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Chris
09-25-2007, 03:37 AM
....are a complete bitch to work on. I will never again doubt my love for a Celica and its simplicity. That is all.

GT4SOM
09-25-2007, 03:41 AM
Yeah z's are a pain. Z32s are fucking nice though, just a bitch to work on.

Chris
09-25-2007, 04:02 AM
I never liked the look of them as much as I enjoyed the 80's look of the z31. Though I wouldn't mind their speed. Problem is all of their owners are convinced that they are supercars, which is kind of a joke.

celicaGT90_05
09-25-2007, 04:59 AM
Hell the Z32 just kicks ass in my opinion, I know a kid who had one and it was pretty damn fast for a stock NA version. As for supercar though....hell even the skyline isn't a supercar, I find them comparible to Supra's

MoralWarfare
09-25-2007, 06:57 AM
hahaha, even nissan techs hate older z cars.

Chris
09-26-2007, 07:01 AM
I can see why. The way they designed the fitting of the motor (its accessories, really) into the engine bay made absolutely no sense. Case in point a bolt on the air condition unit that has its head facing towards the block with barely 1/2 inch of clearance. Wtf?

TheNefariousOne
09-26-2007, 07:04 AM
That's cause manufacturers don't have to personally work on the car. So why should they give a rat's ass if some guy in his driveway finds it difficult to work on?

geebes
09-26-2007, 02:12 PM
THese cars are so friggin packed in the engine bay...its crazy! I'm not a big fan because of this.

Azzazzyn
09-26-2007, 04:38 PM
most anything to do with the z32, you kinda almost wanna pull the engine to do it, would make it a million times easier. such a huge fuckking engine.

Joeye27
09-27-2007, 12:51 AM
I never liked the look of them as much as I enjoyed the 80's look of the z31. Though I wouldn't mind their speed. Problem is all of their owners are convinced that they are supercars, which is kind of a joke.
My Celi is a supercar! :bigthumbu :lolhittin

Chris
09-28-2007, 03:22 AM
That's cause manufacturers don't have to personally work on the car. So why should they give a rat's ass if some guy in his driveway finds it difficult to work on?


Good point.

It's funny though, given the N/A 2.2 feel of the Celica vs. the N/A 3.0 of the 300zx, the Celica feels much more at ease with itself.
It's hard to describe, but speed is readily available with the Celica at any point in the motor. With the 300 it feels like you have to fight it to get it to 3.5k and up and then it gets going. Though the RWD drive is nice, makes me think that if the Celica had RWD it probably would have done better, and could have had a shot at killing the Miata.

geebes
09-28-2007, 05:52 PM
Good point.

It's funny though, given the N/A 2.2 feel of the Celica vs. the N/A 3.0 of the 300zx, the Celica feels much more at ease with itself.
It's hard to describe, but speed is readily available with the Celica at any point in the motor. With the 300 it feels like you have to fight it to get it to 3.5k and up and then it gets going. Though the RWD drive is nice, makes me think that if the Celica had RWD it probably would have done better, and could have had a shot at killing the Miata.

The Celi feels a lot more nimble I have noticed, the Z almost feels like I'm driving my dads Buick Lesabre, I totally agree that compared to the Celica the Z doesn't feel alive...its a real struggle to get it up and going (even with the turbo version).

Celica RWD would have been amazing. Could you imagine how popular the celica would be right now if it were rwd (with the whole drift scene, I don't think 240s would be as popular)?

Chris
09-29-2007, 12:20 AM
The Celi feels a lot more nimble I have noticed, the Z almost feels like I'm driving my dads Buick Lesabre, I totally agree that compared to the Celica the Z doesn't feel alive...its a real struggle to get it up and going (even with the turbo version).

Yep. But eh, it does get more looks than the Celica, I'll give it that much.


Celica RWD would have been amazing. Could you imagine how popular the celica would be right now if it were rwd (with the whole drift scene, I don't think 240s would be as popular)?

Agreed. which is cheaper to produce, RWD or FWD?

Blackcloud
09-29-2007, 12:49 AM
i messed around with a TT 300zx today driving home. pretty quick car, we kept nose to nose

hobbie2k
09-29-2007, 06:30 AM
Agreed. which is cheaper to produce, RWD or FWD?

There really isn't an inherent difference in cost. The cost issues come up when you need to update or replace a platform, in which case it's cheaper to use one that already exists, than develop a whole new one.

geebes
09-29-2007, 07:57 AM
Mine gets more looks because its an ugly POS. :)

Chris
09-29-2007, 04:41 PM
There really isn't an inherent difference in cost. The cost issues come up when you need to update or replace a platform, in which case it's cheaper to use one that already exists, than develop a whole new one.


Meh, then I wonder what the decision to change to FWD was from the 3rd gen? Ease of use on the driver?



Mine gets more looks because its an ugly POS.

Paint it Gold, Super Red, or Black, or even a Navy Blue. Trust me, you'll get noticed. And then people will ask you which is faster, your 300 or your (in my case) ugly paintjob Celica and you'll have to admit that the Celica would win hands down in everything except for maybe the drag strip. Maybe.

TheNefariousOne
09-29-2007, 05:25 PM
The switch to FWD was for the All-Trac. It's much easier to accomadate an AWD drivetrain in a car set-up for FWD than RWD AFAIK.

Chris
09-29-2007, 07:56 PM
Meh.

hobbie2k
09-29-2007, 08:15 PM
Meh, then I wonder what the decision to change to FWD was from the 3rd gen? Ease of use on the driver?

In the Celica's case, the 3rd gen platform was old, so instead of redesigning the Celica's platform, instead they moved the Celica name to a FWD platform that already existed, the Corolla's. Since the Corona had been cut and the Corolla and Camry were now FWD, Toyota probably decided it would make more financial sense to move the Celica onto one of the high-volume platforms that already exist, rather than design an all-new RWD platform just for the one model (it couldn't share the Supra platform, because that would require the Celica to move upmarket and then would crowd the Supra).

So it's not so much that they moved the drivetrain, rather, it's that they moved the label.

Chris
10-01-2007, 04:24 AM
In the Celica's case, the 3rd gen platform was old, so instead of redesigning the Celica's platform, instead they moved the Celica name to a FWD platform that already existed, the Corolla's. Since the Corona had been cut and the Corolla and Camry were now FWD, Toyota probably decided it would make more financial sense to move the Celica onto one of the high-volume platforms that already exist, rather than design an all-new RWD platform just for the one model (it couldn't share the Supra platform, because that would require the Celica to move upmarket and then would crowd the Supra).

So it's not so much that they moved the drivetrain, rather, it's that they moved the label.

Ah, I was wondering when the Corolla went to FWD. Makes financial sense though, especially given some shared parts between the Camry and Celica. Though, I missed out on the FWD craze due to me not even being born yet, so what was the push behind it? Better control in hazardous conditions?

hobbie2k
10-02-2007, 02:10 PM
Ah, I was wondering when the Corolla went to FWD. Makes financial sense though, especially given some shared parts between the Camry and Celica. Though, I missed out on the FWD craze due to me not even being born yet, so what was the push behind it? Better control in hazardous conditions?

Not to sound old, (I was born right when the FWD craze was starting)...

Lots of reasons. The big one is that FWD drivetrains are more compact, allowing more interior space in a smaller car, and as you'll recall, the FWD switch was occuring about the same time as a major downsizing in vehicles due to fuel economy standards. In addition, FWD is more fuel efficient due to less drivetrain loss.

FWD also has advantages in hazardous conditions, it's not that it provides better control, as such, but rather that having all the weight and power on the front wheels provides better traction at low speeds, and better stability at high speeds.

Lastly, there are crash safety advantages of FWD vehicles as well. The greater stability means the the cars are less likely to go sideways, resulting in a side impact or a rollover (you're protected best in front-end collisions), and the compact drivetrain means there is more "crush space" between you and the engine/transaxle.

Chris
10-02-2007, 04:58 PM
Ah, so its great for daily driving as it is generally safer and is more stable, but bad for performance for some of the same reasons (ie all the weight being on the front wheels). In that way, I guess I can see the reasoning behind the switch.