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View Full Version : Blacktop in a 92 celica?



JEDI
04-13-2007, 10:09 AM
Just wondering if anyone has done this because I think I am going to take this project on. Its a white ST by the way. Ill post pics soon.

KoreanJoey
04-13-2007, 10:15 AM
That'd be pretty sweet... I don't know anyone who's done a blacktop but there are a couple silvertops around.

zmile06
04-13-2007, 01:28 PM
Sell me your trunk lid.

Hookecho
04-13-2007, 01:54 PM
go for it, and take many pics!

burnyd
04-13-2007, 02:02 PM
havent really seen it yet, I think because of hte price of the motor.. silvertops are pretty cheep now.

JEDI
04-13-2007, 06:19 PM
Well I was wondering if nobody has done it beacause there would be issues. If not then I am going to order this engine. I will keep everyone posted. Heres the pics. Its a really clean car.

PhillyDRFT
04-13-2007, 06:35 PM
It'll fit your mounts. basicaly the same install as the silvertop, it's just the price comparason between the two that stops most blacktop swaps, the only difference is wiring. It's doable.

Silvertops jumped in price BTW thery average 900-1k for engine, harness and ECU. they used to be around 500$

91 celica st
04-13-2007, 07:47 PM
It'll fit your mounts. basicaly the same install as the silvertop, it's just the price comparason between the two that stops most blacktop swaps, the only difference is wiring. It's doable.

Silvertops jumped in price BTW thery average 900-1k for engine, harness and ECU. they used to be around 500$

it dosent fit the motormounts. i have already tried this
the only way it will drop right in withought any problem is if you use the 4afe tranny and all the 4afe mounts. the 6speed does not fit correctly in the celica bay

PhillyDRFT
04-13-2007, 08:21 PM
it dosent fit the motormounts. i have already tried this
the only way it will drop right in withought any problem is if you use the 4afe tranny and all the 4afe mounts. the 6speed does not fit correctly in the celica bay

I was under the impression the 6speed is a RWD transmission to begin with so I was more or less speeking about A series engine into A series mounts.

91 celica st
04-13-2007, 09:34 PM
no theres a 6 speed FWD tranny associated with the blactop

91 celica st
04-13-2007, 09:35 PM
it comes out of the AE111 witch is a FWD car

PhillyDRFT
04-13-2007, 09:36 PM
I stand corrected then. I thought most AE chassis overseas were RWD.

JEDI
04-14-2007, 07:20 AM
So should I get just the engine then? I realise the 6 speed wont fit but will the blacktops with the 5 speed fit?

Colossus20v
04-14-2007, 07:26 AM
Get a whole clip. Sell the 6 speed tranny if you want and just use your 4afe tranny. I would not recommend just the engine and stuff unless you want a headache.

JEDI
04-14-2007, 07:45 AM
Will the 4afe tranny hold up to this engine? I replaced the clutch a few months back and it seemed like really light duty stuff. There wasnt even a pilot bearing used in the design wich I thought was odd

JEDI
04-14-2007, 08:34 AM
I was also considering maybe a silver top but want to be different. I dont want a clip because the shipping would be way more expensive and Im an extremely talented mechanic and electrician. I also weld and fabricate so I think I could easily deal without a clip as long as it comes with all assesories needed to run such as http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=019&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=290102180591&rd=1,1 This one has the MAF, ignitor, ecu, and uncut harness. seems to be complete but its a silvertop. Blacktops dont need the MAF so it might be easier.

JEDI
04-14-2007, 08:38 AM
Look here also, Doesnt have the ecu and harness but I see alot of those for sale on ebay.

JEDI
04-14-2007, 08:38 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-4AGE-Black-Top-20-Valve-90-96-Corolla-170-hp_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33615QQihZ019QQitemZ 290103432494QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

geebes
04-14-2007, 04:15 PM
I'm being lazy, but what is the diff between a blacktop and silvertop?

Murgatroy
04-14-2007, 04:26 PM
The Blacktop is the newer variant. It can also run open ITBs, the Silvertop is MAF, the Blacktop is MAP. It makes about 10 HP more.

The open ITBs is a groovy plus. However it is harder to find a Blacktop, and they are more expensive.

They are not as researched as a 3SGTE swap, but a 20v is just as viable for ST owners as the 3SGTE is for GT/GT-S owners. Personally I prefer NA and love the sound of ITBs. Throttle repsonse is most awesome too.

JEDI
04-14-2007, 08:32 PM
The blacktop also has lightened internals, Bigger valves and throttle bodies if Im not mistaken

geebes
04-14-2007, 08:35 PM
OOOH! Very nice!

Shadowlife25
04-14-2007, 08:58 PM
Friend of mine has a blacktop in his AE86 with ITB's. Sounds frickin' sweet when it's wide open!

91 celica st
04-15-2007, 03:35 AM
The Blacktop is the newer variant. It can also run open ITBs, the Silvertop is MAF, the Blacktop is MAP. It makes about 10 HP more.

The open ITBs is a groovy plus. However it is harder to find a Blacktop, and they are more expensive.

They are not as researched as a 3SGTE swap, but a 20v is just as viable for ST owners as the 3SGTE is for GT/GT-S owners. Personally I prefer NA and love the sound of ITBs. Throttle repsonse is most awesome too.
silvertop is AFM and blacktop is MAP
lighter internals (ALOT lighter nearly 50 grams on the rods)
head design is diffrent. vavle size is defferent
supposibly the cams are more agressive on the blacktops as well

90CelicaST
04-15-2007, 05:22 AM
Lighter internals=weaksauce for turbo applications. Have you seen the rods on the Blacktops? Fricken toothpicks man, I think 7A rods have a better chance of withstanding boost.

In all honesty, I don't see the Blacktop's wiring being any more difficult that the Silvertop, as long as you have the entire harness.

PhillyDRFT
04-15-2007, 05:35 AM
Do ither of them use Variable Valve Timing?

90CelicaST
04-15-2007, 06:01 AM
Both the Silver- and Black-tops use VVT on the intake cam. Both have Individual Throttle Bodies(ITBs).

JEDI
04-15-2007, 09:08 AM
I have no plans on any boost. I just want a fun road car. I have old muscle for drags. The blacktop has higher compression also. Im not going to run any boost but maybee a small wet shot of nitros just for kicks and show.

JEDI
04-15-2007, 09:14 AM
Lighter internals=weaksauce for turbo applications. Have you seen the rods on the Blacktops? Fricken toothpicks man, I think 7A rods have a better chance of withstanding boost.

In all honesty, I don't see the Blacktop's wiring being any more difficult that the Silvertop, as long as you have the entire harness.

I think it might be a tad bit simpler because its map. Makes no difference to me though.

JEDI
04-15-2007, 10:17 AM
Nice built silvertop with cams! look http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUYwe6u6Hyo

90CelicaST
04-15-2007, 06:56 PM
^^Camming 4a= SEX TO MUH EARS!!

JEDI
04-16-2007, 06:55 AM
Also I was wondering if anyone runs e85? I would like to run this in the blacktop.

PhillyDRFT
04-16-2007, 07:03 AM
Also I was wondering if anyone runs e85? I would like to run this in the blacktop.

This has been covered. It's not really an efficent fuel source as normal petrol. try to do a search and you might find the thread. IMHO it's not the best thing to run. stick to pump gas. But it is doable you might want to look into the effects first.