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View Full Version : Looking to buy first Celica... Is this a GT?



turbo4ag
07-18-2007, 05:42 AM
Im looking to get a Celica as a full on project car and build it from the ground up. I was wondering if some of you guys more familiar with Celicas can help me determine if this car I found in the Autotrader is a GT?

http://images.autotrader.com/images/2007/7/12/226/412/2453149635.226412343.IM1.MAIN.565x421_A.562x421.jp g

The spoiler and the black side molding scream STX to me, but the fog light cut outs and what appears to be 5 lug nuts tell otherwise. Its also a 1992 which if Im not mistake they stopped STXs by then. I haven't been able to contact the seller yet, but was wondering if it appears to be a GT Celica?

Its a 5 spd, appears to have no major damage. The listing states it has no AC, "needs tlc", yet "strong reliable engine". Im guessing it has some engine problems but nothing that keeps the car from completely not driving. At the same time I see the front rotors are covered in rust meaning they dont drive it regularly. The seller is only asking $895. Hopefully if it works out I can steal it for $800.

andy
07-18-2007, 05:57 AM
thats deff a 5 lug, means its a gt i supose. 800 is a steal. although i though all gt's were hatchbacks. ehh. what do i know.

suasa
07-18-2007, 06:01 AM
looks like a gt to me fenders arent flared like a gts has 5 bolt rims st never came with that btw the stx was only overseas its only st here in North america good luck with the car, although what are your plans for the car, if you want to build a serious car you are far better to start with an alltrac

turbo4ag
07-18-2007, 06:09 AM
No I will be glad to start with an GT. It will be a serious build, but it will be over the next two years or so. I am a college student primarily and building is what I do for a hobby.

Also, call me crazy, but I guess Im the only one on this forum that likes GT Coupes better than Hatchbacks. BTW, The STX came here in America also. My mom owned one back in the later 90s.

turbo4ag
07-18-2007, 06:11 AM
I really hope its still available and I can scoop this up. I will honestly give up my 90% finished turbo AE92 project just to get this car if its in good condition. I've always wanted a GT Coupe.

Thanks for the help guys.

geebes
07-18-2007, 08:05 AM
Looks ok, other than the fact that hatchbacks are way sweeter. :hehe: Do it, DO IT!

Murgatroy
07-18-2007, 09:26 AM
Wow at all the misinformation.

Yes the STX exists in the States. It is a dealer option.

STs came in 5 lug. `90-`91 had 4 lug, `92+ had 5 lug.

That is a facelift (`92+) bumper cover. Thus the foglight cutouts. The Toyota badge as opposed to 'TOYOTA' script across the faux carbon tells this is a `92+ 5th Gen.

The car is obviously a `92-`93 ST. The black sidemoldings and door handles give it away. The mirrors have been painted. I don't think that is a factory color (unless the lighting is bad and it is white and not beige.) That would explain the mirrors.

The ST also came with a spoiler. It was an option, it could be had outside of the STX package.

Murgatroy
07-18-2007, 09:32 AM
Also, depending on the intended use, the ST185 Chassis is not the best platform to start with. The ST is the better option in some aspects. The weight difference of almost 1000lbs makes for a big bonus. AWD is not the be all end all of automobiles. In adverse driving conditions, such as snow or gravel, yes AWD is great. It is also fun in the corners. But when you factor in drivetrain powerloss, the AWD system isn't always as spectacular as a simple FWD setup with an LSD.

I am also biased, both of my Celicas are FWD, and I put very good money on my ability to outdrive an equal engined AWD equipped Celica.

That is just bravado talking, my wife won't allow me to race anymore, and the heavily increased police patrols on the Dragon eliminate my stomping grounds. :hehe:

MCcelica
07-18-2007, 09:46 AM
The GT came in Coupe form too, however Murg is on the money though. It could also be that youve got a limited edition ST though hence the newer bumper cover with the foglight inserts, and pin striping if it is stock pinstriping. I've also seen a GTX celica that looked strikingly similar, unfortunatly I was unable to speak to the owner to be sure because I was at work. If you could post an engine number or maybe a pic of the engine that would eliminate any doubt.

1990CelicaGT-S
07-18-2007, 10:37 AM
Damn, Murg beat me to it. All the ST's 92'+ had 5 lug.

2kSnakEater
07-18-2007, 03:23 PM
just look at the engine, ST's have the 4afe 1.xL engine and the GT/GTS have the 5sfe witch is a 2.2L engine.

TheNefariousOne
07-18-2007, 03:29 PM
That's a GT coupe - it also has the 3 piece spoiler if you look close enough.

Murgatroy
07-18-2007, 03:30 PM
He hasn't spoken to the owner yet, or seen other pictures.

Looking at the engine is easy. If it is an 'S' series engine it will be canted back. An 'A' series engine sits straight up.

burnyd
07-18-2007, 04:10 PM
its a 92 stx its a ST.

turbo4ag
07-18-2007, 04:58 PM
See, this is why I asked, because I couldn't tell either :bigthumbu

It appears to have a one piece spolier notorious with ST and STXs. But that front bumper and mirrors really throw me off. I just cant tell. As soon as I see the engine I will obviously know, but I cant reach the seller yet. I will try calling again later on today.

I will post back when I get some more details.

extremeskillz
07-18-2007, 06:47 PM
Its a GT coupe narrow body. Those came in convertables as well. Depending on options is what made them GTs. I like my hatchback better. Good luck with your project.

Murgatroy
07-18-2007, 07:09 PM
I can't stress this enough.

That is not a GT coupe.

That is an ST.

If you are not 100% certain about what differentiates the models differences, stop telling someone what that is.

I am 100% certain that is a `92-`93 ST.

turbo4ag
07-18-2007, 07:49 PM
I figured it was an ST but there is always hope. The first time I saw the picture I said, damn good price, but its an ST. Especially since I've looked over atleast 1000 or so in different Autotraders over the years. I can usually tell right away what is what.

But then after thinking about it, for some reason I questioned it.

I actually prefer the FWD over AWD like Murg, but I will not take an ST Celica under any circumstance. Its just not worth it. The GT coupe is a good 150 lbs heavier than the ST, but considering I will have much better breaking, better suspension stock, and no need to weld and customize the chassis to fit a 3SGTE, its not worth the initial savings.

As far as Coupe vs. Hatch. I guess I'm wierd. The front end looks better because of the wideness, but that high rear pillar makes it look bad.

Murgatroy
07-18-2007, 08:01 PM
I prefer the coupe in the 5th gen. There is too much dead space in the hatch. The area behind the doors, under the rear glass, there is just too much flat area with nothing happening. For a car with so many curves, the GT hatch is just not doing it. The GT-S however has the widebody going for it. I like that, it makes use of that dead space. The body width on the GT/ST coupe and the GT hatch are the same. The GT-S and Alltrac where available as widebody hatch only.

With the 4th and 6th gens I think the hatch is much better looking than the coupe.

Other than the ST's underpowered engine, there is nothing wrong with them. If you go with the postfacelift 5th Gen ST the brakes are the same as the GT. The only difference is that the GT came with the option of having rear brakes. However all of these parts are interchangable with the GT-S brakes making a larger 4 wheel disc setup possible.

The ST came with only AC and an auto as the options that add weight. This is excluding the STX. Chaos, after her small diet tips the scales at 2300 lbs with me in her. That makes her about 2120 lbs solo. This is after the removal of the AC.

It is true, to swap in a 3SGTE you have to change the crossmember and change the upper motor mount. These are easy though. I wouldn't discount an ST on those reasons only.

If you are buying the car to swap a 3SGTE into, I would suggest aiming for a GT coupe with no options, or an ST.

angryyoungnpoor
07-18-2007, 08:06 PM
I'd have rather started off with an ST. It's more like a 300 to 400 pound difference. The welding of the motor mounts on an st is not bad at all. The stock suspension is not necessary as you'd probably want to change it out eventually anyways. The brakes on that thing are probably gonna need to be changed anyway. Custom fab some gt rotors.

Cavanagh
07-18-2007, 09:13 PM
Thats deffinatley a ST with a wicked beige color paint job.

extremeskillz
07-18-2007, 09:48 PM
I can't stress this enough.

That is not a GT coupe.

That is an ST.

If you are not 100% certain about what differentiates the models differences, stop telling someone what that is.

I am 100% certain that is a `92-`93 ST.

oH IVE SEEN THEM AS GT HERE. I AM AWARE OF THE ST AS THOSE ARE WHAT SPANISH PPL DRIVE AROUND HERE AND I ALWAYS SEE GT COUPES. COUPlE NICE ONES BUT THE REST RICE ROCKETS.

Joeye27
07-18-2007, 09:49 PM
Wow! all of you are wrong! that is the Limited Edition Celica/Supra only 10 of them were ever made haha j/k :D

good luck with the sell, nice price. :bigthumbu

keep us posted

extremeskillz
07-18-2007, 09:52 PM
if i am wrong then these clowns driving around with them hrer that say GT on them probably make there ego better. I do not know and do not care. Carry on.

david in germany
07-18-2007, 09:55 PM
My vote goes to the 92-93 st, Just like mine. :)
ST also came with the 3 piece spoiler and some GTs never came with one. The 5 lugs are typical for ALL Celicas after 92 and you can tell it is a 92 or 93 based on the bumper and position of the fog light cutouts. Tell tail sign of the ST was the black trim as mentioned. All of you saying GT...
Kiss Murg's butt.

extremeskillz
07-18-2007, 09:57 PM
If thats true can you explain the ones i see down in RI and Mass that say GT on them which is about 5 and the rest are ST?

turbo4ag
07-18-2007, 10:21 PM
The thing I learned was the 92+ ST had 5 lug, which I never knew. Thats the only reason I hesitated. The black molding & wing gave it away as an ST.

As far as starting with an ST for a 3SGTE swap, it does not make any sense to get that car other than the looks of it. Because I have an AE92 GTS Corolla which has better brakes and better suspension stock, and weighs in less than a bare bones ST. On top of that I have gutted my car, have fuel pump and full Megasquirt standalone installed. To boot on top of all of this, in an AE92, you dont need a crossmember or transmission mount, only a timing belt side mount, everything else stock.

"Then why do you want the Celica?" you ask....

Only because of the looks of the Celica, and that easily available RC bumper which can house and give good airflow to a large FMIC.

If I could fit as large an intercooler in the front of the Corolla as the Celi, I'd be satisfied, but it cant. And all the aftermarket bodykits are lame. My last resort may be to get an Origin Labs AE86 body kit then mold it and modify to fit my car. But thats a last resort.

I think I will just save my money, buy a 3SGTE, build it up, then at that point decide to either put it in my current car or get a Celica. But I really like the look of the Celica 1000x any Corolla. They just look so damn aggressive.

BTW. Can I put the RC/CS bumper on an ST? What about GT Coupe spoiler?

James123
07-24-2007, 04:39 AM
I would say thats a GT. looks like mine but mine is a 91"
http://www.celispeed.com/photos/data/500/medium/car1.JPG

G.W
07-24-2007, 03:37 PM
The VIN on my 93 say its a gt coupe

Playfortoday
07-24-2007, 04:38 PM
I would say thats a GT. looks like mine but mine is a 91"


Please read the thread. It has already been firmly established that the car is an ST for a ton of reasons. The GT is a narrow body like the ST and they do look similar. But similar is not enough. You need to know the small subtleties.


A thread like this pops up every 6 months and they are so both frustrating and so fun to read almost every time. Especially, when someone brings in the STX as a real factory-made celica. The "X" in "STX" was a box of parts and stickers that were applied at the dealership as a dealer add-on. The same went for the supposed "GTX" that has been mentioned in thread like these, yet I have never seen a picture of one, and even if I did, I wouldn't believe it without a factory issued VIN report or an original window sticker.

As everyone said, the molding is the first give away. I think the option on a GT for painted molding was called "color-keyed" painted trim and mirrors or something similar to that. The only thing definitely about an 14 to 17 year old car with multiple owners, possible multiple crashes, with possible multiple bone-headed body shops knowing that almost every single part narrow body is interchangeable, and the same goes for a wide body's interchangeability.

Let's assume that a 5th gen ST got into an accident... If a body repair shop needed a 90 ST bumper and hood and called a dealership or a yard, a guy like Toyota_Todd in parts could say... you know, Vern, I don't show any 90 ST bumpers in stock in your area, but I do show 4 93 GT bumpers in stock in Columbia, and they are a direct replacement....

What do you think would happen? The car get the face lift as a bonus just due to parts availability. So for the love of god, guys, please stop arguing and picking every little point and trust our veteran members here. And to the single post voters, please don't just pop in and give your vote without reading all that transpires in a thread like this first. It just robs the thread of any stability.

Personal note: I was at target over the weekend and say a 92-93 ST (non-riced) with the higher rise three-piece wing reserved for the 92 and all of 93 GT (The wing was almost as tall as an GTS/alltrac's, but did not wrap around as far.) It could have been a post accident replacement by a shop, it could have been a special request from the original buyer that ordered the car, or it could have been done as a mod by a recent owner. All I know is that is looked stock and had identical paint aging and fade as the rest of the car's body. And I looked closely.

Bottom line: Get a VIN. Done. Otherwise, listen to our forum vets and moderators.

To tell you how hard it is to guess, I have always been haunted by thoughts that the 92-93 Alltrac outside pieces of the wing wrapped farther around the body than the 92-93 GT-S and that the center pedestal looked like a higher rise. Personally, I think I am crazy and completely wrong, especially since I never heard in over 10 years someone asking for an all-trac wing over a gt-s wing, because it was taller or bigger. Never confirmed that though and never had a tape to measure. I pretty much positive they are the same, and that the sweet aura of the ST-185 just makes it look bigger :hehe: :laugh:

T-spoon
07-24-2007, 04:46 PM
Please read the thread. It has already been firmly established that the car is an ST for a ton of reasons. The GT is a narrow body like the ST and they do look similar. But similar is not enough. You need to know the small subtleties.


A thread like this pops up every 6 months and they are so both frustrating and so fun to read almost every time. Especially, when someone brings in the STX as a real factory-made celica. The "X" in "STX" was a box of parts and stickers that were applied at the dealership as a dealer add-on. The same went for the supposed "GTX" that has been mentioned in thread like these, yet I have never seen a picture of one, and even if I did, I wouldn't believe it without a factory issued VIN report or an original window sticker.

As everyone said, the molding is the first give away. I think the option on a GT for painted molding was called "color-keyed" painted trim and mirrors or something similar to that. The only thing definitely about an 14 to 17 year old car with multiple owners, possible multiple crashes, with possible multiple bone-headed body shops knowing that almost every single part narrow body is interchangeable, and the same goes for a wide body's interchangeability.

Let's assume that a 5th gen ST got into an accident... If a body repair shop needed a 90 ST bumper and hood and called a dealership or a yard, a guy like Toyota_Todd in parts could say... you know, Vern, I don't show any 90 ST bumpers in stock in your area, but I do show 4 93 GT bumpers in stock in Columbia, and they are a direct replacement....

What do you think would happen? The car get the face lift as a bonus just due to parts availability. So for the love of god, guys, please stop arguing and picking every little point and trust our veteran members here. And to the single post voters, please don't just pop in and give your vote without reading all that transpires in a thread like this first. It just robs the thread of any stability.

Personal note: I was at target over the weekend and say a 92-93 ST (non-riced) with the higher rise three-piece wing reserved for the 92 and all of 93 GT (The wing was almost as tall as an GTS/alltrac's, but did not wrap around as far.) It could have been a post accident replacement by a shop, it could have been a special request from the original buyer that ordered the car, or it could have been done as a mod by a recent owner. All I know is that is looked stock and had identical paint aging and fade as the rest of the car's body. And I looked closely.

Bottom line: Get a VIN. Done. Otherwise, listen to our forum vets and moderators.

To tell you how hard it is to guess, I have always been haunted by thoughts that the 92-93 Alltrac outside pieces of the wing wrapped farther around the body than the 92-93 GT-S and that the center pedestal looked like a higher rise. Personally, I think I am crazy and completely wrong, especially since I never heard in over 10 years someone asking for an all-trac wing over a gt-s wing, because it was taller or bigger. Never confirmed that though and never had a tape to measure. I pretty much positive they are the same, and that the sweet aura of the ST-185 just makes it look bigger :hehe: :laugh:


Just to lend some real support to how true this is, a guy came in with an 07 Camry wanting a key cut because the key was lost on the car. It has the SE side skirts, bumper valence etc. and was badged as an XLE. Furthermore, the VIN would not bring up a key code through Toyota USA at all, so the car came from probably Mexico or Canada and ended up in Houston. Also, the VIN plates on the car did not all match each other. The driver fender was off a USDM Camry LE (in fact, a gulf states toyota so somewhere in TX, LA etc.) while the rest of the panels shared that non USDM VIN#. While built in the US, it wasn't for the US market.

After it came down to it, we found the car came from an auction and was purchased without the alarm transmitter key which is why it was missing.

So even almost brand new cars can turn up with questions of what they really are, what trim etc. If you saw a picture of the front end of this camry, you'd say SE, but it definitely was not an SE. This kind of thing coupled with Dealer and Port options as well as aftermarket additions really can bring these things into question.

turbo4ag
07-24-2007, 09:14 PM
BTW, I call to confirm anyway. I finally got him and he said it was an ST.

Cavanagh
07-24-2007, 09:35 PM
Yes, you can fit a CS/RC Bumper Cover on a ST.