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93trdGT-S
03-06-2007, 04:14 AM
okay... i am the proud owner of not just 1 but to celicas....

i drive a 1993 gt-s auto... with only a few things done to it... exhaust and intake...

its my baby

my other one is a 1992 gt...

its my project...

but i need ideas... the motor currently doesnt run(5s-fe 2.2 16v) it basically just needs a tune up and a new distributor....

but i want something better... and i was thinkin a 4age... cuz twin cam is better and there are more parts readily available for that motor...

the car is also an automatic but i am wanting to swap in a manual tranny...

how hard would this be... for the motor swap and tranny swap...

any other ideas will be taken into consideration...

Hiko
03-06-2007, 04:21 AM
4age is not worth it. 3sgte all the way. There is ton's of info on it in the forced induction forum.

Good luck!

93trdGT-S
03-06-2007, 04:28 AM
but u have to remember... im an 18 year old who works part time at a grocery store...

i was also thinkin the 4agze which is not turboed but super charged...

hmmm....

Cavanagh
03-06-2007, 04:55 AM
IF your going to drop a 4A(anything) put it in a ST. It directly mounts up. A 3sgte will directly mount up to your GT/GTS w/o modification. And BTW the 5SFE in your car now is a DOHC, not SOHC. ;)

Hiko
03-06-2007, 04:59 AM
but u have to remember... im an 18 year old who works part time at a grocery store...

i was also thinkin the 4agze which is not turboed but super charged...

hmmm....

Well, unless you're an 18 year old who works part time at a grocery store and has welding skills, that A series block isn't going to be fun putting into your gt.

If you really need to stick to a budget, a 3sge (not turbo), would be a good compromise, and they don't cost nearly as much as a 3sgte.

93trdGT-S
03-06-2007, 04:59 AM
ummm then how come it says single cam... >>>???<<<

Hiko
03-06-2007, 05:02 AM
ummm then how come it says single cam... >>>???<<<

Where? The valve cover should say DOHC. It's DOHC, but can be argued to be single because there is only one belt driven cam, the exhaust is run off a slave gear.

donteatbugs
03-06-2007, 06:16 AM
my 5sfe was a dohc. now on the other hand my 2-se is a single cam. but my 3sgte makes twice the power and 2/3 the gas mileage and it is dohc.

93trdGT-S
03-06-2007, 09:52 PM
wait now im confused... everyone ive talk to says there sohc...

but yall are tellin me there dohc...

and yes hiko... i do have welding skills... i build my own trailers and hitch hauls etc. etc.

now i understand the 3sge motor idea... and i said i am willing to listen to all ideas given...

wat about the 7th gen celica motors... wat would the difficulty level be on installing one of them

Berg
03-06-2007, 11:00 PM
The engine codes will tell you how the cams are set up. If you look at the letters after the dash (eg FE in 5S-FE) you can figure out how things are set up. If there is an E, that simply means Electronic fuel injection. If there is a G, that means that it is a wide angle (geared a little more towards performance) head. The G heads feature true dual overhead cams. Each cam has its own pulley being spun by the timing belt. If there is an F, that means that it is a narrow angle head (geared more towards Fuel economy). Only one cam has a pulley being spun by the timing belt. The other cam is a "slave cam". This one is spun by a gear from the "master cam". If there is no G or F, then the engine is a single came.

A couple of other meanings: T is for turbo (think 3S-GTE), and Z is for supercharger (think 4A-GZE).

I hope this helps your confusion.

Cheers,
Berg

93trdGT-S
03-07-2007, 12:38 AM
AMAZING...

wow that helped alot... now i actually understand...

so if i dont swap motors how can i find aftermarket performance products for this motor...

andy
03-07-2007, 02:21 AM
ebay :)

Cavanagh
03-07-2007, 03:06 AM
AMAZING...

wow that helped alot... now i actually understand...

so if i dont swap motors how can i find aftermarket performance products for this motor...
In All Honesty, dont expect much gain out of upgrading a 5sfe. You can turbo it, but it would be well worth it and better to just by then swap in a 3sgte or 3sge.

grayscale
03-07-2007, 03:46 AM
Could...you...please...stop...breaking...up...your ...thoughts...like...this...It makes it very difficult for us to read and is kinda useless. Thanks:) Also, there is now a second person here who is swapping in a 6cyl 1mzfe engine(one is already done), and after looking around a bit, these engines are readily available and for considerably cheaper than most 3sgte/3sge swaps, so look into that too if you are interested.

Cavanagh
03-07-2007, 04:06 AM
Ya i hear they do well for Autocross too.

Hiko
03-07-2007, 04:21 AM
In All Honesty, dont expect much gain out of upgrading a 5sfe. You can turbo it, but it would be well worth it and better to just by then swap in a 3sgte or 3sge.

Decent gains have been seen with the 5sfe. Nothing spectacular, but decent. The best options for modifying seem to be SAFC and a shaved head. To get an idea what these do for you, check this (http://www.mr2ownersclub.com/mr2records/dyno1.htm) out.


swapping in a 6cyl 1mzfe engine(one is already done), and after looking around a bit, these engines are readily available and for considerably cheaper than most 3sgte/3sge swaps, so look into that too if you are interested.

That is something I hadn't thought to mention, and it is viable if you have good welding/fabricating skills (like it seems that you do). However, after a quick search on ebay, they do seem to be a bit more expensive than 3sge's, and I'd bet they'd be a bit more to install as well. Just something to think about.
Still, a good swap to look into.

partyball
03-07-2007, 04:31 AM
Id say swap in a 3sge. I was impressed by how much faster my friends 4th gen with the 3s is then my 5th gen with the 5s.

93trdGT-S
03-08-2007, 01:30 AM
okay sorry grayscale i'll quit doin this....

yea i thought about a v6 swap out of a camry or something, but i still would like to know about the 7th gen motor.

what is the displacement for them, arent they 1.8L.

i would like to get one so i could have vvt-i. chyeah that would be the shit son

Cavanagh
03-08-2007, 01:49 AM
To my knowledge, it would require a good amount of Fabrication, espically to make the mounts work.

Berg
03-08-2007, 07:05 PM
The 3S-GE and 3S-GTE will both swap in fairly easily. I have found that aftermarket support for the 3S-GE is somewhat lacking (at least in North America), making the 3S-GTE a little better for future upgrades. There have been a couple of people that I have read about that have taken the head of a 3S-GE and bolted it onto a 5S-FE to make a 5S-GE. A little machining is required. I believe that one of the people who did this is on this sight so if you search you will probably find it.

It all depends what you want to do. If you want to stay NA, go for the 3S-GE or build a 5S-GE, or go with the v6 (lot more work). If you want to go for forced induction then the 3S-GTE is the way to go. There is much aftermarked support and many write ups on swapping, getting it running and troubleshooting this engine.

Cheers,
Berg

T-spoon
03-08-2007, 10:28 PM
I wouldn't do a 7th gen motor, honestly. The 1zz wouldn't be worth the time at all, it has less power than the 5s in terms of getting the weight moving. It gives you more power in high RPMs, but for the work involved that's a cruddy tradeoff considering the anemic torque. The 2zz would be an upgrade, but only a practical swap into a car that originally had a 1zz. It'd be as much work as the 1mz to put in, likely cost more, and have less on-demand power.

Sean
03-08-2007, 10:38 PM
I think you should just wait a bit until money is not such an issue. Though, your one step ahead of me when I was your age, as this is still my only car.

The cheapest, best performance, least to worry about bang for your buck, would be a stock 225hp/225tq 3sgte from a 2nd gen, mated to a mr2 transmission. It could all be done for under 2 grand with the right set of eyes. Dont modify your 5s.

Berg
03-08-2007, 10:44 PM
Switching to a manual transmission is fairly straightforward IF you have all the parts. My experience is with the fourth gen so it may differ a little.

You need a transmission that will fit the engine, obviously. Some people say that the MR2 transmission works better with higher power engines and some swear by V6 Camry transmissions. I'm not going to argue for either, though the MR2 tranny would require modifications to the shifter linkage. As well as the tranny you will need a flywheel and clutch that will fit both engine and tranny. The shifter would need to be installed as well. As far as I know all the mounts are the same so you could grab one from the local wreckers. You will need the shifter cables with C-clips and the plate which they come through mounted to the firewall. I had to drop the steering rack to get this through. The brake pedal needs to be replaced with the smaller manual tranny one to make room for the clutch pedal. It is likely that the mounting holes for the clutch pedal assembly are there and ready to use and plugged with a rubber plug. If not, it should at least have the shapes of the the parts need to be removed making it easy to cut out. As Celicas have hydraulic clutch systems it is fairly easy to get running, just fill bleed and drive. Spend a little time at wreckers/looking at pics of how the clutch system is set up to see how it all goes together, then compare to what you have in your car.

Honnestly the hardest part for me was getting the tranny and engine to mate. Took me an hour to get em to bolt together (and yes, I did use a clutch allignment tool).

Hope this answers one of your original questions.

Cheers,
Berg

alltracman78
03-09-2007, 03:12 AM
The engine codes will tell you how the cams are set up. If you look at the letters after the dash (eg FE in 5S-FE) you can figure out how things are set up. If there is an E, that simply means Electronic fuel injection. If there is a G, that means that it is a wide angle (geared a little more towards performance) head. The G heads feature true dual overhead cams. Each cam has its own pulley being spun by the timing belt. If there is an F, that means that it is a narrow angle head (geared more towards Fuel economy). Only one cam has a pulley being spun by the timing belt. The other cam is a "slave cam". This one is spun by a gear from the "master cam". If there is no G or F, then the engine is a single came.

A couple of other meanings: T is for turbo (think 3S-GTE), and Z is for supercharger (think 4A-GZE).

I hope this helps your confusion.

Cheers,
Berg

Close.
Two things.
1-FE does have narrow angle valves. It does help with fuel economy, but the actual reason is because it improves low RPM torque. The air and fuel mix better at low RPMs with a FE head. The GE heads flow better at higher RPMs.
Basically what you said, I just wanted to clarify.

2-Not all FE heads have a slaved cam. All VVTi heads have true DOHC separate camshafts. 1/2AZFE, 1ZZFE, 1/2GRFE all have separate gears for intake and exhaust camshafts. They are all chain driven though. As far as I know, all belt driven FE engines are slaved.
I believe there are 2 main reasons. One is lower maintenance costs [don't have to change a chain every 60 or 90k], and more importantly I don't think they trusted a belt with VVTi.

Berg
03-09-2007, 07:12 AM
I stand corrected.

Cheers,
Berg

MuscleOwnzRice
03-09-2007, 05:15 PM
if your running a turbo an automatic is better, your engine is under constant load and never loses the psi from the boost build up. Eliminates lag and helps the car out alot. Still with a auto built up