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94_celica_gt
07-07-2007, 11:57 PM
I've got a 5sfe in my 94 celica which is putting out about 160 now after a few minor bolt ons. I set my goal to at least 500hp when i bought the car and would love to take the challenge of accomplishing that goal without an engine swap. I know i could do a 3sgte swap and upgrade the turbo, but with the 5sfe being 0.2L larger, if i boosted it to around 12-15psi and had enough fuel and boost control to perfect the mapping, wouldn't it be equivalent to a 3sgte with the same pressure? I know almost all turbo kits have to be custom made in at least some part of the car, so I'm not worried about building one(piping, mounts, etc) but as far as cams and the valve train are concerned, would it be possible to upgrade them (titanium dual valve springs, retainers, adjustable cam gears, and some slightly narrower cams)? thanks

geebes
07-08-2007, 02:25 AM
Use the search button, you are going to have many naysayers about the capabilities of the 5sfe. But if you have the money to spend...good luck.

What do you have done to your 5sfe that put it up to 240hp ?

extremeskillz
07-08-2007, 02:33 AM
thats what i want to know!

Mr Celica
07-08-2007, 03:00 AM
yeah... bolt ons for a 5sfe? wow i've searched everywhere and can't find anything for bolt ons that add 100+ hp...

best bet is the 3sgte swap, the G heads are better for performance, displacement won't make much of a difference as opposed to the valve angle.

Shadowlife25
07-08-2007, 03:08 AM
Um..... Doesn't the 5sfe put out 135hp? I know the one I had did. Minor bolt-ons like what? Intake and exhaust? SAFC? Cams and gears?

Even if you had done all that it's no where near 240hp even at the flywheel.

Mr Celica
07-08-2007, 03:19 AM
durp.

240 horses just like my dink is 12 inches.

hahaha

extremeskillz
07-08-2007, 03:31 AM
:hehe:

PhillyDRFT
07-08-2007, 06:24 AM
Talk to a guy here named pressure2.

Really... 240 NA hp? I guess you can keep stacking those speed chips off ebay.

135hp 5sfe + 20hp chip + 20hp chip + 20hp chip + 20hp chip + 20hp chip + 5hp chip? That totals out about rite?

Or he's not bullshiting and just running around a 100shot of Nawz. I don't see a 5s taking that kind of abuse though.

I didn't know Mr Celica was smuggeling a pringles can!

this thread is like a crazy bazarro world. Next thing you know 2k is gonna come in here saying his TA gets 48mpg!!!

91 celica st
07-08-2007, 08:27 AM
Talk to a guy here named pressure2.

Really... 240 NA hp? I guess you can keep stacking those speed chips off ebay.

135hp 5sfe + 20hp chip + 20hp chip + 20hp chip + 20hp chip + 20hp chip + 5hp chip? That totals out about rite?


LOL

geebes
07-08-2007, 09:05 AM
Tehe...nice.

extremeskillz
07-08-2007, 01:44 PM
Im surprised he hasn't responded yet. He must have rechecked his dyno slip. Im still wanting to know how hes running 240hp on 5sfe. Philly may be right and hes running NOS. im not saying its not possible but usually this is achieved with boost of some sort.

Ricksta
07-08-2007, 01:47 PM
No

Shadowlife25
07-08-2007, 02:54 PM
No

You lost me there Rick. No what?

Anyhow, I think we scared him off. I apologize man, but you do realize that it is quite an outlandish claim to say you're pulling 240hp NA out of a base 135hp platform with just "minor" bolt-ons. So lets get back on topic and let us know what we can do for you.

-Shadow

celicatrd93
07-08-2007, 05:22 PM
o wow 240 hp with bolt ons, so you are looking to turbo it and get 500hp :wtf: go for it and let us know how it works out. :bigthumbu

5S-FE
07-10-2007, 12:09 AM
I'd love 240hp out of my 5S-FE from bolt-ons. :) *Subscribes to thread*

Shadowlife25
07-10-2007, 01:37 AM
I really do think we scared him off. It's still his only post on the site. :(

celicatrd93
07-10-2007, 02:14 AM
I really do think we scared him off. It's still his only post on the site. :(
i was just about to say that, were the hell is he at, or was this a joke cause its to good to be true. :D

The Captain
07-10-2007, 02:55 AM
Actually, he said his 5sfe was "putting out about 240" however he did not specify the unit of measure.

Perhaps he meant 240 ant power or 240 mouse power. :hehe:

Anybody else have a guess what unit of measure he used?

Mr Celica
07-10-2007, 03:49 AM
pineapple.

240 pineapples= 135 horsepower

DURRRR!

The Captain
07-10-2007, 05:50 PM
240 muskrat power

240 chinchilla power

Hmmm. . .

94_celica_gt
08-23-2007, 05:19 AM
sry about that, lol mega uber typo, i typed it up really quick b4 i had to leave for work and i was thinking about the 240sx that is at the place i work and somehow they fused together =/ lol ya i wish my 5sfe had 240hp XD

andy
08-23-2007, 05:26 AM
dood i do that alot, ill start typing what someone else is talking. ehh. easy and most cost effective way is a 3sgte

Shadowlife25
08-23-2007, 05:41 AM
You edited your post... Now it's not funny anymore :hehe:

Glad we didn't scare you off man. :)

Mr Celica
08-23-2007, 11:09 PM
this thread was only a month old... haha random

Ricksta
08-23-2007, 11:13 PM
You lost me there Rick. No what?

Anyhow, I think we scared him off. I apologize man, but you do realize that it is quite an outlandish claim to say you're pulling 240hp NA out of a base 135hp platform with just "minor" bolt-ons. So lets get back on topic and let us know what we can do for you.

-Shadow

i hope he's got deep pockets if he wants 5-600hp out of a 4 banger. my ass is gonna get me a big block motor and have a 800hp all motor car :)

turbo4ag
08-24-2007, 05:33 PM
I've got a 5sfe in my 94 celica which is putting out about 160 now after a few minor bolt ons.

He realized his mistake and edited his post. Get over it guys.

500hp is attainable, but it takes alot of work and very good tuning. 500hp is the area where nothing should be stock. You'd need rods, pistons, headgasket, head porting, cams, valvesprings, better intake manifold, and of course a capable turbo kit and management.

It'd be easier to just a set of rods and pistons, HG, all ARP hardware, then just use a 150 shot of nitrous, a moderate turbo kit, and very good tuning.

Mr Celica
08-24-2007, 09:59 PM
^? no one said anything after he explained himself...

nuclearhappines
08-24-2007, 10:36 PM
To make a 5sfe do 500hp @ 12-15psi you'd have to make the head flow TWICE what it does now...

to do so and keep it streetable/idleable ... or to do so without taking it to 12000 rpms is practically impossible...

Lower your expectations to below 300 and we can talk 5sfte :p

Amaymi
08-25-2007, 12:22 AM
I'm slowly gathering and preparing parts for a 5sge-t set up. forged rods and pistons, map-ecu 2 (or emanage,or similar), and at first the stock manifold and turbo (rebuilt if needed) from a 3sgte.
I chose this route as apposed to a 3sgte for numerous reasons. First this car is my one and only car so I can't have it down for weeks while I swap in a 3sgte. By going the with a 5sfe I get to put that motor in quickly since most of the wiring will be similar and it will be a straight drop in. Then I can run on the 5sfe for a while while I get the ge head, modifiy it to fit and gather the parts needed for a turbo ready rebuild. I can then rewire the car, pull the motor, replace the internals with the new forgies, and swap the head. I'll run it like this naturally aspirated to break it in and give me time to gather the tuning equipment, turbo, and other supporting mods, and money to get dyno time. Then when I'm ready for it I'll strap the turbo on, give it a good tune that can take daily driver abuse, and have fun with it.
I like the 5s as apposed to the 3sge because of the longer stroke which will help with turbo spool time plus give it, of course, more displacement. My power goals are also quite moderate since it will be a daily driver. I'm shooting for between 200-275 depending on if I'm just driving it on the street or having some fun at the track.
I also like the challenge of putting forced induction to a normally aspirated motor.

I have also considered just swapping the crank from a 5s into my 3sfe and putting the forgies in at the same time and swapping on the ge head. But i haven't found any concrete info telling me that is possible without block modifications. If anybody does know I would appreciated it.

presure2
08-26-2007, 03:34 AM
I'm slowly gathering and preparing parts for a 5sge-t set up. forged rods and pistons, map-ecu 2 (or emanage,or similar), and at first the stock manifold and turbo (rebuilt if needed) from a 3sgte.
I chose this route as apposed to a 3sgte for numerous reasons. First this car is my one and only car so I can't have it down for weeks while I swap in a 3sgte. By going the with a 5sfe I get to put that motor in quickly since most of the wiring will be similar and it will be a straight drop in. Then I can run on the 5sfe for a while while I get the ge head, modifiy it to fit and gather the parts needed for a turbo ready rebuild. I can then rewire the car, pull the motor, replace the internals with the new forgies, and swap the head. I'll run it like this naturally aspirated to break it in and give me time to gather the tuning equipment, turbo, and other supporting mods, and money to get dyno time. Then when I'm ready for it I'll strap the turbo on, give it a good tune that can take daily driver abuse, and have fun with it.
I like the 5s as apposed to the 3sge because of the longer stroke which will help with turbo spool time plus give it, of course, more displacement. My power goals are also quite moderate since it will be a daily driver. I'm shooting for between 200-275 depending on if I'm just driving it on the street or having some fun at the track.
I also like the challenge of putting forced induction to a normally aspirated motor.

I have also considered just swapping the crank from a 5s into my 3sfe and putting the forgies in at the same time and swapping on the ge head. But i haven't found any concrete info telling me that is possible without block modifications. If anybody does know I would appreciated it.
your in for a few suprizes.
#1 doing a 5sgte is NOT a simple, bolt on affair.
#2, it wont run on the 5s ecu, all the sensors off the head (the ones that actually run the motor) will be 3sgte.
#3 if your looking for 200-270hp, why not just turbo the 5sfe, and be done with it?
#4 only the late model(98+) blocks have coolant passages that line up with the 3s head, even then some of them dont for some reason.
#5 the wiring is a 3sgte swap. no way around it.
#6 in order to take advantage of the extra displacement you'll be needing to run a standalone engine management.
good luck.
:Ban1:

Hookecho
08-26-2007, 03:53 AM
just spray it.

Amaymi
08-26-2007, 04:48 AM
#1 doing a 5sgte is NOT a simple, bolt on affair.
I fully understand that, I work at a fully equipped shop with most all tools necessary for the swap and several years of engine rebuilds and mods under my belt.


#2, it wont run on the 5s ecu, all the sensors off the head (the ones that actually run the motor) will be 3sgte.
Also understood. The regular 5sfe WILL run on a 5s ecu and thats all I need from it. Once the ge head is swapped onto the block and i have the forged low comp. pistons and rods i will be going to either a full stand alone or as i said something similar to emanage.

#3 if your looking for 200-270hp, why not just turbo the 5sfe, and be done with it?
Because I like to experiment for one, and two the ge is a better flowing head out of the box. I don't plan to do much to the head, just a good rebuild. The only reason I'm going the extra yard to get forgies is because this is my daily driver and I want reliability. The forgies will handle the abuse of boost better than the stock light weight, economy focused counterparts.

#4 only the late model(98+) blocks have coolant passages that line up with the 3s head, even then some of them don't for some reason.

This will probably not be a problem. I have seen several examples of people making the coolant passages line up by milling the head. This is one reason for why I am wondering if the internals from the 5s will bolt into the 3s block as I have both a 3sfe and a 3sge engine at my disposal.

#5 the wiring is a 3sgte swap. no way around it.

True there is alot of wiring. But in my opinion its easier to start from scratch and wire up exactly what you need for a full stand alone instead of Frankensteining 2 existing old wiring harnesses.

#6 in order to take advantage of the extra displacement you'll be needing to run a standalone engine management.
Again this is understood. There is a very good dyno shop where I'll be able to tune the car with whatever tuning system I go with. This is another area where I have experience with. Not in Toyota's, but in other forced induction and heavily modified motors.

I think this would be an interesting project and is really the main reason why I'm doing it. Your car is a good example of how well the nice long (relatively) stroke takes to turbo charging and the ge head has been proven in turbo applications. Instead of paying a lot of money for a 3sgte motor, I can spend less than a quarter of that purchasing the 5s motor. If I got the 3sgte I would also have to go out and buy a 5s crank and internals that will work with the block. And either way I would want to run a tuning system, not just the 3sgte ecu.

I dunno it makes sense to me and I'm willing to put in the resources necessary to make this project work.

presure2
09-15-2007, 02:17 PM
this is NOT an "experiment"
hit mr2oc and read about the dozens of diffrent stroker setups over there.
nothing new.
as far as reliable,
ive been over 2 yrs 30k+.
with NO engine issues at all.
if thats not reliable, i dont know what is. most of the guys that i know that have swapped have had MORE problems that i did. lol
for a sub300whp goal, a stroker is just pointless, other than for bragging rights. :wedge:

KoreanJoey
09-15-2007, 03:43 PM
um... even w/ the edit... I'd like to hear how he measured 160 on his 5SFE... people need to understand that product manufacturers will say WHATEVER they can to sell stuff...

Go hit up a good dyno. They won't lie to you.

Brand new Toyota 5SFE block = 105HP to the wheels
160HP at crank should be = 124.4hp

Amaymi
09-23-2007, 06:14 PM
Nothing new for the community but new for me on this engine. I don't doubt the reliability of your set up, in fact your set up is what got me thinking about this build and the fact that it is still up and running.

The forged internals and fully balanced bottom end will not only be for daily driving reliability, but also for the ability to turn up the boost and beat on it at the track, and for the ability to handle more power later on down the road when I get bored with the 275. I want to keep my options open and don't want to have to crack this motor open again for a good while.

As for the 2.2 stroker, it will make a big difference even under 300 hp. It will help shift the torque curve lower in the rpm range and since I will be running the ct20b turbo, I wont run out of head room in the upper rpms. Again, giving me the option for more power in the future and making the car more fun on the street where I won't be able to stay above 3500 all the time. Also, especially if paired with the right cams and a good tune, it will help the turbo spool quicker.

This build is for me to experiment with the different compatibilities within the Toyota S- series engine family and for my and my friends' own personal enjoyment. No bragging. Just good fun. Like your having with yours :bigthumbu