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View Full Version : Awd to Rwd consersion? by taking out front drive shafts?



iwamaryu
06-17-2007, 12:24 PM
hey guys i'm not much of a machanic, so i'm seeking some opionion here. i was wondering with the celica 5th gen gt4 alltrac, could you take out the front drive shafts (axels) to make it a rwd? why rwd?> to drift

this idea came about when i was changing my right controll arm and ball joint , anyways while working on my suspension, control and steering components i accidently pulled out my front right drive shaft (not a problem, all i had to do was push it in again), the drive shaft is a shaft with the CV joints on each end that transfers power from the transmission to the wheel. So yeah this got me thinking why can't i just take out the front right and left drive shafts so then all the power will be transfers to the rear wheel making it a rwd.
is this possible?

extremeskillz
06-17-2007, 01:01 PM
well you have to remember that the power going to all wheels is distributed by the proper gearing. Im not sure of the gearing in the alltrac but i do believe in is split either 50 rear and 50 front or 60 rear and 40 front. If you were going to do this you would need to make the power to the rear 100% and that i do not know as i do not have experience with alltracs. Someone else fill my shoes please!

iwamaryu
06-17-2007, 01:18 PM
yeah extremeskillz i had the same thoughts as you. but i was thinking if u took out the front draive shafts all the power would go to the rear wheels, i don't see how it would distribute the power 50/50 to front/rear, cause nothing is powering the front wheel so theres no friction there.

the way i see it is, theres kinetic energy created by the engine right and if theres 4 wheels connected to the transmition through drive shafts then each wheel will distribute 25% power each to the ground. if two wheels arn't connected i don't see why all the power can't go to the rear wheels

alltracman78
06-17-2007, 04:19 PM
Won't work.
The center diff will send ALL the power to the front axle stubs precisely because there is no resistance.

So you will be no wheel drive instead of 4 wheel drive. :)

cms-gt4
06-17-2007, 04:23 PM
Then he center diff will bake. The only thing I could imagine is welding some gears and removing some others in the transfer case. Either way, thats a lot of weight to carry for rwd. Better off turning the engine and instaling a proper rwd gearbox.

hobbie2k
06-17-2007, 06:28 PM
Won't work.
The center diff will send ALL the power to the front axle stubs precisely because there is no resistance.

So you will be no wheel drive instead of 4 wheel drive. :)

Exactly. It's an open center differential, just like how an open axle diff will send all the power to the wheel with less traction.

extremeskillz
06-17-2007, 08:19 PM
Also if you want to, there are some subys that have been converted to rwd for drifting. You best be is to ask them how they did it. They basically took the same concept but they did something the the transmission to make it work. Formula D is a good source and maybe some suby forums. Good luck with you project.

alltracman78
06-18-2007, 03:09 AM
Subies have a different setup. Internally totally differen then the Alltracs.
They are RWD with axles to the front.
We are FWD with a T case to the rear.


Exactly. It's an open center differential, just like how an open axle diff will send all the power to the wheel with less traction.

mmm, not quite.
It is technically an open center diff, but there is a viscous coupling that effectively makes the center diff LSD.

However, the way it's set up it will spin only the fronts if there's no friction.
Not all LSDs work when part is effectively off the road surface.
The rear TORSENs in the cars are the same way. If one wheel is off the ground the diff becomes open.

Melchior
06-18-2007, 05:57 AM
Like he says, the center diff is actually a LSD... there are just different types of LSD and most of them would behave this way.

alltracman78
06-19-2007, 01:18 AM
No, the center diff is NOT LSD.
It's open.

There's a viscous coupling attached to the output shaft from it that makes it act like a LSD diff.

Important distinction.

mtp_69_i
06-19-2007, 01:22 AM
check out JustenGT8 on the toymods forum (australian). He shoehorned a 1UZFE into a 185. It's an impressive burnout machine http://www.turbocelica.com/videos/gt8inaction.wmv
it's been discussed here before.

extremeskillz
06-19-2007, 01:54 PM
[QUOTE=alltracman78]Subies have a different setup. Internally totally differen then the Alltracs.
They are RWD with axles to the front.
We are FWD with a T case to the rear.

QUOTE]

Yea your right. I just realized its been a while since ive seen a suby chassis layout and yea it is setup as a rwd with front wheel axles.

hobbie2k
06-19-2007, 11:59 PM
check out JustenGT8 on the toymods forum (australian). He shoehorned a 1UZFE into a 185. It's an impressive burnout machine http://www.turbocelica.com/videos/gt8inaction.wmv
it's been discussed here before.

But that's not converting AWD to RWD, that's replacing the entire AWD drivetrain with a RWD one... awsome machine (and superior in just about every respect), but not the same thing. :)

cms-gt4
06-22-2007, 06:46 PM
Here is a v8 in a civic swap. This link should be stickied. It might give you an idea of how hard it would be to make a fwd celica rwd or awd.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=730443&page=1&pp=20

extremeskillz
06-22-2007, 07:28 PM
^THats awesome. That thing will haul ass.

Melchior
06-22-2007, 07:44 PM
No, the center diff is NOT LSD.
It's open.

There's a viscous coupling attached to the output shaft from it that makes it act like a LSD diff.

Important distinction.

Really? Cool.

What are the design benefits of this method?

cms-gt4
06-23-2007, 12:14 AM
Cheap small and strong.

PhillyDRFT
06-23-2007, 01:18 AM
If the VLSD in the alltrac is the same as s13's then the material inside only has a working lifespan of around 100,000miles.

Would it be possible to mount the 3sgte longitudinal and find a rwd transmission that would fit or could be adapted to fit? Assuming you can make a custom driveshaft and the rear differential is strong enough to hold the engines load. (also re-routing all engine wiring and fluid passages.)

Edit: Just adding food for thought. I think if you have a nice AWD platform there's no need to change it. RWD is nice and comes with a certain feel to driving. Although the Alltrac was built with AWD in mind.

celica9303
06-24-2007, 08:11 PM
a shop in japan put a 3s in a nissan s15 and made it rwd with mounting it the other way it was in import tuner mag

alltracman78
06-25-2007, 02:39 AM
If the VLSD in the alltrac is the same as s13's then the material inside only has a working lifespan of around 100,000miles.

Would it be possible to mount the 3sgte longitudinal and find a rwd transmission that would fit or could be adapted to fit? Assuming you can make a custom driveshaft and the rear differential is strong enough to hold the engines load. (also re-routing all engine wiring and fluid passages.)

Edit: Just adding food for thought. I think if you have a nice AWD platform there's no need to change it. RWD is nice and comes with a certain feel to driving. Although the Alltrac was built with AWD in mind.

I doubt that's so seeing as 185 trans regularly go well past 100,000 miles.
And when they do go bad, it's the synchros, not the T case that does.

The Altezza came with the 3SGE.
So there's your RWD setup.