PDA

View Full Version : Gas saving: 10mph over = + $0.54 a gallon



Ghosty
04-02-2008, 02:01 AM
This is all stuff that we already know: slowing down is better for MPG. But here's a new article with some interesting numbers on the short and long-term effect of speed on gas mileage.

Over 400 miles, a driver would save more than $6 by driving at 55 instead of 65. Multiply that by an average of 12,000 miles in a year, and you can save more than $180 a year.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/26/autos/slow_down_save_gas/index.htm?postversion=2008032711


Also from CNN Money, there is a comparison between the long-term cost of fuel economy on vehicles and depreciation of those vehicles (basically cost/benefit).

They say in here that selecting a 2WD option instead of a 4WD option to save on gas won't be cost-effective in the long run, because the vehicle depreciates more when the option is taken off. They also say that selecting a manual transmission doesn't save much gas and ultimately hurts the value of the car.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/31/autos/shopping_for_mpg/index.htm?postversion=2008040116

Blackcloud
04-02-2008, 02:49 AM
what does that compute to in diesel prices?


diesel--- more valuable then gold!!

Ghosty
04-02-2008, 03:21 AM
what does that compute to in diesel prices?


diesel--- more valuable then gold!!


It is, considering that we need diesel to power our rigs so we can get FOOD.

You read about trucks in NJ pulling over because of the cost of gas? Now that's scary shit.

tuner4life
04-02-2008, 03:25 AM
In my book, a manual trans NEVER hurts the value of the car.

Ghosty
04-02-2008, 03:30 AM
But does it hurt the value relative to other people, that's the point of the article.

Regardless if it hurts the value of the car, if you want a manual, you should get a manual- because many cars turn out being long-term investments and you want to be happy with your purchase. Obviously the manual provides an intangible level of value to the vehicle for a certain class of owners (car people).

celicaGT90_05
04-02-2008, 03:34 AM
why would a MT hurt the value? I suppose because people are lazy asses and complain about shifting gears (its not that hard people). But, MT's tend to hold out better than an automatic, simply due to that all it needs is some lube and its good to go, you dont have hydraulics controlling everything, or electronics for that matter. Either way, I dont care if MT hurts the value, its a lot more fun and worth it imo, there will still be people willing to pay the same amount for that as compared to an AT. Though, they are right, AT's get the same mileage as MT's anymore, but that is only due to the TCC (torque convertor clutch) which has been out for ages.

extremeskillz
04-02-2008, 03:37 AM
well manual =better gas mileage as well.

celicaGT90_05
04-02-2008, 03:38 AM
^ read above, thats not true anymore. The only thing I can see manual getting better mileage in anymore is city driving with all the stop and go. Just for those who are not in the know, automatics require fluid in order to operate and to transfer power in the torque convertor which replaces the clutch in this system. Since fluid does transfer the power, the power isnt as capable of making it to the wheels as it would be in an MT, which results in lower MPG. TCC helps prevent loss of mileage though

Blackcloud
04-02-2008, 04:26 AM
werd.. not true anymore... ATs are faster shifting, and just as good on mpg now a days.


whats going on with truckers in NJ?

i also heard that there is going to be a trucker strike this weekend

VikingJZ
04-02-2008, 04:46 AM
Manual trannies are only hot ticket for people that are into cars. For the average Joe just commuting to work, a stick can be/is a royal pain in the ass. Thats why you don't see newer minivans with five speeds.


Diesel fuel just costs too much now. I wanted to find an older Benz diesel for a commuter car but not at $4.39 a gallon.

celicaGT90_05
04-02-2008, 05:06 AM
Manual trannies are only hot ticket for people that are into cars. For the average Joe just commuting to work, a stick can be/is a royal pain in the ass. Thats why you don't see newer minivans with five speeds.

Although I am heavily in to cars, my ranger is a 5 speed and I use to drive it everywhere since it was my only vehicle, and I never grew tired of it being a manual. However, I am the type that really enjoys it where as I know many dont. As for the no 5 speed mini vans, thats actually not true, there were 5 speed manual versions of the ford aerostar

Murgatroy
04-02-2008, 05:08 AM
Few women go out of their way to learn to drive a stick. Hell at this point, few men learn either.

Within 20 years manual transmissions won't come in new cars.

Driving a stick can be a hassle in heavy traffic, city driving etc..

The point is, ANYONE can drive an automatic, thus it's value will be higher as ANYONE can buy it, as opposed to the select few (and fewer by the year) that can drive a manual.

There there are the benefits to an auto in the drag racing environment, towing and so forth.

Hell, even Tractors are going to automatic shifting manuals, I only have 3 trucks left in my fleet that are manuals.

VikingJZ
04-02-2008, 05:33 AM
I didn't say there were no stick minivans at all.

I have seen first gen Caravans with them along with the Aerostar.

But generally you don't see them

19celica90
04-02-2008, 05:40 AM
simple, geo metro :wiggle:
- 2 door
-1.0 liter
-5 speed
-carb'd
-wieghs probably <1500lbs
-can be had for under 1000, like mine! 400 bucks

all this and with a good tune up you can easily get 45+mpg! In my other geo, which was a 4 door manual, i spent roughly 30 bucks a month on gas! This one i currently have, well i filled her up last friday morning for 25 bucks, ive already put 200 or so miles and still have a little more than half in the tank :) The Geo metro, the true American Revolution!

Murgatroy
04-02-2008, 05:42 AM
I have put a tank of gas in Chaos and it has lasted almost 3 months.

I haven't had to fill Mudhoney up for 6 months.

Blackcloud
04-02-2008, 05:44 AM
i put in at least $75 every week

Frenchy
04-02-2008, 05:45 AM
simple, geo metro :wiggle:
- 2 door
-1.0 liter
-5 speed
-carb'd
-wieghs probably <1500lbs
-can be had for under 1000, like mine! 400 bucks

all this and with a good tune up you can easily get 45+mpg! In my other geo, which was a 4 door manual, i spent roughly 30 bucks a month on gas! This one i currently have, well i filled her up last friday morning for 25 bucks, ive already put 200 or so miles and still have a little more than half in the tank :) The Geo metro, the true American Revolution!

QFT!!!

19celica90
04-02-2008, 05:53 AM
and Frenchy, all that is done without any electronics, hybrid synergy drive, computers yadda yadda yah stuff that "supposedly does stuff to help mpg". The geo did all this back in the 80's with out technology. And till today i think it gets better mileage than a prius, versa, yaris, fit or any other car. Plus, when you factor in the low cost of acquiring one, its a win win. Also, replacement parts for geos are insanely cheap. I just put in an order for these following items"
Wheel bearing
Wheel bearing retainer
Thermostat
Thermostat gasket

How much did this cost me you ask? A mere 16 bucks, fuck ya!

celicaGT90_05
04-02-2008, 06:12 AM
I actually like Geo Metros and Trackers. I know they arent very well thought of, but they are cheap, they are actually kinda cool looking, and they will go forever on a gallon of gas. The main draw back to them is that they arent very safe, avoid crashes lol but other than that, 3 cylinder power!


I didn't say there were no stick minivans at all.

I have seen first gen Caravans with them along with the Aerostar.

But generally you don't see them

I overlooked the newer part, sorry, just making a point that they are out there

david in germany
04-02-2008, 06:31 AM
Ok I just went past a half tank in the Celica. A fill is right at 11-11.5 gallons for me. I hit a half tank at 250miles on the trip meter. I generaly pull around 33mpg but have gone so far as 38mpg. The trick? run the stock sized tires (proper inflation), no hard stops or starts and keep with the flow of traffic. If you try to get somewhere fast you usually are on the brakes more and have to speed up (yoyo effect) and you use more fuel. always remember to be calm and your driving will also reflect that.. Let that dude behind you pass you, he will only be faster to the traffic light than you... Many cities now have the lights timed to the speed limits, try it. Even 3-4 mph over the speed limit has you stopping at the red light just to have it change to green in a few seconds but by then you have stopped and have to use more gas just to get moving again. That is just a few of the things I do.

Ghosty
04-02-2008, 06:36 AM
werd.. not true anymore... ATs are faster shifting, and just as good on mpg now a days.


whats going on with truckers in NJ?

i also heard that there is going to be a trucker strike this weekend

It's just what you heard... a trucker's strike, it started Tuesday. Truckers are taking a big hit because they are owner/ operators, they are the sole absorber of fuel costs. According to this BBC radio newscast I just heard, some truckers were backing up NJ turnpikes by driving 20 mph. I also heard reports of trucks slowing down near Chicago, yet getting ticketed. Similar events occurred in Miami.

The thing is, I have a tough time wondering how blocking the average commuter is making anything better. It's not like they are cutting off Oil Exec's Veyrons or anything. They're just making a big stink at everyone's expense. If they want to make an impact, just stop driving. Period.


and Frenchy, all that is done without any electronics, hybrid synergy drive, computers yadda yadda yah stuff that "supposedly does stuff to help mpg". The geo did all this back in the 80's with out technology. And till today i think it gets better mileage than a prius, versa, yaris, fit or any other car. Plus, when you factor in the low cost of acquiring one, its a win win.

The Geo and the 1982 Honda Civic HF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Civic#Second_generation_.281980-1983.29) are the ultimate slap in the faces of the Prius, Insight, and all other hybrids. (The HF got 55mpg highway, btw)

I suspect the reason why these particular models went by the wayside was a combination factors: the lifting of the 1973 oil crisis, a growing want of American buyers for bigger cars and more accessories, a desire for higher build quality, and probably the biggest factor is crash worthiness.

But even now you can look at the Kei cars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kei_car) in japan, where people still buy small-displacement cars, and at a government discount, and the introduction of Daimler AG's Smart car... even the Tata Nano... and you can see there is a big demand for them now, and they are much better designed for crashes.

I think a bigger contribution to the death of these cars is the size difference with SUV's. People call them death traps, too afraid to drive them.

Ghosty
04-02-2008, 06:47 AM
generaly pull around 33mpg but have gone so far as 38mpg. The trick? run the stock sized tires (proper inflation), no hard stops or starts and keep with the flow of traffic. If you try to get somewhere fast you usually are on the brakes more and have to speed up (yoyo effect) and you use more fuel. always remember to be calm and your driving will also reflect that.. Let that dude behind you pass you, he will only be faster to the traffic light than you... Many cities now have the lights timed to the speed limits, try it. Even 3-4 mph over the speed limit has you stopping at the red light just to have it change to green in a few seconds but by then you have stopped and have to use more gas just to get moving again. That is just a few of the things I do.

I just recently got 33 mpg, highway + city mixed. And the highway was 70mph. I'm sure I could do better, but I don't feel too safe driving 55 in a 65. Rigs would be passing me, I'd be in people's blind spots, and I wouldn't be able to get around people who fluctuate speed to much or just drive plain crazy.

The city, however, is a different matter. I let people blast on by me and I don't care. Hah... sometimes I scare my girlfriend because she think's I'm going to plow into the car in front of me, coasting to a stop. Really what I'm doing is watching traffic ahead... the car always moves in time, and I slow down fewer times and use less energy to get the car to speed again. It's a science.



Within 20 years manual transmissions won't come in new cars.


There have been a ton of advancements in automatic gearboxes... I think the biggest indicator is the sheer number of gears.

My ST, I think has 3 + OD. But of course, nowadays you have automatics with 5... 6... even 7 gears!

Improvements in design probably will eclipse the manual transmission soon, simply by the fact that computers can control a shift more economically than the driver (both shift points and shift times).

19celica90
04-02-2008, 07:03 AM
i just cruise the geo in 3rd-4th around town and probably go 30ish? im really starting to just putt putt around town. I really wanna see how long a tank will last me! People are always passing me on the 2 lanes, its funny cuz they always get the red light and by time i come up it turns green and i just keep puttin along.

celicaGT90_05
04-02-2008, 07:07 AM
^ I do about 60 up to class and its a 55, I have people go past me all the time, I always catch up to them at the next red light lol a lot of times I have people really zippin along who i go past at a red light cuz Im taking my time.

Whats sad though is murg is probably right, and while I dont disagree about the advantages of an AT to an MT, MT's are just pure and simply fun to drive imo. I tend to shift about as fast as an AT so I dont really lose anything, but I have heard people take about 2 seconds to complete a shift

sheep
04-02-2008, 09:31 AM
around here if you time the lights right you can usually hit them green even in the middle of the day, if the next light your going to hit is still green do at least the speed limit if not a little more if its red do a little under the speed limit, light changes in time every time.

but i do agree even if you do the speed limit and let everyone blow by you and hit the red light, its still alot faster and easier on gas if you just hit the green light, if you get in the free lane alot of time you can go past the guy that just blew by you and you can see the frusteration on the guys face becuz you didnt have to wait for the light lol

and another thing that can save you gas in the summer time is turning your AC off when your around town and roll down your windows, i know in some places this isnt possible since its way too hot but around town where its under 40 in most places if you roll down your windows it will save you money, after 40-45 miles an hour tho its actually cheaper if you turn the AC on becuz of the drag/vacume effect that you get with the windows down...also a good thing with trucks is if you shut that middle window in the back all that does is make drag

and all this talk about how cheap a metro is makes me want to buy one, but i really have no use for 2 cars and i dont want to get rid of my celica, it gets decent MPG even if i drive "spirited", double what my jeep did and half the cost to fill it up

grayscale
04-02-2008, 10:40 AM
Diesel fuel just costs too much now. I wanted to find an older Benz diesel for a commuter car but not at $4.39 a gallon.
That's because too many assholes have gone out and bought giant diesel trucks that have absolutely no business owning them in the first place. I see so many damn redneck punk rich kids driving around in their jacked up diesel trucks with giant stacks sticking out of the beds acting like they're driving a sports car and billowing black smoke everywhere they go with there foot all they way in the gas. Fawking morons. I've even had several pull up at stop lights wanting to race. WTF?

85gtsblackman
04-02-2008, 12:07 PM
my scooby around town gets 23-25mpg, hwy 28-30

gt-s, havent tested yet, just got it running again, i was getting 22-29mpg

my truck gets 20-30mpg with a 2bbl but only weighs around 2400lbs

funny thing is the auto subaru legacy turbos only see like 19 city and 23 hwy

VikingJZ
04-02-2008, 01:03 PM
There are two stop lights in my town.

lol

MrWOT
04-02-2008, 05:48 PM
You want mileage? Route your air intake over your exhaust manifold and/or heat your fuel. Your power output will drop, but BSFC will drop considerably.

hobbie2k
04-02-2008, 06:12 PM
I like the Geo Metros (and btw, it's a Japanese car, so doesn't represent much of an American revolution), but they achieve their high-mileage with low weight, as opposed to more modern gas-misers that rely on technology to max out their mileage.

The problem with the low weight solution is it means giving up things like interior space (the Prius and Civic hybrids are both dramatically larger), equipment levels, comfort features, sound and vibration deadening, safety features, SUV/Truck crash compatibility (although why cars should have to be built to deal with trucks is beyond me, it should be the other way around), etc...things that most people (and government regulators) are not willing to give up.

sheep
04-02-2008, 09:43 PM
That's because too many assholes have gone out and bought giant diesel trucks that have absolutely no business owning them in the first place. I see so many damn redneck punk rich kids driving around in their jacked up diesel trucks with giant stacks sticking out of the beds acting like they're driving a sports car and billowing black smoke everywhere they go with there foot all they way in the gas. Fawking morons. I've even had several pull up at stop lights wanting to race. WTF?


we have the same problem here i used to work with a guy that had stacks on his power stroke. only thing is it was slow, didnt blow any black smoke, and he thought it was the fastest thing in the world. i raced him in my jeep and beat him, after that at the next light he wouldnt look at me

Ghosty
04-03-2008, 02:36 AM
That's because too many assholes have gone out and bought giant diesel trucks that have absolutely no business owning them in the first place. I see so many damn redneck punk rich kids driving around in their jacked up diesel trucks with giant stacks sticking out of the beds acting like they're driving a sports car and billowing black smoke everywhere they go with there foot all they way in the gas. Fawking morons. I've even had several pull up at stop lights wanting to race. WTF?

We have this issue, too. It's not rich kids, though -- it's farm kids around here.

They like to blast around traffic, cut people off and not use turn signals. They really think they're special. I really wonder what kind of security issues they have to drive such a big vehicle like that. None of them I've ever met seem to be particularly bright.

Something I think about is if there's any justification in court to be able to sue someone like that who plows into your vehicle. They have no business driving jacked-up vehicles... and they operate these beasts recklessly at the peril of other drivers on the road.

Maybe there should be a law where police can give an extra "Driving oversized vehicle beyond driver's safe control at risk to general public" kind of ticket they can just slap on when the person is obviously using the vehicle as a weapon. Make it a $500 fine, and then block them from registering any SUV or Truck if they are repeat offenders.


I like the Geo Metros (and btw, it's a Japanese car, so doesn't represent much of an American revolution), but they achieve their high-mileage with low weight, as opposed to more modern gas-misers that rely on technology to max out their mileage.

The problem with the low weight solution is it means giving up things like interior space (the Prius and Civic hybrids are both dramatically larger), equipment levels, comfort features, sound and vibration deadening, safety features, SUV/Truck crash compatibility (although why cars should have to be built to deal with trucks is beyond me, it should be the other way around), etc...things that most people (and government regulators) are not willing to give up.

That's true, but there must have been some advancement in crash design where vehicles can still shed weight and be effective in crashes. So I imagine the design could actually be improved

And maybe to promote people buying smaller, more reasonable vehicles, the government should add an extra tax on to large vehicles, on top of a gas guzzler tax. Or maybe a Kei car rebate like in Japan. (sorry if that seems too socialist for some people, but I think something needs to be done to make small cars more viable in the U.S.)

Mr Celica
04-03-2008, 03:02 AM
mazdaspeed 6 2.3L 4cyl turbo= 18-19 city ~22 highway

:(

at least i look cool at the pump

Cavanagh
04-03-2008, 03:53 AM
A metro though, is also a death trap.

METDeath
04-03-2008, 12:26 PM
Buy a metro... or a storm, and put in a roll cage!

hobbie2k
04-03-2008, 06:24 PM
That's true, but there must have been some advancement in crash design where vehicles can still shed weight and be effective in crashes. So I imagine the design could actually be improved

And maybe to promote people buying smaller, more reasonable vehicles, the government should add an extra tax on to large vehicles, on top of a gas guzzler tax. Or maybe a Kei car rebate like in Japan. (sorry if that seems too socialist for some people, but I think something needs to be done to make small cars more viable in the U.S.)

Oh yeah, they can always make a small car safer, the problem is that the easiest way to do so is to make a stronger frame and tie it to larger crush zones, and the easiest way to make a frame stronger is to make the metal thicker, or add more members, both of which add weight.

Another option is to move towards more advanced materials, that are either stronger (allowing you to use less), or are lighter (meaning less weight despite the added material). The problem there is expense, who wants to pay $25,000 for a car the size of a Metro (Mini Cooper S excluded)?