PDA

View Full Version : 4th gen - Which springs?



Ajilon
05-07-2007, 07:22 PM
I cracked my airdamn again, backing out of my insane driveway. I need new springs. NOW... I can't handle this. I'm running Koni yellow adjustables and suspension tech with a 2.3" drop. I need to come up some. Which springs are recommended and available for the 4th gen and work well with Koni?

Availability is what I'm having issues with.
Also, places to buy online would be a treat if you know of a good source.

Luni
05-07-2007, 08:12 PM
All Im finding are B&G and Intrax.

Also the Eibach prokits.

Theyre a little squishy for konis though. Closer to stock rates with an inch drop.

Melchior
05-07-2007, 09:07 PM
Park on the street!

Luni
05-07-2007, 09:22 PM
Thats good advice. NOT

Come on guys, dont whore this thread up, she wants to know what springs are readily available. I know our 4th gen community isnt THAT big, but surely SOMEONE might have some good info for her.

Futant3
05-07-2007, 09:45 PM
you've pretty much covered the suppliers on 4th gen springs. you can also go custom if you want to spend the money. Intrax seem to be good and they advertise a 1.6 inch drop, I am pretty sure the suspension tech's are 1.3 inch drop though I could be wrong. I've throughly enjoyed my eibachs (advertised as one inch but I closed significantly more wheel gap) though I'm not running koni's they provide a nice mix between drop and comfort.

Or fix the driveway? lol

Ajilon
05-07-2007, 10:25 PM
that's my problem. I need MORE wheel gap. My tires are rubbing. I've had my fenders rolled and they're still rubbing.

I'm just not sure what to get. But I need to order them this week.

Murgatroy
05-07-2007, 10:55 PM
I think Eibach are gonna be your best bet.

If I am not mistaken any 5th gen (save for ST185) spring will work too, the `vert's weight will make up for the difference.

Luni
05-07-2007, 11:07 PM
Hmm... Anyone know this for sure?

If she can roll 5th gen springs then her options open up to more.

Ajilon
05-07-2007, 11:45 PM
From what I'm told, Eibach is engineered to work with Koni. Is that the case? What's it going to do to my handling? My car handles like a hot knife through butter. I don't want to subtract from that, but I have to do something or I'm going to eat tires and eventually body panels.

Fuelish
05-07-2007, 11:50 PM
the `vert's weight will make up for the difference. Huh ?? are you callin' us fat ??!!!????? huh ??? ;)
................not that I'd argue...verts are indeed porky .... heh

Ajilon
05-08-2007, 12:01 AM
Mine isn't porky! She's sleek and shiny and oh so teh sexxorz!
I'd sleep in my car if it were big enough. Since it's not, I'll just sleep ON it.

Murgatroy
05-08-2007, 01:12 AM
Someone get a hold of Adrian, he has the most extensive knowledge of the suspension that I can think of. He will have an absolute answer. I know folks have used 6th Gen Springs on a 5th Gen, the weight of the 5th will set the car lower though.

The 4th Gen is lighter isn't it? Thus the springs will be harder than what they are designed for, but as mentioned, the added weight of the `vert will make up for that. If there is a difference, it won't be by more than 200lbs I would think.

As far as I know, from what I have seen between Chaos and Mudhoney, I think the suspensions are pretty much identical. Adrian will know for sure.

Eibach springs are one of the most popular companies out there. I am sure there is a reason for that. If the springs were made to work with the Koni shocks, I would expect similar performance to what you have now, with only a height increase. Which is what you want.

If the springs are the same through all three generations, you have many many choices. Tein, Eibach, Dropzone, Ground Control, H&R, B&S, the list goes on.

Ground Control also makes a fairly decent coilover kit, using custom Eibach springs. If you were to get ahold of them, tell them your current set-up and the general weight of your car, and what you wanted, they would pick a proper spring rate with you. The price isn't the same as a drop in set of springs, and you might have to make a few minor modifications. The upside is doing it once, right, and being able to adjust everything if you ever want a change.

Murgatroy
05-08-2007, 01:13 AM
Oh, and I am still interested in the old springs. I mentioned that at the Dragon Meet, I just didn't think you were gonna change them this soon.

Luni
05-08-2007, 01:29 AM
Murg, if you use those old springs, you WILL need to use a set of ground controls to control ride height, and some shocks that can handle the stiff ass spring rate.

KYBs, and even Tokiko Illuminas will die on such an aggressive spring.

Murgatroy
05-08-2007, 01:34 AM
It is all part of the long term plan for Mudhoney. Remember, she is being purpose built.

I fired an email off to Adrian asking for verification, with a link to this thread.

Hopefully we will have a solid answer soon.

schmooot
05-08-2007, 02:23 AM
shox.com has tghe eibach prokit....free shipping

Futant3
05-08-2007, 03:58 AM
Since you are looking to gain a little wheel gap then Eibach should be good choice for you. Since changing my struts and springs I haven't hit my airdam on the ground but maybe once. My understanding is that Koni struts are designed a little shorter but have a comparable travel distance, so they fit well in lowered springs. Since you are too low they should be able to handle the slightly raised height just fine. Do you have upgraded swaybars too? If so what size and brand?

Pics from the day after install.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/Futant3/Celica/Side-Rim.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/Futant3/Celica/RearRim.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/Futant3/Celica/FrontRim-1.jpg

Sean
05-08-2007, 04:07 AM
Well, as to what I can give some advice on. I have vowed when I buy new springs to not buy the Pro-kit again.

I have had my Pro-kit springs for 5 years, and while they're a great match for my Koni's, have the perfect drop, and acceptable spring rates, they have begun to sag. The front right corner has sagged enough to throw camber out of alignment, I had to bring it back with a camber bolt.

Sadly, Eibach will not warranty their spring after 1 year. I'm thinking about H&R this time.

alltracman78
05-08-2007, 04:45 AM
If you're trying to improve handling, worry more about stiffer swaybars than springs.

IMO stiffer springs are a bandaid of sorts.

While they will stiffen up the ride/handling, their main purpose is to absorb road shock, not control body sway.....

If you can't find thicker ones for a 4th gen [ST165 ones are different than ST162] you can always try to find some adjustable endlinks to preload the bar more.
You probably won't find any 162 specific, but you can use others.
I have a set of Racing Beat Miata ones on my rear.
Fronts are quite a bit shorter than rears though.

alltracman78
05-08-2007, 04:45 AM
Oh, and yes I understand you want to raise the car, but you also expressed concern with changing the handling......

Murgatroy
05-08-2007, 05:54 AM
Alright, after talking to Adrian about it, he is not certain either. He thinks it will work, as all the systems were of similar design, if not the same one.

He suggests, as I did, calling either Eibach or Ground Control and getting verification. Since Eibach stocks parts for all 3 Generations, they should be able to tell you the dimensions of all the springs, if not the rates, to see if they are indeed the same dimensions.

KoreanJoey
05-08-2007, 07:06 AM
If you're trying to improve handling, worry more about stiffer swaybars than springs.

IMO stiffer springs are a bandaid of sorts.

While they will stiffen up the ride/handling, their main purpose is to absorb road shock, not control body sway.....

If you can't find thicker ones for a 4th gen [ST165 ones are different than ST162] you can always try to find some adjustable endlinks to preload the bar more.
You probably won't find any 162 specific, but you can use others.
I have a set of Racing Beat Miata ones on my rear.
Fronts are quite a bit shorter than rears though.

Negative... swaybars are supplementary to springs. The disadvantage of stiff swaybars is the fact they detract from the independent nature of our cars, not good. And remember, handling isn't only side to side but also pitch and dive.

Truthfully both have their places, springs are of course the primary force there but the swaybars help effectively increase spring rate underload as they connect one shock/spring to the other (using the shocks from BOTH sides of the car instead of one). Great for cars with softer spring rates that still want to reduce roll but on cars w/ proper spring rates super stiff swaybars aren't necessary.

Shadowlife25
05-08-2007, 07:20 AM
Unfortunately, in my experience going much more than 1.5 is more of a waste as it causes problems of this nature. A coil-over setup will allow you to adjust much more, but I know $$$ is tight so...

Also what is the tire profile? (40,50,60 ?) If you've had the fenders rolled already then a lower profile tire may be a better choice, since it seems you are quite happy with your handling setup.

KoreanJoey
05-08-2007, 07:31 AM
Unfortunately, in my experience going much more than 1.5 is more of a waste as it causes problems of this nature. A coil-over setup will allow you to adjust much more, but I know $$$ is tight so...

Also what is the tire profile? (40,50,60 ?) If you've had the fenders rolled already then a lower profile tire may be a better choice, since it seems you are quite happy with your handling setup.

Only problem with running a lower profile tire is that it'll make the car lower and will bust the airdam more often.

Shadowlife25
05-08-2007, 08:31 AM
Joey this is true, however stock springs with a lower profile tire may tide it over if she's got 'em around. At least until she gets a new setup (coil-over, whatever..)
Sorry I didn't clarify. :)

MrWOT
05-08-2007, 09:14 AM
ST165 Whiteline springs should fit the bill nicely.

Shadowlife25
05-08-2007, 09:27 AM
Any specs on these Rob?

grayscale
05-08-2007, 12:21 PM
Dobinsons at 185Performance (http://www.185performance.com/zen/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=4_6) Josh's specs there are kinda vague but I'm sure he has more specific info for a particular model.

MrWOT- where can you find the Whitelines?

Gina- are you sure about the 2.3"? Everything I can find says 1.3 or 1.4.

MrWOT
05-08-2007, 04:47 PM
https://935motorsports.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=41_44_55

Afraid you will have to call whiteline for the specs http://www.whiteline.com.au/ but having driven a 165 with them installed, they weren't quite stiff enough for the 165 with HARD use, so they should suit a 162 pretty well.

grayscale
05-08-2007, 05:41 PM
I thought the springs between alltracs and 2wd are not interchangable?

2kSnakEater
05-08-2007, 07:16 PM
2.3" is just fcking insane gangster drop, 1-1.5" should be enough.

Futant3
05-08-2007, 08:43 PM
just a guess by looking the pics I'd imagine she's already running as low a profile tire as is going to be available.

alltracman: know of any sites that have info on or sell endlinks? Eventually I'll be upgrading the bars and will want to replace those at the same time. I've got a sneaking suspicion that my fronts are already bent.

KoreanJoey
05-12-2007, 08:34 AM
I thought the springs between alltracs and 2wd are not interchangable?

They aren't supposed to be because the spring rates are hugely different, especially in the back (ran alltrac springs in the rear for a while and HELLO rotation!

85gtsblackman
05-12-2007, 12:15 PM
gina, once again

coil spring specailtys i think thats the right spelling

they will make u springs and not much more than ebaich

grayscale
05-12-2007, 01:45 PM
gina, once again

coil spring specailtys i think thats the right spelling

they will make u springs and not much more than ebaich
Custom made progressive lowering springs for around $200? I'ma have to check them out.

ChrisD
05-13-2007, 03:21 AM
I use intrax springs which I quite like. The drop is a nice amount, makes the car sit really nice - but not too low.

grayscale
05-13-2007, 04:32 AM
I use intrax springs which I quite like. The drop is a nice amount, makes the car sit really nice - but not too low.
How is the handling? That's her main concern, cause right now it handles like an f'n go kart but sits too low, she just wants to keep the handling as close to what she already has as she can.

ChrisD
05-13-2007, 08:05 PM
Handling is excellent. Mine is on the much heavier Alltrac too FWIW. Biggest thing you want IMHO is a progressive spring (such as intrax) for handling. You don't want a linear compression.

Kiasis
06-21-2007, 10:31 PM
Rick, at Toyhead, is selling "STI lowering sport coil springs. They will lower the car about 1-1/2 inches, will improve handling but still maintain excellent rid characteristics. $113.98 a pair ($227.96 all 4)."

Anyone had any experience w/ these?

What is the best combo for KYB GR2 (yeah, I know, big mistake, but I had them installed before I found CelicaTech)