PDA

View Full Version : MegaSquirt II



Ricksta
08-27-2007, 01:33 AM
anyone have any experience with this?

Conrad_Turbo
08-27-2007, 03:42 PM
These people do: http://www.msefi.com/

Do some research.

geebes
08-27-2007, 05:24 PM
Female ejaculation? No. :P

vip09
08-27-2007, 05:27 PM
Rick... just get the AEM. You just have to plug it in, and take it to your tuner. Pretty much every dyno shop knows AEM.

turbo4ag
08-27-2007, 07:49 PM
Rick... just get the AEM. You just have to plug it in, and take it to your tuner. Pretty much every dyno shop knows AEM.

Ballllllllin'.......!$!

GT4SOM
08-27-2007, 09:36 PM
Rick... just get the AEM. You just have to plug it in, and take it to your tuner. Pretty much every dyno shop knows AEM.
He has a valid point. AEM would be pretty easy. I suggested MS because since you're in my area, a lot of local tuner shops use MS. XAT in example. Its pretty good for the 240 guys and rolla guys too.

Ricksta
08-27-2007, 09:41 PM
Rick... just get the AEM. You just have to plug it in, and take it to your tuner. Pretty much every dyno shop knows AEM.
this is why...



If price is the end-all and be-all in your decision, then I urge you to do more research before you settle on your system.

The Nemesis base unit comes with every single thing you need to run speed density. Every sensor, every wire, every vacuum line, every tee, every bolt, every bracket, period. You will not need to cut a single wire on the engine harness or drill a single hole in the chassis to install the unit. We own MR2 and designed the MR2 plug and play Nemesis unit specifically for the MR2. The same system works on any year MR2 turbo either US or JDM. The plug and play board has jumpers that can be set to adapt the pinout to any year gen2 or gen3 harness. The base unit is $1500 plus $15 for shipping anywhere in the USA. That price also includes one year warranty and unlimited support.

You might find an MR2 AEM unit for a couple hundred dollars less from an internet dealer that knows diddly about the MR2. They will tell you to go to the boards or call AEM for support. They will not be able to tell you what sensors you need to run speed density and how to hook them up. When you do figure it out, you will spend pretty much what you saved to purchase the MAP sensor, the MAT sensor the MAT sensor bracket, and a serial cable that you can actually route from the trunk to the passenger cabin without having to take a saw to the car. Then you will have to devalue the car by cutting up the engine harness so that you can feed these sensors to the right wires.

As far as the wideband, you won't need one with the Nemesis unless you plan on tuning the car yourself. Once the Nemesis is tuned it runs closed loop using the stock O2 sensor to get you excellent gas economy. If you want the same kind of fuel economy with the AEM, you will be purchasing their wideband as the AEM does not operate with the stock O2 sensor. The wideband setup for the Nemesis is $395 and you get a lab-grade L2H2 sensor, a cable, a Toyota-to-universal adapter plate and you will find that the Nemesis is already enabled to use it since we pay extra to have all our MR2 Nemesis units wideband enabled from the factory.

The boost control feature for $150 includes a high quality solenoid, a cable and some basic hardware to secure it all in place. If you want to use your own solenoid please go right ahead, just have the decency to not expect me to sit two hours on the phone with you figuring out that the solenoid isn't big enough, or fast enough or reliable enough to ever work properly.

The turbo timer feature for $50 includes the turbo timer relay and the cable to connect it up to the car. You will have to make a tiny modification inside the engine bay fuse box to install it. Everything is figured out for you. If this is too expensive, I'll be happy to tell you which output pin on the Nemesis is programmed to run the turbo timer and you can find a relay, make you own cable and spend your own time looking at the MR2 wiring diagrams to save yourself a few dollars. You'll be doing the same thing with the AEM since they don't provide a ready-made turbo timing package.

So if price is your main constraint, start with the end in mind and price out every single thing you are going to need to get the EMS setup you want. Make sure that you include installation costs if you won't be doing everything yourself. Don't forget all those little items that can easily add up to serious money that you may not get in the box when you buy your unit.

fawkin A pays to ask, ya know :)


not to mention its gonna cost prolly a good 1k for a good tune...

Ricksta
08-27-2007, 10:21 PM
im not sure why they dont come fully essembled but i can buy it essembled for 400 bucks. all id have to buy seperate is the electronic boost controller and i can use my current wideband on there as well. full ems for 400 bucks cant beat that.

like gt4som said, most of the shops around here deal with megasquirt more, so thier must be some pretty good tuners with it. im gonna go with megasquirt yo...

91 celica st
08-27-2007, 10:50 PM
megasquirt is for poor poeple

the reliabilty is crap
its a pain in the ass to get working
and in the long run (depending on if u use edis or not) it ends up costing a bunch anyway

get a real standalone

Ricksta
08-27-2007, 11:36 PM
if i dont go with megasquirt i was thinking of map2. its about as close to standalone as you can get and i hear nothin but good things about it on the mr2 boards.
http://www.mapecu.co.nz/map2.html

turbo4ag
08-28-2007, 09:10 PM
megasquirt is for poor poeple

the reliabilty is crap
its a pain in the ass to get working
and in the long run (depending on if u use edis or not) it ends up costing a bunch anyway

get a real standalone

Unless you know what your doing.

I've had quite some trouble wiring and tuning the MS on my 4AGTE because I didn't know what I was doing. Now that I've gone through an electronics & electrical systems class and fully understand most of the terminology used and what features do what, it doesn't seem that hard.

But because of the lack of support (everyone think msefi.com gives help when they never have) thats the only thing hard about MS. Its truly a DIY standalone. Once properly wired & tuned, nobody has anything on it except table resolution (12x12 on MS). It can pretty much do everything else.

If you knew exactly what you were doing and how to assemble the kit, there's no reason a full MS with wiring/sensors, WB02 and self tuning should run more than $600. You can't cut that price with any other standalone no matter what type of crackhead prices you find.

Ricksta
08-28-2007, 09:25 PM
Unless you know what your doing.

I've had quite some trouble wiring and tuning the MS on my 4AGTE because I didn't know what I was doing. Now that I've gone through an electronics & electrical systems class and fully understand most of the terminology used and what features do what, it doesn't seem that hard.

But because of the lack of support (everyone think msefi.com gives help when they never have) thats the only thing hard about MS. Its truly a DIY standalone. Once properly wired & tuned, nobody has anything on it except table resolution (12x12 on MS). It can pretty much do everything else.

If you knew exactly what you were doing and how to assemble the kit, there's no reason a full MS with wiring/sensors, WB02 and self tuning should run more than $600. You can't cut that price with any other standalone no matter what type of crackhead prices you find.

i can buy them fully essembled for 400 bucks. im just skeptical about trying to tune myself...

pitcelica
08-28-2007, 09:26 PM
I totally agree with you turbo4ag.

Why pay 1400$ for a AEM EMS system?

The only big difference between MS and AEM is the plug and play concept. But, as you said, if you know what you're doing, you can modify the internal code and have a lot of more function like knock detection. You can customize the Megatune interface too. You can create new gauges easily and you can monitor every input you think that is useful.

For 600$, if you like the DIY concept, the Megasquirt is for you. Maybe it will take a lil more time to ge it tuned, but you will save money and you will learn a lot.

The datalogging system have a built in HP and Torque calculation. So, you enter some accurate inputs and the MS can calculate accurately your HP and your torque.

So, you don't need to pay 800$ for a tuning shop to tune your engine on a dyno.

As I said, it take a lil more time to get everything right, but it's nothing compare to what you will learn.

I prefer to take my time and understanding a combustion engine completely than paying someone else to do it.

Anyway, it's my opinion, but I don't believe them that are saying that MS isn't for serious tuners. A lot of drag bike are controlled by MS. You can get the most of your engine with MS and you can do it yourself and you can be proud of it.

Buy an MSII system, you will save money and you will learn a lot.

91 celica st
08-28-2007, 10:10 PM
my point exactly....its end up being $600 even if you do everything yourself. and the learning curve sucks ass if you dont mknow how to use it (witch tehres no way ricksta will ever et to use it)

ive ran one on my 4afe 4age and used ford edis on a st as well. its not something someone like ricksta is goign to be able to or should use.

and FYI the reliabilty is not so good anyway. they are plagued with software and hardware failures. granted i love the ability to mod any of the code it still int as good.

and for $600 you can get something better.....like an smt-7

turbo4ag
08-28-2007, 10:17 PM
i can buy them fully essembled for 400 bucks. im just skeptical about trying to tune myself...

If you buy it for $400 fully assembled you probably wont have it operational for $600. But thats a brand new price. I got mine used, fully assembled and with the full EDIS kit wired up for $400.

Tuning is not a problem. Tuning is the easiest part of Megasquirt so long as you know the basics about internal combustion. Autotune first for a base map, then just put in a number, see if the AFR, EGT, & Knock goes up or down, and keep going through this for the whole map. Datalog, repeat, datalog, repeat.

Initially setting it up 100% properly is the key though. Which will take alot of know how.

turbo4ag
08-28-2007, 10:24 PM
my point exactly....its end up being $600 even if you do everything yourself. and the learning curve sucks ass if you dont mknow how to use it (witch tehres no way ricksta will ever et to use it)

ive ran one on my 4afe 4age and used ford edis on a st as well. its not something someone like ricksta is goign to be able to or should use.

and FYI the reliabilty is not so good anyway. they are plagued with software and hardware failures. granted i love the ability to mod any of the code it still int as good.

and for $600 you can get something better.....like an smt-7

If you buy an MS1 kit, fully assembled by a proffesional, you can run your car pretty reliably for $400. You wont be using alot of the features, but it can be done. And your timing & fuel will be spot on. All the MS really needs is: Power, ground, fuel injectors, TPS, IGN signal, Coolant temp, & fuel pump control. Thats it. Obviously the average user doesn't settle for this only though. And some sensors & distributors might need customization, but thats about as simple as its gonna get.

The SMT is not a standalone and takes just as much skill to wire it up.

As far as reliability, I've downloaded the software online, then bought a used MS1 and been using it for almost a year. Not saying there are no bugs, but I havent done anything precautionary or out of the norm.

91 celica st
08-29-2007, 12:06 AM
ive had fried chips to bugged software....guess just bad luck :/

Rix86
08-29-2007, 05:12 AM
megasquirt is for poor poeple

the reliabilty is crap
its a pain in the ass to get working
and in the long run (depending on if u use edis or not) it ends up costing a bunch anyway

get a real standalone
Wanna bet on that?
Mine's been running for 3 years with NO problems.
ANY standalone from dead nothing flat maps will be a pain.
And I'm in it about 400 dollars.

91 celica st
08-29-2007, 05:25 AM
Wanna bet on that?
Mine's been running for 3 years with NO problems.
ANY standalone from dead nothing flat maps will be a pain.
And I'm in it about 400 dollars.
got 1 from diyautotune (who has the best rep IMO) with a friend chip
got a new one.... burnt out crystal
got a new one a few fucked up resistors that i replaced and then it was fine

on aonther the chip wouldnt hold data. tried a friends chip and it worked.

just a bunch of gay shit that left me sour about it. wont ever use it again...MS1>ms2 IMO MS2 i had so many problems with

Rix86
08-30-2007, 02:17 AM
got 1 from diyautotune (who has the best rep IMO) with a friend chip
got a new one.... burnt out crystal
got a new one a few fucked up resistors that i replaced and then it was fine

on aonther the chip wouldnt hold data. tried a friends chip and it worked.

just a bunch of gay shit that left me sour about it. wont ever use it again...MS1>ms2 IMO MS2 i had so many problems with
DIY autotune sucks. heard almost all bad about them.
rodney sparks = kick ass.
www.rs-autosport.com

turbo4ag
08-30-2007, 03:49 AM
I had good experience with DIYautotune, but never actually bought a MS from them. Only harnesses, sensors, etc..

KoreanJoey
08-30-2007, 09:14 AM
*CLIFFS*

Ricksta = too noob to run MS.

91 celica st
08-30-2007, 09:26 AM
I had good experience with DIYautotune, but never actually bought a MS from them. Only harnesses, sensors, etc..
ive had 1 from them then started buildling my own....

my MS1 never broke with V 2.2....it was V3.0 and MS II i had all my problems with


and yes ricksta is BY FAR too nubish to deal with it

85gtsblackman
08-30-2007, 07:01 PM
all the 3rd gen guys basicly have to run ms to get over 200 hp n/a unless carbed

no problems reported yet

damn im glad i have a programable factory ecu with cheap programing options

yay cobb accessport :bowdown:

donteatbugs
08-30-2007, 07:26 PM
i bought hydra because time will be a factor when putting it in my alltrac. plus it comes with 4 different base maps. none of which are the stock ones i need.

Lagos
08-30-2007, 07:38 PM
if you don't know how an electronic boost controller works, or what the difference between high and low impedence injectors is, then megasquirt is not for you.

turbo4ag
08-30-2007, 08:08 PM
if you don't know how an electronic boost controller works, or what the difference between high and low impedence injectors is, then megasquirt is not for you.

:duh:

donteatbugs
08-30-2007, 10:17 PM
the diference is in the resistance range of the coil that controls the opening and closing of the injector and the proportions that it usees. hydra controls either.

turbo4ag
08-30-2007, 10:21 PM
the diference is in the resistance range of the coil that controls the opening and closing of the injector and the proportions that it usees. hydra controls either.

So does Megasquirt 1 & 2. But that was a shot taken at Ricksta by Lagos. Thats why I posted :owned:

MrWOT
08-31-2007, 07:50 AM
MS is a fine system, and can be made to run extremely well if you know what you are doing, but in all seriousness I don't think you have the concentration to learn to program it properly, it is NOT a user friendly system.

KoreanJoey
08-31-2007, 08:57 AM
*CLIFFS*

Ricksta = too noob to run MS.

Ahhhem... you guys are just saying what I already did. :)

Ricksta
08-31-2007, 10:25 PM
MS is a fine system, and can be made to run extremely well if you know what you are doing, but in all seriousness I don't think you have the concentration to learn to program it properly, it is NOT a user friendly system.

actually i do have the patiences...i just have to get around to reading about it or have someone who already knows how to use it show me. im a quick learner. i saw this vid of ms on a lcd screen it looked pretty nifty. i wouldnt mind buying a pre assembled one and then going from there. 2g for an ems is just not in the budget. im not tryin to be a pro racer i just want my damn car to run right. i love learning and working on cars, the majority of my knowledge comes from what i have learned on this site. if anyone remembers when i first came here you would know ive come a long way since then...

BlueDragon
08-31-2007, 11:28 PM
actually i do have the patiences...i just have to get around to reading about it or have someone who already knows how to use it show me. im a quick learner. i saw this vid of ms on a lcd screen it looked pretty nifty. i wouldnt mind buying a pre assembled one and then going from there. 2g for an ems is just not in the budget. im not tryin to be a pro racer i just want my damn car to run right. i love learning and working on cars, the majority of my knowledge comes from what i have learned on this site. if anyone remembers when i first came here you would know ive come a long way since then...
Word I feel the same way, everytime i post or ask a question about a certain system most all i get is negative replies from people who dont even have first hand experience with the item telling me that I am not competent enough to use it or somethin along those lines. All I really want is someone who knows and actually cares to help me out and thats all Ricksta is askin for.
Instead of posting things like... if you dont kno what this and that is you cant do this... how about posting something about hey man ill teach you what you need to know (or is it because most you people saying that stuff dont kno or dont care enough to teach him, u just wanna post on his thread for what reason??????) about this system or what supporting knowledge you need to run this system etc..?? I sure know when I figure things out Im not gonna be shy about helping others, hell I want to do that permanently if I could... It would be the greatest job. But till then can anyone post up something helpfull maybe?
:bigthumbu

MrWOT
09-01-2007, 08:33 AM
You need to study how to build, and how to tune MS for at least a few months to be able to safely install it and run it. You need to be able to understand all the signals going into the ECU and how to troubleshoot a single component on the board by symptom. This is not something someone relitively new to electronics should dive into without serious research. I studied both MS I and MS II along with the optional code, MS I has the better code, II has the resolution. MS works great for race cars because at high engine speed batch fire works just great due when the intake velocity is high. But it hurts mileage down low and makes it really hard to dial in a good tune without good instrumentation. And for the price of the tuning equipment, there's the higher end ECU again.

To sum it up, get MS if you want to learn about electronics, if you aren't interested in really studying how it works, it's a bomb just waiting to go off in your lap.