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Snafu
02-23-2005, 07:23 PM
So, I've sent a few emails to some of the uberdata/turbo edit guys, wondering if we could get any information from them, or even have them kinda help with our struggle. What information do you guys have that might be useful. I don't know what years toyota used OBD0 OBD1 or OBD2.

-Colin

bboykin
02-24-2005, 12:55 PM
I'm in the same boat you are. I have been researching this a lot. I have found lots of info when I search from the electronics point of view. Most ECU's seem ot be using an EPROM called a 27C256 or 27C512. ODB1 is used up to 1991, then its ODB2. I have found plenty of EPROM programmers that can work with the chip mentioned above but since I have never done EPROM programming I am not sure what software can read the contents of the EPROM, at least in a more human readable form. The EPROMs used in ECU's should be readable by almost any EPROM grogrammer but I am not sure about the form of the code. Anyone have any experience programming any ECU?

ChrisD
02-24-2005, 02:47 PM
I'm in the same boat you are. I have been researching this a lot. I have found lots of info when I search from the electronics point of view. Most ECU's seem ot be using an EPROM called a 27C256 or 27C512. ODB1 is used up to 1991, then its ODB2. I have found plenty of EPROM programmers that can work with the chip mentioned above but since I have never done EPROM programming I am not sure what software can read the contents of the EPROM, at least in a more human readable form. The EPROMs used in ECU's should be readable by almost any EPROM grogrammer but I am not sure about the form of the code. Anyone have any experience programming any ECU?

All I know is that it is in hexadecimal. I have seen the TECHTOM program running in person on a computer, however I dont know any specifics about it.

Snafu
02-24-2005, 03:22 PM
Let's get some more info on that TECHTOM program.

I'll email the guys at pgmfi.org, they're the ones who developed all this TurboEdit stuff. I'll keep you updated.

-Colin

Luni
02-24-2005, 03:22 PM
OBDII wasnt used until 1995 sometime.

Any year up till then is OBDI

presure2
02-24-2005, 04:05 PM
Luni OBDII wasnt used until 1995 sometime.
ummm 1994..

EvilSpeeder
02-24-2005, 05:03 PM
ummm 1994..

ummm, no. OBDII wasn't official until 96. The 94 celicas definitely do not have it and I'm 99% sure that the 95 doesn't either.

nuclearhappines
02-24-2005, 06:39 PM
Inside the head of the 5sfe ecu

Today i recieved the 5sfe ecu from clay (dear clay, addressing a package to 'nuke' may not be the best idea as far as the gov't agencies are concerned :p )

1- There is no socketed EEPROM on the 5sfe ecu. One of these chips might be a PROM but it's not socketed (makes things alittle harder than just pull read and swap)... we'd have to desloder and possibly come up with a good daughter card.

2- Since this ECU was built in japan all the parts here are marked D or ND (i assume that means they are all denso/ nippon denso) so the part numbers you mentioned earlier don't correspond (yet) (i'm sure they're a desno equivelant of some of the stuff you mentioned)

3- The numbers that appear on the chips are:

ND: MH180
11J29C

D: 151821-0020
943CB

D: HC284
12J11

ND: MH280
11J01A

ND: SE077
12J14

and finally the part that seems to be the brains of the operation

D: 151802-0471
7463-0273
9k2524

I could probably guess what part is what but for now i'm going to try and figure out what these parts are ... anyone with info on that i would much appreciate it.

oh yeah, the clock crystal ... 12.0T9K4

edit: this info pertains to a 1st generation (OBD-i) 5sfe ecu
I assume this will be the easiest to figure out before we move on to 3sgte / obd2 stuff


-nuke

Snafu
02-24-2005, 07:12 PM
Could we possibly add a socket to it? I know I put one in the PCB on the megasquirt.

Playfortoday
02-24-2005, 08:02 PM
According to Illinois Government Regulated Emmisions Testing, all vehicles 1996 and up had OBDII, and you know they spent $567,000 to make sure.

Playfortoday
02-24-2005, 08:06 PM
One more thing to add to the cause. I have an OBDI 1991 Honda CRX. I did a chip swap which involved using solder wick to remove the old and placing in the new chip. I think if we get anywhere, this will be the only way.

Trance4c
02-24-2005, 09:54 PM
Inside the head of the 5sfe ecu

Today i recieved the 5sfe ecu from clay (dear clay, addressing a package to 'nuke' may not be the best idea as far as the gov't agencies are concerned :p )


-nuke

bwahahaha! Ya, I was curious if anyone would do anything about it hahahaha! :slap:

Snafu
02-25-2005, 04:12 AM
One more thing to add to the cause. I have an OBDI 1991 Honda CRX. I did a chip swap which involved using solder wick to remove the old and placing in the new chip. I think if we get anywhere, this will be the only way.

Did you use Uberdata? or what did you use?

nuclearhappines
02-25-2005, 05:41 AM
this is going to be alot harder than i thought

presure2
02-25-2005, 12:39 PM
yup i was wrong, i ment to put obdI ..lol whoops :slap:

Snafu
02-25-2005, 07:25 PM
http://www.pgmfi.org/twiki/bin/view/Library/IntroductionToECUChipping

I was reading on there, and I saw the numbers 27256, which is very similar to the 27C256 that bboykin was talking about.

Why don't we try this -

Find out if we can chip the Toyota ecu in the same way that the Honda guys can, see if we share any similar hardware. Develope a ROM using Uberdata, and Chip the ecu. Wonder if it would work...

Snafu
02-25-2005, 07:27 PM
Nuke- are there any open sockets?

nuclearhappines
02-26-2005, 07:08 PM
There are no sockets...and this is not going to be anything like the honda setup if i undesrtand this correctly...

i did a bit of reading online the other day... it seems that denso has custom chips made based on the 68hc11. However this has 42 pins so it's none of the commercially available hc11s... the use extra pins to add extra a/d's or extra functionality...

if i understand this correctly, these types of chips have the ROM and EEPROM built into them so i can't just pull this chip, socket the board and put the chip on a commercial reader...

it would be more like figuring out the I/O on the chip and building a custom reader to get to the prom inside... of course since there's documentation on it, it may take a while ... i'm doing some board tracing ...lol ...

i can tell you a few things ... water temperature and air temperature corrections on the 5sfe ecu probably have the same table...

it looks like THA and THW get weighted by different resistor values and then connected to the same pin on this other chip (same chip that hte o2 signal runs to at the moment) ...

gonna be a bit slow maybe..

anyone have alink to a good honda ecu sight so i can see pics of their board ?

-nuke

Luni
02-26-2005, 07:10 PM
ummm, no. OBDII wasn't official until 96. The 94 celicas definitely do not have it and I'm 99% sure that the 95 doesn't either.

Yeah for sure.

I meant in 1995 sometime because In 1995 they were releasing the 1996 models.

My 1995 Eclipse was OBD1.

Luni
02-26-2005, 07:11 PM
yup i was wrong, i ment to put obdI ..lol whoops :slap:

Did you mean to say WAS and not WASNT too lol?

Snafu
02-27-2005, 04:07 AM
PGMFI.ORG

They're the guys that do Turboedit/Uberdata. Check those out.

galcrazi
02-27-2005, 11:14 AM
I dont know if you guyz are familiar with DTV / DISH N and how you can wipe and rewrite cable cards. Im sure there are some of us on here who have programmers ;-). Anywho... cable cards are written with hex code, and the programs to rip, clean, and rewrite, even program your OWN hex code are available for free download. The programmer is a simple board using usb connection and the software is very basic. I imagine Conrad or someone with equal experience could modify the card reader (only 1 circuit board) to mate up to and ecu plug =). The reader can pull hex code off of anything so long as you can physically mate it up and "flash" (replace a new atmel on the reader which means someone would have to write it). Software would require some tweaking but the basic platform is there. Just a fantasy thought for down the road.

presure2
02-27-2005, 01:51 PM
Did you mean to say WAS and not WASNT too lol?
hhahha...i dont know WHAT the hell i was thinking...lol massive brain fart or somthin.. :slap:

sgtmayhem4
03-02-2005, 11:46 PM
found this
http://www.wctoyotasport.com/Parts/ELP/ecu5EFE.htm

and this, i dont understand it but may be useful to someone
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h25.pdf

42qn30
03-08-2005, 03:56 PM
One more thing to add to the cause. I have an OBDI 1991 Honda CRX. I did a chip swap which involved using solder wick to remove the old and placing in the new chip. I think if we get anywhere, this will be the only way.

wick is a good method but i do believe that you can get an add-on to your soldering iron. this thing makes your soldering iron like its on skis. it looks like a Y that heaats up the solder along both rows of the IC. It might be possible to damage the IC in the process but i might make things a lot faster and easier.

here are a some links to wjat im talking about:

Home Made desoldering tool (http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/3220/PCB_remov.html)

Good desoldering IC tips here (http://www.goot.co.jp/ENGLISH/catalog/INDUSTRIAL/DI_FD_FQ/DI_FD_FQ.html)

ATSAaron
03-18-2005, 04:01 AM
http://atsracing.net/atstunedrom.htm

Aaron

Freeze
03-18-2005, 04:49 AM
What ECU are they talking about there? 'Cause my rev limiter definately isn't at 7200...

presure2
03-18-2005, 11:50 AM
thats a 3s ecu that arron linked to..

Nemesis3S-GTE
03-19-2005, 01:36 PM
Aaron, first I'd like to say that I am really happy you are offering the tuned ROMs for these engines. The only reason that I am not as interested in this as I should be is the lack of personal tuning. Every engine is different, which means every car needs different ECU tuning. I want to be able to adjust the ECU as I change things on the car and modify parts more and more. That being said, if you could offer a package that included the upgraded ECU and its respective tuning software, I would definately be in the market. There are good benefits to retaining the Toyota ECU, but in stock form we all know it is incredibly weak. I don't know if there is anything keeping you from offering this, but I think that it is the solution that we are looking for here in this thread.

Playfortoday
03-19-2005, 08:33 PM
Aaron, I am really interested, but like other said above, my mod list is forever changing, so maybe offering an upgrade option would be good. For example, offer a one time buy in, and a deeply discounted update program. The other thing that caught my eye is that the price is the same, eventhough I will never be around your shop for personal tuning. Maybe the price can be lower for those of us who live to far to take advantage of your shops facilities.

Thanks again for be a sponsor for our site. (PS, Any deeper discounting for Administrators of the site? LOL. :D )

ATSAaron
03-20-2005, 03:40 PM
That being said, if you could offer a package that included the upgraded ECU and its respective tuning software, I would definately be in the market. There are good benefits to retaining the Toyota ECU, but in stock form we all know it is incredibly weak. I don't know if there is anything keeping you from offering this, but I think that it is the solution that we are looking for here in this thread.

Sorry, but I can not offer software with my ECU's. Techtom is the only source for the MAPS so even if I designed something like Hondata you would still need to go through Techtom to get a stock map. Plus I have hundreds of hours of research in and hundreds of dyno pulls in my own product.. The techtom tuning is nothing like tuning a stand alone. You can't press F1 for a help file, there is no X or Y axis designations. It was all learned by careful trial and error. There learning curve is steep.

Honestly if you are really looking to tune your car and are certain enough that you have the know how and ability then you should look into a stand alone ECU.

The ATS Tuned Rom is intended for customers who are looking for a plug-n-play no hassle solution, not something that is end user adjustable.

There is however, an upgrade program avalable. We will retune your ATS to your new modifications for $200. We keep careful records of the ECU's that are shipped to each customer and can re-examine the file at any time to see if a different tune or changes might be necessary.

If you order a tuned ECU for a stock car we don't stop the maps at 200hp. We build in maps all the way to 275rwhp (for 440cc cars) based on your idnicated tuning path. There are some exceptions to this; for example I had to back off the timing more that I normally do on the above stock 93T MR2 because the stock exhaust was choking it up bad enough that the aditional heat was causing a slight amount of knock. If you add a part and are not sure it will be 100% compatible then just contact us.

Aaron

Nemesis3S-GTE
03-20-2005, 09:10 PM
Thanks Aaron for clearing that up. I didn't think it would be feasible but I have wondered if this was a possibility for a while.

Dlux4life
03-21-2005, 02:31 PM
This is probably not worth it in the long run but it is another possability so i thought i would let you know about it. There isnt any detail given on the site about any of the specfic tuning changes made, but im sure we could find out through the company.

Jun Sport Computer (http://www.raretrick.com/index.asp?cat=1&Page=index.asp&Display=Yes&Back=Listings&ProductsID=6126)

Playfortoday
03-21-2005, 02:42 PM
Aaron can you please address the following:

The price is the same, eventhough I will never be around your shop for personal tuning. Maybe the price can be lower for those of us who live too far to take advantage of your shops facilities?

ATSAaron
03-22-2005, 02:16 AM
Ummm. No. Think of it as the people who are local are doing us a favor by letting us learn on their cars.

Aaron

Playfortoday
03-22-2005, 01:44 PM
That is a very valid point. Maybe you should mention that upfront, because it is a very valid question. Thanks again for be such a huge help to the 3sgte community. ;)

CelicaGTS94
10-21-2005, 05:03 PM
Its great to see that ppl are taking the time to come out with something for us 5th and 6th gen celica's... besides the intake and exhaust upgrades, there isn't much available for these cars!! maybe a turbo, but what to use for engine managment? It would be nice if we could just chip our cars like Honda guys can so easily... thats probably why there are 100 million honda's on the road, and only a hand full of done celica's!! I kow that jet offers a chip for these ecu's! it would be nice to know the process and the map's they use!! I am just wonderig how much the 3sgte and the 5sfe ecu have in common? I know one ecu is MAP, and the other is MAF, but besides that they have the same # pins!! anyway we can inter-change a harness and ecu for running a turbo on a 5sfe!! I have already tried... the turbo was bad, and engine managment was not there!!

yotas4life
03-17-2006, 08:35 PM
5sfe is map and 3s-gte is AFM^

you guys ever look into megasquirt?

crazy_russian
10-19-2006, 04:57 AM
I've got a bunch of info on the CPU have a disassembler. Have you figured out what some of the other chips there do? Which chip do all the analog signals go to?

http://toyota.kgbconsulting.ca

fiveSFE
01-06-2007, 08:48 PM
sorry to bring this up from the dead, but i have been looking into similar things for my dsm ecu.

there is a device called an ostrich, its an eprom emulator, desolder ur eprom in the ecu, put this badboy in plug in the usb cored and you can make changes to the hex off a computer in real time.

now there are programs liek uberdata and what not, they will most likly not work for anything besides honda ecu's. I did find a program called tunerpro which is meant to be a universal program, for the non-cool version its free, then they have a 30 dollar version which has all kind of cool features like dataloggign and such. '

i dont know if this would be usefull to you guys, but i am definatly going this route on my dsm, the good thing is, its really cheap for the setup(under 200 dollars)

ciento44
01-06-2007, 10:05 PM
Damn Hondas and DSMs...

i LOVE Krome/Crome however you spell it, for Hondas. Cheap, makes a pretty large difference, too.

If there was something that i knew of that would do something similar for our cars, i would be all over it in a heartbeat.

BlueDragon
01-09-2007, 09:44 PM
The never ending story of "IF"s on these cars is gettin old, little honda dorks have conquered this and were still in the dark ages why god why.... Good luck guys I hope you have not given up yet.

2kSnakEater
01-09-2007, 10:12 PM
holy crap, $800 for a re-tune, Im glad Iv got the Trans Am.

Playfortoday
01-10-2007, 02:04 PM
Trans Am :blahblah: Trans Am :blahblah: Trans Am :blahblah: Trans Am :blahblah: Trans Am :blahblah: Trans Am :blahblah: Trans Am :blahblah: Trans Am :blahblah: Trans Am :blahblah: Trans Am :blahblah: Trans Am :blahblah: Trans Am :blahblah: Trans Am :blahblah:

It definitely would be nice to see something on this.:D

2kSnakEater
01-10-2007, 02:20 PM
I agree with Play, it would be nice to see the prices of a re-flash or tune go down into the $300 range. without having to dish out $2,000 on a stand alone.


How about using another car's ecu but tune it to run the 3sgte? The 99-02 F-body ecu is incredible for tuning, using LS1 edit I think you should be able to tune for a 4cyl, you just have to find out witch pins you would need and witch pins you wouldnt.