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View Full Version : 3SGTE in AE92.... theory & practice.



turbo4ag
06-28-2007, 10:01 PM
This is my first post on your message board, I've been a long time visiter since you have alot of useful info and writeups, but I just recently registered.

My goal is to put a 3SGTE in an AE92 chassis. I am aware that this does not bolt into the stock chassis as it comes from the factory, but I have a couple theories I'd like to take into practice, but would like any info available from people with more experience.

Here are my issues:
1. Driver's side transmission case mount
I know with AT185 Celicas this mount will not hold an S or E series transmission because the mount is the wrong shape. However, the AE92s were built to support the 4AGZE which comes with an E51 transmission. And I know that the MR2 3SGTE E153 transmission is almost the same as the 4AGZE transmission except with a different final drive ratio and bellhousing. My theory is that if I were to get an AE92 4AGZE transmission mount it should bolt up to the 3SGTE trans case mount like OEM. Does anyone know if this will work or agree on my theory?

2. 3SGTE/5SFE crossmember (centerbeam) on AE92
As I know from writeups on this website and elsewhere, the ST185 front crossmember (centerbeam) will fit the AT185 suspension crossmember and frame. What I need to know is if the 5SFE centerbeam and 3SGTE centerbeam are the same. I do know that the AT165 centerbeam is the same as the AE92's, as I've compared them in the junkyard before, so if it fits that car it will fit mine.

3. Passenger side mount
Does anyone make a S series to A series timing belt side mount, or must it be custom?

4. Axles
Finally, which axles do you use for the Celica? It should be the same for the corolla. Standard 3SGTE axles? I might use the 5SFE transmission to build this, in that case, which axles would I use then?


Thank you in advance for any help.

91 celica st
06-29-2007, 12:20 AM
sorry but the 4agze transmission isnt a E-51. its a C series transmission. and it cwill not bolt up to your 3sgte

and you will need custom made axels

turbo4ag
06-29-2007, 12:35 AM
Thanks for the reply.

The 4AGZE transmission is indeed an E series transmission. And I've been told people have used the MR2 3SGTE differential on the AW11 GZE.

I can confirm:
AE92 4AGZE is an E51
AE101 4AGZE is an E58

I saw one guy with an ST Celica used some sort of OEM axle combination to get his to work on the 3SGTE transmission. I was trying to find out the combination on how to get the S51/S52/S53 to work in its place.

Here is the link to his project:
http://celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?p=252277

burnyd
06-29-2007, 04:06 AM
^^ No its not... its definately a C series trans as there are no bell housing for that style on a S series motor that illw also work with a A block motor..

your going to have a decent amount of work to do... but the hardest will be the three trans mounts. your hubs will work... but otherwise working with the axles to make them lock and fit in the hubs is going to be difficult... it would be a pretty difficult swap.. hardest part would be getting the transmission to fit with all the mounts and the rear crossmember.

91 celica st
06-29-2007, 05:21 AM
Thanks for the reply.

The 4AGZE transmission is indeed an E series transmission. And I've been told people have used the MR2 3SGTE differential on the AW11 GZE.

I can confirm:
AE92 4AGZE is an E51
AE101 4AGZE is an E58

I saw one guy with an ST Celica used some sort of OEM axle combination to get his to work on the 3SGTE transmission. I was trying to find out the combination on how to get the S51/S52/S53 to work in its place.

Here is the link to his project:
http://celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?p=252277

no. the 4agze uses a C series transmission. c-56 i believe. i am 100% posotive it uses a C series.

the axle thing is alot different. the 3sgte originally was ina celica therefore there are axles for it that work. and he used a E series tranny. no E series trany willl bolt up to an A series engine. your wheelbases is diferent than a ceilca therefor you will have to get custom axles

turbo4ag
06-29-2007, 02:12 PM
You guys are heavily mistaken. The 4AGZE uses an E series transmission.

AW11 4AGZE: E-51
Largeport AE92 4AGZE: E-51
Smallport Ae92 4AGZE: E-58
AE101 4AGZE: E-58

The C series transmissions only come on naturally aspirated engines:
C50: AW11, AE82, AE92 (SR5), AT185
C52: AE82 (FX16), AE92 (GTS), AE100, Early AE101, AT185, AT205
C56: AE101, AE111 (5-speed)
C160: AE111 (6-speed)


The reason I know all of this is because I've done about 2 years of research and development into building my own 200+whp 4AGTE in AE92 GTS. Im currently planning on finishing tuning it for more HP then selling it to start my 4 door AE92 3SGTE project. But I am very familiar with MR2s and Corollas. Though I'm new to the Celica platform and chassis, and this is where most of my parts will be coming from, a FWD or front engined 3S/5S engines.

Also there are many people who do whats called the MK1.5 conversion. Which is the AW11, first generation MR2, with a 3SGTE swapped into it. Many of them use a combination of a complete 4AGZE drive axles, then a 3SGTE inner end with 4AGZE outer end.... or something like that. So I am 1000% sure that the 4AGZE is an E-51. If you'd like to you can do some research on the MR2OC board that has a link on this forums main page. Or just click the link below:

www.mr2oc.com

Membership required to post and view forum.

turbo4ag
06-29-2007, 02:38 PM
After doing some more research, the 3SGTE transmission is not an E51, its an E153. But if you CAN swap the bellhousing to an E51 to make it compatible.

Still wondering about the E153 transmission mount, if its the same as an E51...

burnyd
06-29-2007, 02:49 PM
After doing some more research, the 3SGTE transmission is not an E51, its an E153. But if you CAN swap the bellhousing to an E51 to make it compatible.

Still wondering about the E153 transmission mount, if its the same as an E51...


It might be but your not going to swap bell housing... the e153 is a huuggeee transmission... majority of them weigh over 130lbs.. but, the bell housing is not going to swap... other than that the splines are not going to match up anyways.

turbo4ag
06-29-2007, 03:17 PM
Which splines?

The splines that extend out of the bellhousing are the same on E51s and E153. If you use the 3SGTE flywheel and clutch on an E51, you essentially have an E153.

The transmission case itself I dont think is any bigger or longer, so if it does infact mount the same way as an E51, it will not be too big. The hub splines are the same also, its just the shaft is most likely too long to fit a corolla or AW11 MR2.

I really have to do more reasearch and get direct pictures of everything.

91 celica st
06-29-2007, 07:42 PM
yea 4agze uses e-51
the 4age and 20v use c series

turbo4ag
06-29-2007, 10:56 PM
After some more research it turns out the 3SGTE E153 might be compatible with the E51 mount even though the bracket is different. Still waiting on a couple more responses from other boards to confirm.

I think I may be getting near to closing the deal on this project.

turbo4ag
07-02-2007, 10:08 PM
Just as follow up info incase anyone searches this forum or topic for answers.
To get a 3SGTE into an AE92 corolla:

1. Transmission Mount: AE92 Stock 4AGE/4AGZE mount
2. Centerbeam: Stock 4AGE/4AGZE
3. Axles: Whichever FWD Transmission that mates to the 3S block, paired with OEM Axles (Ex. S53-S53 axles, E153-E153 axles)

The only part that will need to be customized to put this engine into an AE92 is the timing belt side engine mount. With the AT185 Celicas it is much different to get swapped in, and you will need more parts. The link to the topic below descrines one way to do the swap:

http://celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?p=252277