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Conrad_Turbo
03-16-2007, 05:41 PM
Okay no promises but I am just putting this out there to gauge some interest on chassis braces for the 5th Gen Liftback Celica.

Looking at Bulletproof's (http://www.bulletproofautomotive.com/) website (photos from there as well) there are a few options for braces for the ST18X.

Front 3 point brace:
Jspeed - $341.25 List Price - $307.12 Sale Price
http://www.bulletproofautomotive.com/items/1237.jpg

Rear 3 point brace:
Jspeed - $341.25 List Price - $307.12 Sale Price
http://www.bulletproofautomotive.com/items/1247.jpg

Underbody brace:
Cusco - $195 List Price - $152.10 Sale Price
http://www.bulletproofautomotive.com/items/cuscost185lab.jpg
Jspeed - $245.70 List Price
http://www.bulletproofautomotive.com/items/1240.jpg

I only build parts that I know will work, so unless I can see proof of the side tower braces actually work...I won't bother building them. They look to be a money grab to me.

As for my work, all of it is TIG welded, lasercut, formed in a hydraulic press and built with very small tolerance jigs. All the above parts are MIG welded which allows for poor fitment and excess filler metal. Now with this being said a lot of you guys know me and the work I do, but here are a few sample shots I have lately kicking on my server (anything on the ACE site is a bit dated...I build parts not websites ;) ).

ST205 - ST185 custom TB adapter made for ChrisD
http://www.aceengineering.ca/Temp/IMG_1624.JPG
http://www.aceengineering.ca/Temp/IMG_1623.JPG

Starlet production strut tower braces
http://www.aceengineering.ca/Temp/IMG_0727.JPG
http://www.aceengineering.ca/Temp/IMG_0729.JPG
http://www.aceengineering.ca/Temp/IMG_0768.JPG

A "box" TIG welded and artificially aged
http://www.aceengineering.ca/Temp/IMG_0713.JPG

Unrelated...this is what I made my GF for Valentines Day. As you can tell I pay very close attention to detail (for scale the base is 1"x1" square tubing about 8 inches long)
http://www.aceengineering.ca/Temp/8.JPG

I pay very close attention to detail and produce some very high quality parts whether it be for cars or otherwise. Those are just the latest photos kicking around on my server.

Now the purpose of this thread there has been some request to build braces. I can do that but I need to know a few things:

What is your reason for wanting a brace from ACE as compared to Cusco or Jspeed? Cost? Quality? Want different color? Don't like their design? Any other reason?

Rio_Cyber
03-16-2007, 06:15 PM
http://www.bulletproofautomotive.com/items/cuscost185lab.jpg

where exactly this thing goes :) (picture would be nice) or some sort off drawing...

and , yes tig rulz. ;)

Murgatroy
03-16-2007, 07:19 PM
Underneath your seat pan. It mounts to the sway bar and under your floor board.

90CelicaST
03-16-2007, 07:38 PM
Conrad Turbo, long time no see

PhillyDRFT
03-16-2007, 08:24 PM
good to see you back Conrad.

any projected timeline for R&D or estimated costs?

grayscale
03-16-2007, 09:21 PM
Just wanted to plug the other thread we have going about these-
http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?p=279637#post279637

alltracman78
03-16-2007, 09:34 PM
Rear 3 point brace:
Jspeed - $341.25 List Price - $307.12 Sale Price
http://www.bulletproofautomotive.com/items/1247.jpg


One note.
The same brace will NOT fit 184 and 185. Unless this bolts to where the rear seats go.
The 185 has a much shallower trunk area.


Unrelated...this is what I made my GF for Valentines Day. As you can tell I pay very close attention to detail (for scale the base is 1"x1" square tubing about 8 inches long)
http://www.aceengineering.ca/Temp/8.JPG



What, too lazy to do the rest of the national borders?

:D

JK, your work looks good. The welds are nice and close.

I personally can't buy anything at the present moment, but for me it would be the quality, followed by the price.
In that order, assuming the quality part wasn't 5x the others....

Conrad_Turbo
03-16-2007, 09:49 PM
good to see you back Conrad.

any projected timeline for R&D or estimated costs?

Good to see you guys again too! You too 90CelicaST. :D

I have no projected timeline or real costs, just shooting from the hip; each jig for each product would cost around $150-300 each. Lasercut parts would be ordered in a qty of 5-10 sets (depending on initial interest).

Subframe supports I'd design myself after looking under the car, as I haven't spent a lot of time laying under the car on the hoist (Starlet has been hogging the hoist for quite some time). So I have no clue what it'd cost for lasercut parts or materials since the design will probably be quite different than Cusco or Jspeed.

Materials for the braces will depend on the interest since I usually buy full lengths of steel and depending on where I buy it there is a $350 buy in. Fronting the inital cash isn't a problem if there is true interest, time is the bigger enemy...there is only so many hours in a day.

As for the rear brace, the main focus would be for the 185 then. If I can find a donor 184 then will focus on them 2nd. Thanks for the clarification alltracman78.

Ya my hands were blistered pretty bad after doing that sculpture...it's only 1/16" stainless steel filler...but bending it with needle nose pliars without scratching it was a PITA. But she loved it and that's all that matters. :hehe:

Edit: Underbrace goes here...

http://www.aceengineering.ca/Temp/stitchcelica.jpg

alltracman78
03-16-2007, 10:06 PM
Subframe supports I'd design myself after looking under the car, as I haven't spent a lot of time laying under the car on the hoist (Starlet has been hogging the hoist for quite some time). So I have no clue what it'd cost for lasercut parts or materials since the design will probably be quite different than Cusco or Jspeed.
You need to look at a 185. 99% of the front is the same.
But the transfer case, propellor shaft, and the difference in floorpan/front swaybar MIGHT make a difference, depending on how you run stuff.....




Ya my hands were blistered pretty bad after doing that sculpture...it's only 1/16" stainless steel filler...but bending it with needle nose pliars without scratching it was a PITA. But she loved it and that's all that matters. :hehe:
:)

85gtsblackman
03-17-2007, 01:49 AM
conrad's alive..


YAYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Sean
03-17-2007, 02:39 AM
My roommate is from Saskatoon :) :hehe: random...

Quality over price. Would buy one asap :)

Playfortoday
03-17-2007, 05:59 AM
I would want all three, but front and rear first since I have neither and would not want one without the other.:D I would do the lower brace too if it made a difference for me on basically stock struts/springs. If need be, I would still pick it up if it didn't help for later jsut so I didn't miss out on your production run
For me Cost and Quality. Obviously I want high quality for a low price. The bulletproof/cosco prices are insane. Color-wise... polished would be nice for the front and rear braces. As for the underbody brace... is rust proof a color?:hehe: Good to see you back on the ST185 stuff again. I am still mad at you for canceling our dinner though, but making these parts will make it up to me.:D

Conrad_Turbo
03-17-2007, 09:52 PM
Ya I've been swamped with business and tons of life events that was just crazy... Still busy as hell and I doubt my race Starlet will even be ready this year. :eek:

Jay, I know man I wish I could have met up with ya. Loooong days just kicked my ass and it was way busier than the last time I was there. I had a few bigwig Starlet guys to meet up with, that I couldn't meet up with either. I do want to go to Chicago again sometime though. I am not sure the effectiveness of the bottom brace but I will definately take a look.

For the front and rear brace if I do go with aluminum or SS it'd be polished, mild steel then I'd be inclined to go with a gun metal or black. For the undbody brace I am sure it could be sprayed with undercoating and it'd be protected for a loooong time.

I'm off to the shop right now building braces and also coming up with some traction brackets for Starlets. I will take a look at the Celica at what needs to be done. :D


I would want all three, but front and rear first since I have neither and would not want one without the other.:D I would do the lower brace too if it made a difference for me on basically stock struts/springs. If need be, I would still pick it up if it didn't help for later jsut so I didn't miss out on your production run
For me Cost and Quality. Obviously I want high quality for a low price. The bulletproof/cosco prices are insane. Color-wise... polished would be nice for the front and rear braces. As for the underbody brace... is rust proof a color?:hehe: Good to see you back on the ST185 stuff again. I am still mad at you for canceling our dinner though, but making these parts will make it up to me.:D

Keep giving me input guys. :D

Edit: 15min rear strut tower brace sketch and rough analysis, I have a few different designs in mind. I'll go through the iterations and see which one works best. I will take a look at underbody stuff when I get the car on the hoist.

http://www.aceengineering.ca/Temp/test1.jpg

Happy St Patty's day everyone! Drive safe!

Denver_whiteST185
03-18-2007, 01:33 AM
hmmm, grayscale may beat you to this ;)

Looks good, but i would reiterate what sean said, quality over price

As for materials, the under brace would be low slung weight, so steel would be fine. aluminum would be nice for the front strut brace, but to keep cost down, steel should would work as long as its not a 3" soild rods.

I would be in on a "rust proof" underbrace if it allowed a 3" exhaust (the cusco one doesn't) and i you could do in in a 4 bolt pattern like the cusco one.

Conrad_Turbo
03-18-2007, 01:41 AM
hmmm, grayscale may beat you to this ;)

Looks good, but i would reiterate what sean said, quality over price

As for materials, the under brace would be low slung weight, so steel would be fine. aluminum would be nice for the front strut brace, but to keep cost down, steel should would work as long as its not a 3" soild rods.

I don't consider it a race...since there is already two companies producing Celica braces on the market. This thread is just gauging interest, nothing more than that right now.

The Starlet strut tower brace I produce is the same spec tubing as used in rollcages, so it's not aluminum, it comes out to a scant 2lbs. Aluminum has it's place...but I rarely design chassis braces out of aluminum (I've yet to see an aluminum roll cage!). Adding a brace out of steel instead of aluminum will affect the center of gravity of the car as much as if the driver was wearing a helmet or not. :D

Shadowlife25
03-18-2007, 01:50 AM
^^ +1

Denver_whiteST185
03-18-2007, 01:51 AM
The Starlet strut tower brace I produce is the same spec tubing as used in rollcages, so it's not aluminum, it comes out to a scant 2lbs. Aluminum has it's place...but I rarely design chassis braces out of aluminum (I've yet to see an aluminum roll cage!). Adding a brace out of steel instead of aluminum will affect the center of gravity of the car as much as if the driver was wearing a helmet or not. :D

i know and thats why i said "just don't use 3" solid rods" which i don't think anyone with half a brain would use.

As for using aluminum, it would be nice to use it in the front strut brace just because our cars are already front heavy and it would be at higher roll point. It would also be nice if this weighed the same or less than the stock piece since im more into weight reduction than adding weight to an already heavy car.

alltracman78
03-18-2007, 03:01 AM
I would be in on a "rust proof" underbrace if it allowed a 3" exhaust (the cusco one doesn't) and i you could do in in a 4 bolt pattern like the cusco one.

Hmm

I didn't know this.
Interesting....

Denver_whiteST185
03-18-2007, 07:45 AM
Hmm

I didn't know this.
Interesting....

yeah if you search through alltrac.net youll see that simba had to severely dent his 3" exhaust to fit it. Thats why hes building a custom 2.75" exhaust....

you could use oval piping but thats expensive stuff

sloceli
03-18-2007, 08:30 AM
This is what I did for mine. You can really feel the difference.
http://www.celicatech.com/1sloceli/strut.JPG

alltracman78
03-18-2007, 12:30 PM
That is a ST184.
The ST185 already has 2 angled braces, and a higher pan there.
Lemme try to find a pic.

Conrad_Turbo
03-18-2007, 04:30 PM
This is what I did for mine. You can really feel the difference.
http://www.celicatech.com/1sloceli/strut.JPG

Very cool that was one of the iterations I was going to simulate. :D I have 1 other design I was going to test before having the design set in stone.

Looks to be 1x1" square aluminum? I probably have 60-70ft of that stuff in the shop right now.

Hehe I like the beefing up the suspension but yet having 2 baby seats in the back. :D

Denver_whiteST185, thanks for the lead I will take a look on Alltrac.net.

Denver_whiteST185
03-18-2007, 04:39 PM
ill make it easy for you :)

http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=19071&highlight=brace

sloceli
03-18-2007, 05:21 PM
Very cool that was one of the iterations I was going to simulate. :D I have 1 other design I was going to test before having the design set in stone.

Looks to be 1x1" square aluminum? I probably have 60-70ft of that stuff in the shop right now.

Hehe I like the beefing up the suspension but yet having 2 baby seats in the back. :D

You are right, it is 1'' aluminum. I would have rather had the triangle start at the strut towers and go to the center but there is no mounting holes besides the rear seat bracket. Amazingly enough there is no flex, I can sit on it and it still doesn't bend.

You can probably tell from the pic but my welds are just plain ugly. Thats what you get using a mig.

You should have seen the looks when I took my car to the drag strip with the car seats in it.

Conrad_Turbo
03-18-2007, 06:09 PM
ill make it easy for you :)

http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=19071&highlight=brace

Thanks man, already found it right after I made my post. :hehe:


You are right, it is 1'' aluminum. I would have rather had the triangle start at the strut towers and go to the center but there is no mounting holes besides the rear seat bracket. Amazingly enough there is no flex, I can sit on it and it still doesn't bend.

Ya overall I am going to compare that design with that of Jspeed and see which one I can get away with using less material and to be stronger. You don't really need that extra member that is parallel to the member going between the strut towers...but it's short and aluminum so it definately can't hurt. :bigthumbu


You can probably tell from the pic but my welds are just plain ugly. Thats what you get using a mig.

That's what my GF said when she saw the pic. Haha. Although she doesn't know how much of a PITA it is to MIG weld aluminum...I've done it and hated it. TIG is soooo much easier.

I'll find some time tonight to run some iterations of some designs. I have a geneal idea of how I want the rear brace to setup for a single bar, but the additional members I will figure out later. Off to the shop! Got a few orders to put through!

Hope everyone had a great St. Patty's Day. :D

Denver_whiteST185
03-18-2007, 06:20 PM
kinda OT, but i was looking at your website conrad. i think your the only other alltrac ive seen repainted lexus white pearl. you car looks really nice.

nuclearhappines
03-19-2007, 10:07 AM
upper braces from what i read have alot to do with chassis flex... which becomes more evident with stiffer springs as your chassis can become part of your 'spring' ... i read an article by whiteline on autospeed that confirmed this same idea... he said they were investing more and more in what they were calling 'chassis bracing' rather than 'strut bracing' ... because that's what it is technically...

european cars are using alot more lighter and impact transerring materials...because of that he says you need that kind of bracing to help with stiffer suspensions

lower braces: again when i read up on it, the point of this bracing is that it counteracts bushing play/squish.

A good example on my car would be the two inner control arm bushings. The stiffer i make my rear sway bar the more the sway bar will try to draw my control arms into each other... the part that takes up all the force put down by the stiffer sways are these inner bushings... so eventually... it doesn't matter how big a sway bar you put on... the handling won't improve because the bushing is compressing/moving far enough that the sway bar isn't getting any more loaded...and so you are not using it.

so , if you have urethane lower inner bushings you may not need the lower brace... and i you have a massive sway bar then you may need both the upgraded bushings and the brace...

does anyone already offer these bushings for the celicas ? nobody offers neither the bushings, nor the braces or the benzes... it's not a big dea to me .... but some of the C32/C55 owners are track whores that keep complaining about understeer no matter how big (or how many) sway bars they have on the back of the car.

grayscale
03-19-2007, 01:03 PM
Just about finished with it, thought I'd through out a teaser before I go to bed-
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/5/3/3/2/rearbrace.JPG

Fuelish
03-19-2007, 01:15 PM
Hmmmm.....am thinking the rear brace may not be of any use to me (I drive a vert, dunno if it would fit due to design) .... but perhaps the underbody brace ??? Without a doubt, even with the reinforcing ASC did to the body,the verts are nowhere near as stiff as a full bodied Celi :( ... oh, well, guess that's the price one pays for open air motoring ;) )

God, I love celicatech !!!! So much good info and knowledgeable folks here :) !!!!

Playfortoday
03-19-2007, 01:40 PM
Hmm

I didn't know this.
Interesting....


yeah if you search through alltrac.net youll see that simba had to severely dent his 3" exhaust to fit it. Thats why hes building a custom 2.75" exhaust....

you could use oval piping but thats expensive stuff

Thanks for this info. I already have a dent at my front crossmember due to an annoying rattle on my 3" Aussie midpipe. With a few more dent, I will have the equivalent of 3" exhaust. Looks like Conrad is my only hope.;) I have no fear though, since he now owes me big for tour services and missing our dinner.:hehe:

Conrad_Turbo
03-19-2007, 02:14 PM
upper braces from what i read have alot to do with chassis flex... which becomes more evident with stiffer springs as your chassis can become part of your 'spring' ... i read an article by whiteline on autospeed that confirmed this same idea... he said they were investing more and more in what they were calling 'chassis bracing' rather than 'strut bracing' ... because that's what it is technically...

european cars are using alot more lighter and impact transerring materials...because of that he says you need that kind of bracing to help with stiffer suspensions

lower braces: again when i read up on it, the point of this bracing is that it counteracts bushing play/squish.

A good example on my car would be the two inner control arm bushings. The stiffer i make my rear sway bar the more the sway bar will try to draw my control arms into each other... the part that takes up all the force put down by the stiffer sways are these inner bushings... so eventually... it doesn't matter how big a sway bar you put on... the handling won't improve because the bushing is compressing/moving far enough that the sway bar isn't getting any more loaded...and so you are not using it.

so , if you have urethane lower inner bushings you may not need the lower brace... and i you have a massive sway bar then you may need both the upgraded bushings and the brace...

does anyone already offer these bushings for the celicas ? nobody offers neither the bushings, nor the braces or the benzes... it's not a big dea to me .... but some of the C32/C55 owners are track whores that keep complaining about understeer no matter how big (or how many) sway bars they have on the back of the car.

Very true man, the only benefit to making the chassis stiffer will only be noticed if the chassis is flexible to begin with, how sticky the tires are, spring rates and driver skill. Making a car very soild and having a driver not able to notice this...is truely a waste.

As for the underbody brace I am going to check out my local material shop and see if they have some of the shapes I want, then I can keep that in mind when I run through a few iterations.

grayscale, very nice brace man. Kudos. :D

Play don't you worry if there is enough demand I'll build the jigs and start building. You'll like what I have to show. Trust me. :D

I have a ton of orders to make today, but I am going to run through a few iterations and hopefully have my design set in stone. I have a few nifty ideas that will make an install super clean and easy.

celicatrd93
03-19-2007, 02:27 PM
damn all of those are nice, but with those prices only one at a time. this is a hard one,

Playfortoday
03-19-2007, 02:37 PM
:woot:

Denver_whiteST185
03-19-2007, 03:02 PM
Thanks for this info. I already have a dent at my front crossmember due to an annoying rattle on my 3" Aussie midpipe. With a few more dent, I will have the equivalent of 3" exhaust. Looks like Conrad is my only hope.;) I have no fear though, since he now owes me big for tour services and missing our dinner.:hehe:

Maybe conrad would be interested in making a midpipe out of oval pipe that flows the same as three inch :bigthumbu

Actually, when i get the time, theres a local shop that will be doing that for me, but it would still be nice to have the lower brace be able to fit a regular 3" exhaust.

Conrad_Turbo
03-19-2007, 04:34 PM
Maybe conrad would be interested in making a midpipe out of oval pipe that flows the same as three inch :bigthumbu

Actually, when i get the time, theres a local shop that will be doing that for me, but it would still be nice to have the lower brace be able to fit a regular 3" exhaust.

Haha For now we'll keep it to braces...but I'll definately keep that in the design that the brace has to allow for 3" exhaust, unless it seriously compromises the design.

I'll iterate a few designs for a rear brace this morning and see which will work best. :D

Denver_whiteST185 thanks for the comment on the Celi, those pics are actually BEFORE paint. Haha. I have yet to take a photo that shows how beautiful the pearl actually looks like, especially at night under a street lamp...almost looks like an 80's bass fishing boat. :D

Playfortoday
03-19-2007, 04:55 PM
how beautiful the pearl actually looks like, especially at night under a street lamp...almost looks like an 80's bass fishing boat. :D

Haha... a fishing boat as a reference to beauty, eh?

Conrad_Turbo
03-19-2007, 05:29 PM
Haha... a fishing boat as a reference to beauty, eh?

Haha I just had to. :D

Anyone know off hand the spring rates for the rear of the Celica? Or what spring rates are available?

nuclearhappines
03-19-2007, 07:43 PM
Tein Coilovers 448 front / 224 rear
Tein ST-205 springs 218 front / 123 rear

Tein are usually 15% stiffer than stock ... so stock is probably 180/100 or so ... that's pretty soft

Conrad_Turbo
03-20-2007, 12:34 AM
Tein Coilovers 448 front / 224 rear
Tein ST-205 springs 218 front / 123 rear

Tein are usually 15% stiffer than stock ... so stock is probably 180/100 or so ... that's pretty soft

Cool thanks man. :D I am designing the brace for 2 situations:

1. jumping the car :hehe: (compression of both springs)
2. high g-force turns (compression of one side and extension of the opposite side)

Funny enough the brace going between the towers doesn't need to be that big, it's the diagonal braces that take up a lot of the load. So far I have a 6.6lb design, but I have a few things I want to change to see if I can get it any lighter or stronger. I'll let you guys know.

I can begin building a 2pt brace...a nice 2pt brace...as soon as tomorrow BUT if there is real interest then I'll do a 3pt brace. Reason being is because I am not going to build a precise jig to sell a couple braces. Looking at the survey it doesn't look like it's worth building a jig at this moment...

I'll look at the underbody bracing and fab up some endplates tomorrow for the rear strut tower brace and go from there.

Playfortoday
03-20-2007, 01:01 AM
I think the interest will be there when you spec out more details, especially a ballpark price. If you can do that I can send out a mass email and do an announcement and other memebrs can cross post on other sites to get more people interested. With your target market being younger guys, I think price and pictures are the two biggest things to get ironed out. Let me know how I can help.

KoreanJoey
03-20-2007, 02:43 AM
I think the interest will be there when you spec out more details, especially a ballpark price. If you can do that I can send out a mass email and do an announcement and other memebrs can cross post on other sites to get more people interested. With your target market being younger guys, I think price and pictures are the two biggest things to get ironed out. Let me know how I can help.

Exactly, price is important to budget racers like myself. :)

92CelicaST
03-20-2007, 02:51 AM
http://www.bulletproofautomotive.com/items/cuscost185lab.jpg

where exactly this thing goes :) (picture would be nice) or some sort off drawing...

and , yes tig rulz. ;)


well while looking for parts for a Subaru i found one of these its a Arm Bar connects the Arms together.(i think)

Look on Cusco's website you'll see it there

they have it for front and rear
http://www.machiii.net/images/suspension/cusco/lower.JPG

Sean
03-20-2007, 03:03 AM
Conrad, I would buy a 2 point rear brace, and a 3 point front brace today if you made them.

Let me be first :)

Conrad_Turbo
03-20-2007, 04:40 AM
Conrad, I would buy a 2 point rear brace, and a 3 point front brace today if you made them.

Let me be first :)

Check your PM buddy. :D

Denver_whiteST185
03-20-2007, 07:53 AM
can i be first for the underbrace????

KoreanJoey
03-20-2007, 08:02 AM
I'd rock the underbrace for sure (if I could afford it).

Playfortoday
03-21-2007, 01:05 AM
Conrad, when you are ready to go, please start a thread in B&S, or I can move this one there for you.;)

Conrad_Turbo
03-21-2007, 01:14 AM
No probs, I'll keep you in the loop. :D

Conrad_Turbo
03-21-2007, 05:34 PM
Well endplate design (taking actual measurements off the car) is completed and I will quickly fab up some mock up items for the car tonight. The production unit will be lasercut so the quality will be top notch.

The brace looks to be headed towards a single member (2pt) brace or possibly a two member (detachable brace). Everyone wants a polished brace so I am leaning towards stainless steel (even though it's pricey material!).

Question, would you rather have a painted 3pt mild steel brace? Or a single bar stainless steel brace? Both costing roughly the same...

Trance4c
03-21-2007, 05:42 PM
Argh.. why so much interest in an underbody brace?!?!?!

Do the front 3 point first PLEASE!

cms-gt4
03-21-2007, 05:56 PM
You need to bring these to the dragon meet. You might be able to peddle some there. "It will help them enjoy the dragon more" :D

Denver_whiteST185
03-21-2007, 06:57 PM
Personally i would rather have a milled steel or aluminum unpainted three point front brace so i could powdercoat it silver.

Im actually much more interested in a lower brace though again in a milled unpainted steel and would gladly be your test mule for it.

Conrad_Turbo
03-21-2007, 07:28 PM
You need to bring these to the dragon meet. You might be able to peddle some there. "It will help them enjoy the dragon more" :D

:laugh: It's only around 2000 miles away! Thanks for the invite though!


Personally i would rather have a milled steel or aluminum unpainted three point front brace so i could powdercoat it silver.

Im actually much more interested in a lower brace though again in a milled unpainted steel and would gladly be your test mule for it.

I don't need a test mule, everything is measured off a straight and solid Alltrac and modeled and then jig built after that. There should be no need for test fitting, just drop on and go. :D

I've tweaked the end plate design more than you could imagine, I know where the high stress areas are and how to evenly distribute the stress. Key area being the bolt hole in the end plate nearest the main strut tower bar. ;)

Edit: 3.39lb (minus weight of fasteners)

http://www.aceengineering.ca/Temp/ACEENGINEERINGfinaldesign.jpg

End plates are extremely well designed for the Celica mountion location, bar none. There is no excess weight and the stress is distributed away from high stress locations. The end plates will be painted gunmetal grey and the bar will be 304L stainless steel with a #4 polish. Price will be announced when I get the cost for the endplates.

I have something else in the works in terms of the rear brace...it'll drive the price up a bit...but give an option to those who want it.

Shadowlife25
03-21-2007, 11:29 PM
Keep us posted Conrad, I'm looking forward to this.

Playfortoday
03-21-2007, 11:33 PM
Sleepless in Chicago.:drool:

alltracman78
03-22-2007, 01:28 AM
I see you have an Alltrac to measure from, so you have the rear strut tower braces in front of you. No need for my pic, which I finally dug up. :P

For the front tower braces, will they fit with a RC or 205 IC?

Denver_whiteST185
03-22-2007, 01:42 AM
looking very nice...

Conrad_Turbo
03-22-2007, 04:37 AM
I see you have an Alltrac to measure from, so you have the rear strut tower braces in front of you. No need for my pic, which I finally dug up. :P

For the front tower braces, will they fit with a RC or 205 IC?

http://www.aceengineering.ca/Temp/IMG_0781.jpg
Sure do. TIG filler, magnets and string do wonders. :D I am going to finish up the modeling tomorrow or Friday and send the .dxf's for the endplates to get quoted on tomorrow. Then I can layout a price.

As for the front brace, when that comes, I will make it fit the stock 185 intercooler. I am not sure the dimensional differences between the stock air-to-air the RC or the 205 core. I'd assume the RC is very similar to the air-to-air core.

Playfortoday
03-22-2007, 01:20 PM
I have the ARC TMIC. This does not bode well for me.:(

Trance4c
03-22-2007, 01:35 PM
Conrad... thanks for picking up on this, I know we had discussed it many years back, but it will be great to have these products available.

Conrad_Turbo
03-22-2007, 02:11 PM
I have the ARC TMIC. This does not bode well for me.:(

Jay email me some photos of the area around the TB and include measurements from the TB to the top of the intercooler (end nearest the firewall), center of TB to passenger side of the intercooler as well as center of TB to the driver side of the intercooler. I'll see what I can do when the time comes.

Clayton, a few years ago I was ill equipped and didn't even have my house then. :laugh: Now I've pretty much got everything except for a few major purchases (CNC plasma cutting table, small lathe and tubing bender).

I'll get the .dxf for the endplates done today and off to the lasercutting shop...then we wait...usually they come back within a day or two.

ChrisD
03-22-2007, 02:44 PM
soooooooo........think it'll fit a 165?

:D

Conrad_Turbo
03-23-2007, 02:32 PM
Haha I doubt it bud. Although I could always email you a scaled .pdf of the endplates and you could see if the bolt pattern lines up...or see how different it is.

I should be getting pricing on the endplates today...so hold your breath!

Trance4c
03-23-2007, 02:40 PM
Do the rear of the ST185 mounting and the ST18X (ST184 GTS in my case) line up?

That would be the next thing to find out as well we Chris's ST165.

Conrad_Turbo
03-23-2007, 06:52 PM
I can send you a scaled .pdf (or at least I think I can) and you can print it out and see if it matches. I have all the files at home so I cannot access them till after supper sometime...so if I sent it to you, you could let me know ASAP?

Still no word on lasercutting costs...I'm insanely busy at work so I'm just checking my emails and phone messages throughout the day.

Trance4c
03-23-2007, 07:40 PM
I can send you a scaled .pdf (or at least I think I can) and you can print it out and see if it matches. I have all the files at home so I cannot access them till after supper sometime...so if I sent it to you, you could let me know ASAP?

Still no word on lasercutting costs...I'm insanely busy at work so I'm just checking my emails and phone messages throughout the day.


No worries man.. if you send it over, I can print it off at work monday and find out this next week for you.

Conrad_Turbo
03-23-2007, 10:34 PM
Sounds good Clayton I'll get it to you this weekend. :D

The price from the lasercutting shop is in and I've put in the order, here we go boys. :D

http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?p=282104#post282104

b00staholic
03-24-2007, 12:08 AM
Conrad,

Great looking work there.

I would be interested in the following for my 1990 All-Trac.

- 3 point rear strut bar
- 3 point front strut bar
- underbody brace that can fit 3" exhaust

Conrad_Turbo
03-24-2007, 01:13 AM
Conrad,

Great looking work there.

I would be interested in the following for my 1990 All-Trac.

- 3 point rear strut bar
- 3 point front strut bar
- underbody brace that can fit 3" exhaust

No problem man, I'll put it in the queue. Next will be the front strut tower bar and then underbody brace possibly...

Denver_whiteST185
03-26-2007, 12:15 AM
I would really like to see a well designed lower 4 point brace first, considering you got more votes for that in your poll....

Conrad_Turbo
03-26-2007, 01:32 AM
I would really like to see a well designed lower 4 point brace first, considering you got more votes for that in your poll....

I have the material in stock (unless it fails FEA) to do both...but I will model both of them up and do FEA on them. Once the part is modeled then the difficult part is over since all the measurements have been taken. After that then it's just building the parts, which is the easiest part of all. :D

Either way they're going to be both designed and built this spring/summer unless something major happens.

gt lifthback
03-26-2007, 03:07 AM
well i am interested in the underbraces for my celica gt front and rear and this might sound like a dumb question to you but hopefully by the end of this year i will be doing an engine swap. will this braces work with either engine the 3sgte and the 5sfe thank you very much

ScottGT-S
03-26-2007, 03:50 AM
Im intrested in the front tower brace and the under brace fo sho

Conrad_Turbo
03-26-2007, 10:43 PM
well i am interested in the underbraces for my celica gt front and rear and this might sound like a dumb question to you but hopefully by the end of this year i will be doing an engine swap. will this braces work with either engine the 3sgte and the 5sfe thank you very much

I guess the question is, is the front suspension/chassis area the same between a GT and an Alltrac? Anyone know? I don't know as I've only ever worked on my Alltrac.

I will begin to start looking and endplate designs for the front strut tower brace and how to build an effective underbody brace very soon. :D

Oh also I updated the FS post... http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24718

I don't joke around, if I did...I'd probably be building furniture (which I have done in the past :laugh: ).

Trance4c
03-27-2007, 02:41 AM
I guess the question is, is the front suspension/chassis area the same between a GT and an Alltrac? Anyone know?

Yes, they are.. the ST18X is basically the same from the rear of the doors forward. So at the 1/4 panel rear windows back things change. So for all our purposes, yes.. anything in the front is identical.

Look forward to the file Conrad, I'll be sure to get to it this next week. Going to St. Pete' Tampa FL this weekend for the Indy GP :D I'll make sure to get on it asap once I'm back.

ChrisD
03-27-2007, 03:27 PM
I know the strut tower bolt pattern is the same from 185->165, however, I dont know if the point to point distance is the same.

ScottGT-S
03-27-2007, 11:12 PM
st165 stock front tower bars do not fit on st18x's..... I tried :(

grayscale
03-27-2007, 11:15 PM
st165 stock front tower bars do not fit on st18x's..... I tried :(
Is that on the strut tops or on the firewall? Cause I know the firewall bolts have a diff center to center measurement.

Conrad_Turbo
04-02-2007, 07:10 AM
Guess what's coming next? :wiggle:

http://www.aceengineering.ca/Temp/IMG_0871.jpg
http://www.aceengineering.ca/Temp/IMG_0876.jpg

I'm used to having access to 1/4 mil CMM's at my disposal but in the shop I have found other ways to get measurements (enough for CAD design and FEA) with some fishing line, misc car parts, magnets and a tape measure. :D

Clayton your front brace will be coming soon...don't worry. :hehe:

PS Rear braces will begin bending and welding tomorrow as I'll be getting the lasercut end plates then. :D

gt lifthback
04-02-2007, 08:16 PM
thank you guys if thats the case sign me up for the front underbrace.

Conrad_Turbo
04-02-2007, 10:59 PM
thank you guys if thats the case sign me up for the front underbrace.

Once I am complete the design I will finalize the labor and material costs and then come out with a price. Here is the first model drawn up and sent through FEA. :D

http://www.aceengineering.ca/Temp/ACEENGINEERINGprelimunderbodydesign.jpg

The above design doesn't take into exhaust clearance or the main crossmember clearance...but the locations of where the brace is bolted on is spot on. I'll continue the design and FEA work on the underbody brace after the rear braces are built. :D

Playfortoday
04-03-2007, 12:37 AM
Put me down tentatively for the underbody brace too, depending on price of course;) I am going to have to sell a few things to get money to pay you off:hehe:

KoreanJoey
04-03-2007, 07:52 PM
I <3 the underbody brace. Hope to hear a price soon.

Shadowlife25
04-11-2007, 07:29 AM
+1

Conrad_Turbo
04-11-2007, 05:22 PM
The price is TBD since the design isn't even complete...or really started for that matter, I have measurements and a "dumb" CAD model. After this weekend I will be working on the underbody brace doing FEA and checking for clearances. I'll complete the design and then know the shipping dimensions, material and labor costs. Then I can propose a price and anyone interested can PM me for shipping costs to their location. At that point I will begin collecting payment and begin production once there is a minimum order (which will be determined after I calculate the cost for the tooling and jig(s)). So yes there will be some lead time...but then it's the first batch of a new product, so it's to be expected. :D

Here is a comparison between the Cusco and ACE brace (not considering clearances):

http://www.aceengineering.ca/Temp/cuscofos.jpg
http://www.aceengineering.ca/Temp/aceengineeringfos.jpg

This is with 500lbs force on the control arm towards the center of the car (ie: under cornering). The Cusco style sketch is 91% weaker compared to the preliminary ACE sketch, however the complete ACE design will be 3-5lbs heavier...but last I checked roll cages were not built out of aluminum either! :laugh:

There will also be a 165 brace available as well. I will be working on both in parallel since I only have a 2 week window to have access to a donor 165 to fabricate and get exact measurements from.

Conrad_Turbo
04-23-2007, 02:10 AM
Update:

Slowly getting there...

http://www.aceengineering.ca/Temp/IMG_0989.JPG
http://www.aceengineering.ca/Temp/IMG_0991.JPG

The front 1/2 is done, the rear and center section will be done once the FEA is finalized. For being mild steel the first section of brace is very light! The midpipe shown is 2.5" so there looks to be quite a bit of gap, but it's enough clearance for a 3" midpipe.

The brace has the same ground clearance as the exhaust system (midpipe/muffler) so it doesn't sit very low, even for clearing a 3" midpipe.

Shadowlife25
04-23-2007, 08:16 AM
Thanks for the update Conrad. Really looking forward to this!!!!

Conrad_Turbo
05-28-2007, 08:48 PM
I don't like to echo this on 2 forums...but there are some members that don't frequent both. So here is an update: The 3D model is complete and has gone through extensive FEA work and the final design is set in stone. It has been optimized for maximum strength/weight ratio, minimum deflection under load and manufacturability. This brace will allow clearance for a 3" midpipe (provided it's not poorly built) and weighs in a total of 7.0lb.

http://www.aceengineering.ca/Temp/IMG_11132.jpg

Here is the model: http://www.aceengineering.ca/Temp/1020185-02.pdf

And for those who like to see it in the flesh, here is the first proto being mocked up (FYI production units will be built off a jig).

http://www.aceengineering.ca/Temp/IMG_1113sm.jpg

Price will be announced once I have ironed out a few details and also after I have a chance to test drive with the brace on the car, that way I can make sure there is no issues. Also something is in the works in terms the sale of this brace as a donation to Toyota_Todd, for more info see the thread here: http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26309

Shadowlife25
05-28-2007, 08:52 PM
Let us know Conrad, I'll be first in line. (and good on you for trying to help Todd out)

Cavanagh
05-28-2007, 09:10 PM
Wow, VERY cool. Does this only fit ST185s?

Conrad_Turbo
05-29-2007, 05:00 AM
Let us know Conrad, I'll be first in line. (and good on you for trying to help Todd out)

The guy has helped me out in the past when I was perfectly fine, I definately owe him now that he's in rough shape. One has already been "sold" so you'll be 2nd in line. :D

Cavanagh, I believe Clayton mentioned that it would fit without an issue.

Production will begin in 2-3 weeks and the exact price will be set then, but as for ballpark #'s it'll be in the $150-200USD range.

Shadowlife25
05-29-2007, 05:47 AM
Cool, thanks Conrad. :D

KoreanJoey
05-29-2007, 08:40 AM
Sign me up... tentatively... need to make sure I get my trans/flywheel problems sorted out first...

Conrad_Turbo
05-29-2007, 03:59 PM
Sign me up... tentatively... need to make sure I get my trans/flywheel problems sorted out first...

No problem, I will be starting a sign up sheet just so I can get an idea of the demand for the first while. These will all be fabricated in house so I don't need a minimum 1st order like with the strut tower braces (since the endplates needed to get lasercut and to get good pricing I need a decent quantity).

Trance4c
05-29-2007, 04:25 PM
hrmmm.. yummm.. dammit, i need both front upper and lower braces now. Cracp

Conrad_Turbo
06-04-2007, 03:42 PM
Here is an update:

Here is the room for the exhaust (note: exhaust is OEM)
http://www.aceengineering.ca/Temp/IMG_1178.JPG


This is the first brace fully tacked up.
http://www.aceengineering.ca/Temp/IMG_1174.JPG
The brace will be used to build the jig and all future braces will be built off the jig. Also the first few underbody braces will be test fitted on the Celica to ensure no problems. I will also be test driving the Celica with the 1st brace to ensure no clearance issues and that everything fits fine.

The total cost for the brace looks to be $175USD + shipping, however the first brace will be going up for auction in the up and coming weeks and all the cash will go to help out Todd (Toyota_Todd) since he's not doing so well. Then production will begin sometime after the auction. :D

Playfortoday
06-04-2007, 08:53 PM
Wow! Sweet. Can't wait. I really need to hit the lottery.

gt lifthback
06-07-2007, 07:33 AM
Great news!!!! and the brace looks really good

Conrad_Turbo
06-14-2007, 07:01 PM
Just an update:

http://www.aceengineering.ca/images/IMG_1283.jpg

Jig is nearly complete, after that it's more waiting on my metal supplier for material, since they're out of the rectangular tubing. The first brace will go up on EBAY (unless the CelicaTech auction forum is up in time) and all the proceeds will go to Todd. Then production will begin shortly afterwards. :D

KoreanJoey
06-14-2007, 07:59 PM
Let me know when that is.

Conrad_Turbo
07-24-2007, 04:26 PM
Somewhat copied/butchered from Alltrac.net

http://www.aceengineering.ca/Temp/IMG_1940.jpg
http://www.aceengineering.ca/Temp/IMG_1945.jpg
Shots with the brace on the car. FYI I am running a little smaller tire diameter than stock as well (225/45R16).

I've been test driving with one of the jig built braces on the Celica for the past few days with no issues. All the braces will be coated with a very durable black coating, it will be applied to any future braces made. I will start a new thread in the FS forum shortly. Then people can sign up a list and that is the order in which people will get their braces, there will be some delay however due to the extreme heat right now (Saskatoon is apparently one of the hottest spots in Canda right now...) but I will follow that priority list. Instead of doing an auction type of sale for the first brace, the first person on the list will send the funds to Playfortoday's Paypal account and he will cut a check for Toyota_Todd. 100% of the sale of the first brace will go to Todd. I will also be updating 2 lists, one from people who sign up here, and another from people who sign up on Alltrac.net, so if you add yourself and someone on Alltrac.net has already done before you then the Alltrac.net member will get priority. I'm trying to keep this as fair as possible and I have no idea what the initial demand for the brace will be. :lol:

The price will be $175 + shipping. Keep an eye out in the FS forum!

Cavanagh
07-24-2007, 09:38 PM
Cool!

Conrad_Turbo
07-25-2007, 04:46 PM
It's up!

http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?p=29843699#post29843699

smog7
01-07-2008, 03:33 AM
so for those with the brace, how has it held up?

cs363
01-07-2008, 05:29 AM
Conrad - I just received my underbody braces and rear strut tower braces the other week and have just finished fitting mine :) I definitely want a front strut tower brace from you and am ready to pay you as soon as you give me the word.
I like your stuff because it's well thought out, nicely made and above all, functional. I only like name brand stuff if it works, and sadly more often than not many of those name brand braces etc are more show than go!
The underbody brace fitted on my car with a 3" exhaust, though I did have to tweak the back cross bar very slightly to gain clearance, though this was because it coincidentally lined up with the weld that joins the flex section to the rest of the pipe! The extra diameter of the weld and extra metal on the exhaust was more the problem - it would have cleared no problem if it was just a piece of straight 3" tube through there.

Conrad_Turbo
05-27-2008, 07:18 PM
Conrad - I just received my underbody braces and rear strut tower braces the other week and have just finished fitting mine :) I definitely want a front strut tower brace from you and am ready to pay you as soon as you give me the word.
I like your stuff because it's well thought out, nicely made and above all, functional. I only like name brand stuff if it works, and sadly more often than not many of those name brand braces etc are more show than go!
The underbody brace fitted on my car with a 3" exhaust, though I did have to tweak the back cross bar very slightly to gain clearance, though this was because it coincidentally lined up with the weld that joins the flex section to the rest of the pipe! The extra diameter of the weld and extra metal on the exhaust was more the problem - it would have cleared no problem if it was just a piece of straight 3" tube through there.

Wow I wanted it close...but that's really close! It's tough because I cannot control how consistant another mfg. is or how close they locate the exhaust to the underbody. Good to hear your honest review and thank you for the compliments. :D

I will be working on a front brace sometime...I'm just tied up with a ton of other things along with getting married this summer, family and the well deserved honeymoon. :D

The bad news is that the price of future braces will be going up unfortunately due to steel and consumeable costs rising. :(

ciento44
05-27-2008, 11:04 PM
Can anyone say how much this affects the handling and feel of the car?

Underbody brace feedback is what i'm looking for. :)

Denver_whiteST185
05-28-2008, 02:31 AM
when my hubs are back this saturday, i'll be installing my brace. i'll try to give some feed back. if you look on alltrac.net, there are a few reviews of the cusco underbrace, which should give you a feeling on what this one will do.

cs363
05-28-2008, 03:01 AM
Can anyone say how much this affects the handling and feel of the car?

Underbody brace feedback is what i'm looking for. :)

I can't specifically say how much the brace affected handling as with poly suspension bushes & engine mounts, plus Speed Source aluminium cross-member bushes, the ACE rear strut bar, Whyteline rear sway bar and TEIN adjustables all round my car was already stiff and a lot of the work was done at the same time.
However with all of the above the car handles like it's on rails, though surprisingly it's not an uncomfortable ride.
I just went for the brace as it made sense to me given the stock suspension arm mounting set up, there is certainly plenty of room for flex without a bar!
Plus as my car is a bit low, the brace also provides a bit of protection for my exhaust against grounding , lol :)

Hopefully Denver_whiteST185's car is closer to stock so he can give you more definitive feedback :)

KoreanJoey
05-28-2008, 05:35 AM
Jeez how much was shipping to NZ?

gt lifthback
05-28-2008, 07:21 AM
all i have to say its that the car handles so much better, my car has stock suspension i have cusco front and rear strut bars and the underbrace.......to be honest with you before i installed the underbrace i had install the cusco brace and i didnt feel that much of a difference.......after i installed the underbrace the difference is huge if conrad comes out with more products i will buy it no questions ask

ciento44
05-28-2008, 03:42 PM
all i have to say its that the car handles so much better, my car has stock suspension i have cusco front and rear strut bars and the underbrace.......to be honest with you before i installed the underbrace i had install the cusco brace and i didnt feel that much of a difference.......after i installed the underbrace the difference is huge if conrad comes out with more products i will buy it no questions ask

Less body roll? Stiffer ride? Does it "crash" over bumps more?

I have a pretty low car, front and rear strut bracing made by Grayscale, and before i blew my struts, it was pretty damn tight with not much roll.

I would like to minimize that roll, but i'm not sure if i'm too excited about a harsher ride. It's already pretty bad.

Conrad_Turbo
05-28-2008, 04:52 PM
Jeez how much was shipping to NZ?

It's around $100 at the moment...Australia is a lot more for some reason.

ciento44, I can't see it making the ride harsher as the brace only helps locate the front A-arm by minimizing the deflection due to the OEM cantilever front A-arm setup. The brace won't reduce roll, that is dependant on the springs and anti-roll bar being used.

Denver_whiteST185
05-28-2008, 08:13 PM
I can't specifically say how much the brace affected handling as with poly suspension bushes & engine mounts, plus Speed Source aluminium cross-member bushes, the ACE rear strut bar, Whyteline rear sway bar and TEIN adjustables all round my car was already stiff and a lot of the work was done at the same time.
However with all of the above the car handles like it's on rails, though surprisingly it's not an uncomfortable ride.
I just went for the brace as it made sense to me given the stock suspension arm mounting set up, there is certainly plenty of room for flex without a bar!
Plus as my car is a bit low, the brace also provides a bit of protection for my exhaust against grounding , lol :)

Hopefully Denver_whiteST185's car is closer to stock so he can give you more definitive feedback :)

not really. all superpro and new oem spherical bushings, whiteline RSB, Speed source engine mounts, Custom 3 point solid rear sway bar, Mario solid rear differential mount. stock springs and struts though (im just waiting for a good deal on a set of coilovers to come up)

i had the speed source crossmember bushings, and i didn't think they did anything for the car BTW.

Also, Grayscale made front strut braces? ive been looking and looking for a solid front strut brace, hopefully a three point like the Jspeed one

ciento44
05-28-2008, 08:21 PM
not really. all superpro and new oem spherical bushings, whiteline RSB, Speed source engine mounts, Custom 3 point solid rear sway bar, Mario solid rear differential mount. stock springs and struts though (im just waiting for a good deal on a set of coilovers to come up)

i had the speed source crossmember bushings, and i didn't think they did anything for the car BTW.

Also, Grayscale made front strut braces? ive been looking and looking for a solid front strut brace, hopefully a three point like the Jspeed one

I don't know if they were braceS, but i have the one that was on his car. It's a two point that goes on, and retains the stock 3-point as well.

Made a difference, probably one that i'll see more when i finish replacing the broken bits to my suspension.

I bookmarked this thread.... conrad, you'll continue making this as orders come in for a bit? I'll definitely want one of these after i get my strut issue taken care of. :)

Conrad_Turbo
05-28-2008, 10:48 PM
I try to keep a few in stock at all times, however with personal things going crazy this year and doing a lot of contract work, I am building parts as they are ordered. There is some lag, usually a week or two, before I can have a unit completed and ready to ship.

ciento44
05-28-2008, 10:54 PM
I try to keep a few in stock at all times, however with personal things going crazy this year and doing a lot of contract work, I am building parts as they are ordered. There is some lag, usually a week or two, before I can have a unit completed and ready to ship.

Oh heavens NO!! Unacceptable!!

:hehe:

Just playing man, i'll let you know when i'll need one. :)

DeeCee
05-29-2008, 03:57 AM
You should make some 3 point front braces like the J Speed model :)
http://www.turbocelica.nl/images/engine.jpg

Let me know when you have the underbrace ready. I have money waiting and wanting ;)

KoreanJoey
05-29-2008, 04:14 AM
Damnit, no, need 2 point, not allowed to run 3 point in FSP class!

cs363
05-29-2008, 06:18 AM
Damnit, no, need 2 point, not allowed to run 3 point in FSP class!


No...3 point for everyone, but throw in a free hacksaw for Korean Joey :laugh:

cs363
05-29-2008, 06:18 AM
not really. all superpro and new oem spherical bushings, whiteline RSB, Speed source engine mounts, Custom 3 point solid rear sway bar, Mario solid rear differential mount. stock springs and struts though (im just waiting for a good deal on a set of coilovers to come up)

i had the speed source crossmember bushings, and i didn't think they did anything for the car BTW.

Also, Grayscale made front strut braces? ive been looking and looking for a solid front strut brace, hopefully a three point like the Jspeed one

Well....there goes that idea! lol

KoreanJoey
05-29-2008, 07:46 AM
Why does everyone want a 3 point? I mean... you know the firewall is flimsy as all hell right? It isn't going to help with rigidity....

DeeCee
06-02-2008, 12:58 AM
how about building a strut tower brace (to point cos KJ is high maintenance..) with an integrated brake booster as well?

My friend has one on his subaru, and its pretty cool as the strut tower mount and the brake booster are one nice unit :)

Carolina91GT-S
06-02-2008, 01:25 AM
Conrad, do/can you make a crossmember that is an equivelent to the alltrac/GT-four front to back crossmember that the engine mounts are attached to? plenty of people who do the 3S engine swap need one of these and they are not easy to find. Buying form a trusted source would be a great option. it can't be that hard to make one...

Conrad_Turbo
06-02-2008, 04:36 PM
how about building a strut tower brace (to point cos KJ is high maintenance..) with an integrated brake booster as well?

My friend has one on his subaru, and its pretty cool as the strut tower mount and the brake booster are one nice unit :)

I've been asked this in the past as well. When I look at the design I will definately keep it in mind.

Carolina91GT-S, no it wouldn't be that difficut to produce since it's all in one plane. If there is a large enough demand it could be considered to be produced. Anything I build in terms of weldment (such as the underbody brace) come out of a jig, the jig takes quite a bit of time to build and isn't necessarily cheap either. If there is true interest then I have to account for my tooling and fixturing costs to build the product.

Carolina91GT-S
06-02-2008, 05:01 PM
I don't know what quantity would your minimum demand level...for example though in the "list of swaps:add yourself" thread about 88 people have added themselves in the last 4 years or so So that is average 22 per year of people that potentially could of used one and had added themselves to that list, there are others that haven't been added to that list, I'm sure. Not all of them were adding 3SGTE's to a 5th gen so all of those #'s don't count...but you get the idea. The going rate out there is between $50-$75 shipped for one of these used ones,at least that I have seen. I'm sure if yours was better in any way people would be interested...anyway, just something to think about.

Conrad_Turbo
06-03-2008, 04:21 PM
I don't know what quantity would your minimum demand level...for example though in the "list of swaps:add yourself" thread about 88 people have added themselves in the last 4 years or so So that is average 22 per year of people that potentially could of used one and had added themselves to that list, there are others that haven't been added to that list, I'm sure. Not all of them were adding 3SGTE's to a 5th gen so all of those #'s don't count...but you get the idea. The going rate out there is between $50-$75 shipped for one of these used ones,at least that I have seen. I'm sure if yours was better in any way people would be interested...anyway, just something to think about.

It'd be hard pressed to make something that cheap for 22 units/yr. :(

Denver_whiteST185
06-03-2008, 06:24 PM
joey, you can buy a whiteline brace or a cusco one if you want a two point. there are plenty of two point braces out there. there is only one three point. As ive said before conrad, im compleatly in for a 3-point whenever you make yours

actually, if you make a front to rear crossmember brace that was significantly lighter, you'd probably have a bit of interested on alltrac.net, but i think that would be pointless unless you shaved off a good amount of weight (its pretty heavy, so you have some room to work with)

Trance4c
02-05-2009, 03:22 PM
Denver - I've been bumping Conrads thread in the sale forum for the 3 point front, his workmanship is beyond excellent, so I'm holding out for Conrads.

http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?p=29991544

Bump it again so we can let him know there is more interest :bigthumbu

Colossus20v
02-05-2009, 07:55 PM
I think I've been waiting for Conrads front strut bar since C-Net days. I wish he wasnt so busy. :(

Trance4c
03-31-2009, 02:05 PM
I hope to have some information in the next few months, he is busy and he works with some big clients which is all good, I can't blame him.

BUT, I am trying to bug him to get it moving :D

Night_Wolf
05-11-2010, 05:20 PM
Would these things work with an AT180?

pinoyGT4
05-13-2010, 12:06 PM
oh man.. i want the front 5 pt brace and the rear also..

any idea how much it'd cost to ship here in the Philippines? :D

Grot
07-12-2010, 03:58 AM
2 year old thread....

gt4tified
07-12-2010, 07:42 PM
Yeah, Conrad is too busy to be on the forums much. I have had success in communicating with him via email though.

celica9303
07-13-2010, 08:38 AM
holy thread reviviAL......