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View Full Version : Celica Half-trac Vs. Eclipse GST



turbo4ag
09-07-2007, 12:18 AM
Im sure this is a pretty dumb question to ask being this is a Celica forum. But which one is a better?

I've drawn out a full budget of everything, and with my income, if nothing suprising pops up in the next few months, by January I should have about $3000 once I sell my turbo Corolla project, making that $4000-4500. I've thought of just about every car that I'd consider buying (In the affordable, FF sporty coupe class) and its come down to these two. I really have planned, and know pretty much 90% of what I need to do to build a Celica Half-trac, I dont want to deal with the problems associated with an All-trac. This would be starting with a 5th gen GT or GTS, then swapping in a 3SGTE. But when I compare it to a similar car like the Mitsubishi, it almost doesn't make sense from a performance vs. time vs. cost comparison plus the Eclipse would be newer.

What do you guys think?

I know the Mitsubishi's have really bad electrical systems and drivetrain faults. But when I just saw a 96 Eclipse GST for $3500 w/rebuilt engine and transmission, just in need of very, very minor body work, and a definite paint job, it looks tempting. I see alot of 95+ for similar prices as well. Somehow convince me the Celica is the way to stay.

Thanks.

burnyd
09-07-2007, 12:31 AM
Im sure this is a pretty dumb question to ask being this is a Celica forum. But which one is a better?

I've drawn out a full budget of everything, and with my income, if nothing suprising pops up in the next few months, by January I should have about $3000 once I sell my turbo Corolla project, making that $4000-4500. I've thought of just about every car that I'd consider buying (In the affordable, FF sporty coupe class) and its come down to these two. I really have planned, and know pretty much 90% of what I need to do to build a Celica Half-trac, I dont want to deal with the problems associated with an All-trac. This would be starting with a 5th gen GT or GTS, then swapping in a 3SGTE. But when I compare it to a similar car like the Mitsubishi, it almost doesn't make sense from a performance vs. time vs. cost comparison plus the Eclipse would be newer.

What do you guys think?

I know the Mitsubishi's have really bad electrical systems and drivetrain faults. But when I just saw a 96 Eclipse GST for $3500 w/rebuilt engine and transmission, just in need of very, very minor body work, and a definite paint job, it looks tempting. I see alot of 95+ for similar prices as well. Somehow convince me the Celica is the way to stay.

Thanks.


are you going to cry about your answer if its not directed properly?

If your not attatched to a celica like the rest of us are and you only really care about making power go that route.

The year your looking at the 2g dsm's have the 7 bolt motor main motors.. there normally the ones that crankwalk easily.

But between the two theres so much more you can do with a dsm cheeper... doesnt meen its more reliable but theres more resources for that car... but between the two the dsm would be a better route in your case.... that is if you only care about making more power for cheeper.

turbo4ag
09-07-2007, 12:38 AM
are you going to cry about your answer if its not directed properly?

If your not attatched to a celica like the rest of us are and you only really care about making power go that route.

...that is if you only care about making more power for cheeper.


How Rude, Mister!

LMAO... okay guy. If you've ever met me in person you'd see how much I defend Toyotas once any of the discussions come up as far as the best balance of performance, cost, and reliability. But Im just asking a question, no need to soak your drawers. I really, really want to build the Celica for various reasons. Just thought I'd ask a comparison of what people think of the two cars.

geebes
09-07-2007, 12:45 AM
I have two friends, one had the eclipse GST, one had the JDM 3sgte celica gt. Celica was way more powerful and way more reliable...plus they look better. :p

turbo4ag
09-07-2007, 12:56 AM
I actually like the looks of both cars to tell you the truth. The Pre 97 Eclipse kinda looks lame, but the 97-98, the one with the open air dam in the front looks really aggressive. The JDM CS hood and bumper combo along with aeromagic lip looks too sick tho.

Which one handles better though? The weights are negligible. But given that the Eclipse comes with LSD stock along with shock suspension it makes me wonder. Power output is as equal as it gets. The engine designs and turbo setups are right on par with eachother.

GT4SOM
09-07-2007, 01:01 AM
If you want more bang for your buck go dsm. If you want power and reliability for a little more cost, go 3sgte. honestly just buy a mr2 turbo if you want a 3sgte.

celicaGT90_05
09-07-2007, 01:06 AM
well I do like those eclipses, but from my experience a lot of them dont even make it to 200k miles...the interior on them is kinda cheap as well, and I dont know how fun they are to drive but the celicas are fun. I like both though, its kind of an even race

turbo4ag
09-07-2007, 01:08 AM
Really the reliability and rarity of fast Celicas around my area has always sealed the deal.

The MR2 was never a car I considered. They are too highly priced for MR2 turbos (for a good reason tho). But besides that, I once pulled a 7AGE I found in an AW11 in the junkyard, and I dont know if it was the lack of tools or heat or what. But it was the worst experience ever. I've also had friends with AW11s and working on the engine is kinda crapped for anything. I just am dissagreeable with that car.

The Celica I've driven (Moms 92 ST, brothers 2001 GT) and had more experience with. Its one car I've always liked, stlying, reliability and performance option categories.

Cavanagh
09-07-2007, 01:14 AM
That DSM shoulnd't have even been an option between the two. Celica all the way.

turbo4ag
09-07-2007, 01:25 AM
Well, forgot to mention this in the first post, but with the serious talks and what not about emissions testing, etc for Florida, it'd be impossible to pass a JDM 3SGTE. Thats why I've been weighing my options. A USDM 3SGTE is a rarer find, and might be harder to get all the emissions funciton stock in a 5SFE engine bay.

The 4G63 has alot of potential and would come with everything needed to get it to pass. Just rebuild, upgrade, and go.

geebes
09-07-2007, 01:45 AM
ooohhh...mr2 is an interesting option...go with an STI

Sean
09-07-2007, 02:33 AM
I love smoking GST's

Blackcloud
09-07-2007, 02:38 AM
buy a truck

Cosco
09-07-2007, 03:03 AM
I'd go with the Half-Trac. DSM's are becoming way to common these days. For good reasons though, which also leads to most of them being beat to piss. Did the owner blow the motor? Or was it just a rebuild to increase strength? It seems very hard to find one in decent shape out here.

ToyotaSupra
09-07-2007, 05:30 AM
Both the 3sgte celica and turbo eclipse are fast off the line, but handling is average for both cars.

Buy a 5sfe MKII MR2. You'll eventually forget about the 5th gen Celica... I know I did. The MR2 NA obviously doesn't have the power to win drag races, but corner exit speeds are amazing and very stable (you can keep up with much faster cars in the twisty, no joke). It's so far been the most fun I have had with 130 HP.

If you thought the celica was nimble, the MR2 takes it to a whole new level. :bigthumbu

The only downsides are 2 seats, short gearing (bad long distance car, but takes advantage of the 5sfe band), and absence of a cup holder, however, it's an excellent daily driver/downtown car with good gas mileage.

celicaGT90_05
09-07-2007, 06:32 AM
I'd love an MR-2, I was lookin to get a 2nd gen a while back and after studying it for a while I fell in love with it. I want one really bad, but dont have the money, space, or time to get one right now. I will some time down the road though

Blue91CelicaGT
09-07-2007, 02:39 PM
If you just want a project "go-fast" car why not just get a civic?

turbo4ag
09-07-2007, 03:48 PM
I have a Civic, an EG civic as a matter of fact, plus its 5 speed already... and STILL what your saying sounds obsurd to me. Fuck a Honda. People steal those cars like kids who as for a cup to "just get water" at Burger King. I would have to get full coverage including theft and it would cost around $2000 a year (no joke, I pay $1000 with bare bones). Plus the engines cost alot for no good reason.

I really dont care about the "circuit" handling persay. I dont do race tracks only straight aways. The handling question was more on the lines of smootheness and drivetrain engagement. I've driven in Eclipses with 18" wheels plus a 2" drop that felt pretty smooth considering. My brother's 01 GT has a 2" drop and 17" wheels and you feel every bump. And with the stock LSD, its almost a give in that the Mitsubishi will handle heavy accel from a dead stop quicker. If I was to get a MR2 w/ LSD transmission though it would negate that.


Im 90% sure my next car will be a Celica just because of all the info I know and the rarity plus reliability. Its just when I thought about it, the Mitsu is a pretty easy build for much, much less. Especially if I can afford to keep my daily driver and use the Mitsubishi as a race car only, it'd even things out alot. The Celica is such a reliable engine (atleast the way I'm going to build it) that I'd almost have to daily drive that one.

Lagos
09-07-2007, 04:57 PM
honestly.... if you want a turbo car, and you want to pass emissions, buy an alltrac.
i dont know what issues you think the alltrac has, but a DSM is a money pit from hell. almost all the dsm guys i know are on their 2nd or 3rd motor. the 2g dsm is also not that great. its known for crankwalk, and comes with a much smaller stock turbo. if anything, buy a 1g dsm, in good shape (if u can find one).

andy
09-10-2007, 06:59 AM
i have friends with dsms. to put it this way, my celica with the swap has been running for 1 year with no problems. my friends dsm is 5 weeks old. Its been broken down about 3 times so far. yeah. a celica my friend.

DaneDog311
09-10-2007, 07:07 PM
The 4g63t in a DSM is a good motor... It's strong and dependable... If it's left alone... Most GST/GSX/TSI have either been beaten badly by people who aren't smart enough to let the turbo warm up or cool down. Plus DSM have lots of "FREE MODS" people like to do to them such as crushing the BOV.. forcing more boost on a stock motor... DSM do have speed potential but only with a substantial ammount of money... Anything newer then a 94 has the 2nd generation motor which had stronger pistons but major crank issues... I once read on a site that the best thing that u can do for a 95 newer DSM is swap the motor due to the crankwalk issue... don't get me wrong they are fast cars... but there handling stock vs stock celica is no comparison. the GST rear end is so flimsly mounted I had to have most of it replaced. In hard cornering the ONE little bracket that mounts to your main "I beam" suspension seems to let the rear end of the car track offset to the front wheels... look under the rear passenger side of a gst and check the only bar that is stabilizing the wheels from right to left... it mounts to a tiny little bracket... I also bent the one I had professionally welded in place... unfortunately when it bent i was in the triple digits and the car ended up completely totalled... I actually owned a Eagle Talon TSI at the same Time I had my Celica GT... and the GT could run circles around it on a circular track but the TSI was way faster... never owned an all-trac so i can't compare there... either way... you are looking to make horsepower... and RELIABLE... if u buy a 95+ eclipse/talon your gonna end up swapping that motor... here's some great info though if you do go that route... http://www.vfaq.com/index-main.html

1990CelicaGT-S
09-11-2007, 12:38 PM
The TSI's are bad for headgaskets too aren't they? A freind of mine had one and ended up doing it three times before the block cracked.

VikingJZ
09-12-2007, 04:32 AM
Those cars are just shitty in general. A friend of mine had a GSX and my old 90 GT was somehow faster.

Go Toyota all the way. If you have a lot of money, buy a 92-00 SC300 and do a 2JZGTE and 6-speed swap and leave it alone so you can pass emissions.