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View Full Version : Is Pontiac(GM in general) starting to build cars I would drive?



extremeskillz
03-25-2008, 01:06 PM
I've been checking out the the pontiac line of vehicles from GM and I must say i like them all. the g6, g8, solstice, and the new cars coming in 2009: g8 sport truck, g8 gxp, and solstice gxp coupe. The pricing isn't bad, right in the $30,000 mark for a lot of car.

http://www.pontiac.com/newcars/


I would consider the g8 but 2009 it will be offered with the manual transmission on the gxp version or the solstice in coupe form.


What do you guys think?

Luda
03-25-2008, 01:38 PM
they stopped making cars i would drive about 25-30 years about, with a couple exceptions about 20 years ago

burnyd
03-25-2008, 01:43 PM
yessss lsx ftw!

cs363
03-25-2008, 01:59 PM
No Pontiac is not building cars I would drive! However, they are doing a nice job of rebadging GM Australia (Holden) product and reselling it...... :)

(well at least as far as the G8 range goes, the rest of them I wouldn't get excited about.....)

extremeskillz
03-25-2008, 02:12 PM
In a way i agree with you they have been rebadging them but they are attractive cars. I would have to see how they do as far as reliablity. Im still liking the solstice and g8.

TurboGTS22
03-25-2008, 05:23 PM
I agree extreme. I think the Solstice is a pretty hot car and the gxp coupe will be pretty nice.

VikingJZ
03-25-2008, 05:47 PM
Because of family experiences I refuse to ever consider GM vehicles ever again. Case in point, the "American Revolution" has yet to produce cars that I feel are worthy of running over 200,000 miles on original equipment and getting a reputation for "running forever." I still feel that while Toyota MC has had recent set backs with recalls, that they are small compared to what GM has gone through within the last ten years or so.

The last cars from GM I would have considered purchasing now would be a late 80's IROC Z28 carb not EFI or a G-Body Monte SS black on black.

I like Mustangs and would own an early 80's GT 5.0 COUPE not hatch. I have never liked hatchbacks except for some recent cars.

As far as recent GM stuff is concerned, they do have a few cars that are eye catching such as the CTS-V. The Saturn Sky is cool looking, G8 Sedan is pretty cool, and the Buick Enclave is nice (My grandpa has owned his for a month and already had to replace an O2 sensor and the rear LED high mount brake light...lol). The Camaro concept is alright, but the Challenger looks tons better, save for the interior, as the Camaro has a nicer looking interior. We have yet to see the up close grade quality of the two side by side, but the newer Dodge interiors have been top notch as far as materials used. I feel though that the new Malibu is overrated. The front end looks similar to a Camry, and I think thats what GM was playing on--trying to sway people that liked the Camry into buying the Malibu. The recent attack commercials from GM for the Malibu are more extreme than any commercial I have ever seen and can compare closely with your state's District Representatives and Senator attack commercials---"he said she said" dilemma. They practically come out and say that the Camry and Accord are shit, which is obviously not true. Its stuff like that that makes me say, "Why do I want to buy a car from you?"

We will know in ten years if the new GM cars are reliable all around. If so, then okay go get one. I personally have pretended that GM no longer is an auto corporation.

Stuff Bob Lutz says annoys me too.

burnyd
03-25-2008, 06:05 PM
^^ Okay, Ill buy a g8 go 13s stock, have enough room for all kinds of groceries and manage to get 25mpg with my 360hp vehicle lol.

and lsx motors are proven reliable!

extremeskillz
03-25-2008, 06:13 PM
the new corrvette is doing 25 - 30 mpg with a v8 engine at 500hp. I think you could say GM is improving. I can contest to this as i drive a chevy express cargo van. Compare to the older 90's models (mine being a 2003 express) the engine is quieter and more fuel effient and more powerfull. 6.0 liter v8 doing 16 - 20mpg is what ive seen so far with it, depends if im carring a ton of stuff. ive done 20mpg once and been averaging 17mpg. Not bad for a big truck. Although i wish it was 5speed auto.

ciento44
03-25-2008, 06:13 PM
I would LOVE a GTO.

That will be all.

Well... Saturn Sky Redline makes my pants fit funny, too.

Colossus20v
03-25-2008, 06:20 PM
I can appreciate some of their cars and would not mind driving them, however, I probably would never own one myself. I read a lot of the consumer reports and look at reviews of vehicles. I also consider how much they cost, mpg, upkeep costs and so forth. So with all of that in mind, I usually will never even think about a gm car. I however am an open minded person and whenever they do get better(I could see this happening over the next 5-10 years) I would possibly consider them more.

celicaGT90_05
03-25-2008, 06:29 PM
that sport truck actually isnt new, thats a way old design that they have kept alive with Holden. It's name? The Ute. I fell in love with that thing when I first saw it, I want one really bad...but now they are gonna bring a version to the states and it kinda kills the glory of if I do actually get one down the road. On the other hand, it makes it easier to get one, but it wont be anything special now.

VikingJZ
03-25-2008, 06:45 PM
Yeah but Dan, I'm the kind of person that buys a car based on personal choice regardless of how fast it is. My SC is fast enough for me. I've never taken a car to the quarter, have only lined em up a few times, and onlyoccasionally toy with cars on the highways. Do I drive fast? Well fuck yeah I do! But point being that I'm in no hurry to make massive HP on my 2JZ. NA-T is planned...some day. Right now I just want to get the car looking really nice.


As far as reliable GM engines. I know that the 4.3 V6 is a good engine. The LSx engines are fairly reliable up to a point: Being low mileage reliability. Sure, you can make awesome numbers and parts are practically available at Dollar General. However, from the factory, its a typical GM engine that doesn't last more than 180k (at least that I have seen)....and thats pushing it.

sheep
03-25-2008, 11:44 PM
i have always kinda looked at the pontiac cars as sort of GMs cheap redneck line, not sure why lol along with the 80-90s cameros, but then again iv always been a mustang guy when it came to muscle cars

celicaGT90_05
03-25-2008, 11:50 PM
i have always kinda looked at the pontiac cars as sort of GMs cheap redneck line

you wunna take this outside? lol jk Im not sure why youd think that, thats more like chevy than anything else. Unless it came cuz of the trans am.

I saw a commercial for the damn thing today, kinda saddens me that the ute nothing special anymore

anthony560
03-26-2008, 01:22 AM
I year ago I rented a 2007 Pontiac G6 from hertz and thought it was a great car and good gas millage like 28-30 on their v6. It was quick, quiet, smooth, and handled quite nice.

KoreanJoey
03-26-2008, 02:26 AM
I really like the Solstice, and I think the Solstice coupe would make a basass racing car but... I don't think you'd be able to look out the back... it's bad already and looks like it'll be worse...

celicaGT90_05
03-26-2008, 02:27 AM
^ you ever drive a solstice? They really arent that bad of a car to drive if it were like a weekend thing. Now Im a big guy, and I felt that I fit in it just fine, I thought it was a pretty fun little car, but yes it is hard to see out the back, over the shoulder especially, the blind spots are absolutely horrible


I year ago I rented a 2007 Pontiac G6 from hertz and thought it was a great car and good gas millage like 28-30 on their v6. It was quick, quiet, smooth, and handled quite nice.

I use to drive the G6's all the time, and yes they are VERY quick, even the base models are. The only thing is the coupes are very hard to see out of, other than that they are nice cars that are very affordable

KoreanJoey
03-26-2008, 02:32 AM
That's what I mean, the blind spots on that car are horrible. And I noticed that in the time it took to get to and from the the pits to grid.

TheNefariousOne
03-26-2008, 04:00 AM
Yeah but Dan, I'm the kind of person that buys a car based on personal choice regardless of how fast it is. My SC is fast enough for me. I've never taken a car to the quarter, have only lined em up a few times, and onlyoccasionally toy with cars on the highways. Do I drive fast? Well fuck yeah I do! But point being that I'm in no hurry to make massive HP on my 2JZ. NA-T is planned...some day. Right now I just want to get the car looking really nice.


As far as reliable GM engines. I know that the 4.3 V6 is a good engine. The LSx engines are fairly reliable up to a point: Being low mileage reliability. Sure, you can make awesome numbers and parts are practically available at Dollar General. However, from the factory, its a typical GM engine that doesn't last more than 180k (at least that I have seen)....and thats pushing it.

Uhh, 180k is low mileage...?

I see GM regaining the number 1 spot in the coming years for two reasons: 1. Toyota is facing stiff competition not only from them, but from the vastly improved Korean companies (Kia, Hyundai)
2. GM is actually making some interesting cars. Toyota just...isn't. Might not matter to a lot of people in personal car decisions, but it has a big effect on image. A Corvette is a lot more appealing as a flagship car than a Camry, even if 90% of people can't/won't buy them.

VikingJZ
03-26-2008, 04:43 AM
180 is high mileage for any car but Toyotas can handle that and more. GM statistically cant.

I think its up in the air for who has the number one spot. GM is releasing all these V8 cars at a time when it should be fuel efficient stuff.

Toyota can sail on by making good cars that look nice and carry the rep.

I don't even care who has numero uno spot. I like the way Toyotas look and hate GM. Won't buy from GM ever. Thats it.

Murgatroy
03-26-2008, 05:17 AM
No Pontiac is not building cars I would drive! However, they are doing a nice job of rebadging GM Australia (Holden) product and reselling it...... :)

(well at least as far as the G8 range goes, the rest of them I wouldn't get excited about.....)
I remember when the new GTO first came out up here. I have always followed cars from down under, it seems that they still know how to make muscle cars. The Commadore, the Monaro, the Ute, yes, I said the Ute.

The Monaro, which is what our new GTO is based on, has always been a near cousin to our American going Muscle. If I am not too far mistaken, I think the original Monaro was a rebadged Nova, I could be mistake and it could have been an A body, like the Chevelle and LeMans (GTO) were. I have never seen one in person, only pictures.

The 'New' Pontiac G8 is a rebadged Holden again. A Commadore I believe? I am however thrilled to see a Ute, back in the GM stable. I have always been a HUGE fan of the El Camino, having owned a `69 when I was younger.

I am too lazy to go investigate right now, so I am not certain about all the model rebadging, but that is in fact all it is.

And as far as high mileage goes, I have driven Camaros with 200k on the ticker. They can do it. Not all of them, it really depends on how well they were taken care of. The Small Block Chevy is one of the most solid and inexpensive engines to work on. I swear by them. The 4.3L V6 is the same engine with two less cylinders. I have never owned one, but I assume they are as strong and reliable as their bigger brothers. I personally know of several SBCs going strong with well over 400k on them. That is not to say they haven't been opened up and massaged, but still, much much less money than opening a 5SFE and massaging it.

However the GM 60* V6 (Buick engines, 2.8T, 3.1, 3.8) are nothing but sorry pieces of shit. I have owned many of them, and they will blow the head before reaching 100k. And that is if you can keep it running to 100k.

sheep
03-26-2008, 06:36 AM
you wunna take this outside? lol jk Im not sure why youd think that, thats more like chevy than anything else. Unless it came cuz of the trans am.

I saw a commercial for the damn thing today, kinda saddens me that the ute nothing special anymore


yeah thats what i mean the firebird/trans ams, my stepmom has an a 89 firechickin, and a 01 or 02 trans am, i have driven both and even the firechickin with the smaller v6 and the automatic is a blast to drive, lots of GO but i probably wont ever own one

celicaGT90_05
03-26-2008, 08:54 AM
I remember when the new GTO first came out up here. I have always followed cars from down under, it seems that they still know how to make muscle cars. The Commadore, the Monaro, the Ute, yes, I said the Ute.

its ok, I've said it for more than half my posts so far lol Manaro's arent bad, but I prefer how they did the GTO better. While thinking about the Ute, Holden does also have a 4 door version that is named something completely different, I cant remember what its called but Im not sure if they are bringing that over as well. Also, its not that I'm not happy more people get to find out about this gorgeous truck, but I liked how it was something hardly anyone knew about that I could inform them about and maybe work up to get the actual Ute in a few years, but like I said on the other hand this makes it easier and probably a lot cheaper. Oh and I do believe you're right about the commodore bein the G8.

grayscale
03-26-2008, 09:51 AM
As sweet as I think the solstice is, personal experiences will keep me from ever getting within 10 feet of another pontiac.

grayscale
03-26-2008, 09:53 AM
The only new American cars that have caught my eye are the Camaro and the Challenger, particularly the Challenger.

cs363
03-26-2008, 10:56 AM
I remember when the new GTO first came out up here. I have always followed cars from down under, it seems that they still know how to make muscle cars. The Commadore, the Monaro, the Ute, yes, I said the Ute.

The Monaro, which is what our new GTO is based on, has always been a near cousin to our American going Muscle. If I am not too far mistaken, I think the original Monaro was a rebadged Nova, I could be mistake and it could have been an A body, like the Chevelle and LeMans (GTO) were. I have never seen one in person, only pictures.

The 'New' Pontiac G8 is a rebadged Holden again. A Commadore I believe? I am however thrilled to see a Ute, back in the GM stable. I have always been a HUGE fan of the El Camino, having owned a `69 when I was younger.

I am too lazy to go investigate right now, so I am not certain about all the model rebadging, but that is in fact all it is.

And as far as high mileage goes, I have driven Camaros with 200k on the ticker. They can do it. Not all of them, it really depends on how well they were taken care of. The Small Block Chevy is one of the most solid and inexpensive engines to work on. I swear by them. The 4.3L V6 is the same engine with two less cylinders. I have never owned one, but I assume they are as strong and reliable as their bigger brothers. I personally know of several SBCs going strong with well over 400k on them. That is not to say they haven't been opened up and massaged, but still, much much less money than opening a 5SFE and massaging it.

However the GM 60* V6 (Buick engines, 2.8T, 3.1, 3.8) are nothing but sorry pieces of shit. I have owned many of them, and they will blow the head before reaching 100k. And that is if you can keep it running to 100k.

The original Monaro (1968) was an Australian design (in so much as it was designed at Holden by an American designer!) it was not a rebadged American car, though it did owe a lot of its styling cues to the Oldsmobile Toronado. Other links were Chevy V8's and transmissions along with some suspension parts etc which were utilised from GM America.

The G8 is a rebadged and mildly facelifted VE (2008) Commodore sedan while the G8 sport truck is a similarly revised VE Commodore Utility (or Ute as they are more commonly known). The GTO is again a restyled and slightly changed VX/VY Monaro (2002-2005).
Interestingly Holden stated a while back that there wouldn't be a new shape (VE) Monaro/GTO, yet they recently showed a virtually production ready concept at the Melbourne Motorshow...... (pics here:
http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32839)
They also said they weren't going to export the ute though too.... ;)

Other interesting stuff that may come your way is the Commodore Sportwagon and possibly a high perf GTO(?) based on the HSV (Holden Special Vehicles) W427 prototype which is also shown in the above link. This features the 7 litre Corvette Z06 engine (hence the 427 tag).
The Commodore range uses either 6 litre LS series Chev V8's or the new Alloytec V6's (3.6 litre) which are quad cam VVTI engines. These are the same engines as used (in differing capacities) in late model Alfa Romeos ,Saab and a few other brands which purchase them from GM. IIRC Holden is one of the biggest producers of this engine for both domestic and worldwide use.

Holden dropped the old Buick based V6's back in mid-late 2004, along with the 5.7 V8.

Holdens have a pretty good reputation down here (NZ & Aussie) as being reliable and capable of achieving high mileages. However, as with every brand there are always exceptions and I think the long term reliability/high mileage cars tend to have owners that service them regularly and lok after them generally as with most cars. They certainly aren't perfect but tend to be big, honest cars - what you see is what you get. :)

extremeskillz
03-26-2008, 12:14 PM
The only new American cars that have caught my eye are the Camaro and the Challenger, particularly the Challenger.

Same here. the challenger the most.

cs363
03-26-2008, 10:02 PM
^^ X2 both are sexy cars and I've always liked Challengers :)

Trance4c
03-26-2008, 10:11 PM
Pontiac = Solstice would be fun +


No Pontiac is not building cars I would drive! However, they are doing a nice job of rebadging GM Australia (Holden) product and reselling it...... :)

=

What he said. Good

This thread, FTW, Pontiac FTW (disregarding all other models)

VikingJZ
03-26-2008, 10:22 PM
Well yeah Murg, you can make them last that long but you have to watch maintenance like a hawk and be so meticulous with them to keep them running that long. I would say the average lifespan for one is no more than 150k. I had a hardcore 302 fan tell me he's never see one surpass 200k on original parts.


Like I said, statistically when comparing Gm v. Toyota engines, Toyota has the rep and GM doesn't.

This kid I went to HS with that sucked his dad's wang to get a tricked out 97 Z28 has the rep for--along with being a complete doo bag--driving like a fucking moron, and supposedly blowing through numerous transmissions in his car from obvious neutral drops, pretend stick shift driving, and not beefing up driveline components other than minor engine internal upgrades. he's maybe pushing 400 but isn't a driver, just a step on the gas and tell you that his car is faster person.


With you murg...I'm sure you could even make a YUGO hit 25k miles..:laugh: