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View Full Version : Celica GT to a 4wd



Uncrck2
12-19-2007, 12:09 AM
So i have a 1990 celica gt and i want to pretty much rebuild it comletly but i want to swap in a 3sgte and make it 4wd at the same time so its an alltrac. Does any one know any one who has done it and how much custom work an i lookin at cuz i know that the frame is the same the only differeces are the engine drive train and braking and suspention but from my reading i know the 3sgte swap is a strait drop no problem but is the drive train change up to 4wd going to bolt right on and maybe a little custom along with the front suspention and the rear suspention and all the stuff im guessing its cv joints havent really read up so some help from any one with an alltrac to help me out and people who have seen this done.

Mr Celica
12-19-2007, 12:46 AM
search, my friend, its been discussed. and use periods and commas.

turning your fwd celica into an alltrac would be a complete waste of money in my opinion. the custom fabrication would be a tremendous amount of work. you even have to relocate your gas tank to the rear of the car and bumb the trunk floor up so it fits.

with the money you would spend starting this swap, (i say start because a front clip is already at least $2k, thats not including the drive shaft, differential, etc), you would have a good start to put as a down payment, or a savings account for a nice 5th gen alltrac for ~$7-10k tops.

i don't know of anyone who has even attempted to do this, but it has been discussed MANY times. use the search bar in the top right corner of the c-tech page.

celicatrd93
12-19-2007, 01:01 AM
possible but much more easy to save money and grab a all-trac.

Gary
12-19-2007, 04:26 AM
RWD conversion would be more interesting.

Barry
12-19-2007, 01:57 PM
Yeah man, thats a bad idea. You dont have nearly the skill to complete the swap. Your better off buying an all-trac to start with, and sell yoiur car to get some money back

CrazyAchmed
12-19-2007, 08:42 PM
RWD conversion would be more interesting.

A little off topic, but...

Damn the parts for a RWD conversion are expensive(I priced them out not too long ago). And only available in Australia, so you get to put the export/shipping fees all in aswell.

And on topic.

Go buy an Alltrac. From everything I have read/researched...there have been only two attempts at this and only 1 really ever worked(and that was only barely).

StormyBklyn
12-19-2007, 09:52 PM
Hey, anybody asks this, you can always point them to the price tag of the Pikes Peak Ultimate 7th Gen Celica. That will give them an idea of how much it's going to cost. They took a FWD, made it AWD and dropped a 3SGTE in it. There you go, a working conversion.

(BTW, the price tag on that was around $300K)

Uncrck2
12-20-2007, 12:57 AM
Yeah man, thats a bad idea. You dont have nearly the skill to complete the swap. Your better off buying an all-trac to start with, and sell yoiur car to get some money back
Barry u dont even know wat ur talking about u have an automatic beretta i know way more about my car than u know about ur's so stop big wheelin it in class chump

nyana107
12-20-2007, 04:34 AM
A little off topic, but...

Damn the parts for a RWD conversion are expensive(I priced them out not too long ago). And only available in Australia, so you get to put the export/shipping fees all in aswell.

And on topic.

Go buy an Alltrac. From everything I have read/researched...there have been only two attempts at this and only 1 really ever worked(and that was only barely).

by any chance do you have the link to the aussie website that has the FWD to RWD conversion?

GhostSTX
12-20-2007, 05:28 AM
hehe, i have also though bout this conversion... then i saw tha time, money, possible complications... i decided to just make a kick ass celica :P

Murgatroy
12-20-2007, 12:11 PM
A little off topic, but...

Damn the parts for a RWD conversion are expensive(I priced them out not too long ago). And only available in Australia, so you get to put the export/shipping fees all in aswell. If you are talking about a premade kit, I hadn't heard of that. However, I have sourced parts, off the shelf mind you, from Summit and Jegs to complete backhalf conversions on several cars. Even after the cost of a 3rd member, wheel tubs and fabrication, we barely broke $5k. A premade kit for the Celica FF chassis would simplify it greatly. However I still wouldn't trust any power to it without a ~10 point cage.

Did the kit include a front cradle? That is where things start to get complicated with price in my plan. I planned on modifying a Mustang or Nova front clip for a RWD V8. Buy the time I rehang all the body panels it would be near another $5k.

I have given this much thought, but I am nowhere near the doing stage.


And on topic.

Go buy an Alltrac. From everything I have read/researched...there have been only two attempts at this and only 1 really ever worked(and that was only barely).
:stupid:
I would personally buy an Alltrac if 4WD is your final goal. I have seen this project started 4 or five times. I only know of one personally that ever made it, it was a ST205 4WD conversion. I think it resides in Colorado now. I think it cost $60k+ to complete by a professional shop. I don't know what it sold for.

Gary
12-20-2007, 08:35 PM
In the US, there are 2 6th gen Celicas with AWD conversion.
One in CO, and one in MA.
These is a 5th gen Celica with AWD conversion somewhere in Pacific NW.
I think the owner is a member here.

CrazyAchmed
12-26-2007, 09:33 PM
There is no pre-made kit.

I picked up a transmisson from an 85 Celica W58 Bellhousing code and tried to bolt it to a 3SGTE block. No dice. You need a W55 bellhousing to do it(only available in Austraila.) Or you can go get the tranny from the 99 Lexus Altezza(only available from Japan) For my budget it was not an option(5k Total Chassis build), as once you are done you still have to source a Rear end that will take the abuse of the 3SGTE.

I did not try to source parts for a V8 to RWD swap. If I wanted that I'd go get a Mustang. I was going for the as close to orginal as possible outcome still using Toyota parts.

As for making parts like the crossmember and everything else for mounting everything. I was just gonna weld something up.

GMan
01-04-2008, 02:00 AM
> 12-20-2007, 07:11 AM #11
> Murgatroy
> Blowing Stereotypes, One Mind at a Time.
> Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
> Ride: `90 AT180 "Chaos" `89 ST162 "Mudhoney"
> I would personally buy an Alltrac if 4WD is your final goal.

That is what is usually suggested.

> I have seen this project started 4 or five times.

Easily. There are a Few Successful ones around.
How many failed ones ? "Neverstop" on 6gc started; succeeded ?
But complained of a vibration at speed and removed the awd.

> I only know of one personally that ever made it, it was a ST205 4WD conversion.
> I think it resides in Colorado now.
> I think it cost $60k+ to complete by a professional shop. I don't know what it sold for.

The original swapper did it with a clip (he was an importer aka Farley :-) and his own labor.
Depending on What he would've charged for his Own labor by the Hour,
$60k is way off... $10-15k Maybe?

It sat on Ebay for a while.
https://wfs.bc.edu/melket/Public/Car_stuff/EBay_ST205/eBayISAPI.dll.html?uniq=x9zz7g

Sold for ~$10k from what I heard to Another 6gc member.
http://www.6gc.net/members/144
Sold again....


2 certainly though.

One in CT. (sold???)
http://www.6gc.net/members/3517

There are others Swaps Outside the US.
Need more info ?

# Gary
# Senior Member
# Location: Boston/Palm Beach, FL
# Ride: 1993 Celica Alltrac Turbo
# In the US, there are 2 6th gen Celicas with AWD conversion.

There you go a 2nd opinion.

# One in CO, and one in MA.

The CT one sold to a MA resident ???? :sneak:

# These is a 5th gen Celica with AWD conversion somewhere in Pacific NW.

Oregon. http://www.oregonizedimports.com/pages/5/index.htm
(page not avaialable, saved here... )
https://wfs.bc.edu/melket/Public/Car_stuff/GT2_AWD_conversion/AWD_Swap.htm

Running ? I dunno, it blew the engine ?
But that happens to Real AT's too. :(

Swiss "GT4" (5gc) convertible conversion ?
https://wfs.bc.edu/melket/Public/Car_stuff/GT4_Convert/drivers_verzeichnis.htm

The swaps do occur off boards as well. So There Might Even be More ?
They seem to come up for sale occasionally. Just have to be open minded and follow some hints. :lolhittin

I keep Answering these for newbies and posting links of Successful swaps.
No one listens though... Congrats to the Pioneers that pull it off ! :bowdown:

Regards;

TurboTRDCelica
01-04-2008, 02:21 AM
I completed a 4th generation Celica AWD swap, I had a totalled ST165 and a 86 GTS cut the floor pans out & welded them into the GTS & bolted everything up. It was a Skills Center project of mine that my entire class helped on when I was in High School. The car turned out ok, it did have slight vibration above 80 and I had some alignment issues with Camber. We Used 1/4" plate in several places to reinforce our welds. I was completely surprised our teacher let us do it. My father sold the car out from under me in 2000 about 6 months after we finished it. So there probably is still a 86 GTS with the AWD 3S swap running around in the Northwest.

ccsouls
01-25-2008, 09:28 PM
I started this on my 1993 GT, but after getting all the JDM parts (entire drivetrain from a JDM AWD Celica) together and ready, I eventually decided to just go with a Camry V6 E153 and go FWD.

You would have to cut away the entire spare tire well and all the FWD rear suspension componenets, then weld in new mounting gear for the AWD rearend, move the gas tank into the trunk, then hope the rearend held up.

As others have said, by the time you have done all this, you would have enough cash in the deal to have purchased a nice Alltrac and fixed it up.

It can be done however, if you have the time and money.

I wanted to do it so I would have the only AWD Coupe, but it is just a major ordeal to hang that rear end. The AWD rearend is slighly wider than the GT, so that too would have to be accounted for.

Good luck.

Mr Celica
01-25-2008, 09:45 PM
i think putting the coupe body on an alltrac "frame/ chassis" would be easier than building the rear end, lol

burnyd
01-25-2008, 10:28 PM
well its dumb because all your left with is an alltrac.... and anyone who has driven a stock st185 will tell you they feel like a aquarium on 4 wheels.

ccsouls
01-31-2008, 08:20 PM
So are you saying you prefer a LSD FWD to the AWD?

If so, I would be interested in reading your theories on that.

I could understand if perhaps you are a straight liner, but the AWD would seem more desirable for the road racer.

Can't be simply a weight issue?

Please explain.

VikingJZ
01-31-2008, 09:24 PM
There was a thread here a few years ago where someone took a red 1991 GTS and converted to AWD using the floor pans and mechanical parts from a wrecked All-Trac.

My question to you is how bad do you want AWD? If you are seriously aiming for something to take to shows and events, by all means go for it. You will gain attention and possible business ventures.

On the other hand, which is most likely, is your car a daily driver? Swapping is common and has been done numerous times for daily driving situations. Converting to AWD will require so much time, energy, and devotion to complete that you may never see the fruits of your labor succeed.

When I had my 1990 Gt coupe, it was my first car (Car being used loosely because I drove a truck for a few months). I loved that car and still do, even though it is gone. I had extravagant plans for it, including a 3SGTE swap with a modest 300HP or so, new paint, full interior restoration, and an overall killer car. I also wanted to swap floors with an AT and make the first known AT coupe. its still a goal of mine if I can ever find a car that has all of the same specs as mine did. That car meant the world to me for reasons only I understand.

For you though, how far are you willing to push yourself? You're going to stumble and hit road blocks. Yes, you can do it if you have all of the required assets in line (Space, patience, time, equipment, and most importantly-money). If you feel you have all of the right stuff to do it, I would say to you to go for it. No one will ever bash you once have the project rolling with a great vision to succeed. If you ever finish it and post the progress here, I guarantee you will have the most respect from this entire community.

With that said, if you have made up your mind, good luck on you project and keep everyone posted.

Conrad_Turbo
01-31-2008, 09:53 PM
well its dumb because all your left with is an alltrac.... and anyone who has driven a stock st185 will tell you they feel like a aquarium on 4 wheels.

Gah the nerve! :D

As for making a FWD into an AWD car...all I have to say is why do it for a chassis that is already available in an AWD platform? I can understand if you want to "learn things" or have the pride of doing it on your own and such...but for every 1000 threads like this, only 1 gets built.

The simple way to make a GT to an Alltrac is to sell the GT and buy an Alltrac. Putting an AWD drivetrain into a GT will do absolutely nothing in terms of resale (not that it'll do much to begin with) and in the end you will end up with a lesser quality Alltrac. Not doubting your skills, but it's hard to beat an army of engineers with millions to spend on research, tooling and producing a quality Alltrac.

If I were you and wanted to make a FWD car AWD, go with something that isn't available AWD, like an Echo or hell even a Civic. That way you at least end up with something that could be better than stock (provided you have a lot of good common sense and fab skills).

SOLENOID
02-02-2008, 02:44 PM
I'd have to agree with logic on this one. I've been wanting to do a 3s swap for some time and came to this conclusion. Alltrac's are selling for anywhere from 3 to 10 thousand dollars. I could pick up one of those jewels and have my 3s, all wheel drive and a collectible car , then sell my gt for 4 to 6 thousand. I believe this to come way under the budget of any all wheel drive conversions. I've accomplished suspension swaps on various 4 wheel drive trucks and there are so many pitfalls when attempting these things camber, castor ,and ackerman angles ,not unachievable but its hard to beat factory engineering.

Lagos
02-02-2008, 06:17 PM
Gah the nerve! :D

As for making a FWD into an AWD car...all I have to say is why do it for a chassis that is already available in an AWD platform? I can understand if you want to "learn things" or have the pride of doing it on your own and such...but for every 1000 threads like this, only 1 gets built.

The simple way to make a GT to an Alltrac is to sell the GT and buy an Alltrac. Putting an AWD drivetrain into a GT will do absolutely nothing in terms of resale (not that it'll do much to begin with) and in the end you will end up with a lesser quality Alltrac. Not doubting your skills, but it's hard to beat an army of engineers with millions to spend on research, tooling and producing a quality Alltrac.

If I were you and wanted to make a FWD car AWD, go with something that isn't available AWD, like an Echo or hell even a Civic. That way you at least end up with something that could be better than stock (provided you have a lot of good common sense and fab skills).


And this is coming from one of the few guys on here that could actually pull off such a job!

Honestly, 99.999% of these threads are just some kids pipe dream. The reality is that you can buy a really nice alltrac for 5 grand or so, and have an awd 5th gen celica.