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View Full Version : probably ditching 5sfe for V8 power



Hookecho
03-07-2008, 02:17 AM
just about to finish building a smallblock 350. the stock motor was given to me and i decided to build it up with plans for putting it my 97 mazda b2300 pickup. the motor has the works having an extreme energy comp cam, springs, valves, roller rockers, edelbrock performer dual plane intake, edelbrock performer 650cfm carb, msd distributor, gear drive for the cam, new bottom end, .030 overbore, etc. this motor will be making alot of power.

anyway, i have been wanting to take on another challenging project to keep me busy. so i have been thinking about putting this motor and tranny in the celica. i've actually given it alot of study and thought. i've taken measurements and it will definately fit. there will be some fabbing as far as mounts, crossmembers, driveshaft, may have to cut and widen the center area between the floor pans. that is probably not gonna be too involved.

also, i'll be converting over to rwd. which won't be a problem considering i can source all the parts. i'll have to pull the gas tank and use a different fuel cell. definately going to have to build a crossbrase in the hatch and stiffen a couple areas of the body.

not sure about hood clearance yet. i'd have to actually get the motor in the bay and float it into the posistion that is going to gain me the best bell housing clearance. it's quite possible that i will have to cut the hood and put a scoop on it. haven't quite decided if i'm going to run the exhaust all the way back or not. that will be a decision i make in the end. depends mainly on available space.

i'll definately have to stiffen the front suspension to handle the extra weight.

i'm sure there will be other small issues i run into during the process, but that's expected.

so those are my plans. i'm not 100% set on doing this yet. i'm going to give it some more thought over the next couple weeks. i figure if a guy can stuff a twin turbo 1uzfe into a gt4 then a smallblock will fit no problem.

if i do this then i'll be parting my 5sfe to help fund it.

thoughts...

cs363
03-07-2008, 02:49 AM
Your crazy! lol I love it.....I vote you do it, but you'll have to do a detailed build thread so we can keep up with all the fun you are gonna have! :)

hemlocke
03-07-2008, 02:54 AM
Isn't that going to be some SERIOUS nose weight, though?

Cavanagh
03-07-2008, 03:03 AM
Do it! I WANT to see this done.... Cept with 1uzfe ;) J/k Nah, this would be cool if you did it.

Hookecho
03-07-2008, 11:51 AM
Isn't that going to be some SERIOUS nose weight, though?

nah, it's nothing springs and shocks can't take care of. i'll be seating the motor back as far as possible. according to my measurements, if i can mount the motor where i plan to, then that will put the front of the motor about 6in or so from the radiator. that's only rough measurements though so it could be more or less. there is some uncertainty with this. it's one of those things that i won't be 100% sure of what i'm getting into until i pull my motor and lower the 350 into the bay.

hemlocke
03-07-2008, 01:03 PM
Cool, and good luck with it.

Carolina91GT-S
03-07-2008, 02:12 PM
This would be cool. Some of the MR2 guys are going through the research to put Audi V6s and V8s into the MR2. It seems possible, but a lot of work.

ciento44
03-07-2008, 04:11 PM
I vote for this.

Motion passed.

Don't put the exhaust all the way back. Straight pipes and cut outs ftw.

wrongboy
03-07-2008, 07:17 PM
That will be AWESOME.

Would you sell your 5sfe whole?

Hookecho
03-07-2008, 09:12 PM
i would sell the head as one peice...bolt on horsepower. the rest is up for grabs.

tuner4life
03-07-2008, 11:01 PM
Sacrilege!!!! Putting a chevy rwd motor in a fwd toyota!!!!

I guess whatever floats your boat though. I am actually interested in seeing it done though.

Maybe I missed this the first time I read it, but what rear end setup are you gonna use, independent?, solid axle?, posi?

ciento44
03-07-2008, 11:05 PM
Ford 9" and a Chebby powerglide!!!

tuner4life
03-07-2008, 11:15 PM
Redneck! :laugh:

85gtsblackman
03-08-2008, 12:08 AM
psssssst just buy a 3rd gen off some old person for 500 and it will make things a million times easier.


but i would like to see a rwd 5th gen with a all aluminum v8

cms-gt4
03-08-2008, 12:24 AM
Do it. I doubt the nose weight would be more than an awd transfercase and 400lb T4 sitting over the front wheels.

revv_head
03-08-2008, 12:53 AM
Hookeecho if you part your 5S-FE i offer $450 for yor head!

Hookecho
03-08-2008, 01:18 AM
Sacrilege!!!! Putting a chevy rwd motor in a fwd toyota!!!!

I guess whatever floats your boat though. I am actually interested in seeing it done though.

Maybe I missed this the first time I read it, but what rear end setup are you gonna use, independent?, solid axle?, posi?

i'm going to use the gt4 rear differential, driveshafts, hubs, carriers, etc.

Hookecho
03-08-2008, 01:29 AM
Hookeecho if you part your 5S-FE i offer $450 for yor head!

i'll take that into consideration. you won't be getting the port & polished head though. i promised it to someone else. i'm going to put the cams in my old head. which was milled .040in and has a 3 angle valve job. i only put 2000 miles on that head before swaping out to the p&p'd head. you can port match it yourself if you want. send me a pm.

Hookecho
03-08-2008, 04:17 AM
i need someone to take a picture of the under carriage of their alltrac. i need to see how the exhaust is routed. on the gts it's routed down the center. i figured that on the alltrac that is where the driveshaft is.

grayscale
03-08-2008, 12:20 PM
Traitor! Burn the witch!
Good luck by the way. You might have to cut out your spare tire well also, I know the 185s is shallower than the 184 for some reason.

Kadett
03-08-2008, 12:34 PM
i'm going to use the gt4 rear differential, driveshafts, hubs, carriers, etc.

I don't think the GT4 rear diff is strong enough for that amount of hp/torque. Seen enough rear diff's shattered with 400-600 bhp ST185/205. With the 50/50 distribution that would mean a GT4 rear diff only can take between 200-300bhp. Hope you dont consider taken it to a 1/4 mile event with drag radials.

Hookecho
03-08-2008, 01:23 PM
it's not going to be a drag car. so the stress of launching won't be a factor. the guy who has the 1uzfe v8 in his gt4 is pushing 600hp with only the stock rear differential. i think the rear end is pretty stout. there's alway's that chance of breaking something though. gotta pay to play.

Hookecho
03-08-2008, 01:34 PM
don't think i mentioned it above. definately going to have to cut into the bottom of the firewall and tunnel it out to make more room for the tranny. that's no problem though. hacking away at sheet metal is the easy part.

andy
03-08-2008, 05:25 PM
vote go for it!!!!!!!!!! def pictures though.

celicatrd93
03-08-2008, 07:34 PM
yes like andy said so. go fot it!!!!! and yes we demand pics or ban...hehehe

Murgatroy
03-08-2008, 11:51 PM
Do it, I have made many posts about how this would be possible when folks ask.

You are going a different route than I personally would, as I would replace the front cradle and backhalf the car.

However, this is doable, and I have been saying that for a while.

Essentially it is just fab work.

I would like to see it done. Good luck! I will help if I can. SBCs are my expertise.

cms-gt4
03-08-2008, 11:58 PM
I thoughts the RWD v8 used a rear diff from a rwd car.

VikingJZ
03-09-2008, 05:44 PM
While I personally hate GM....this will be sweet and can't wait to see it.

Should have gone with the 1UZFE though...lol.

Hookecho
03-10-2008, 12:05 AM
Do it, I have made many posts about how this would be possible when folks ask.

You are going a different route than I personally would, as I would replace the front cradle and backhalf the car.

However, this is doable, and I have been saying that for a while.

Essentially it is just fab work.

I would like to see it done. Good luck! I will help if I can. SBCs are my expertise.

i would definately like to bounce ideas off you. given your backround in good old american muscle.

tell me about your ideas man.

Hookecho
03-10-2008, 12:28 AM
I thoughts the RWD v8 used a rear diff from a rwd car.

evrything that i have been able to find and read about his car has mentioned the use of the stock rear diff. there is actually not alot of info out there.

however, i'm exploring other options as well. i'm looking into the rear end from a 3rd gen right now. i'm going to try and find one at the junk yard so that i can get some measurements and pics to do some comparison study.

85gtsblackman
03-10-2008, 01:01 AM
pm'ed you back

btw forgot to tell you that the celica gts has a irs rear and the st gt has a solid axle, basicly i have the same rear end as a 82.5-86 celica supra

Hookecho
03-10-2008, 01:10 AM
yeah, didn't know that. definately a plus. if i can make it work then that would be ideal for me. it's easier and cheaper to source 3rd gen parts than it is to source gt4 parts.

goretro77
03-10-2008, 01:24 AM
I just noticed this thread! Wow thats a big change for a car - not so much the engine swap but going from fwd to rwd. If you decide to go for it, good luck and keep us updated. That will be a very interesting MAJOR mod to your Celica.

CriScO
03-10-2008, 07:53 AM
Personally if I were to take the time I'd do no less than an LT1, but that's mainly because I have a thing with carbs. Then again, I'd just do a 2JZ. :)

No matter, its your car so I'll shut up about that. Good luck! It'll be involved, take a lot of time and money, and in the end be incredibly awesome. Because really, how many people whould actually do it? Go forth and commit your badass blasphemy!

But I'll never understand why you'd put in all that power and not drag it. That's like building a spaceship to go to the corner store! :)

Hookecho
03-10-2008, 09:36 PM
i may take it to the strip. the only thing i worry about is catching the drag racing fever and spending all my money fixing what i break or trying to go faster. it's a sickness i tell you, a sickness! i really just want a challenging project to work on with the end result being a one of a kind vehicle that is a blast to drive.

juggernaut
03-10-2008, 10:05 PM
last fall i actually considered doing this. me and a friend were building a 400sb for his trans am, and we took some measurements and found you'd have something like 2" of clearance off the water pump, so electric fans would be necessary. i highly recommend sub-frame connectors. keep that body from twisting into a pretzel. theres one more thing i want to mention. you've got that 350 bored .030" over correct? why not throw in a 400 crank? that would make it a 383ci torque monster. anyways, if you do go thru with it you gotta take pics. can you say sticky? lol

Lonestag
03-10-2008, 10:30 PM
Man, I'd pee my pants if you went all the way through with this. (also maybe if I drank too much apple juice...)

I would love to see the write up. Not that I could ever pull somthing like this, but it would be a great read.

Hookecho
03-10-2008, 10:44 PM
last fall i actually considered doing this. me and a friend were building a 400sb for his trans am, and we took some measurements and found you'd have something like 2" of clearance off the water pump, so electric fans would be necessary. i highly recommend sub-frame connectors. keep that body from twisting into a pretzel. theres one more thing i want to mention. you've got that 350 bored .030" over correct? why not throw in a 400 crank? that would make it a 383ci torque monster. anyways, if you do go thru with it you gotta take pics. can you say sticky? lol

that's what is so awesome about the smallblock. you can so many different directions with one. you can also make a crapload of hp on stock internals and still have the reliability. everything is cheap for 350's. everything has been done, tried, and test to the limits with them also. it takes alot of the guess work out of a good build.

CriScO
03-11-2008, 04:14 AM
it's a sickness i tell you, a sickness!

Touché... :)

burnyd
03-11-2008, 11:13 PM
my question to you is how much fabrication work have you done?

Hookecho
03-11-2008, 11:21 PM
12+ years of custom metal fab work to include, but limited to sheet metal, black iron, aluminum, SS, copper, etc. 8 years of welding to go along with it. it's my career trade of choice. i have a huge shop next to my house where i do this at along with my automotive endeavors. the only thing that limits me is the sky.

burnyd
03-11-2008, 11:27 PM
mkkaaay well gl to you I think your better off just buying a 240 for the power to weight ratio. I have though about lsx'ing the alltrac but honestly looks too hard and not mearly enough room. Also clearing the stearing... I just see it as a really hard project.....Its not impossible I just think youll have some good amount of money into it and who knows?

Hookecho
03-12-2008, 12:25 AM
it will be time consuming for sure. i've planned it out and and set the project up in 3 stages. i'm in no hurry, and this is nothing new for me. it's all about doing something cool.

Murgatroy
03-12-2008, 03:58 AM
My suggestion would be backhalving.

You can get a kit including everything but the 3rd Member for ~$3k, 4 link, frame rails, custom springs to the ratio you desire. Summit and Jegs both sell kits. Currie can hook you up with a 3rd member, cut to your specs, complete with axles and diff for around $2k. Sure this isn't exactly cheap, but it will be solid, tired and true and basically a drop in set.

You will still need panels.

I have been working this out in my head for years, and I would basically go with a doorslammer using the Celica body. Everything under the sheet metal would essentially be a Mustang II.

It might not be the most 'true' Toyota out there, but the parts and the combination thereof is tried and true.

Using a Jegster Front cradle, compete with steering box and rack and pinion (Mustang II) they sell it complete hub to hub. Fabricate a new firewall and fender/radiator mounts and you have your front done. Fabricate a new floor pan, tranny tunnel and wheel tubs, run a tube chassis through to connect to the rear frame rails I would go with at minimum a 6-point cage.

With some finesse you would be able to keep most of the front Celica interior, including the dash (new gauges of course.) The front seats with new mounts, the rear would be gone most likely.

I am sure there are other ways to do it, but having backhalved cars before and building 2nd Gen F-bodies from nearly the ground up (including new front subframes) this would be the method I would use. It wouldn't be cheap, without pricing nickel and dime parts I think my budget (for new, not bargain hunting) was near $8500-$10k.

Since you already have a warmed over SBC to drop in, a chunk of your budget is taken care of there.

I think you mentioned, but I can't recall, what are the specs on the motor? 2 bolt or 4? What year block? Older than `79 had a two piece rear main seal, newer had one piece. The dipstick is also on a different side depending. `87+ had a factory roller cam.

Personally I prefer a carb. You can retrofit a carb motor into ANYTHING, no wiring issues whatsoever. Much easier that fabricating a new harness to utilize your new EFI ECU.

Also, using a drop in front cradle you won't run into major issues with headers either, most likely a set of Nova/Camaro/G-Body headers will fit with little issues.

Hookecho
03-12-2008, 10:03 PM
had a freind tell me he saw a 96 camaro for sale on the cheapness this morning. so i rode out to look at it with him this afternoon. yeah, it was cheap allright. simply because it had no motor and tranny. so now i am thinking about buying this car to put the motor in. i love the way that generation is styled.

burnyd
03-12-2008, 10:11 PM
would be alot easier than a celica...

grayscale
03-12-2008, 10:23 PM
Can you say indecisive? I'm gonna get you one of those posters from the '80s that had like ten different exotic cars in a huge ass garage and at the bottom it said "Decisions, Decisions, Decisions...":bigthumbu

Hookecho
03-12-2008, 10:23 PM
indeed

juggernaut
03-13-2008, 02:53 AM
that's what is so awesome about the smallblock. you can so many different directions with one. you can also make a crapload of hp on stock internals and still have the reliability. everything is cheap for 350's. everything has been done, tried, and test to the limits with them also. it takes alot of the guess work out of a good build.
exactly... now if i was you, id buy that camaro and throw the 350 in that. throw a 5 speed in it and have some fun. i think you should keep your celi mainly because (going off your signature) its completely built up as it is. youve got the head work and nos, so why mess with a good thing? but i still think a small block celica would tear pavement everywhere it went. honda ricers would run in fear. not only that, it would smoke anythig on the road that had a sb in it. camaros, firebirds, mustangs, name it. it wouldnt stand a chance

Murgatroy
03-13-2008, 08:44 AM
I have a lead on a `95 Camaro, LT1, some wiring gremlins. I could get it for a couple of bills. I haven't decided yet. I was never a huge fan of a 4th Gen F-Body.

Hookecho
03-13-2008, 10:59 AM
if you don't want it let me know. i'll send you the money to buy it for me.