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celicatrd93
06-07-2007, 10:09 PM
had a question for you guys, would you drive a caldina gt-four, it does have a lovely new 3sgte but the body style is like a 4-door wagon. what do you think.here are some pics.
http://www.autolancia.com/newcar/preview/cartina.jpg
http://www.autolancia.com/newcar/preview/cartinas.jpg
http://www.autolancia.com/newcar/preview/cartinab.jpg
http://www.autolancia.com/newcar/preview/cartinai.jpg
http://www.autolancia.com/newcar/preview/cartinaseat.jpg
http://www.autolancia.com/newcar/preview/cartinae.jpg
http://www.autolancia.com/newcar/preview/cartinau.jpg

Borinal
06-07-2007, 10:11 PM
The answer is NO.

Ricksta
06-07-2007, 10:43 PM
toyota is reproducing 3sgte's?!?! woohoo, and no on the car lol.

Azzazzyn
06-07-2007, 10:47 PM
if i had to get a family vehicle, it'd be a caldina or a stagea

celicatrd93
06-07-2007, 10:54 PM
i like the dash, but the car is just to big. good for a family dad racer :hehe: but you got to love the motor. plus i bet that thing is pretty heavy, thats why it need a 3sgte with 260hp to get its fat ass up and going. :laugh:

Azzazzyn
06-07-2007, 10:59 PM
in gt2 you could buy caldina's and they were pretty peppy

Borinal
06-07-2007, 11:25 PM
Yeah, main reason on the motor is not a ton is known about them, well a lot is, and it's great, it's an expansion on the gen 3 it's the gen4, but it's in ways debatable if it's any better or worth the investment, and even tougher to get parts for, suprisngly than a gen 3. so it's a security of knowing that you can understand and fix the motor, what the differneces are, ultimately most people avoid them and just do the Gen 3, dunno if it's warranted and I woudl like to KNOW what is different and better/worse about a gen 4 some valid points have been brought up before but I forget and nothing DEFINITIVE y'know.

GT4SOM
06-07-2007, 11:43 PM
It would be sweet if it came to the states. At least we would have a 3s in production here in the states. I would push it as a daily driver. AWD sweetness

geebes
06-08-2007, 12:12 AM
I would rock that car in a heartbeat...cuz its a gangsta gangsta!!!!!

In GT4 I had one of those that was crazy fast, and handled super sweet.

Shadowlife25
06-08-2007, 12:31 AM
We DO have it in the 'States. It's called the TOYOTA Matrix. Same body, no FI, no AWD. It does have some pep to it though. I still think it's not quite what I'd call attractive, but :shrug:

hobbie2k
06-08-2007, 12:31 AM
I'd rock it. But I love Wagons. I think they are some of the best-looking cars on the planet.

Caldina GT4, Stagea Autech 260RS, Legacy GT Wagon, Mazdaspeed3, Magnum SRT-8...they are REAL sport-utility vehicles.

geebes
06-08-2007, 12:45 AM
We DO have it in the 'States. It's called the TOYOTA Matrix. Same body, no FI, no AWD. It does have some pep to it though. I still think it's not quite what I'd call attractive, but :shrug:


Are you sure? The matrix looks a lot different than that....matrix is not a gangsta gangsta. :thumbsdow :hehe:

Caldina is a gangsta gangsta. :bigthumbu :hehe:

BTW. I thought they did make an awd matrix.

Colossus20v
06-08-2007, 12:49 AM
They do make the AWD matrix.

Id drive it. :)

Ajilon
06-08-2007, 12:51 AM
meh. It's just not me. I need something sleek, sexy with curves, lines and above all, I have a particular aficonado for going topless too. I don't forsee them producing wagon convertibles.

Borinal
06-08-2007, 12:54 AM
meh. It's just not me. I need something sleek, sexy with curves, lines and above all, I have a particular aficonado for going topless too. I don't forsee them producing wagon convertibles.
Yeah, I've already got something EXACTLY like you just described. I don't need anything else. =)

Borinal
06-08-2007, 12:56 AM
Are you sure? The matrix looks a lot different than that....matrix is not a gangsta gangsta. :thumbsdow :hehe:

Caldina is a gangsta gangsta. :bigthumbu :hehe:

BTW. I thought they did make an awd matrix.
I don't know why, but lowriders with hydro's scream "gangsta gangsta" ...to me.

geebes
06-08-2007, 01:00 AM
Te he...true. I have that terrible song stuck in my head though, so everything I like right now is a GANGSTA GANGSTA!

For example, the salad I just ate...GANGSTA GANGSTA!

GT4SOM
06-08-2007, 06:01 AM
We DO have it in the 'States. It's called the TOYOTA Matrix. Same body, no FI, no AWD. It does have some pep to it though. I still think it's not quite what I'd call attractive, but :shrug:
I don't think so. Matrix are uber gay. Its not even a cousin to gt4. Its more like the upper class cousin of a pontiac vibe. Which is also gay btw.

MCcelica
06-08-2007, 07:23 AM
Yeah, that thing is a bit longer than the matrix. How I know? My MOM has one. Need I say more? Yeah the engine is peppy and all, but not so much for the car. Not that one either. Would I rock it? Thinkin im with borinal on that with the short answer being no.

hobbie2k
06-08-2007, 01:50 PM
I don't think the Matrix and Vibe are gay, I think they're pretty cool. All they need is more power and torque. Seriously, though, you get all the utility of a small SUV with the same performance potential as a small coupe (you can offset the weight difference by skipping a couple options, and then it even offers better balance than most coupes).

Playfortoday
06-08-2007, 02:24 PM
I have a hard time accepting a 4-door as being a sports car. I would rock that in a 2 door, no problem.

There are a few threads on this site where the drawbacks of the st215 motor are discussed. Basically, it is a hard car to mod without a lot of expense. There are a lot of incorporated components that would need to be entirely removed and replace with newer expensive shit. That and the fact that the ST215 is an automatic.:puke:

GT4SOM
06-08-2007, 02:26 PM
How do you feel about a evo or a sti?? They pretty damn fast for 4 doors!

Playfortoday
06-08-2007, 03:52 PM
Those are probably the only two I would make an exception for, and I still would like the 4 doors though, but the power would help me to forget quickly.

geebes
06-08-2007, 06:14 PM
I have a hard time accepting a 4-door as being a sports car. I would rock that in a 2 door, no problem.

That would be pretty sweet in a two door! I think it would look like a newer civic.

cms-gt4
06-08-2007, 06:47 PM
Pictures do not do this car justice. I saw a decent bit of them in Malaysia. While, I would prefer a st205, it does look good in person. Its not much taller than a honda civic.

90celicaGTX
06-08-2007, 08:22 PM
Fucking A!

i would.. people would have no idea wut that car is...

let alone, half the kids around on da streets dont even know wut an all-trac is...

Shadowlife25
06-08-2007, 09:27 PM
I don't think so. Matrix are uber gay. Its not even a cousin to gt4. Its more like the upper class cousin of a pontiac vibe. Which is also gay btw.


What ?

Mr E
06-08-2007, 09:38 PM
I'd replace the Alfa with one quite happily. The problem is, the UK government changed the rules on personal imports, and so there are exactly 3 Caldina GT4s in the country, and will be no more unless someone spends 50,000 pounds to crash test a couple.

Fensport use one to tow the 650bhp Celica around.

The Gen 4 GTE is pretty much a Gen3 engine with VVTI (woo!) and Air/Air intercooling (boo).

celicaGT90_05
06-08-2007, 10:23 PM
yeah I'd drive that car but not buy one off the lot. So they redid the 3S-GTE? Thats pretty cool, any new specs on it?

7thgenreject
06-09-2007, 02:34 AM
If I'm not mistaken, this thing only comes in an automatic and the turbo is built into the header pipe so you have to replace the whole thing to replace/upgrade the turbo. I think when Toyota canceled the Celica they decided to kick us while we were down by making this bastardized minivan with it's heart.

Cavanagh
06-09-2007, 02:42 AM
The answer is YES.
Fixed :D IF it was manual though.

GT4SOM
06-09-2007, 02:50 AM
I want vvti in my 3sgte :(

ciento44
06-10-2007, 07:42 AM
I have a hard time accepting a 4-door as being a sports car. I would rock that in a 2 door, no problem.

There are a few threads on this site where the drawbacks of the st215 motor are discussed. Basically, it is a hard car to mod without a lot of expense. There are a lot of incorporated components that would need to be entirely removed and replace with newer expensive shit. That and the fact that the ST215 is an automatic.:puke:

You can get the ST215 in manual. It's not too common, but they're out there.

Basically, in a nutshell... the BIG pros and cons...

Pros:
ECU, tuning, blah blah blah is better
Ignition system is better

Cons
(This is a biggie) Manifold and turbo are all one piece... so any turbo upgrade, or manifold upgrade is going to be a HUGE pain in the ass, as well as expensive.

But would i rock one? Yes.

geebes
06-10-2007, 10:16 AM
LOL...I macked one out in Gran Turismo 4 today...ran a 9.3 1/4 mile! :)

alltracman78
06-10-2007, 03:49 PM
It doesn't have VVTi in it as far as I know. Though there was a updated version [different chassis code] after 02, so maybe that one does. Or maybe they have the same engine. :shrug:

While the Caldina looks alot like the Matrix, and shares engines [it's also available with the 1ZZFE I believe] it's not the same chassis.
The Caldina is a T chassis [ST215, ST246, ect] while the Matrix is a Corolla [wagon] chassis [ZZE133].

Going by chassis codes, the Caldina is actually part of a chassis "family" [T] that also includes the Celica, Curren, Carina, tC, and [sort of confusing here because this is the original T chassis as far as I can tell, and it started as RWD] the Corona.
Confusing because the original Celicas were A chassis [which interestingly enough the Supra carried on instead of the Celica in 86, so does that mean the Supra stayed as the "correct" Celica while the Celica moved on to a T code?] while in 86 they went to T, and changed to FWD even though the original Corona [T code remember] was RWD and stayed such longer [in some cases anyways?] I believe.

Anyhoo, that's enough typing for me for now.

2kSnakEater
06-10-2007, 03:50 PM
could it be posible to stick the auto from the Caldina into an ST185? I always wondered since my wife doesnt like driving a manual car, but I then look at the car and all the work it involves and say fuck it, she'l learn.

ciento44
06-10-2007, 05:54 PM
Automatic transmission turbo cars = awesome.

Cavanagh
06-10-2007, 06:13 PM
Automatic Transmission cars also = boring

alltracman78
06-10-2007, 06:14 PM
Maybe fast, but no fun to drive IMO.

90% of the fun of driving is shifting.
Speed is great, but down/upshifting through curvy roads is a total blast.

geebes
06-11-2007, 12:39 AM
x2

GT4SOM
06-11-2007, 01:10 AM
Who cares if the turbo is one piece with the turbo. I'm sure that turbo can provide alot before we need to replace. What is it? CT20b ?? if we need to replace just get a exhaust mani from an old 3s unless the bolt pattern won't work.

cms-gt4
06-11-2007, 01:18 AM
Certain caldinas had the st205 5-speed. Not all were auto.

alltracman78
06-11-2007, 02:16 AM
Who cares if the turbo is one piece with the turbo. I'm sure that turbo can provide alot before we need to replace. What is it? CT20b ?? if we need to replace just get a exhaust mani from an old 3s unless the bolt pattern won't work.

It is different.
That's the point.

There are 4? generations of the Caldina IIRC, so plenty of room for changes.

I'm just glad they're still making G engines.
The cut down alot on them because of emissions.

celicaGT90_05
06-11-2007, 06:20 AM
Maybe fast, but no fun to drive IMO.

90% of the fun of driving is shifting.
Speed is great, but down/upshifting through curvy roads is a total blast.

Yes thats true, especially in a RWD, I love controllin the ass end of my ranger through a curvey road :bigthumbu

pitcelica
07-15-2007, 06:33 PM
Hi, for the turbo and manifold upgrade on this engine, it's not too hard. I did it on my 4th gen 3SGTE ST215. Here's the recipe to do it :

1-Buy a SSAC ST205 exhaust manifold
2-Buy a t3/t4 turbo
3-Buy a CT20b to T3/T4 manifold adaptor (including the wastegate inlet)
4-Buy an External 38mm wastegate
5-Buy a CT26-CT20b downpipe
6-Buy a T3/T4 exhaust flange
7-Weld the new flange on the downpipe

Everything is fine with these items.

The only thing is that the turbo comes very close to the radiator (3/4" near the rad) so no fan can be put there. I need to use two "pusher" Spals fan in front of the rad to keep it cool.

This is how to convert a turbo/manifold one-pieced with CT20b to a T3/T4 unit.

Hope that this info helps you

Thanks

Sam

celicatrd93
07-16-2007, 03:12 AM
damn seems like a nice setup pitcelica, have any pics? and how does it run.

pitcelica
07-18-2007, 05:01 PM
Hi, thanks for the comments. If you want pics, here's my webpage (sorry for the french speak, I come from Quebec):

http://pitcelica.monchar.com

The setup isn't complete now, I need to tune my Megasquirt II and it's damn hard. But I think that I can hit the low 13's easily with this setup. I expect around 300hp @ 16 psi.

Let me know your comments!!

Thanks

Sam

Playfortoday
07-18-2007, 06:14 PM
Hi, for the turbo and manifold upgrade on this engine, it's not too hard. I did it on my 4th gen 3SGTE ST215. Here's the recipe to do it :

1-Buy a SSAC ST205 exhaust manifold
2-Buy a t3/t4 turbo
3-Buy a CT20b to T3/T4 manifold adaptor (including the wastegate inlet)
4-Buy an External 38mm wastegate
5-Buy a CT26-CT20b downpipe
6-Buy a T3/T4 exhaust flange
7-Weld the new flange on the downpipe

Everything is fine with these items.

The only thing is that the turbo comes very close to the radiator (3/4" near the rad) so no fan can be put there. I need to use two "pusher" Spals fan in front of the rad to keep it cool.

This is how to convert a turbo/manifold one-pieced with CT20b to a T3/T4 unit.

Hope that this info helps you

Thanks

Sam

Pit-

I have never seen this list laid out before. Thanks for this. It seems like something I would consider doing myself in the future. The upgrade doesn't seem to bad after all.

Also, it is obvious the clearance issue is caused by that massively thick turbo adapter flange. I wonder if someone could do a thinner biller piece for that...

How are you controlling the engine? I read you said you need to tune the mega squirt II. Is this because it was not possible to get the engine running on the ST215 ECU? How are you running your analog speedometer? How about the rest of the factory gauges? By running the megasquirt, did you give up on the vvt-i system, or does it still function?

Thanks, and great work!

pitcelica
07-19-2007, 12:49 AM
Hi, thanks for your comments.

Yes the t3/t4 adaptor is really too big. It brings the turbo setup very far of the engine and very close to the rad. I know that SSAC sells t3/t4 exhaust manifold that has a port included for a 38mm external wastegate. But they do this exhaust manifold for the 1st and 2nd 3sgte gen. Those are 7 and 9 bolt setup. For a 3rd or 4th gen 3sgte (like mine), the exhaust manifold had 8 bolts and differents bolts and exhaust ports pattern.

For your information, 4th gen 3sgte ST215 don't have VVti system. Only some latest gen of 3sge have it. So no problem with this.

I'm controlling the engine with a Megasquirt II system. I do this because I bought the engine without ECU and cut wire harness (the worst thing I do in my life!!!). If I had the choice between stock ECU and less power or programmable ECU and more power, I'll choose first anytime. This is really hard to install and run a non plug-and-play ECU system.

The hardest thing to run was the ignition system. The stock 4th gen 3sgte ignition system is Coil-on-plug (one coil by cylinder). There is no more distributor. I was obliged to use an ignition module (EDIS4) and to fabricate a custom 36-1 trigger wheel setup on the crankshaft pulley with a magnetic sensor. This sensor gives the current angle () of the engine while it's running. This sensor is use for the tachometer too. That part was very hard.

Once the engine was running, I needed to work on the gauge cluster. That part wasn't too hard. The coolant gauge is feeded by the coolant sensor from the Megasquirt. The same for the tachometer. My speedometer is driven by a cable from the speedsensor in the tranny. I hook up the cable and everything was fine. The fuel gauges aren't affected by the swap.

The only thing that I wasn't able to run (for now) is the cruise control. I have no idea of the wiring diagram of the cruise control system. If someone know where I can find this diagram, please let me know. It will be really appreciated.

I take off all the AC components for more room and for do the wiring easier.

This swap isn't too complicated if you got all the right parts. I will say to everyone that want a ST215 engine to find one with the stock ecu and uncut wire harness (you will thanks me).

I'll continue my swap. It's supposed to be finished for september.

I need to do my custom 3" exhaust system, buying a new bigger radiator and 2 12" Spal fans. I need to tune the Megasquirt and after, everything will be ok.

I can't wait until this time.

Hope that these infos helps you a lot.

Anyway, I'll do a nice completed thread to how-to swap a 4th gen 3sgte because I know that a lot of people are confused with this.

BTW, if you know where I can find wiring diagram for cruise control system for a 90-93 celica model, it will be very helpful.

Thanks

sam

celicatrd93
07-19-2007, 07:02 AM
wow, you have a nice sleeper, man you did a great job on the motor, really nice and clean setup, i would get rid of cruise control, i barely use, don't know about you. you should make a nice thread of your nice setup. keep us updated.

Playfortoday
07-19-2007, 02:55 PM
Hope that these infos helps you a lot.

Anyway, I'll do a nice completed thread to how-to swap a 4th gen 3sgte because I know that a lot of people are confused with this.

BTW, if you know where I can find wiring diagram for cruise control system for a 90-93 celica model, it will be very helpful.

It does help since this is not a well document swap in the US.

I write up on the swap would be awesome. You would basically become the source for st215 motor swap questions. :bigthumbu

As for the diagram, check out our BGB Online section on our site...

http://www.celicatech.com/imagearchive/bgbonline/bgb.php

I found cruise control for the 1993 Celica Service Tech Manual:

http://www.celicatech.com/imagearchive/bgbonline/93tech/CRUIS_CO.PDF

I won't link the rest of the documents that might contain stuff since there are a few. I just gave one as an example.

Just hunt around on http://www.celicatech.com/imagearchive/bgbonline/bgb.php

If you find that the links are broken (and some links will appear to be broken). Manually type in the root directories that you see when putting your mouse over a link that doesn't work, and you will find the manual, file-based document directories.

alltracman78
07-19-2007, 04:05 PM
Good info man. :)
Thanks for sharing it.
Here's some info for you.
This is for a 91 with mechanical cruise control.
Since you have a GTS I don't think you have vacuum cruise.
Hosted right here on Ctech.

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/1/6/3/91CruiseControl001.jpg
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/1/6/3/91CruiseControl002.jpg
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/1/6/3/91CruiseControl003.jpg
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/1/6/3/91CruiseControl004.jpg
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/1/6/3/91CruiseControl005.jpg
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/1/6/3/91CruiseControl006.jpg

T-spoon
07-19-2007, 04:27 PM
could it be posible to stick the auto from the Caldina into an ST185? I always wondered since my wife doesnt like driving a manual car, but I then look at the car and all the work it involves and say fuck it, she'l learn.

Pff, my wife couldn't drive manual when I met her. Made her learn on the 6gen and she HATES autos now.

pitcelica
07-19-2007, 05:41 PM
Hi, thanks a lot for your comments and for your cruise control wiring diagrams links. This could be very nice if the BGB links will be repaired for us. It would help me a lot. If any administrator see this thread, please fix the BGB links for the celicatech community!!

I think that my cruise control is vaccum unit because it has a vaccum line that comes from the intake manifold to the cruise control actuator.

Let me know if this change something in the diagrams you send me.

By the way, my right driveaxle broke yesterday :thumbsdow

That's why the swap will take a lil more time before the complete end.

I'll keep you informed.

Thanks

Sam

Playfortoday
07-19-2007, 05:47 PM
LOL. I am an administrator, alltracman is a super moderator, and t-spoon is a moderator. We are aware of the issue with the books, and it has been on our list to fix for a long time. Problem is that we lost access to toyota.techinfo.com and donations from member are almost non-existent and can't support the membership fee that techinfo charges, and the person who put most of them up is either very busy right now, or he is sick of scanning 500 pages manually into his computer.:hehe:

pitcelica
07-19-2007, 06:04 PM
Ho ok, I'm sorry. Anyway, if this is on your list, this is ok for me.

Good luck and continue your good job!

Thanks

Sam

alltracman78
07-19-2007, 07:07 PM
Yeah, vacuum cruise is totally different.
I can't get up the diagrams right now, but I SHOULD be able to tonite.

pitcelica
07-21-2007, 05:33 PM
Don't forget me plz!!! I need those vaccum cruise control diagrams.

BTW My driveaxle is not broken, the center bearing bracket had been unbolted from the block. I'll use thread lock next time!

Thanks

Sam