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Tecker184
01-24-2008, 04:16 PM
I was wondering if any1 has tried putting any of the beams 3s-ge heads on a 3s-gte block with success. If its possible and what not

donteatbugs
01-25-2008, 01:11 AM
i dont think all the ports would match up, besides it would just be cheaper to put low compression forgeies in a beams block. plus you would have the vvti issue and i dont think it has a timing belt either.

DarkSideCelica
01-25-2008, 01:20 AM
NA head on a turbo block... hhm... dun think it's gonna be very efficient.. tht's kinda like stuck in the middle

19celica90
01-25-2008, 05:03 AM
i've always wondered this too. Itd be exactly like integras who have a non vtec b18b1 who want vtec so they swap out heads, put in the selenoid and do a lil wire'n and come out with a ls-vtec. I'd think the water lines and all would match up. I think the vvt-i would really help out the 3s getting some more air in and improving its overall output. but like if donteatbugs statement bout it not having a timing belt, well then, it'd be pretty hard to do it

90CelicaST
01-25-2008, 05:42 AM
Heh, I think the LS/VTEC conversions are for us 4A guys ;) 4AGE 20v head(vvt) + 7AFE block(1.8L) = 7AGE 20v (ls/vtec, 'A' series toyota style)

KoreanJoey
01-25-2008, 07:43 AM
NA head on a turbo block... hhm... dun think it's gonna be very efficient.. tht's kinda like stuck in the middle

Not even remotely true... as a general rule the NA cars have higher lift and higher duration cams which can be a plus for BUILDING a turbo car. Problem is you sacrifice at low end... it's all a matter of give and take.

Conrad_Turbo
01-25-2008, 03:10 PM
Higher duration isn't necessarily a good thing for a forced induction engine, too much overlap will blow the charge air/fuel mixture right through the cylinder before the exhaust valve closes. Higher lift however is.

MrWOT
01-25-2008, 07:16 PM
Provided that you even have a low enough backpressure that you aren't letting reversion in ;)

Tecker184
01-26-2008, 12:12 AM
Well i have been researching this and Wikipedia has info on it that proves to very interesting. The black top came with titanium vavles and dual VVT-i. The VVT system is a 2-stage hydraulically controlled cam phasing system. VVT-i varies the timing of the intake valves by adjusting the relationship between the camshaft drive belt and intake camshaft. Engine oil pressure is applied to an actuator to adjust the camshaft position. VVT-i controls the cam timing so you get overlap when you need it. I dont think you have to wire up anything seeing how its oil pressure controlled. Beams 3g-ge's have a timimg belt. I think it would deffly create more power just need to find out if it will bolt up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3S-GE

Tecker184
01-26-2008, 12:14 AM
also a direct qote from wikipedia


Specifications

These are specific to all 3S-G engines, thus compression ratios and camshafts specifications are not included.

Capacity: 1998 cc (121.9 ci)
Bore x Stroke: 86 x 86 mm (3.39 x 3.39 in)
Intake Valve Diameter: 33.5 mm (1.32 in)
Exhaust Valve Diameter: 29.0 mm (1.14 in)
Included Valve Angle: 44.5 degrees

alltracman78
01-26-2008, 12:44 AM
This is something I have considered for a while, I just havn't had a chance at a first hand look of a VVTi 3S yet.

All VVT-i is is a way to adjust valve timing on the fly.
You need an ECU to control it, it's not an on/off control.
It won't really gain any total HP [over comparable aftermarket cams with overlap like HKS], it will improve driveability, give you more low end power from lack of overlap at low RPMs, improve gas mileage, and on US spec cars [no VVT-i 3SGE] it acts as the EGR.
However, there is no lift involved, you only have 1 cam lobe per valve.

VVT-i L has the lift [second cam lobe], but this as well won't net increased total HP either.

Interesting idea, but complicated.

Tecker184
01-26-2008, 02:46 AM
Well either way im gonna do some more research and see if it can be done also something that i may be investing in the near future im workin on purchasing a GT-S and if i do im gonna get the beams black top and put it in for reliability

v8killer
01-26-2008, 05:25 PM
I looked into this too, the dual vvt-i can make more power by optimising cam timing through the rev range, the altezza was the only black top, the real gain is drivdability and economy with large cam profile, it fits the turbo block, the ports are smaller it might not fit in the engine bay though, the computer controls the oil psi to the gears, and its too rare and expensive. i would have done this if not for how much it would cost to do it :(

celica9303
01-29-2008, 06:21 PM
isnt the blacktop rwd motor? and the red top fwd? im looking at the red top for my swap vs the 3sgte btw twhat trans is used with this swap?