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VT_RainMan
07-18-2007, 03:26 AM
Hi I'm new here... of course. I am thinking about buy a 72 ST. The guy is asking $2500... but, I'm sure he'll take 1500 or less. I've posted on a few other sites... but, i'm not getting much of a response.

Help me convince my girlfriend that this is a good buy.

Here's some more info..
The car has 89k original miles (so he says)
Engine wise it's okay... starts right up, idles good, and doesnt smoke.
-It needs, clutch master/slave cylinder (pedal drops to the floor).. (I'll do lines too) $100 bucks?
-Brakes are crap (pedal drops to the floor also).. maybe it just needs new lines, fluid, bleeding. I'm hoping
-It has some carb or timing issues.. the engine doesnt want to stop after the ignition is turned off??
-Slight ticking... probably normal for a 35yr car. Plus the car sat for 3yrs.

Body is good.. no rust, painted 5-7yrs ago.. it does need some minor touch-ups on the non-painted pieces(badges, vents, vinyl top)
-All of the body panels are lining up nice and doors/trunk are smooth and tight..
-Bumpers are perfectly chromed.. very small dent on each.
-Frame is solid.. no rust anywhere underneath.
-Interior is crap... carpets are ripped out, seats are cracked, the headliner is about the only cloth salvageable.
-All of the guages, lights, ebrake, etc. are working

I can fix and clean up most of it pretty cheap... the brakes and carb/timing issues are the worse of it. But, what's a project car without some issues.

What's everyone else think?? Any input would be greatly appreciated. I gotta convince my girl and give this guy an answer soon.

MCcelica
07-18-2007, 03:37 AM
$2500 may be a little steep. Judging by the info you have posted $1500 would be a good offer. Maybe if you could take some pictures of the whole car (int, ext, engine bay, cargo area etc) would help too.

CollapsedNut
07-18-2007, 04:23 AM
sounds like a fun project car, probably not a good daily driver though. i would make it a nice drag car with no interior

The Captain
07-18-2007, 04:39 AM
Always better to ask forgiveness than permission.

If you want it, go buy it.

Luni
07-18-2007, 05:24 AM
I like John. Hes the man.

I think hes right too. If its something you want to do, and you can afford it, and have the time to put into it, do it.

If it puts you out financially or you already have prior commitments with your time, I dont know if Id do it, but hell, if its what you want, if its your dream, go for it :)

andy
07-18-2007, 05:58 AM
buy that shit, those cars are sexy as hell.

Murgatroy
07-18-2007, 08:52 AM
With the amount of issues you listed, even $1500 is too steep. I wouldn't go anymore than $1000. Unless I had complete faith in the cost of parts and what it would take to repair it.

It defeats the purpose to pay $1500+ for a car that you will turn around and pour $1000 into to make it reliable.

If the body is totally straight and there is no rust, it might be worth it. But you have to understand the amount of gremlins that might be lurking in it. The interior is going to be near impossible to source.

I would do it only if it were a project car. To return it to stock you would need at minimum another parts car or a very dedicated search. If you want to go with a complete custom theme, custom interior and engine combo, it would be a perfect candidate.

The price still makes me touchy. I don't like to pay more than $1000 for something I know is gonna need a lot of work.

Hiko
07-18-2007, 09:08 AM
IMO, if it is truly rust free, then it is worth $1500. First gens are really rare out in the east from what I hear, so they can command a higher price. Also, this is not a 75-77, 71-74's also can get more money.

Be forwarned, though. Parts are starting to get hard to find for these cars, and refer to my east coast comment for the odds of finding one (esp. 71-74) in a junkyard.

1990CelicaGT-S
07-18-2007, 10:44 AM
Go for it and just don't tell the girlfriend.

VT_RainMan
07-18-2007, 05:37 PM
Thanks for everyone's comments... I've done the buy it and opologize later thing too many times to my girlfriend. (we're at the buying ring/engagement state). You know how that goes. But, I got some pretty good responses last night. So, I think she's sold... well, maybe just accepting the fact I am not going to change my mind. :)

With the help of everyone's comments, I have a pretty good game plan now. And for the most part feel confident in my decision. I'm taking a last look at it tonight. I'm offering $750 to start... and I'm hopeful I can get him down to $1200... but only if he fixes the brakes. Just because I want to drive safely home with it.

I think this car has great lines and destined to be a classic.

I'll start by just getting it running and driveable... I figure $500 dollars max and my time is all it needs. I'll be patient with parts. So far, I've had pretty good luck finding parts like clutch master/slave cylinder and lines. I know the interior is going to be a PITA. But, I'm good at that. I'll probably make it presentable with what I can find quickly... and keep my eyes and ears open for odds and ends. I have a semi-connection to a reupholster in the area. But, I can simply cover the seats to start.... and work my way up to a full restore. If it doesnt go that way... than I'm just going the custom route... but, keeping as much stock as possible. I won't hack it... I hate that.

Anyway, I'm bringing my camera tonight... I'll take some pics and keep you posted. Wish me luck!

Thanks again!

VT_RainMan
07-19-2007, 02:48 AM
Well... after waiting and waiting for this guy to get back to me, He finally calls and sets the date for tomorow. So, looks like another long day of anticipation.

Oh well.. what's one more day.

VT_RainMan
07-20-2007, 02:52 PM
Okay.. I met with him and took one more look at her. I got him down to $1500... which was my cut-off price. He wouldn't budge below it. So, I walked away and told him to call me if he changed his mind. I'll see if he calls. This guy is a long story...

Here are some pics...

The lighting wasnt good at all. I think she's pretty close to becoming really nice. Interior is another story.

FRONT PASSENGER SIDE
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1145/856523152_7e6f89187e.jpg

FRONT DRIVERS SIDE
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1130/856456600_47da095f7c.jpg

What do you think? She's pretty, isn't she!

turbo4ag
07-20-2007, 02:56 PM
Why again do you think this is such a steal?

It will be an endless money pool due to the fact that finding any interior and exterior parts will be near impossible. And when you do find good clean body or interior parts, the people will want to charge an arm and both legs.

Girlfriends usually take stance on the initial common sense to the situation when it comes to cars. You might want to reconsider on this one.

VT_RainMan
07-20-2007, 03:18 PM
Well... the body is solid. There is nothing missing or needed there.. just some clean-up. The interior is crap and needs to be cleaned up. That's true.

But, I took another look (should've taken pictures).
-The dash isn't cracked and in pretty good shape.
-The door panels/arm rests are not cracked. just need to be cleaned up.. all the hardware is solid.
-The rear window shelf (name?) can be replaced either with cloth or a painted board.
-Seats... need reupholstering (Or I'll go aftermarket on them)?
-Carpet can be replaced by using... well carpet. I do not need to get factory carpet.
-Headliner has no holes, watermarks, or tears..
-The orginal radio still works and even lifts/lowers the electric antenae. (woh!) That's just cool... they dont make them like that anymore!!!!
The rest of the interior is clean up.... and getting creative. (no money)

The car has 89k miles on it and never been in an accident. Not a bit of bondo on that body.... I checked it all the way around. I can get the entire brake system, clutch, and suspension pieces + all the bearing, seals, bushings for around $500 bucks.

Engine needs a tune-up and hoses replaced... that's it.

Besides the seats... where's is this huge expense? I'm not paying labor.. it's just my time I invest in it.

When I'm done cleaning the car up it will be worth $4000 easy with only $2000 put into the car. I know you have to find a buyer... but, I'm really not selling it. This is for my enjoyment.

I think I'm doing good.

VT_RainMan
07-20-2007, 03:20 PM
Oh and it needs fluids all the way around.

Murgatroy
07-20-2007, 08:30 PM
That doesn't seem that bad then. Not seeing it in person makes it harder to judge.

Joeye27
07-21-2007, 01:24 AM
Get classic car---- loose girlfriend ----get new girlfriend with classic car. :D

j/k IF you like the oldschool nice project car for you. :bigthumbu

phantom240
07-21-2007, 03:20 AM
I honestly wouldn't get it.
Here's why:
--You're getting ready to buy an engagement ring, meaning you need to start saving for other costs that come with the territory down the road a ways.
--Back to the first point, you also may or may not have the time necessary to complete the car in a timely manner, i.e. it will sit and rot.
--It will require some skill on your part for searching and dealing to get the non-mechanical parts necessary to complete the car
--Girlfriends don't like project cars (trust me here)
--Is it an 'Elanor' for you? Or just something you would like to have? For instance, my s13 convertible I just bought wouldn't have really interested me, but it is my 'Elanor' (see 'Gone in 60 Seconds') that I have never had the chance to get my hands on and due to the car's productions numbers and survival rate, I knew I may never have the chance again. Will you have the chance to get another one from this era, maybe not as good looking, when you are more financially stable and have more time?
--How quick will it be sold if you don't get it? I.e. how much time to you have to think about it.
--Do you have space to store it and work on it?

All these things need to be considered before jumping head first into a ridiculously old project car.

Murgatroy
07-21-2007, 09:05 AM
I honestly wouldn't get it.
Here's why:
--You're getting ready to buy an engagement ring, meaning you need to start saving for other costs that come with the territory down the road a ways.
--Back to the first point, you also may or may not have the time necessary to complete the car in a timely manner, i.e. it will sit and rot.
--It will require some skill on your part for searching and dealing to get the non-mechanical parts necessary to complete the car
--Girlfriends don't like project cars (trust me here)
--Is it an 'Elanor' for you? Or just something you would like to have? For instance, my s13 convertible I just bought wouldn't have really interested me, but it is my 'Elanor' (see 'Gone in 60 Seconds') that I have never had the chance to get my hands on and due to the car's productions numbers and survival rate, I knew I may never have the chance again. Will you have the chance to get another one from this era, maybe not as good looking, when you are more financially stable and have more time?
--How quick will it be sold if you don't get it? I.e. how much time to you have to think about it.
--Do you have space to store it and work on it?

All these things need to be considered before jumping head first into a ridiculously old project car.
In reference to the movie I think the phrase you are looking for is 'Is it your Unicorn?' Being it is a mythical creature that you can never catch.

Not all women hate the idea of project cars. I have known quite a few that loved to get greasy with me underneath them. The idea of knowing that their man's car is better looking or faster than some other women's man's car is a turn on to them. I still remember the day I pulled my Camaro out of the field. I had my ex with me, the car was a rusted out dirty heap that wouldn't turn over and was sitting on 4 flats. She fell in love with it instantly. The fact that our wedding was 6 months away and I was pouring a good grand a month into it never bothered her.

Jessie, my wife, knows about my fanatical addiction to cars. She is comfortable with it. As a matter of fact, she is the one that found Mudhoney for me. I came home from work one day, she knew I was in the market for another Celica, and here she had already searched for a few locally.

The biggest issue with the car is gonna be the sourcing the parts for it. They don't exactly grow on trees. But if he feels confident in his ability to find them and restore the car, more power to him. If he feels that for $1500 is was a good purchase, excellent. Personally I wouldn't have given more than $1000 for it. Currently I couldn't have justified the purchase at all. I suspect since he could, that is why he know owns it.

VT_RainMan
07-21-2007, 09:52 PM
I honestly wouldn't get it.
Here's why:
--You're getting ready to buy an engagement ring, meaning you need to start saving for other costs that come with the territory down the road a ways.
--Back to the first point, you also may or may not have the time necessary to complete the car in a timely manner, i.e. it will sit and rot.
--It will require some skill on your part for searching and dealing to get the non-mechanical parts necessary to complete the car
--Girlfriends don't like project cars (trust me here)
--Is it an 'Elanor' for you? Or just something you would like to have? For instance, my s13 convertible I just bought wouldn't have really interested me, but it is my 'Elanor' (see 'Gone in 60 Seconds') that I have never had the chance to get my hands on and due to the car's productions numbers and survival rate, I knew I may never have the chance again. Will you have the chance to get another one from this era, maybe not as good looking, when you are more financially stable and have more time?
--How quick will it be sold if you don't get it? I.e. how much time to you have to think about it.
--Do you have space to store it and work on it?

All these things need to be considered before jumping head first into a ridiculously old project car.

First of all... You have no idea about my finances.
Second... You do not know anything about what time I have to put into this car.
Third... What kind of skill I have or resources I have.

Do you think I would even consider purchasing a car with out thinking everything through? If that were the case I wouldn't have looked around and asked opinions from others. WTF? Do you think you know me? I know you are trying to be helpful. I'm sorry if I seem pissed. I'm not really, just wondering where you think you are coming from.

This is not an Eleanor (unicorn). I am quite familiar with the movie reference. (fable creature, impossible to catch). I own both the original movie and the Nicholas Cage version. Believe me, I have watched both many times (to the point of annoying the hell out of my girlfriend) LOL. Anyway, this car was by no means sought after. The car wasnt even advertised for sale. I just happened to stumble upon it by chance. Talked to the guy about it. He needed money and wanted to get rid of the car. I figured it would be a fun project car. Fate brought us together... and I think she's a beauty who needs rescuing from her current neglect. It makes me sick to see her on the verge of rotting away.

My girlfriend knows I love cars.. she accepts that. She also likes driving/riding the cars I get and fix up. She originally thought 3 cars + hers in our driveway/garage is too much. But, I dont want to sell my Mr2 and she doesnt want me to either. She just needed justification and I did a good job of that. She's okay with it now... and excited. Well, maybe she's excited for me. Eitherway, that's why I love her. Support, understanding, and communication is the key to any relationship. Anyway, this is not where I wanted to go when I posted this thread. I just wanted some support from people who are as committed to cars as I am.

I must have came to the wrong forum?

Murgatroy
07-21-2007, 11:23 PM
No, you are in the right place.

Some folks just don't understand.

amx
07-22-2007, 05:13 AM
I figured it would be a fun project car. Fate brought us together... and I think she's a beauty who needs rescuing from her current neglect. It makes me sick to see her on the verge of rotting away.

I'm right with you on this. How many of these cars have been beat on and neglected because they're not "valuable" (i.e., they're not a domestic and therefore not collectible), they were cheap and from Japan, or whatever other reason? From what you've said in this thread, the price is acceptable to you and you can give her a better home than she has now. If that's the case, by all means do it. In my mind, there's no better feeling than saving a car from that too-common fate of rusting away in someone's backyard. Classics are fun and fulfilling to own. That Celi will be beautiful once she's fixed up, and I guarantee you're going to have people coming out of the woodwork to tell you how cool they think your car is, how they/their brother/their neighbour used to have one just like it, etc etc.

Honestly, I'd like to see more people restoring/preserving vehicles like the first gen Celicas. I hope you stick around this forum and share your progress.

amx
07-22-2007, 05:15 AM
All these things need to be considered before jumping head first into a ridiculously old project car.

additionally, I just want to point out that there is a full 3/4 century of automotive history prior to 1972. With that in mind, a 35-year old car can hardly be considered ridiculously old.

91 celica st
07-22-2007, 05:52 AM
i didnt read the post very well but having a 74 you must remember one thing

parts are hard as fuck to come by

VT_RainMan
07-22-2007, 02:17 PM
Thanks for everyone's recent reply... and to the members that were truly interested.

After holding my breath for an entire night, I got a call yesterday. He accepted $1200 for the car! It's officially mine... pending the bill-of-sale.

He's gonna install the struts, tie rod endlinks, and the brakes(replace the lines and rebleed). I'll probably replace the brake system and the lines in stainless later. Plus the suspension will probably be upgraded too. But, I figure he should do something with the parts instead of letting them sit around.

I'll keep everyone posted on my progress when I get a chance!

Shadowlife25
07-22-2007, 02:43 PM
Score brother! I even like the color :hehe: I'm looking forward to seeing your progress with the car. Have you thought of a name for her/him yet?

Oh, and for the interior, a roll of automotive grade carpeting, some vinyl in your chosen color, 3M glue and some patience go a LONG way for a basic interior resto :D

Also, I demand pictures of EVERYTHING. This promises to be sweet. And if no one has said it: WELCOME to C-Tech!

-Shadow

phantom240
07-22-2007, 03:34 PM
First of all... You have no idea about my finances.
Second... You do not know anything about what time I have to put into this car.
Third... What kind of skill I have or resources I have.

Do you think I would even consider purchasing a car with out thinking everything through? If that were the case I wouldn't have looked around and asked opinions from others. WTF? Do you think you know me? I know you are trying to be helpful. I'm sorry if I seem pissed. I'm not really, just wondering where you think you are coming from.

This is not an Eleanor (unicorn). I am quite familiar with the movie reference. (fable creature, impossible to catch). I own both the original movie and the Nicholas Cage version. Believe me, I have watched both many times (to the point of annoying the hell out of my girlfriend) LOL. Anyway, this car was by no means sought after. The car wasnt even advertised for sale. I just happened to stumble upon it by chance. Talked to the guy about it. He needed money and wanted to get rid of the car. I figured it would be a fun project car. Fate brought us together... and I think she's a beauty who needs rescuing from her current neglect. It makes me sick to see her on the verge of rotting away.

My girlfriend knows I love cars.. she accepts that. She also likes driving/riding the cars I get and fix up. She originally thought 3 cars + hers in our driveway/garage is too much. But, I dont want to sell my Mr2 and she doesnt want me to either. She just needed justification and I did a good job of that. She's okay with it now... and excited. Well, maybe she's excited for me. Eitherway, that's why I love her. Support, understanding, and communication is the key to any relationship. Anyway, this is not where I wanted to go when I posted this thread. I just wanted some support from people who are as committed to cars as I am.

I must have came to the wrong forum?

Jeez, did I stike a nerve or something? First off, I didn't say you were broke, but that project cars do take money. Second, most people here (I would assume) hold pretty steady jobs that require them to work... meaning less time for their cars.

But hey, if ya got the time for it, then by all means, you got a good deal. Keep us posted.

VT_RainMan
07-22-2007, 11:00 PM
Jeez, did I stike a nerve or something? First off, I didn't say you were broke, but that project cars do take money. Second, most people here (I would assume) hold pretty steady jobs that require them to work... meaning less time for their cars.

But hey, if ya got the time for it, then by all means, you got a good deal. Keep us posted.

I was more than a little dissapointed with alot of people's posts by that point. My thread was "Need help convincing my girlfriend" It wasn't... Try to discourage me or convince me not to buy this Celica.

VT_RainMan
07-22-2007, 11:07 PM
Score brother! I even like the color :hehe: I'm looking forward to seeing your progress with the car. Have you thought of a name for her/him yet?

Oh, and for the interior, a roll of automotive grade carpeting, some vinyl in your chosen color, 3M glue and some patience go a LONG way for a basic interior resto :D

Also, I demand pictures of EVERYTHING. This promises to be sweet. And if no one has said it: WELCOME to C-Tech!

-Shadow

Thanks... I appreciate the welcome. and ha-ha.. You're thinking like me on that interior. I'll make it look good with some time and creativity.

I'll have to get to know her before I can give her an appropriate name. I could call her Eleanor for phantom240... j/k :)

I'm definitely going to take lots of pictures of this transformation. I'll probably have tons of questions too. Look forward to getting to know some of you better.

Fuelish
07-22-2007, 11:16 PM
Congrats on scorin' the Celi at a price you're ok with - obviously, you are the one and only one who could determine if it was "worth" it .... I once had a '75 (bought it from my dad when I graduated from college in '80) was a fun fun car - wishing you much success with the "project", and, welcome to celicatech. Man, I haven't seen an old old Celi in person since I can't remember when (am getting old, anymore ;) ). Keep us updated on progress :cool:

VikingJZ
07-23-2007, 03:38 AM
I was able to get my 72 ST for a steal (PM me for details). I'd pay $1,500 for that car in a heartbeat. My interior is mint, the outside is good considering it's been in Indiana for 35 years. Mine has the same problem with the clutch. You can get the slave and master for $65 on Ebay including shipping.

If you need any help PM me and I can give you some more information.

VikingJZ
07-23-2007, 03:41 AM
Oh and parts aren't THAT hard to find. You just have to go to a few different stores to get the right part at the right price. Some may have one part, but not the other; and vice-versa for the next store.

Ebay has great stuff for that car.

VT_RainMan
07-23-2007, 02:50 PM
Thanks guys... Yeah, I havent had much trouble finding mechanical parts. I found some interior stuff on ebay. I use rockauto.com a lot. I've found almost if not all the suspension, brake, and clutch parts I could ever need for wicked cheap. (sorry, I'm from new england, hence the wicked word I'll throw around quite a bit.)

Anyway, I will hit ya up for info when the time comes. Hopefully soon... i'm aching to get my hands dirty!