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View Full Version : 93 GT vs 92 AllTrac



ciento44
04-18-2007, 08:22 AM
Talked to the guy running the red AllTrac today at the strip. Said he would probably be out on Friday to run again, and that he'd be interested in running me to see "by how much i'd beat you."

Looks like i have to get the GT going. The 'Rex would waste him i think.

Stock AllTrac with Blitz exhaust is about to get a wakeup call in 2 days.

I'll try to get pics and stuff. Hopefully a movie will make it's way around here.

2kSnakEater
04-18-2007, 03:37 PM
stock all-trac can be beaten by a stock 93 GT? what if he is stock + boost controler?

burnyd
04-18-2007, 03:38 PM
on the street!


you lost to a 7afe powered 7th gen now you want to go out beating up on boosted awd celicas!!

T-spoon
04-18-2007, 04:08 PM
So what's done to the GT to expect to win it? And yes, the Sti had better be able to waste a nearly stock all-trac..

geebes
04-18-2007, 06:15 PM
So what's done to the GT to expect to win it? And yes, the Sti had better be able to waste a nearly stock all-trac..

Who ever said anything about an Sti?

vip09
04-18-2007, 06:42 PM
I think he meant CRX.

T-spoon
04-18-2007, 06:49 PM
Who ever said anything about an Sti?

Yeah, crossed him up with someone else there for a second.

ciento44
04-18-2007, 09:27 PM
stock all-trac can be beaten by a stock 93 GT? what if he is stock + boost controler?

He's not. I saw him run. It was pretty terrible.


So what's done to the GT to expect to win it?

I just know what i can run with it, and it's faster than what he ran. ;) The GT is pretty stripped right now, too.... way more than it was last time i was at the track. Driver's seat only. Carpet and sound deadening out. I'm going to go take out the door panels and stuff tomorrow, too. The only think i'm worried about is my tires... they aren't too great.


I think he meant CRX.

Yeah, i don't think the 'rex would even be a fair contest. The 'rex hangs with my buddy's 1993 Civic Si-R II without much problem, and i know that Civic would waste a stock AT.

Cavanagh
04-18-2007, 11:35 PM
Getting the GT stripped for the swap?

As much as people dont want to belive it, that last statement is true. Those damned CRX's weigh near nothing.

ciento44
04-19-2007, 12:48 AM
Getting the GT stripped for the swap?

As much as people dont want to belive it, that last statement is true. Those damned CRX's weigh near nothing.

Nah, i'm just going to strip it for the track i think... after the swap is finally done, i don't think i'll be too worried about weight.

We'll see.

ciento44
04-19-2007, 01:26 AM
CHANG RUNS!!!

Little update on current how she looks. Bodywork will be done next weekend. Put the passenger seat back in.
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/7678/changgq3.th.jpg (http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=changgq3.jpg)
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/5862/chang2gs3.th.jpg (http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chang2gs3.jpg)

And Chang's little racing buddy. A 1992 GSR. (Yes. A real one.)
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/7703/terringsrum8.th.jpg (http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=terringsrum8.jpg)

Cavanagh
04-19-2007, 03:03 AM
Clear Corners FTW!!!! Looks good.

ciento44
04-19-2007, 04:11 AM
It don't run too well..... blew lots of gross smelling smoke when it started, and misfires at idle and below 1500rpms, but after that, it's all go.

So, i'll run with it. If i scatter the motor on Friday, i couldn't care less.

ciento44
04-20-2007, 08:33 PM
I know i already posted these... but this is where they belong.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/931/strip3bp1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/8876/strip2ly2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/8048/strip1yl4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I'm still working on it. I need a breaker bar to get the rear seatbelts out, and that c-pillar. Still need to decide if i should bother with door panels.

2kSnakEater
04-20-2007, 10:23 PM
does it really make a huge difference when you gut a car like that?

Cavanagh
04-20-2007, 10:32 PM
It should help, i dont think its a HUGE difference, but probably noticable. Think about it, all the carpet, seats, empty trunk, it starts to add up. We'll find out later since cient is at the track....

T-spoon
04-20-2007, 10:37 PM
does it really make a huge difference when you gut a car like that?

I forget which magazine it was, but they took a bone stock sentra to the track, pulled stuff off and documented the runs for each weight removal all the way down to sawing the top off and pulling all the panels. I'm sure it's been posted here before, but well, yeah, it makes a difference. With that amount of weight I doubt the difference is more than the normal variation between good runs and bad, but the potential fastest run will be faster probably by a matter of tenths.

grayscale
04-20-2007, 10:38 PM
Power to weight ratio. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-to-weight_ratio

A bigger help might come in the form of dumping those stock wheels. I wonder if he'll have anything to say about you stripping it down? If not you should ask the track if you can remove your hood while you're at it.

ciento44
04-20-2007, 11:20 PM
I forget which magazine it was, but they took a bone stock sentra to the track, pulled stuff off and documented the runs for each weight removal all the way down to sawing the top off and pulling all the panels. I'm sure it's been posted here before, but well, yeah, it makes a difference. With that amount of weight I doubt the difference is more than the normal variation between good runs and bad, but the potential fastest run will be faster probably by a matter of tenths.

By my estimations, i think i got around 300lbs out of the car, probably more if i include the system i had in there. I doubt i'll beat my previous best time, because i'm running on beat all-seasons, i'm just more wondering what difference it'll make in my trap speed. I'll be happy with low 16s, which shouldn't be too hard.


does it really make a huge difference when you gut a car like that?

So far, it really has. I've taken it out and driven it around the block a time or two, and it really masks the dead spots in the stock 5sfe powerband. It pulls hard from 2k all the way to just about 6k. It's noticably faster, more responsive, and ANNOYING AS SHIT to drive. :P

Melchior
04-21-2007, 12:45 AM
I'll be happy with low 16s,


So wait, you're saying the Alltrac ran in the 16's, or higher? Wow, did he forget to put spark plugs in it or something?

Shadowlife25
04-21-2007, 01:55 AM
Genral info I've found seems to point towards an approximate savings of 1/10th of a second per 100 ponds shaved. (This relates to 1/4 mile times)

2kSnakEater
04-21-2007, 06:27 AM
Genral info I've found seems to point towards an approximate savings of 1/10th of a second per 100 ponds shaved. (This relates to 1/4 mile times)


this is what Iv heard as well, and if gutting the car takes .3 off the 1/4 time, then thats not a huge improvement imho. Unless you were making a true race car that you are trying to squeeze every last bit out of it.

ciento44
04-21-2007, 07:17 AM
So wait, you're saying the Alltrac ran in the 16's, or higher? Wow, did he forget to put spark plugs in it or something?

He ran a 16.2 on two passes, and a 15.7 on the other. He just can't drive. Car runs fine.

I'd be happy with low 16s, because he was a pompous asshole that was convinced that he was going to beat me by about 2 seconds. He didn't show up.

And i didn't really get my low 16s, but i got faster than i thought i would. What was weird was that my trap speed was down about 7mph from last time i went with these same tires, but i was running about .2 faster.

Anyways.... i beat the 1992 GSR. And pretty badly. (We think there's a clutch engagement issue, bogged no matter what we did.) Other highlights were treeing a mustang GT so badly that he barely caught me by the quarter, watching an RB-powered S13 240sx pull a 1.5 60', the diesel trucks running 11s, and a shit-ton of ricers running 17s in their hand-me-down civics with fart cans and neons, and the GSR and i pulling the EXACT same reaction time on the one run that we went against each other.

Ricksta
04-21-2007, 03:30 PM
ciento clear your pm box and pm me bitch!

vip09
04-21-2007, 06:52 PM
Sooo.. what was your time and trap?

vip09
04-21-2007, 06:55 PM
When I stripped the interior in my GT-S it helped out a lot! I was running 9.2 at our 1/8th mile track here stock with full interior. When I took out the hatch plastics, rear seats, door panels, and passenger seat I ran a 8.9 in the 1/8th.

ciento44
04-22-2007, 06:27 PM
Well, i talked to a bunch of people that ran on Friday, and it seems that everyone was trapping low, but getting times that were about right, so i don't know what the issue was.

Anyways, on bald Kuhmo ASXs, i ran:

Run 1:
60' --- 2.413
330 --- 6.881
1/8 --- 10.662
mph --- 65.85
1000 --- 13.843
1/4 --- 16.575
mph --- 81.90


Run 2:
2.391
6.844
10.592
65.88
13.805
16.535
81.81

I'm pretty confident that with decent tires, and the track not acting weird, that i could get right back down around 16 flat.

I should have done bracket racing.... consistency seems to be good.

Ricksta
04-23-2007, 03:04 AM
ceinto did you still want the ic setup and exhaust?

celicatrd93
04-23-2007, 03:35 AM
I forget which magazine it was, but they took a bone stock sentra to the track, pulled stuff off and documented the runs for each weight removal all the way down to sawing the top off and pulling all the panels. I'm sure it's been posted here before, but well, yeah, it makes a difference. With that amount of weight I doubt the difference is more than the normal variation between good runs and bad, but the potential fastest run will be faster probably by a matter of tenths.
i have seen that, that was great. also here is a link for weight ratio's....
http://www.importmodifications.com/celicaweightred.html

ciento44
04-23-2007, 04:01 AM
ceinto did you still want the ic setup and exhaust?

Of course i do. But like i said before, if you have someone that's wanting them, please sell it to them, because i'm not working right now for another week or so, and it probably won't be until the end of may or early june until i have the money for you for them.

If you want to donate, send them my way. ;) But i'd rather see you get some money out of them, and not wait on me if you need that stuff moved now.

Get at me on aim. "Ibyossarian" is the screen name. :)

Dan_Q
04-23-2007, 10:23 PM
Good work mate, thats half a tenth off my best time with a GE lump :bowdown:

My car is partially stripped too, its kind of complete from the B posts forward, and mostly stripped from B posts back.

Cracking stuff, and keep us all posted on any developments- man i think I'm getting the bug for this drag racing scene, need more practice though cos my cars main defect is its driver :hehe:

ciento44
04-24-2007, 12:33 AM
Good work mate, thats half a tenth off my best time with a GE lump :bowdown:

My car is partially stripped too, its kind of complete from the B posts forward, and mostly stripped from B posts back.

Cracking stuff, and keep us all posted on any developments- man i think I'm getting the bug for this drag racing scene, need more practice though cos my cars main defect is its driver :hehe:

Thanks man. :)

That was actually well off my best time in this car. The bald all seasons were really killing me. Had a bunch of wheel spin on the 1-2 shift, and launching was plain out hell.

I may try again tomorrow. :)

Azzazzyn
04-24-2007, 04:39 PM
see talk abotu running a pretty much stock celi on here at the track, and no bashing, now do that on a 240 forum and you'll get scolded for months

Cavanagh
04-25-2007, 02:27 AM
i have seen that, that was great. also here is a link for weight ratio's....
http://www.importmodifications.com/celicaweightred.html
Nice find y0.

ciento44
04-25-2007, 02:34 AM
Went again. Made three runs.

16.6, 16.5, 16.4. Then they shut down the track. Beat the 92 GSR again, until his very last run when i guess he started to learn how to drive, and threw down a still kinda sad, but faster than me 15.8. I'm running it next Tuesday, and we'll see a 15.0 then.

Anyways, here's the best one. Again, running on bald Kuhmo ASX all seasons, (34psi) totally blown suspension, (as in all struts gone, and swaybar endlinks and mounts all broken) and a mediocre-ly prepped track.

60' --- 2.357
330 --- 6.790
1/8 --- 10.543
mph --- 65.75
1000 --- 13.758
1/4 --- 16.486
MPH --- 81.96

The only thing i can think of that's keeping my trap speed so low compared to last season is that i was running 195/60-15s last season, vs the 205/55-15s this season.

I'll upload some pics of tonite in a little bit. Couple interesting things out, such as a Supercharged Z06 running 10.0 @ 142.

grayscale
04-25-2007, 03:38 AM
see talk abotu running a pretty much stock celi on here at the track, and no bashing, now do that on a 240 forum and you'll get scolded for months
So what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

Dan_Q
04-25-2007, 04:17 AM
16.486- that beats my 16.488! superb mate, very well done :)

with progress like that, your definitely looking at high 15's. Good louck mate, hope you break into the 15's soon :) and keep us posted :)

ciento44
04-25-2007, 04:41 AM
16.486- that beats my 16.488! superb mate, very well done :)

with progress like that, your definitely looking at high 15's. Good louck mate, hope you break into the 15's soon :) and keep us posted :)

I've been there.... but not on all seasons. :p

I'm not sure how much farther these tires are going to take me. Launches are interesting. ;)

I'm just mostly entertaining myself until i get through a swap.

'Rex is down for brakes and idle air control valve right now, then maybe we'll see what i can pull out of that, too.

gt4wannabe
04-25-2007, 02:15 PM
Maaan thats sad if a bone stock AT can't beat a gutted GT. LOL Seriously geeze gimme that all-trac he doesn't deserve to drive it. Maybe he just sucks at launching on 4wd.....? Even if you granny shifted through 1,2,3 the AT shouldn't even have a problem pulling away......? LOL musta left his spark plugs at home or one cyl's blown HEHE

ciento44
04-25-2007, 06:21 PM
Maaan thats sad if a bone stock AT can't beat a gutted GT. LOL Seriously geeze gimme that all-trac he doesn't deserve to drive it. Maybe he just sucks at launching on 4wd.....? Even if you granny shifted through 1,2,3 the AT shouldn't even have a problem pulling away......? LOL musta left his spark plugs at home or one cyl's blown HEHE

He did better yesterday. Pulled a 15.7 @ 93... But on a fresh rebuilt with aftermarket turbo manifold, supra CT26 and a few more little goodies, i'm still not impressed. I was pulling better 60's than he was all night. But he's still ahead of me.

It is a gorgeous car though... damn thing is in mint condition. It's a 1990 with 98k miles. The way it was moving when he wasn't shifting or launching, i would bet i could get around a 15.0 out of it.

I'm really tempted to do a full exhaust (have a buddy that works at a welding shop, i'd get it done for cost of materials), gut the rest of the car, take out the power steering and AC, and try to score a cheap used SAFCII. I'd be willing to bet i could break 15s without summer tires. :P

johnL
05-01-2007, 08:10 PM
I know i already posted these... but this is where they belong.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/931/strip3bp1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/8876/strip2ly2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/8048/strip1yl4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I'm still working on it. I need a breaker bar to get the rear seatbelts out, and that c-pillar. Still need to decide if i should bother with door panels.


You still have a lot of sound deading stuff to take out there!!

ciento44
05-01-2007, 08:27 PM
Yeah, i know. I didn't touch that stuff. I'm still DDing this car while the CRX is down while i scrape money for brakes for it.

I'm getting all the body work done on it here, soon, and when i do that, i'll have to take the interior back out again, because of two small holes in the floor, and some rust that went through the side. I'll take it out, then. :)

How much weight do you think that really is? You're the guy that stripped the hell out of a GT-S, right? Got something like 500lbs out of it?

eatdirt40
05-02-2007, 12:31 AM
Good runs hopefully you can cut off some more time.

ciento44
05-02-2007, 03:40 AM
Thanks man. :)

I'm pretty sure i'll be able to cut some off with some decent tires. :)

johnL
05-02-2007, 07:01 PM
Yes, I have the GTS that went on a diet and lost over 400lbs.

I would say 20lbs for all the tar type sound deading stuff still left in the car. I suggest taking that off when its cold outside. The tar really likes to stick to the metal. Also you still have your dash and the heater core, a/c. The door panels are not worth much in weight. Doors are 75lbs each with the glass in them. My goal is still 2000lbs. 375lbs left to go. Rear hatch (GTS) is really heavy. I have one in the garage I should weigh. Your stock hood is 40lbs. I heard aftermarket glass hoods are only 8!!! Your GT is lighter from the factory. Get it on a scale see where you are at.

John L.

slow_yota
05-07-2007, 04:48 PM
cento44..You have a 5sfe in there right?

ciento44
05-07-2007, 06:25 PM
cento44..You have a 5sfe in there right?

Yep. A bone stock, high mile, all original, never had any work done on it for any reason 5sfe. ;)

slow_yota
05-08-2007, 12:05 AM
Where is greenwood?..I know an echo that would want to take on an high milage, bone stock, 5sfe. I4 vs I4..it would be close. ;p

ciento44
05-08-2007, 02:14 AM
Greenwood is about 10 minutes south of Indianapolis. I can see the skyline from my balcony.

Are we going to have some special olympics? If it's sprayed, or really has anything done to it, i'll just cede the race right now. ;)

slow_yota
05-08-2007, 03:32 AM
1800 Lb..car with me in it.. 130 N/A hp + 50 wet shot..you do the math :D

ciento44
05-08-2007, 05:13 AM
1800 Lb..car with me in it.. 130 N/A hp + 50 wet shot..you do the math :D


Hahha yeah.... fuck a bunch of that. :P

slow_yota
05-08-2007, 05:49 AM
Come on..Its an Echo. :P
Gotta ♥ the sleeper chic car

ciento44
05-08-2007, 07:47 AM
Give me a sec while i do some math...

Ok, here's the deal. I'll race you in a 1992 Integra GSR with intake, header, and exhaust.

237k original miles, no rebuild. 1.7 litre engine with VTTAAAAAKKKKK!!!11!!

slow_yota
05-08-2007, 05:16 PM
Well..i have a 1.3 in the echo and you have a 1.7 so by the local street racing "laws" i get a 2 car length head start a the .25 mile run..Good?

ciento44
05-08-2007, 06:38 PM
Well..i have a 1.3 in the echo and you have a 1.7 so by the local street racing "laws" i get a 2 car length head start a the .25 mile run..Good?

Lol wut?

If this is going to turn into Pinks then i think i'm getting lengths. I outweigh you by literally 1000lbs, and it's probably pretty safe to say that you're making at least the power that the GSR is.

130 + a 50shot, i'd place around 170-175 crank hp.

The GSR made 160 stock, 14 years ago, before it had 237k miles put on it. I'd say with the intake, header, and exhaust, it might be making that 160-165 crank hp again. ;)

I'd say your local street racing laws are silly. Because if i raced you in the celica, i'd have to give you 4 lengths? :squint:

slow_yota
05-08-2007, 06:56 PM
You need to put that bitch on a diet!
Sorry..thats how we roll around here..For every 2/10th of more displacment of engine you get one car length.

*You know you're white when have "silly" in youre vocab :D

ciento44
05-08-2007, 07:11 PM
So, my buddy's B16 hatch would give up only 1.5 lengths?

slow_yota
05-08-2007, 08:35 PM
i guess so

T-spoon
05-08-2007, 08:54 PM
The displacement-head start deal is just hillarious. That's aweful. So 800HP Supras would get a big head start on a mostly stock Mustang? LOLOL

ciento44
05-08-2007, 09:15 PM
i guess so


Ok, you name the time, and when you want to come down here. It's on with the 1993 Civic Si-R II. ;)

slow_yota
05-09-2007, 02:59 AM
Ok, you name the time, and when you want to come down here. It's on with the 1993 Civic Si-R II. ;)
With any of my cars...DEAL !

. . . Racing V8's has a different stratagy, DuH ! :brick:

ciento44
05-09-2007, 04:12 AM
The other cars weren't in the deal.... this is a 4-banger game only. I'm just trying to set up a fair race with the light, sprayed echo.

Take your choice. Fair race with the Echo, would be heads up with the Si-R II, or the 92 GSR. Probably the GSR would be more fair.

Cavanagh
05-09-2007, 04:14 AM
:popcorn:

ciento44
05-09-2007, 04:31 AM
I really don't want to start drama...

But bring your car to O'Reilly Raceway any tuesday, and you can run the GSR or SI-R II whenever you want. Hell, even probably an SOHC Neon, you can run.

I'm done wasting my gas on dragging the 5sfe unless i happen to get my new wheels and tires before the swap, which probably isn't going to happen.

And i'm done street racing for awhile, i can't afford another ticket of any kind at this point.

slow_yota
05-09-2007, 04:10 PM
Bro chill..No drama here.
I was playin with you, The Soop is on jack stands with no engine anyways.
I was straight up with you on what i have..What kind of hp does the civic have?

ciento44
05-09-2007, 07:29 PM
Bro chill..No drama here.
I was playin with you, The Soop is on jack stands with no engine anyways.
I was straight up with you on what i have..What kind of hp does the civic have?


Stock with bolts ons. Intake, header, exhaust, clutch, flywheel. Probably weighs about 2100lbs. 160-165 hp. (B16)

The GSR is stock with intake, header, exhaust. Weighs 2700-2800lbs, maybe 170hp on a great day. (B17)

These are all crank numbers.

I'd run the echo non-sprayed in the GT. I've got 5hp, some torque, and weigh 900lbs more. (interior is back in)

The 'rex is still awaiting brakes, and woudn't be a fair race anyways. I'd have to give you some serious lengths. ;)

slow_yota
05-10-2007, 02:25 AM
What the hell is the Rex?

ciento44
05-10-2007, 04:30 AM
What the hell is the Rex?

The CRX. ;)

Luni
05-10-2007, 08:02 AM
Ciento if youre looking for a cheap used SAFC2 look at dsmtalk.com theyre always selling one.

If you do want one (they have a 50 limit post) let me know and Ill pick it up for you.

ciento44
05-10-2007, 08:42 PM
Ciento if youre looking for a cheap used SAFC2 look at dsmtalk.com theyre always selling one.

If you do want one (they have a 50 limit post) let me know and Ill pick it up for you.


Thanks for the offer Rob, but it'll be awhile. ;) I'll probably take you up on it, i'll probably be wanting one this summer for the swap later.

grayscale
05-10-2007, 08:48 PM
Ciento if youre looking for a cheap used SAFC2 look at dsmtalk.com theyre always selling one.

If you do want one (they have a 50 limit post) let me know and Ill pick it up for you.
Like how cheap?

geebes
05-13-2007, 12:55 AM
Hey ciento, have you seen any difference with all the weight drop? For quickness?

ciento44
05-14-2007, 12:14 AM
Hey ciento, have you seen any difference with all the weight drop? For quickness?


I've got it all back in again, but i'll go back. ;)

Yeah, it was quite a bit different, and i really wish i had the tires to get a good time out of it when i ran it. As you can see in the slips, my 60' is pretty abysmal, and for some reason, my trap speed is WAY lower than it was last season. I don't know if my engine is finally giving up the ghost, or if my 195/60-15s from last season would have made THAT much difference.

Anyways, yes. Huge difference on the street, at least.

Take this description with a grain of salt, it IS a 5sfe, after all.

Anyways, the car positively RIPPED through 1st and 2nd gears. Throttle response as a whole felt much better. Where i really felt the most difference was in 3rd gear, however. As you've probably noticed, 3rd gear SUCKS in our cars. The gap between 2nd and 3rd is probably the topmost feature in our cars that infuriates me. That huge feeling of lack of power right after the 2-3 shift is now gone. Just gets up and goes. I easily kept up with my friend's GSR until about 2/3rds of the way through my 3rd gear, which is a bit of an improvement.

Now, the caveat. ONLY do this for drag racing. Maybe it was my shot suspension, maybe it was my dead swaybar mounts and endlinks, but it handled like SHIT.

91 Celica GT-S
06-08-2007, 04:23 AM
tip for removing sound deadner buy some dry ice throw it there for a few mins hit with a hammer brakes off like nobodys business just remove it as soon as you break it off otherwise itll stick back on as it warms up