one or now any that has theres other sites that claims it works but i dont know
LOL... yeah.




After purchasing and (properly) installing the e-RAM on your engine, you do not feel that the performance increase is what we have claimed (4%-6% HP increase), you just need to do the following within 30 days of receiving your e-RAM to get a full refund*.. Take your car to a dyno test in your area. Make dyno runs with and without the e-RAM activated, and take a picture of how it was installed. Mail the e-RAM back to us with the picture, a copy of your receipt, and a clear copy of your dyno comparison results (signed as witnessed by the technician running the dyno). If the dyno shows the e-RAM does not increase horsepower in your engine by an average of at least 4% of its previous horsepower throughout the 3000 to 6000 rpm range, and we conclude from the picture that you have installed the unit correctly, we will give you a full refund* and even pay for 1/2 your dyno fee! (up to a maximum of $50 reimbursement) *Full refund does not include shipping charges *Please see "compatibility information" section below We challenge any other manufacturer of aftermarket bolt-on horsepower devices to make the same commitment! We know it works!
(10/04) We now accept G-Tech performance meter tests for validation of performance gains.

Cavanagh
05-08-2008, 11:56 PM
HAhaha those things are complete garbage.

VikingJZ
05-09-2008, 01:16 AM
Exactly why I had to make a sepcial trip to Rofl House

extremeskillz
05-09-2008, 01:48 AM
Yea, no those don't work. Get a real turbo then we'll talk. :hehe:

spaztheweird1
05-09-2008, 08:54 PM
thats why i ask about i think the first link on the second part i posted it looks like real turbos with electric cranks instead of exhaust ones

tuner4life
05-10-2008, 05:25 AM
Even it you could manage to find one big enough to actually pressurize the air in the intake chamber, the load on the alternator would be so much that you wouldn't be making any more power in the end, all the "extra horsepower" would all be going to turn the extra load on the alternator.

Conrad_Turbo
05-12-2008, 04:39 PM
NO. Back in the Celica.net days I had a discussion with the owner on the forum. I wish that convo was saved...but reading it showed how marketing on their site can easily dupe people. For christ sake he measured airflow CFM by how quick a garbage bag filled with air... Sure won't find that on their site.

Slider
05-12-2008, 05:06 PM
For christ sake he measured airflow CFM by how quick a garbage bag filled with air... Sure won't find that on their site.

Bahahaha :laugh:

4thgenceli
05-12-2008, 09:19 PM
Give this a try, may help too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hez8qPzp_1k&feature=related

METDeath
05-13-2008, 12:45 AM
Someone showed up at a dyno day with one of those... They did three pulls, one pull with no airfilter no eram, one pull with an air filter no eram, and one pull with air filter and eram. The pull with no filter/eram and the pull with filter and eram were both the same at 1hp over no eram with an airfilter. So... long story short, an eram will only simulate you not having an airfilter... if you're lucky.

85gtsblackman
05-13-2008, 02:39 AM
honestly if 1 were you id do one or a few of these

a swap, but gas in fl for 93 is 399
build up suspension

andy
05-13-2008, 04:07 AM
same as your hair dryer. put your hand on the outlet of your hair dryer and see if it will try to move your hand off. Those things are made to move air not compress it. two WAY different things.

celicaGT90_05
05-13-2008, 05:42 AM
there is something someone came up with actually did work, however it took a LOT of energy and cost and the performance gains were minimal, not at all worth it. The thing about turbos is they dont allow the air to seap back out easily, where as these are just a fan that cant hold pressure. The only thing they could really do realisitcally is improve throttle response

Shadowlife25
05-13-2008, 06:17 AM
Any of these "electric turbo" gimmicks are just that: Gimmicks.

You will NOT see any performance gain from use of these type of products. The truth of the matter is simply that your engine is actually losing some potential power due to parasitic drag in you electrical system. Alternator is working overtime to try to power additional accessories which increases engine load. Does it seem that this would add or SUBTRACT from potential power?

You would see more "gains" from doing a BIG 3 upgrade on your electrical system and using an upgraded Hi-Amperage alternator. The gains I am referring to in this case would be in the realm of easier starting, better current transfer throughout your electrical/charging system, no dimming when brake pedal is depressed or when stereo is at high volume.

Since you seem to be looking for "CHEAP POWER" from the posts you have been submitting, I will also add that the "add 20hp!" chips that you will or probably already have seen on E-Bay are also no good. These do not truly add any Hp, but instead fool you ecu into thinking that it is a constant 60-something deg. outside which allows a small advance in timing.

Don't waste your time.

If you want some REAL noticeable power, try upgrading your intake and exhaust to something that is less restrictive and a PROVEN way to add a few HP without wasting your hard earned cash on snake-oil.

spaztheweird1
05-13-2008, 06:13 PM
ok yes fans cant compress but isnt the psi measured by the amount of air being pushed in the intake??i mean thats why you cant run to high in motors cause theres to much air at once right ?? i was asking cause my father has a mini air tank that can control the psi in the tank it can run on a inverter with out dimming my lights i i had a bad tire with a leak and had to drive from my house in west palm to Miami and i had to pull over and fill it up every other hour and it did fine just think is there a way to drop it dont to like 5 psi and set it up that when gas is full throttle shot it in like a air nos just a i deal want a turbo but not for daily driver so i was thinking something on the weekend i could put in and remove

ciento44
05-13-2008, 06:16 PM
ok yes fans cant compress but isnt the psi measured by the amount of air being pushed in the intake??i mean thats why you cant run to high in motors cause theres to much air at once right ?? i was asking cause my father has a mini air tank that can control the psi in the tank it can run on a inverter with out dimming my lights i i had a bad tire with a leak and had to drive from my house in west palm to Miami and i had to pull over and fill it up every other hour and it did fine just think is there a way to drop it dont to like 5 psi and set it up that when gas is full throttle shot it in like a air nos just a i deal want a turbo but not for daily driver so i was thinking something on the weekend i could put in and remove

PSI is Pounds per Square Inch.

It's a measure of pressure, not flow.

Conrad_Turbo
05-13-2008, 06:28 PM
ok yes fans cant compress but isnt the psi measured by the amount of air being pushed in the intake??i mean thats why you cant run to high in motors cause theres to much air at once right ?? i was asking cause my father has a mini air tank that can control the psi in the tank it can run on a inverter with out dimming my lights i i had a bad tire with a leak and had to drive from my house in west palm to Miami and i had to pull over and fill it up every other hour and it did fine just think is there a way to drop it dont to like 5 psi and set it up that when gas is full throttle shot it in like a air nos just a i deal want a turbo but not for daily driver so i was thinking something on the weekend i could put in and remove

Flowing 5-10psi of air at a few hundred CFM requires *quite* a bit of power...nothing is free with the laws of physics in place.

http://aceengineering.ca/turbo_myth.asp

Wrote that in the celica.net days... I should rewrite it, but the point still comes across.

Start a new post and drag one of thoes electric turbo guys in here and I will create an entertaining thread... :lolhittin

3SmeCaptain
05-13-2008, 11:17 PM
i think my poop is worth more :lolhittin

flowing air and compressing it is two completely different things.

if this simple little fans could do that, you're talking MAJOR rpm speeds going on. in a turbo, as it spools up, it's rpm's could reach well over 100,000rpms. this not only is related to it's flow rate, but it's compression rate at the same time. also, a fan isn't sealed around it's props while turbine prop of a turbo is and holds the air that it takes it. put your hand over the exhaust side of a hair dryer, what happens? nothing right? other then burning your hand if you left the heat on... put your hand over the exhaust end of a turbo compressor, it'll be like trying to seal off the growing pressure of a highly carbonated pop bottle that was shaken up. take your hand and cover the intake of a heat dryer, what happens? nothing right? take your hand and cover the intake of a turbo inlet... what happens? specially at high rpm? you lose a few fingers...

plus, do know that flow rate of a turbo could mean anything in PSI. you could have some 500ccm of flow on one engine with say... 20psi and then 500ccm of flow on a completely different engine and see 10psi *small engine versus big engine*. psi means absolutely nothing other then to be a form of measurement on a familiar engine to you. when it comes down to it, it's about the air flow needed for a given power goal *lbs/min*, your A/F ratios and your fuel consumption over a given period of time *0.55/60 for consumption over one minute*.

here's an example. say you have a 3SGTE, and you want to make... 500bhp *crank horse power*. this is how you would figure out what flow rate you'd need, what compression ratio it would be and how to read a turbo company's turbo map.


500 goal hp X 12.0 A/F X 0.55 / 60 = 55lbs/min of flow.

now you have flow, now you can find out what the absolute psi would be. this is where you use a gas constant of 639.6 *abut the average fuel constant* and max engine temp plus intake charge temp which could be seen as high as 130-135 extra degrees so lets just use 130. now we also use a given engine efficiency which is normally between 0.9-0.99 at a specific RPM and multiply it by the displacement of the engine and the math would look a little like this:


55lbs/min X 639.6 x (460+130)
-----------------------------
0.92 X 7000rpm / 2 X 121.97in^3 *2.0L in cubic inches*

This should come out to about 52.8 absolute psi. this is the combination of compressed air and atmospheric ambient pressure. at sea level, atmospheric pressure is normally around 14.7psi, the higher in altitude you are, the lower the atmospheric pressure is. at 5,000 feet above see level, atmospheric pressures are normally seen around 12.2-12.5psi. we'll use 14.7psi as our max.


52.8ABpsi - 14.7ATpsi

this should come out to about 38-39psi depending on differences of elevation and weather climates in your area which generally put off and add on small amount of added atmospheric pressure. now you know how much PSI you should be seeing on your 3SGTE to create 500 crank horse power and generally from what i've seen on most alltrac dynos, there seems to be about a 13-15% lose of power through the drive train, this would mean you would be sitting around 430whp give or take 5% at this altitude and atmospheric condition.

now, to find out what compression ratio you'd be sitting at to figure out what turbo would best suit your needs. you need the original absolute psi and the atmospheric ambient psi and divide the two with a given lose difference in atmospheric psi. it should look like so:


52.8ABpsi / (14.7ATpsi - 1)

this would put you to a rather high 3.59 compression ratio and the higher your altitude is, the higher the compression ration is which means the harder it will be for you to generate the power without having one big spike of power out of nowhere. this is a suggestion that you should do some head work and increase your reving ability from 7,000 to 8,000+ to make creating this power much easier for your engine OR use a bigger liter size or stroke the engine out.


i hope this clears you up a bit on how turbos work and how to calculate what you need for what you want.

Shadowlife25
05-14-2008, 08:11 AM
Well thought out response.

3SmeCaptain
05-14-2008, 10:42 AM
OH!

forgot to mention how to get your liter size in cubic inches.

liter / 28.32 / 0.000579 = cubic inched

example:

2.0L / 28.32 = aprox 0.07062ft^3 *0.070614689....*
0.07062ft^3 / 0.000579 = aprox 121.96in^3 *121.959739205...*

Conrad_Turbo
05-14-2008, 05:51 PM
psi means absolutely nothing other then to be a form of measurement on a familiar engine to you. when it comes down to it, it's about the air flow needed for a given power goal *lbs/min*

How do your figure out mass air flow rate if "psi means absolutely nothing"? Volume flow rate and pressure (psi) can be used to determine the mass flow rate of air, a larger mass flow rate of air, more fuel will be used accordingly. More air and fuel = more power.

Ah I see you're a young pup. :D

3SmeCaptain
05-14-2008, 09:56 PM
psi means nothing at all specifically dealing with different displacement engines. like i mentioned above, 20 psi on one engine could be something completely different like 10psi on another engine of a bigger displacement yet BOTH are using the same air mass to create the same amount of power.

example:

500hp for a 2L using the same situation i used on the equations above.

500 X 12 X 0.55/60 = 55lbs/min *there is your mass air flow rate*

55 X 639.6 X (460 + 130)
------------------------ = 52.8 Absolute PSI
0.92 X 7000/2 X 121.97in^3

52.8 - 14.7 = 38.1psi *Boost pressure needed based off this engine*

now for a V8 350, 500hp using the same situation above.*a 5.74L engine*

500 X 12 X 0.55/60 = 55lbs/min *again, your mass flow rate needed*

55 X 639.6 X (460 + 130)
------------------------ = 18.42 Absolute psi
0.92 X 7000/2 X 350in^3

18.42 - 14.7 = 3.72psi *boost pressure needed based off this engine.*



this is why psi means nothing at all...

Conrad_Turbo
05-14-2008, 11:09 PM
psi means nothing at all specifically dealing with different displacement engines. like i mentioned above, 20 psi on one engine could be something completely different like 10psi on another engine of a bigger displacement yet BOTH are using the same air mass to create the same amount of power.

example:

500hp for a 2L using the same situation i used on the equations above.

500 X 12 X 0.55/60 = 55lbs/min *there is your mass air flow rate*

55 X 639.6 X (460 + 130)
------------------------ = 52.8 Absolute PSI
0.92 X 7000/2 X 121.97in^3

52.8 - 14.7 = 38.1psi *Boost pressure needed based off this engine*

now for a V8 350, 500hp using the same situation above.*a 5.74L engine*

500 X 12 X 0.55/60 = 55lbs/min *again, your mass flow rate needed*

55 X 639.6 X (460 + 130)
------------------------ = 18.42 Absolute psi
0.92 X 7000/2 X 350in^3

18.42 - 14.7 = 3.72psi *boost pressure needed based off this engine.*



this is why psi means nothing at all...

Pressure is due to the restriction in flow. Of course different engines will flow differently, that is why pressure is important. If it wasn't, why would you do the calculations? :lol:

3SmeCaptain
05-15-2008, 12:26 AM
people ask over and over all the time "how much psi do i need for this much power... blah blah blah" and what they don't understand is it's not the psi they need to be worried about, it's their flow. the flow is what will create the psi in return to show the driver if they are at that specific flow rate or not. it also tells the driver/motor builder what turbo they would need to use for that given power and what AR they should be looking for ontop of knowing where the power is going to peak at and whether or not it's still within the efficiency of that given turbo. the math is to tell you what psi you need in response to someone asking "what psi do i need to make blah blah horse power".

Conrad_Turbo
05-15-2008, 05:00 PM
people ask over and over all the time "how much psi do i need for this much power... blah blah blah" and what they don't understand is it's not the psi they need to be worried about, it's their flow. the flow is what will create the psi in return to show the driver if they are at that specific flow rate or not. it also tells the driver/motor builder what turbo they would need to use for that given power and what AR they should be looking for ontop of knowing where the power is going to peak at and whether or not it's still within the efficiency of that given turbo. the math is to tell you what psi you need in response to someone asking "what psi do i need to make blah blah horse power".

Yes but sometimes pressure is the easiest variable to change. If you have two exact same engines, one with a factory set turbo and the other with a boost controller. The only way you can compare power output without a dyno is with boost pressure input. That's why people ask the question, because it's the easiest variable to change.

Things do change however if turbos are swapped (some have less backpressure than others), exhaust systems, cam(s), valves, portwork or intake changes. That will result in the same boost pressure (due to the wastegate diaphram not being changed) but the flow increasing thus providing more power at the same boost level, or theoretically the same hp at a lower boost level.

There are two ways of looking at it, you're only looking at the one side. In the end the mass flow rate is the only important factor, that is based off of two variables, volume flow rate and pressure, both equally important.