PDA

View Full Version : How Fast Is The ST?



Goins05
07-07-2007, 09:13 PM
I just bought a ST model and I have to get some work dont to it. I haven't really got the chance to drive it yet but wanted to know how is the performance. How is it when it takes off and how does it adjust afterwards.

david in germany
07-07-2007, 09:29 PM
Depends, Mine is a 93 US specs but purchased in Germany. I have a top speed of 135mph. Many of them are governed at 115mph or less. The takeoff is not that great but what can you say, we have a car that will pull 33+ mpg per tank :)

90CelicaST
07-07-2007, 09:31 PM
Performance and a stock ST don't belong in the same sentence.

amx
07-07-2007, 09:32 PM
My ST's pretty quick. I totally smoked a shopping cart the other day.

TEAMFaint
07-07-2007, 09:33 PM
How fast is the ST?


Slow.

extremeskillz
07-07-2007, 09:33 PM
^werd. Thats why they have a gt and gt-s. 3sgte swaps are common on those models tho and make perfect sleepers.

T-spoon
07-07-2007, 09:34 PM
^werd. Thats why they have a gt and gt-s. 3sgte swaps are common on those models tho and make perfect sleepers.

Meh, as far as performance goes, I'd rather have a 5spd ST than an auto GT or GT-S.

extremeskillz
07-07-2007, 09:36 PM
Meh, as far as performance goes, I'd rather have a 5spd ST than an auto GT or GT-S.

If i recall correctly they came in 5spd manual as well.

andy
07-07-2007, 09:37 PM
yeah i hope so, ive got a 5sp model, or is mine ultra mega rare with its s53 tranny

Ghosty
07-07-2007, 09:41 PM
The performance is somewhere between a hamster and a small dog.






In all seriousness, it's no toooorque monzzzzzter, but it's fine. Really.

Doesn't have a terrible amount of go, but it handles nice and crisp. That's probably one of the most enjoyable aspects of the car, how nimble it is. That's mostly due to how light it is... 2,500 pounds. And it came with 103 horsepower, but of course, that's probably not what the old car will put out anymore.

Even with such low power, I think it will still put a smile on your face from time to time.

T-spoon
07-07-2007, 09:50 PM
If i recall correctly they came in 5spd manual as well.

No way?? Seriously????

I was merely pointing out that just being an ST did not automatically make everything else in the world faster.

I'd still rather have a 5spd ST than an auto GT or GTS

extremeskillz
07-07-2007, 09:59 PM
^Got ya now. peace.

Mr E
07-07-2007, 10:01 PM
Our old one ran laughing gas for a while. Went bloody fast until it lunched piston #3....

Cavanagh
07-07-2007, 10:29 PM
^werd. Thats why they have a gt and gt-s. 3sgte swaps are common on those models tho and make perfect sleepers.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but gt/gts arn't that much faster.
Use your car for econmy, or swap that 4afe out if you want performance.

91 celica st
07-07-2007, 10:30 PM
Performance and a stock ST don't belong in the same sentence.
how so when my st would have outran 90% the cars on this site?

NDMstang65
07-07-2007, 10:42 PM
how so when my st would have outran 90% the cars on this site?


Eh, the 4afe will get you from point a to point b economically, which was its full intention anyways....but fast and that engine/car "stock" do not belong in the same sentence.

91 celica st
07-07-2007, 10:50 PM
in the 90's there are hardly any cars that are factory "fast". most cars that werent boosted are 16+ cars anyway

2kSnakEater
07-07-2007, 11:29 PM
how so when my st would have outran 90% the cars on this site?



:ugh:


90% of the STs on this site maybe. Ricky's ST is not half bad but then again he's got a 94 with the 7afe. I dont know the difference between the 4afe and the 7afe.

85gtsblackman
07-07-2007, 11:32 PM
he said that cause his car is turbo

once i get done with the re ill run u down, if that fails ill get the red car

Cavanagh
07-07-2007, 11:38 PM
:ugh:


90% of the STs on this site maybe. Ricky's ST is not half bad but then again he's got a 94 with the 7afe. I dont know the difference between the 4afe and the 7afe.
Lmao it has 7 MORE hp then a 5th gens 4afe does. :slap: i forgot too that rick owned one.

85gtsblackman
07-07-2007, 11:50 PM
6th gen st are slower due to trans gearing

Ghosty
07-08-2007, 12:09 AM
Lmao it has 7 MORE hp then a 5th gens 4afe does. :slap: i forgot too that rick owned one.

Well, let's not forget the extra 200 cubic centimeters of displacement!

Same compression as the 4AFE, at 9.5:1.
Same bore, 81mm. However, longer stroke (85.5mm) than the 4AFE (76.9mm).

Performance wise, there's a considerable difference.

The 7AFE's 115hp come in at 5600 rpm, whereas the 4AFE's 105hp at 5800 rpm. Only 200 rpm sooner, but...

The 7AFE's 115ft-lb come in at 2800 rpm. 4AFE's 101ft-lb at 4800 rpm. A whole 2000 rpm sooner!

TEAMFaint
07-08-2007, 12:30 AM
Toyota Celica ST: 103 hp
Toyota Celica GT/GTS: 135 hp

30 horsepower may not be a big difference. But it is definately a difference.

So I dont know how you can judge that the GTS isnt that much quicker than a ST? I've driven in a ST, and the power difference between a 5SFE is quite large I must say.

At least with the 5SFE first and second gear have some sort of balls attached to them.

With the ST, no gear has any go.


I still wouldnt mind a ST for a daily driver however.

GT4SOM
07-08-2007, 12:55 AM
This thread should be renamed to "How slow is the st." I think thats enough with that being said.

91 celica st
07-08-2007, 02:17 AM
:ugh:


90% of the STs on this site maybe. Ricky's ST is not half bad but then again he's got a 94 with the 7afe. I dont know the difference between the 4afe and the 7afe.

i ran a 14 in my st...so yes unless you can show me a timeslip of your TA running better than my time my car is faster than urs

and yes i posted timeslips when i ran it.

91 celica st
07-08-2007, 02:19 AM
Toyota Celica ST: 103 hp
Toyota Celica GT/GTS: 135 hp

30 horsepower may not be a big difference. But it is definately a difference.

So I dont know how you can judge that the GTS isnt that much quicker than a ST? I've driven in a ST, and the power difference between a 5SFE is quite large I must say.

At least with the 5SFE first and second gear have some sort of balls attached to them.

With the ST, no gear has any go.


I still wouldnt mind a ST for a daily driver however.

300 HP yes. but the gt weighs 200-250 pounds more and gt-s is 300-350 more (depending on options). the ST rapes the vert. and with just a header and intake i beat both my buddys gt celicas 92 and 93

i must have driven around 5-7 gt/s's and my st wtih intake header and exhuast is faster than every single one of them

91 celica st
07-08-2007, 02:20 AM
This thread should be renamed to "How slow is the st." I think thats enough with that being said.
all 5th gens are slow. including the gt/s and all trac so how about we change it to "how slow are 5th gen celicas"

extremeskillz
07-08-2007, 02:37 AM
Sorry to burst your bubble, but gt/gts arn't that much faster.
Use your car for econmy, or swap that 4afe out if you want performance.

Well i do not have any complaints coming from here.

Chris
07-08-2007, 02:47 AM
i must have driven around 5-7 gt/s's and my st wtih intake header and exhuast is faster than every single one of them


Is that header and exhaust with your turbo?

Mr Celica
07-08-2007, 02:57 AM
i'm pretty sure we're discussing stock 5sfe's compared to stock 4afe's. no turbos, headers, exhaust yadda yadda. a gt/gt-s will beat an ST stock. plus it handles better with "performance" suspension parts. they made the ST for an economy car, not a performance car. and yes, a turbo-ed ST should beat a stock GT-S. but put a 3sgte or turbo the 5sfe, and the GT-S would have a better chance. higher displacement, better heads, etc etc.

extremeskillz
07-08-2007, 03:01 AM
^See everyone. Someone has brains. I will leave it there.

Mr Celica
07-08-2007, 03:05 AM
:)

vip09
07-08-2007, 04:32 AM
i ran a 14 in my st...so yes unless you can show me a timeslip of your TA running better than my time my car is faster than urs

and yes i posted timeslips when i ran it.

Umm.. my bone stock GT-S ran a 14.... congrats??

celicaracing71
07-08-2007, 05:13 AM
alright we all got celicas here y we all hating on the st i belive im quoteing someone here but have u ever heard of the elise small engine but light could easily smoke other cars w/ lighter engines now im not saying that someone could easily smoke a gt or a gts in a st cuz itz hard but i have a 93 w/ 250k+ miles and it can run good w/ other cars also have u all heard the saying itz only 20% the car and 80% the driver

Joeye27
07-08-2007, 07:07 AM
all 5th gens are slow. including the gt/s and all trac so how about we change it to "how slow are 5th gen celicas"

:yupnope: :nono: :nono: :nono:

91 celica st
07-08-2007, 08:09 AM
Is that header and exhaust with your turbo?
was intake header exhaust. then turbo. had to take it off cuz i got reffed and just got another ticket.

91 celica st
07-08-2007, 08:15 AM
i'm pretty sure we're discussing stock 5sfe's compared to stock 4afe's. no turbos, headers, exhaust yadda yadda. a gt/gt-s will beat an ST stock. plus it handles better with "performance" suspension parts. they made the ST for an economy car, not a performance car. and yes, a turbo-ed ST should beat a stock GT-S. but put a 3sgte or turbo the 5sfe, and the GT-S would have a better chance. higher displacement, better heads, etc etc.
stock to stock there not much faster. even so why are you trying to compare how "fast" 2 16 second cars are?

wrong. an st will out handle a gt/s with performance suspension compents every day. i dont get how u say it wont when the shells are almost the same on rigidity yet the st weighs a butt load less.

your argument is flawed. you forget the gt/s is an econemy and not "performance" car too

the 5sfe internally (headwise) is just a bigger version of the 4afe. its not a "better" head by any means.

yes a 3sgte swapped gt/s would have a better chance than a boosted st down the road. but id take my boosted st over a 3sgte swapped gt/s any day. and ive had a swap before.

91 celica st
07-08-2007, 08:16 AM
Umm.. my bone stock GT-S ran a 14.... congrats??

was that with un-bolted exhuast and forgies :hehe:

91 celica st
07-08-2007, 08:17 AM
:yupnope: :nono: :nono: :nono:

what you cant accept the fact that no 5th gen celica are fast?

Chris
07-08-2007, 08:19 AM
was intake header exhaust. then turbo. had to take it off cuz i got reffed and just got another ticket.

Well, if it was turbo, of course it's going to be faster. But a stock ST being faster? Maybe in perception, because as far as I know a GT/GTS runs a faster 1/4th mile. Now, handling is an entirely different issue.

91 celica st
07-08-2007, 08:25 AM
Well, if it was turbo, of course it's going to be faster. But a stock ST being faster? Maybe in perception, because as far as I know a GT/GTS runs a faster 1/4th mile. Now, handling is an entirely different issue.

im not debating the gt/s is faster. its just not by much, maybe half a second maybe more, who cares? if your "racing" your probably not stock anyway. and st with I/H/E beats a gt-s with I/H/E. sorry but ive experience this twice and won both times. not by much but still.

i did get molested by a gt with 0 shit in his car i/h/e msd sci. PnP head and an safc. i had intake and header at the time i believe, maybe i had exhaust? dont remember but he fucking rapt me once i hit 3rd.

im not bashing the gt, just defending the ST. id pick a turbo 5sfe over a turbo 4afe if i was going to run in the 1/4. i just prefer mountain runs and the ST is a better platform for it.

Mr E
07-08-2007, 03:05 PM
all 5th gens are slow. including the gt/s and all trac so how about we change it to "how slow are 5th gen celicas"


what you cant accept the fact that no 5th gen celica are fast?


You've obviously never had the pleasure of a properly sorted ST185CS/RC then.

Blackcloud
07-08-2007, 04:49 PM
i thought st stood for "slow toyota" :shrug:

Chris
07-08-2007, 05:25 PM
im not debating the gt/s is faster. its just not by much, maybe half a second maybe more, who cares? if your "racing" your probably not stock anyway. and st with I/H/E beats a gt-s with I/H/E. sorry but ive experience this twice and won both times. not by much but still.


Well yeah, but I'd probably point to either driver skill on your part, or lack of on their part, or possible maintenances issues on their cars.

But I do see what you're getting at.

TEAMFaint
07-08-2007, 05:48 PM
I think someone pee'd in "91 celica st" 's cereal this morning.

What you are saying is nothing but personal opinions. Sorry to break it to ya.

GTS>GT>ST

Its the way it goes. Its the reason why when they were first released in 1990, the GTS way more expensive than the GT, and the GT more than the ST.

Unless you have personally autocrossed a stock ST vs a stock GTS and drove perfect both times, and beat the GTS in the ST. You have nothing but opinions.


And I like the fact of you saying "no 5th gen is fast."
Obviously you have never been in a 5th gen with any sort of bolt on
modifications.
Sure a stock USDM will put 200hp/200torque at ~7 PSI.

How about replacing the ECU with a JDM one, upping to 225/225 torque. Bolt on a 3" exhaust, intake, boost controller. ~$500 for the exhaust, $40 for a MBC, intake around $80. Welcome to ~260HP.

Sorry to say, but that sounds pretty quick to me, no matter how "fat" you think the 5th gen is. Especially if you manage to snag a narrowbody GT-four such as mine.

Mr Celica
07-08-2007, 05:56 PM
stock to stock there not much faster. even so why are you trying to compare how "fast" 2 16 second cars are?

wrong. an st will out handle a gt/s with performance suspension compents every day. i dont get how u say it wont when the shells are almost the same on rigidity yet the st weighs a butt load less.

your argument is flawed. you forget the gt/s is an econemy and not "performance" car too

the 5sfe internally (headwise) is just a bigger version of the 4afe. its not a "better" head by any means.

yes a 3sgte swapped gt/s would have a better chance than a boosted st down the road. but id take my boosted st over a 3sgte swapped gt/s any day. and ive had a swap before.

again you're talking about an ST with aftermarket components on it. my argument is going stock to stock. the ST has a tremendous amount of body roll compared to the GT-S. The shocks are valved differently, and the tires are wider. Your argument was that you would beat a stock GT-S with your turbo, which in fact is probably true. If your car was bone stock, and the GT-S was bone stock, I don't think that would happen, especially not off the line.

ST-
103 hp/ 102 ft/lbs

GT/GTS- 130hp 140 ft/lbs

thats a big difference to me, especially in torque, which matters off the line, and exiting turns.

T-spoon
07-08-2007, 06:29 PM
Guys, the issue here really is that we're all a little upset with Toyota for not really making an out-of-the-box fast Celica. The all-trac is a bit of an odd bird, not produced in large quantities, fairly rare in most areas, and not fast out of the box either, so let's get past that. What the Celica deserved was at least mid 14's straight off the lot but not at the expense of torque. The 7th gen almost did it, but sacrificed too much in terms of the rugged durability most of us love in the 1st-6th gens. The 7th gen isn't a bad car, heck, I have a spyder, so I'm not just flat out hating on the zz motors, but it's just not quite the same.

The Celica deserved a GT-S trim with a 2nd or 3rd gen 3sge or even a 1mz here, and we never got it. We have to argue over the performance differences between the 7a/4afe and the 5sfe. That's just plain sad. But don't sit here biting each others' heads off over which is better. They're good motors for what they are, but they're not the best they could have done with the Celica chassis, which really is a more than respectable chassis. So mourn Toyota's lack of concern over making the Celica bite like it barks, but don't sit and argue over whether the GT or ST shell is better, because that's just plain ridiculous.

turbo4ag
07-08-2007, 07:30 PM
T-Spoon could not have put it any better.
Celicas are not fast, even the All-Trac considering:

Power to Weight Ratio: Weight/Horsepower

All-trac: 16.1
GT Coupe: 19.4
GTS Hatch: 20.4
ST Coupe: 23.8

I personally consider 14.0 and below "fast", 14.1-16.5 "quick", and 16.5 "slow". Those even almost look like quarter mile times. So the USDM All-trac is just quick. Its in the class with SRT-4s and RSXs, which are what I consider quick. A GT/GTS/ST and most of the other USA Toyotas are slow though.

91 celica st
07-08-2007, 08:22 PM
You've obviously never had the pleasure of a properly sorted ST185CS/RC then.
sorry but running high 14's still isnt fast by any means

91 celica st
07-08-2007, 08:29 PM
I think someone pee'd in "91 celica st" 's cereal this morning.

What you are saying is nothing but personal opinions. Sorry to break it to ya.

GTS>GT>ST

Its the way it goes. Its the reason why when they were first released in 1990, the GTS way more expensive than the GT, and the GT more than the ST.

Unless you have personally autocrossed a stock ST vs a stock GTS and drove perfect both times, and beat the GTS in the ST. You have nothing but opinions.


And I like the fact of you saying "no 5th gen is fast."
Obviously you have never been in a 5th gen with any sort of bolt on
modifications.
Sure a stock USDM will put 200hp/200torque at ~7 PSI.

How about replacing the ECU with a JDM one, upping to 225/225 torque. Bolt on a 3" exhaust, intake, boost controller. ~$500 for the exhaust, $40 for a MBC, intake around $80. Welcome to ~260HP.

Sorry to say, but that sounds pretty quick to me, no matter how "fat" you think the 5th gen is. Especially if you manage to snag a narrowbody GT-four such as mine.

i know the gt is faster and handles slightly better stock. but who races a stock car?

my st has I/H/E so yes i have been in a celica with bolt ons. not to mention i had a "bolt on" turbo kit and a "bolt on" 3sgte swap

sorry but just putting the ecu to a jdm one is not going to give you 225/225. thats rated on 100+octane fuel. youll be lucky to see 210/210 HP on USA's 91 pump. and yes ~250 HP on 15PSI. (i know thats what i ran my swap at) okay yea your getting pretty quick here....but didnt i just say no celica came factory fast? no shit they can be made fast. i took an st from its 17 flat 1/4 to 14's with only $1000

"Unless you have personally autocrossed a stock ST vs a stock GTS and drove perfect both times, and beat the GTS in the ST. You have nothing but opinions."
and unless you have driven a stock GTS vs a stock ST YOU have nothing but opinions

91 celica st
07-08-2007, 08:37 PM
again you're talking about an ST with aftermarket components on it. my argument is going stock to stock. the ST has a tremendous amount of body roll compared to the GT-S. The shocks are valved differently, and the tires are wider. Your argument was that you would beat a stock GT-S with your turbo, which in fact is probably true. If your car was bone stock, and the GT-S was bone stock, I don't think that would happen, especially not off the line.

ST-
103 hp/ 102 ft/lbs

GT/GTS- 130hp 140 ft/lbs

thats a big difference to me, especially in torque, which matters off the line, and exiting turns.





please quote me where i said my turbo st would beat a stock gt-s. i didnt. i said i beat gt(s) 's with my bolt on header and exhuast. but i only raced one gt when i had my turbo kit for fun, and it was auto why would i wast my time when i was faster then them with bolt ons?

what you people arent getting is that a gt weighs 250-300 pounds more. and the gt-s weighs 300-400 pounds more. that means alot on the 1/4 and handeling department.

in all the ST is the best platform to go with out of the st, gt, gt-s. its the lightest and you can still fit a 3s-gte in it.

and the 4afe may not be great. but it serves its purpose. its retards like you that make me want to put the new kit on my car and hit 13's just to show you your worng about the 4afe. i already thoguht dascorcha shut u tards up with his 500WHP on a 4afe

Azzazzyn
07-08-2007, 08:44 PM
The ST vs GT arguement is kinda like an age difference. 103 to 135 is a huge difference, but if we were to compare say a supra and a 300zx, which is 300hp and 320hp, its more of a drivers race than the ST vs GT ever could be. Just liek a 17 y/o dating a 12 y/o is wrong, but 30 and 35 is ok

celica91gts
07-08-2007, 08:45 PM
alright we all got celicas here y we all hating on the st i belive im quoteing someone here but have u ever heard of the elise small engine but light could easily smoke other cars w/ lighter engines now im not saying that someone could easily smoke a gt or a gts in a st cuz itz hard but i have a 93 w/ 250k+ miles and it can run good w/ other cars also have u all heard the saying itz only 20% the car and 80% the driver

i raced a beemer m3 once. cocky kid from my school. my cars lighter, has the smaller engine and that kid just started learning stick. i got my ass handed to me. i thik its more 50% car 50% driver.... but i kinda get what ur saying. knew a guy with an h22 swap into his eg hatch. and yeah, he beat turbo cars. but thats an h22. toyota dosent make badass n/a engines like that unfortunatly.

Mr Celica
07-08-2007, 09:11 PM
please quote me where i said my turbo st would beat a stock gt-s. i didnt. i said i beat gt(s) 's with my bolt on header and exhuast. but i only raced one gt when i had my turbo kit for fun, and it was auto why would i wast my time when i was faster then them with bolt ons?

what you people arent getting is that a gt weighs 250-300 pounds more. and the gt-s weighs 300-400 pounds more. that means alot on the 1/4 and handeling department.

in all the ST is the best platform to go with out of the st, gt, gt-s. its the lightest and you can still fit a 3s-gte in it.

and the 4afe may not be great. but it serves its purpose. its retards like you that make me want to put the new kit on my car and hit 13's just to show you your worng about the 4afe. i already thoguht dascorcha shut u tards up with his 500WHP on a 4afe

no one is saying your car is fucking slow! stop being so protective! and again we are not talking about bolt ons, we're talking about stock.

would your stock 5th gen ST beat a stock GT/GTS? no bolt ons no headers etc? the quarter mile times say everything, no matter what, even if you put the best drivers in both cars, pushing both cars to the max, a stock ST will not beat a GT/GTS. with bolt ons who cares, we're talking about stock engines, stock chasis. no one is saing the 4afe engine is bad, or you can't turbo it and get decent results, we're simply stating that the stock, un-modified 4afe in a 5th gen ST, will not beat a stock 5sfe in a GT or GTS

turbo4ag
07-08-2007, 11:27 PM
91 Celica ST.... Your arguing about the potential of the car, while they are arguing the stock output of the car.

Yes the ST has the most potential speed & handling wise since its the lightest, and swapping a 3S isn't very hard. But I think the original topic starter was asking what the stock performance feels like. Which, yes, its pretty slow.

With a set of full coilovers, sway bars, and strut tower bars, the ST will out handle the GT or GTS. Thats obvious. But it doesn't have that stock.

5S-FE
07-08-2007, 11:38 PM
No way a can a stock ST beat a stock GT-S. Looks or performance wise. :P

91 celica st
07-08-2007, 11:54 PM
no one is saying your car is fucking slow! stop being so protective! and again we are not talking about bolt ons, we're talking about stock.

would your stock 5th gen ST beat a stock GT/GTS? no bolt ons no headers etc? the quarter mile times say everything, no matter what, even if you put the best drivers in both cars, pushing both cars to the max, a stock ST will not beat a GT/GTS. with bolt ons who cares, we're talking about stock engines, stock chasis. no one is saing the 4afe engine is bad, or you can't turbo it and get decent results, we're simply stating that the stock, un-modified 4afe in a 5th gen ST, will not beat a stock 5sfe in a GT or GTS

gt will win yes.

but gt vert and 90-91 gt-s isnt very much (if any) faster than the st.

and i have raced a gt-s when i had an intake (whoopeee) and beat him by about 3-4 car lengths. both stick.

mario (shadowlife25) can attest at how many gt(s) there are around here with highschool kids driving them

91 celica st
07-08-2007, 11:57 PM
i raced a beemer m3 once. cocky kid from my school. my cars lighter, has the smaller engine and that kid just started learning stick. i got my ass handed to me. i thik its more 50% car 50% driver.... but i kinda get what ur saying. knew a guy with an h22 swap into his eg hatch. and yeah, he beat turbo cars. but thats an h22. toyota dosent make badass n/a engines like that unfortunatly.
yes in the 1/4

but in mountain runs its more on the driver
ive beaten a 350z (have video)
turbo eg
scion Tc
intergra with B18c1 or B20 swap i dont remember (was beting him...he crashed)
and numerous other cars that would rape me by 2 or more seconds in the 1/4. honetlsy i could care about he 1/4. i never do it anymore anyway.

91 celica st
07-08-2007, 11:58 PM
91 Celica ST.... Your arguing about the potential of the car, while they are arguing the stock output of the car.

Yes the ST has the most potential speed & handling wise since its the lightest, and swapping a 3S isn't very hard. But I think the original topic starter was asking what the stock performance feels like. Which, yes, its pretty slow.

With a set of full coilovers, sway bars, and strut tower bars, the ST will out handle the GT or GTS. Thats obvious. But it doesn't have that stock.

yea i got 2 diffrent guys arguming with me. 1 for stock 1 for not so its getting confusing...lol.

and yea stock st is slow. but so is gt(s)'s so dont feel bad.

even a cheap $200 with GT sway bars and GT struts makes the ST handle WAY better

91 celica st
07-08-2007, 11:59 PM
No way a can a stock ST beat a stock GT-S. Looks or performance wise. :P
actually there closer than u think. the st is 400+ pounds lighter and geard better

CHRiS'_CeLiCa
07-09-2007, 12:32 AM
My ST's pretty quick. I totally smoked a shopping cart the other day.

you too? what kind was urs? i smoked a b00sted Walmart cart runnin on retard gas the other day,and i only had pump gas!!!!!OMFG ZOOMtastic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ...haha

on the real though, i did beat my cousins 98 civic dx the other day off a stop light, smoked em off the line and kept a good 2-3 car lengths ahead...it was sick nasty, i was quite pumped cuz i hate civics like you wouldnt believe...it was fun though

celicatrd93
07-09-2007, 01:14 AM
interesting thread, i have a 1993 st, i have a fully factory built, new gaskets, piston rings,clutch seals etc... also along with headers,intake,full exhaust system, i have beaten lots of d16 civic w/upgrades and killed them easily, i raced a 07 2.4 eclispe we were dead even up to 100mph. i raced a 1992 celica gt auto and beat him in third gear. i have raced a 02 celica gt stick and barely beat it. i do not consider my celica quick, but it is not as bad as you guys think 4afe is. stock to stock you cannot compare them. i even raced my roomates 02 celica gt-s with bolt ons too. fun race.

Azzazzyn
07-09-2007, 01:25 AM
you too? what kind was urs? i smoked a b00sted Walmart cart runnin on retard gas the other day,and i only had pump gas!!!!!OMFG ZOOMtastic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ...haha

on the real though, i did beat my cousins 98 civic dx the other day off a stop light, smoked em off the line and kept a good 2-3 car lengths ahead...it was sick nasty, i was quite pumped cuz i hate civics like you wouldnt believe...it was fun though

I've beaten a boosted civic with mt just about stock 240, i don't think he was too happy

TEAMFaint
07-09-2007, 01:32 AM
sorry but just putting the ecu to a jdm one is not going to give you 225/225. and unless you have driven a stock GTS vs a stock ST YOU have nothing but opinions



1. Swapping ECU's will give you a boost actually. There is no difference between the engine/transmission of a USDM 3SGTE compared to a JDM 3SGTE. The difference is in the ECU. ANd no it has nothing to do with 100 octane. I own a JDM Gt-Four. Guess what its rated at stock on 91 Octane?


2. I owned a stock 1992 Toyota Celica GTS. And a friend of mine owns a 1992 Toyota Celica ST. So looks like I have more than an opinion.


How can you say that the ST is geared better than the GTS?

I am truly starting to think that owning a ST has made you retarded.


A stock ST's is NOT better than the stock GTS by any means. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Potential of any car is nothing but an opinion.

Azzazzyn
07-09-2007, 01:36 AM
^agreed. A wise man once said "with enough money, you could boost a boulder and make it run a 9 second 1/4"

Chris
07-09-2007, 01:43 AM
^agreed. A wise man once said "with enough money, you could boost a boulder and make it run a 9 second 1/4"


Hey, no need to bring domestics into this.

























I kid, I kid.

91 celica st
07-09-2007, 04:16 AM
1. Swapping ECU's will give you a boost actually. There is no difference between the engine/transmission of a USDM 3SGTE compared to a JDM 3SGTE. The difference is in the ECU. ANd no it has nothing to do with 100 octane. I own a JDM Gt-Four. Guess what its rated at stock on 91 Octane?


2. I owned a stock 1992 Toyota Celica GTS. And a friend of mine owns a 1992 Toyota Celica ST. So looks like I have more than an opinion.


How can you say that the ST is geared better than the GTS?

I am truly starting to think that owning a ST has made you retarded.


A stock ST's is NOT better than the stock GTS by any means. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Potential of any car is nothing but an opinion.

the st is geared beter for acceleration the the gt transmission. look it up

lol ive owned a gt and an st. you havent. i think owning a gts has made you retarded

i never ssaid a stock st was better than a gt-s. sorry to burst your bubble but you need to learn how to fucking read.

you need not tell me that potential of a car is an opinion. i had a boosted 3-cyl geo metro that would have spanked your all-trac in the 1/4 or mountain run

Mr Celica
07-09-2007, 04:28 AM
you need not tell me that potential of a car is an opinion. i had a boosted 3-cyl geo metro that would have spanked your all-trac in the 1/4 or mountain run


why on earth would you boost a metro? lmao

Murgatroy
07-09-2007, 04:44 AM
The Metro came boosted. The Sprint did as well.

91 celica st
07-09-2007, 05:15 AM
The Metro came boosted. The Sprint did as well.

yup yup

was pretty peppy...but still slow....lol i beleve the turbo versions were the 1.3L 4 cyl anyway tho

85gtsblackman
07-09-2007, 12:39 PM
about the gearing comment

yes st maual are geared better than the s53 trans 5s 5th gen

lets see

3.7x final gt-gts
4.11 final.........st

so even though the st has less power gear takes effect

and with my st i beat a number of 5th gens, also it help that maual st has no govener cause its govened by redline in 5th....130 at 6200 rpm


your guys need to stop bashing each others cars, and models and such, why didnt u help the guy to make his st faster, we started that way, then someone had to run there mouth, then another, and another, and another, so now here we are, if u dont like what im saying i really dont give a damn cause its the truth

in short stop bashing and help the man

vip09
07-09-2007, 05:16 PM
was that with un-bolted exhuast and forgies :hehe:

No. You are thinking about my 3s-gte. That one has forgies + unbolted. :D

vip09
07-09-2007, 05:22 PM
T-Spoon could not have put it any better.
Celicas are not fast, even the All-Trac considering:

Power to Weight Ratio: Weight/Horsepower

All-trac: 16.1
GT Coupe: 19.4
GTS Hatch: 20.4
ST Coupe: 23.8

I personally consider 14.0 and below "fast", 14.1-16.5 "quick", and 16.5 "slow". Those even almost look like quarter mile times. So the USDM All-trac is just quick. Its in the class with SRT-4s and RSXs, which are what I consider quick. A GT/GTS/ST and most of the other USA Toyotas are slow though.

You forgot to mention the 7th gen GT-S 6spd. Power to Weight is 13.6.

2450lbs / 180hp

david in germany
07-09-2007, 06:36 PM
All, keep the profanity of of this and keep it civil... Or get the hose...




cough91 celica stcough

All we have opinions and that is what they are OPINIONS.
The only way to get hard numbers is to take a BONE STOCK gt and a BONE STOCK st and put them on the track. I know my st is not stock so that rules mine out.

all in all the st is a quick little car and so is the gt. Driver skill will prevail 90% of the time though still. I know my st will kill 7 series BMW's in curvies but the BMW will kill me in the straights. Each car has it's strong points so lets not start hating it because it is not the other.

Fuelish
07-09-2007, 07:28 PM
......Each car has it's strong points so lets not start hating it because it is not the other. 'nough said !!! :cool: thsi thrad has gotten silly.... Celicas are fine handlin' and good lookin' cars - "fast" doesn't necessarily = "fun to drive" anyway lol

insomnak8702
07-09-2007, 08:55 PM
surprisingly my 236xxx miles 4afe. with just intake headers and exhaust, it manages to beat a 97 v6 accord somehow.

2kSnakEater
07-09-2007, 09:51 PM
IMO
Looks:

All-Trac/GT4 > GTS > GT hatch > GT/ST coupe

Speed:
All-Trac/GT4 > GT coupe > GT hatch > GTS > ST


and since your running 15s STOCK in the above cars AND since 90% of the above cars are NOT rwd/awd you should not be talking about "racing" since the fwd was meant and desinged for economy. Economy imho will never = race bred

TEAMFaint
07-09-2007, 10:04 PM
the st is geared beter for acceleration the the gt transmission. look it up

lol ive owned a gt and an st. you havent. i think owning a gts has made you retarded

i never ssaid a stock st was better than a gt-s. sorry to burst your bubble but you need to learn how to fucking read.

you need not tell me that potential of a car is an opinion. i had a boosted 3-cyl geo metro that would have spanked your all-trac in the 1/4 or mountain run


First of all.

1) How many people actually hit 5th gen in the quarter mile? So what if their 5th gear is geared better for acceleration, its not used. And so what if its geaed better in other gears, it has less power.

2) Owning a GTS has not made me retarded, I actually know the difference between having a vehicle with any sort of power vs to one that hasnt. the 5SFE is slow. Yes. The 4AFE is brutally slower, I have driven both. And the ST made me cry inside.

3) You were the one who originally started the argument that the ST is a god amungst men. You wer ethe one that kept saying "I/H/E on ST would spank a GTS any day blah blah blah".

4) I'm really jealous of your ex-geo metro that was turbo charged and couldnt beat my Gt-Four in either the 1/4 or any sort of autocross.

91 celica st
07-09-2007, 11:04 PM
First of all.

1) How many people actually hit 5th gen in the quarter mile? So what if their 5th gear is geared better for acceleration, its not used. And so what if its geaed better in other gears, it has less power.

LOL so waht if its geared better? omg your stupid as shit (sorry dig). in my 74 it runs an 18 flat 1/4 with just changing out the rear end to a ae86 with a dirrent final drive it can dip into 16's

2) Owning a GTS has not made me retarded, I actually know the difference between having a vehicle with any sort of power vs to one that hasnt. the 5SFE is slow. Yes. The 4AFE is brutally slower, I have driven both. And the ST made me cry inside.

THERE BOTH SLOW WHAT DONT U GET 17 flat to 16.5 is nothing to jump around about

3) You were the one who originally started the argument that the ST is a god amungst men. You wer ethe one that kept saying "I/H/E on ST would spank a GTS any day blah blah blah".
i was arguing with u over stock. and someone else over potential. my argument with u was over suspension. if you would have read the whole thread you would have understood i was talking to 2 ppl
4) I'm really jealous of your ex-geo metro that was turbo charged and couldnt beat my Gt-Four in either the 1/4 or any sort of autocross.

not only could. but did. my geo metro hit a 14.11 at sears point. i posted timeslips. if you have never posted slips beating that...then my metro was faster than your alltrac.

done

TEAMFaint
07-09-2007, 11:27 PM
Blah blah blah, if I did this if I did that I could do this blah blah blah :brick:


Sounds good. I'll post slips when I go to the local track next month.


ST doesnt have better suspension over the GTS as well, sorry. ST has way too much body roll.

P.S

You are still an idiot talking out of your rear.

T-spoon
07-09-2007, 11:34 PM
OMG, Faint, ST, enough already! Good lord. You both know what arguing on the internet is like right? :hehe: Chill!!

TEAMFaint
07-09-2007, 11:37 PM
Its like the ST performance wise!

Useless! :ugh: :hehe:

Mr Celica
07-10-2007, 12:16 AM
owned.

haha

its all preference guys, chill out!

celicatrd93
07-10-2007, 01:04 AM
in the end they are all celica's and we drive them. as preformance wise, i never chose to drive a st, that was the only thing in hand they had when i needed a car for my budget and at the time. i would love to own a alltrac but really never could of find one. so i ended of fixing my celica st, cause in the end its still a celica. of course we all know st=slow toyota, we already know that so lets not bash on it. so no point of bashing on both cars cause they are same just with different factory upgrades. all celica's have disadvantages, like the alltrac is great car but heavy, the st is slow as hell but way lighter and easy to fix(not much on it). the gt and gt-s are the same thing just gts has a little wider body,minor upgrades and heavier but the same as the gt. in the end mostly all parts are interchangeable.good thing about a st is you can find them everywhere, grab one for 500 bucks with no motor and spend another 3000 bucks, slap a 3sgte in that and tear apart a alltrac cause of the big weight difference. celica is a celica. st/gt/gts/alltrac are just factory upgrades.

91 celica st
07-10-2007, 01:14 AM
Blah blah blah, if I did this if I did that I could do this blah blah blah :brick:


Sounds good. I'll post slips when I go to the local track next month.


ST doesnt have better suspension over the GTS as well, sorry. ST has way too much body roll.

P.S

You are still an idiot talking out of your rear.

i know the st dosent have better suspension stock. i never said it did. again please quote me where i said it did stock.


i love how i shut u down in every argument then u have to insult me back every time

TEAMFaint
07-10-2007, 03:41 AM
i know the st dosent have better suspension stock. i never said it did. again please quote me where i said it did stock.


i love how i shut u down in every argument then u have to insult me back every time


I dont insult you back. You are the one who is running their mouth on how amazing your car is and how you can beat any alltrac.

You have no points that confirm that the ST is superior in any other way than a GT/GTS/GT-Four, so I dont know why you kept trying to tell everyone other wise.

91 celica st
07-10-2007, 03:51 AM
I dont insult you back. You are the one who is running their mouth on how amazing your car is and how you can beat any alltrac.

You have no points that confirm that the ST is superior in any other way than a GT/GTS/GT-Four, so I dont know why you kept trying to tell everyone other wise.

i dont think my car is amazing at all i dont know where ur getting that. my car is a piece. but it gets me from point A to point B so i could care. your just the ignorant one that dosent think it has any potential. any car has potential. hence why i built a 3 cyl geo metro to prove it.

points? lol...none are "superior" there diffrent. if u want superior then yes the 5sfe and 3sgte and better overall engines than the 4afe. but the ST chassis is superior than the gt(s) ones. so i dont get why your tryign to tell epople false info

CHRiS'_CeLiCa
07-10-2007, 11:47 PM
OMG, Faint, ST, enough already! Good lord. You both know what arguing on the internet is like right? :hehe: Chill!!


Does it have anything to do with the special olympics by any chance :lolhittin ....ha...

but on the real, how can you add some power to the ST to give it some kind of zip or anything like that?....aftermarket headers and exhaust im sure is one, but dont you have to get it special fitted or is there somewhere i can buy it pre fit?... and is there anything else besides turbo and the exhaust i just mentioned?...

CHRiS'_CeLiCa
07-10-2007, 11:50 PM
o and look wise, i def say my car, body wise looks a whole lot better than any 5th gen hatch i have ever seen...and to me it also lookes better than any other ST i have seen, not just the paint job and how shiny it looks, but actually how "cool" and appealing the body is, the spoiler on my car is unlike any other spoiler on any other ST that i have ever seen, dont know why it is diff, but it is, ill have to take a pic of it from diff angles to show yall what i mean...

TEAMFaint
07-11-2007, 12:23 AM
^Just looks like the coupe 3 piece spoiler to me?


Oh, and hatchies are wayyy sexier than coupes. Sorry. :cool:

T-spoon
07-11-2007, 12:52 AM
^Just looks like the coupe 3 piece spoiler to me?


Oh, and hatchies are wayyy sexier than coupes. Sorry. :cool:

To you maybe, which is why it's good that he has the coupe and you have the hatch. Great how that works out :P

91 celica st
07-11-2007, 01:14 AM
Does it have anything to do with the special olympics by any chance :lolhittin ....ha...

but on the real, how can you add some power to the ST to give it some kind of zip or anything like that?....aftermarket headers and exhaust im sure is one, but dont you have to get it special fitted or is there somewhere i can buy it pre fit?... and is there anything else besides turbo and the exhaust i just mentioned?...

headers intake exhuast seem to open it up a bunch. other than that the only real way af adding any kind of real power is boositng it

CHRiS'_CeLiCa
07-11-2007, 02:09 AM
^Just looks like the coupe 3 piece spoiler to me?


Oh, and hatchies are wayyy sexier than coupes. Sorry. :cool:


ya it is a 3 piece spoiler but it is different than any other coup spoiler i have seen, its def not the same, my spoiler def makes the car complete and im tellin you, its looks nothing like any other spoilers on coupes i have ever seen...