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Gizil
02-02-2005, 11:10 PM
who ever answers this riddle will win 20 bucks. why wont my 92 celica gts start when i have spark, fuel and air? it just died on me one day when i turned it on and left it running while i was shoveling snow. she turns over fine but just wont start...

Mister2T
02-02-2005, 11:46 PM
timing belt, or jumped time. Could be bad ground on the battery, could be loose relay in fusebox.

Luni
02-03-2005, 12:04 AM
20 dollar answer.

Check your timing belt, run a compression test (fuel plus spark is nothing without comp).

Let us know how that goes.

Punisher
02-03-2005, 03:07 PM
Yea.. a loose battery connection.. yet it still cranks fine.. great answer.

Like Luni says.. it's either that the timing is off.. maybe your belt snapped (remember toyota motors are non-interference so you won't have any engine damage or loud crushing sounds if the belt breaks lol).. or it coulda slipped a tooth.. who knows.. but most likely it's the timing.. I doubt that you would've just lost compression.. blew headgasket or compression rings idling.. Although.. timing belt couldn't of broke because you said you still have spark.. from all the plugs right? If so that means your dizzy is still spinning which means you atleast still have your timing belt.. I'd do a compression test.. see how that looks and from there.. I mean belt coulda just skipped a few teeth.. I know from expirence that if your timing is to far off all you will get is cranking.. since shit is to far off the spark and intake and exhaust valves just don't work together properly.. I mean I could just ramble on here all day about this or that.. maybe I will.. hmmmmmmm I think me and Luni should get 10 bucks each.

Luni
02-03-2005, 04:50 PM
AHA but if the timing belt is snapped, and the cams are off, they are stuck, the vavles are open and there could be little to no compression.

So when you slip a timing belt, the 2 go hand in hand.


Edit. Yeah Punisher said that too.

Wheres our 20 dolla?

Punisher
02-03-2005, 09:10 PM
specializedpc @ yahoo . com is my paypal addy.. you can send over 10 bucks whenever you get the chance ;)

He says he has spark.. so I doubt the timing belt snapped.. or else he wouldn't be getting any spark.. or the comedy of it would be if the dizzy rotor stopped on a cap tower.. only 1 plug would be getting spark then.. so atleast you'd know something was muff'd up.. lol. I guess easiest thing to do is pop dizzy cap and crank it.. see if the rotor spins or not

Luni
02-04-2005, 02:51 AM
Ive seen spark occur on a car that had a dead timing belt (it slipped cogs so it was out of time)

I also seen the same thing on a car that blew his headgasket too..

Gizil
02-05-2005, 01:09 AM
checked compression its fine about 180psi. all sparks are good i put a msd on there cause i thought the spark was weak, now the spark is better than ever. was about to check the timing but someone busted the timing light. also checked the ecu in the mean time, its all good. and the rotor on the dizzy is spining fine.

alltracman78
02-05-2005, 01:24 AM
You need to get that light fixed...
Also,

Have you tried a shot of starter fluid to see what happens?
Have you tried to pull any codes from the ecu?

Punisher
02-05-2005, 02:57 AM
Well then.. Does nothing at all happen? Like it just cranks and cranks and cranks and it doesn't try to start at all?

Personally I think your timing belt jumped.. You'll need your timing light I guess.

Jigglypuff
02-05-2005, 03:50 AM
Are you sure your fuel is good?

Edit: That is, is your fuel not tainted with water/whatever?

Gizil
02-05-2005, 10:42 AM
im sure the fuel is good before, i tried spraying a mist of good fuel right into the tb and still nothing. yeah i can crank the car all day and it does even try to hesitate to start. also when the car first borke down i pulled a tps code but i check the tps and it is good so i disconnected the battery now there are no codes.

Punisher
02-05-2005, 02:41 PM
TPS doesn't mean shit for starting though.. it would still start... idle may be floppy but that's it... I guess before all else, pull your spark plugs and shoot starter fluid down into the cylinder and see if that even gives you a jump.. are you sure your injectors are actually working?

Gizil
02-05-2005, 10:19 PM
yeah the injectors are working cuz when i took out a spark plugs out and cranked it i could see the fuel shooting out. also dont know what this means: but when i was doing that my bro pluged one of the spark plugs in and held it by one of the holes and we actually got detenation.

Punisher
02-05-2005, 10:56 PM
yea.. that's afun test.. take all your plugs out.. leave em in the boots and sit them over the holes while you crank.. nice big flames lol..

Ok, so you got fuel.. compression.. spark.. the last and only thing that it could be is timing.. headgasket is good and the head is good.. or else you wouldn't of gotten compression.. even if 1 cylinder or fuck even if 2 cylinders were shot.. you'd still atleast get SOME sort of kick over.. it's gotta be your timing buddy.. I'll put 20 bucks on it.. Your ECU is good because you got spark and fuel.. so that is all working.. no blown fuses.. the only POSSIBLE thing it could be is fucked up timing. Your timing belt might be really loose and just hopped a few teeth.

I've even put plug wires on wrong and the car still started.. idled for shit.. but it still started.. YET.. i've fucked valve timing up before and all i got was crankity crankity crank.. no starting at all.. didn't even come close to kicking over.

Punisher
02-05-2005, 10:59 PM
another thing you can try that'll be easy enough.. by-pass your MSD.. get your ignition back to stock.. i'm betting it'll start then.. and if not atleast that is one thing you can check off as not causing the problem.

Jigglypuff
02-05-2005, 11:19 PM
yea.. that's afun test.. take all your plugs out.. leave em in the boots and sit them over the holes while you crank.. nice big flames lol..

Ok, so you got fuel.. compression.. spark.. the last and only thing that it could be is timing.. headgasket is good and the head is good.. or else you wouldn't of gotten compression.. even if 1 cylinder or fuck even if 2 cylinders were shot.. you'd still atleast get SOME sort of kick over.. it's gotta be your timing buddy.. I'll put 20 bucks on it.. Your ECU is good because you got spark and fuel.. so that is all working.. no blown fuses.. the only POSSIBLE thing it could be is fucked up timing. Your timing belt might be really loose and just hopped a few teeth.

I've even put plug wires on wrong and the car still started.. idled for shit.. but it still started.. YET.. i've fucked valve timing up before and all i got was crankity crankity crank.. no starting at all.. didn't even come close to kicking over.I'm skeptical the timing is at fault since compression is still normal. It wouldn't hurt to still check into it, though. If it's not the timing, I'm stumped.

Punisher
02-06-2005, 02:35 AM
Good thoughts JigglyPuff.. I didn't think about that.. hmm I'm betting it's the MSD then.

Gizil
02-08-2005, 04:01 AM
msd was put on after it broke down, and i have tried without the msd. checked timing and its at 5 degrees, any more ideas...

Jigglypuff
02-08-2005, 04:13 AM
Are the plug wires installed correctly?

Edit: As in, are the plugs firing in the correct order?

Punisher
02-08-2005, 05:17 AM
Timing is wrong.. I guess you mean 5BTDC with the terminals shorted.. stock is 10.. anything below 10 is trash. If you mean 5BTDC without the terminals shorted then that is REALLY off... however, you can only short those terminals in the diag box with the engine running.. to check your dizzy timing.. so I guess that isn't what you mean..

Punisher
02-08-2005, 05:20 AM
Did you check fuel pressure?

Gizil
02-08-2005, 09:33 PM
i installed a 255lph pump when the car died, although i didnt check the fuel pressure i did kink the return line so there has to be enough pressure. also when the car istarting it goes by the timing set by the dizzy cup it only changes when the car starts, so the timing is now at 15btdc even thought the terminals aren't jumped

MoralWarfare
02-08-2005, 10:35 PM
is your car plugged in?

Gizil
02-08-2005, 11:22 PM
plugged into what...

Santa
02-08-2005, 11:24 PM
Fuel filter is clogged?

edit: nevermind, i didn't read the above answers.

MoralWarfare
02-08-2005, 11:29 PM
plugged into what...
the outlet.

YangS
02-11-2005, 09:19 PM
who ever answers this riddle will win 20 bucks. why wont my 92 celica gts start when i have spark, fuel and air? it just died on me one day when i turned it on and left it running while i was shoveling snow. she turns over fine but just wont start...

I bet you probably know this answer but I will give it a shot. Could it be the battery? Battery could be very low/weak since you left the car on instead of start. When you were shoveling your snow.
Or maybe you got snow inside of your motor? water mix with oil.
Or did you run open intake and your intake could of suck in debris?
Or did you over crank and the alternator went out? or starter?

mighty
02-12-2005, 06:59 AM
:wiggle: CONDENSATION IN YOUR DISTRIBUTER CAP :wiggle:

Blackcloud
02-12-2005, 08:33 AM
your flux capacitor is only putting out 1megawatt

Luni
02-12-2005, 05:21 PM
msd was put on after it broke down, and i have tried without the msd. checked timing and its at 5 degrees, any more ideas...

5 degrees?

How do you check timing if the car doesnt run.

You need to physically check your timing.. maybe your timing belt slipped a cog or something.

Punisher
02-12-2005, 08:04 PM
Belts rarely rarely slip specially just sitting at idle.. I personally think this guy is fucked and SOL (shit outta luck) because me and everyone else here can type all day long with possible issues and shit like this is sooo fucking hard to diagnose with out being there.

Luni
02-12-2005, 09:48 PM
Belts rarely rarely slip specially just sitting at idle.. I personally think this guy is fucked and SOL (shit outta luck) because me and everyone else here can type all day long with possible issues and shit like this is sooo fucking hard to diagnose with out being there.

Shit happened to me....

and it slipped far enough I still had fuel and spark but no start. I even still had compression.

Thats why I mention it.

Punisher
02-13-2005, 03:34 AM
Well, jiggly mentioned that if it was out far enough to not start that the compression would be wack.. but I mean I don't know.. seriously though, it's pointless to sit here and throw shit in the air.. Since he has fuel, spark and compression.. if timing was set right he would atleast (if something was fucked up with the ECU like wiring to it or what not) he would still have combustion and would still get some sort of kicking from the engine.. so the only logical answer to this is that his timing belt or something got fucked up with the crank/cam timing.

I just figured out tonite after advancing my dizzy spark timing even further.. almost full way now.. I mean I am past 15BTDC in spark timing.. probably at like 18-19 now.. and yes that is with the diag terminals jumped...

Doing 25mph I put it into 5th gear.. and romp the gas peddle.. no pinging.. uh huh.. that's really odd.. lots of stress there on the motor and no pinging.. so I know that my crank/cam timing is out and that would probably explain why I need my dizzy timing so far advance to get a comfortable driveability.. otherwise it bucks like hell going into second.. that plus it's sluggish till it gets up around 4K then it takes off like I have a turbo.. that's all crank/cam timing and I need to look into this now. I'm really discovering that the last owner had a moron mechanic working on this car from a few things I've come across so far.