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92CelicaST
02-01-2007, 01:04 AM
Well first im new to Celicas and the site. But im wondering what all i can do my a 1992 ST 5 speed, from what iv herd basically nothing that good. i have some ideas but need help finding sites or places to buy them from. Also is the a Club based in Western N.C.?

Heres a list of upgrades i would like if you know please help.

Cold air intake
Intake manifold
Camshaft
Roller Rockers
Stronger Valve Springs
Turbo or Supercharger
Lowering springs about a 1.5" drop
High performance Clutch
bodykit
full exhaust, high flow Cat., muffler, and Header
MSD wires and coils or distrubuter dont know what have looked
Front and Rear Strut tower bar/brace

thats all i can think of.

And a Few questions.
What Type of engine is in a ST?
How much power and torque does a ST engine have?
With all the upgrades listed above about how much power do you think it will have?

and if you can think of any other thing that would be of help please post

sorry for all the newbie questions
Thanks

ciento44
02-01-2007, 02:05 AM
First off, welcome. :)

Second... the ST with a good suspension will handle extremely well. Check out the suspension forum for ideas. I'm a noob on the subject, but i'm sure that there are people here that will be able to tell you exactly what you should get, like they did for me. :)

Now..... power. You've got a couple options. 4afe (which is the engin that you have) is weaksauce. Doesn't respond too well to bolt ons, which is mainly what you have listed here.

Sooo... you can turbo, which will make it highly entertaining, as well as mildly quick, or you can swap.

4age large port
4age 20v (silvertop or blacktop)
4agze (supercharged, will require somewhat of a bitch in terms of wiring.)

I believe the 4afe stock puts out something like 115hp to the crank. With the bolt ons that you have listed, it might put triple digits to the wheels, if you're lucky. :P

Do some looking around in the forced induction forum if you want to turbo, or hopefully 91celicaST will reply to your thread, he's pretty knowledgeable about turbo setups on these engines. :)

burnyd
02-01-2007, 02:10 AM
And a Few questions.
What Type of engine is in a ST?

its a sohc 4afe its a pretty much a ecnonmy motor.. not really made to make power on a f head.. there awesome engines to daily drive great gas mileage and run foreve...

How much power and torque does a ST engine have?

115hp. Not much torque...


With all the upgrades listed above about how much power do you think it will have?

they only real way to make power is a motor swap... theres so much to explain if you want to read the stickies on forced induction... but the popular swaps are..
1.)4agze.. supercharged mr2 motor.
2.)4ag motor... can get this in many flavors..
3.)3sgte/3sge.. most common alltrac/mr2 motor.


and welcome to ctech!

TheNefariousOne
02-01-2007, 02:17 AM
Where did you guys hear 115 hp? As far as I know it's 103 hp.

ciento44
02-01-2007, 02:30 AM
^I'm rich, bitch!!!

Oh, and it's DOHC. :P

91 celica st
02-01-2007, 02:51 AM
its a sohc 4afe its a pretty much a ecnonmy motor.. not really made to make power on a f head.. there awesome engines to daily drive great gas mileage and run foreve...


115hp. Not much torque...



they only real way to make power is a motor swap... theres so much to explain if you want to read the stickies on forced induction... but the popular swaps are..
1.)4agze.. supercharged mr2 motor.
2.)4ag motor... can get this in many flavors..
3.)3sgte/3sge.. most common alltrac/mr2 motor.


and welcome to ctech!

its not sohc its dohc

and its 103 hp (102 california)

92CelicaST
02-01-2007, 02:56 AM
so its a DOHC 1.6L 4AFE making around 103-115HP ok that will help
umm... what cars are the 3sgte engines in. alltrac and mr2? not sure but any certain year models for those?


EDIT:

77 kW @ 6000 rpm 138 Nm @ 3200 rpm

dont know the conversion to Hp and Tq but thats what it has

Edit:

did the conversions 103hp and 101tq

91 celica st
02-01-2007, 03:28 AM
so its a DOHC 1.6L 4AFE making around 103-115HP ok that will help
umm... what cars are the 3sgte engines in. alltrac and mr2? not sure but any certain year models for those?


EDIT:

77 kW @ 6000 rpm 138 Nm @ 3200 rpm

dont know the conversion to Hp and Tq but thats what it has

Edit:

did the conversions 103hp and 101tq

it dosent make any more then 103 hp....never has

88-93 alltrac in world
94-98 alltrac the rest the world
91-95 mr2 turbo

92CelicaST
02-01-2007, 03:00 PM
Ok and the 4AGE comes in corollas right?

EDIT:

Ok from my undersatnding the only difference of the 4afe and 4age is valves which is in your heads so could i just take 4age heads and put them on a 4afe block? to make a 4age in simple terms

KoreanJoey
02-01-2007, 06:46 PM
Different blocks different pistons... if you're going to do the 4AGE swap do the whole thing.

91 celica st
02-01-2007, 09:42 PM
Ok and the 4AGE comes in corollas right?

EDIT:

Ok from my undersatnding the only difference of the 4afe and 4age is valves which is in your heads so could i just take 4age heads and put them on a 4afe block? to make a 4age in simple terms
thres no point in ever doing a head swap from a g head to an origianl F block. (unless your doing 7agte)

the heads are complelty diffrent
the blocks of (most) 4ages are pretty diffrent as well. stronger rods. better oil passagways. diffrent pistons (compression) blah blah blah

use the "search" button

CollapsedNut
02-01-2007, 10:16 PM
Man I know you. My celi is also an ST and unless I swap for a 3s ive figured, like many other people to just forget about it. Its not worth it to add to the st motor. IF you wanna get great MPG then throw on a cai and go. 4age swaps dont require alot of extra work from just putting in a new 4afe as I found. Theres afew people who have turbo charged there st's with preaty nice results, but you still have that eco 4afe and your not gonna hold much above 200hp and you have to make sure you do everything right. If you want fast do what ima do in 2 months, sell that st and use it for a down payment on a real car. Youll end up better off

celicatrd93
02-01-2007, 11:23 PM
my st has a great suspension set up and it handles like a champ. i think coupe celicas look pretty nice if you know how to fix the body up thats my opinion, i have basic upgrades like cold air intake,headers, cat back exhuast, wires, fully built factory specs like new piston rings and all new gaskets, it does not run that bad, but i wish i spent the money into a swap. the f stands for fuel economic as 4afe so its not a perfomance motor. for daily driver it is. i am saving my money for a 4age 20v. thats why i went for more show then go with the st. but now i am going for speed. i think i don't know but the 92-93 4afe's are more hp i think.

92CelicaST
02-02-2007, 12:39 AM
Yea im having a hard time finding performance parts so im gonna clean it up make it look sexy and make it handle like a race car. Performance wise ill do typlcle little things like full exhaust and CAI and if i can find it a Cam or Rockers

So... Wheres a good site to find Suppension mods like Springs, Struts, Shocks, Strut tower brace for front and rear, and Sway bars.

CandianCelicaGT
02-02-2007, 01:18 AM
3sgte will NOT go into the st without some major issues, it's bad enough going into the GT/-S.

ST's mounts are way off and customization is necessary

Dan3312
02-02-2007, 02:09 AM
.... but if you go to the junkyard you can cut the bracket off of a GT or GT-S and remove the other brake from the ST and weld in the new one. Oh or just get a front clip and use the bracket from that (saves you from going and searching) but there is a very nice build of an ST in the Forced Induction part of this forum he will point out that he also needed to change a tranny mount.

VikingJZ
02-02-2007, 03:14 AM
It's not hard at all to do a swap into an ST184 chassis.

Wiring, yes, if you have no prior wiring experience.

For simply mounting the engine, it bolts DIRECTLY into the car.

celicatrd93
02-02-2007, 03:35 AM
ground control coilovers are about the only company that makes coilovers for 5th gen celica they are pricey about 350-375 dollars if you wait you can find on sale ones, then the best strut for me which i have on the vehicle is the new monroe sensa-strut awesome traction no joke, the rear handles great i never lost control over the car. the run about 127 for the rear and 91 for the front, then i went to the junk yard and got a factory strut bar for a gts and it bolted right in, when bolting it in your frame there is already holes predrilled just remove the the black plastic piece. it will cost you 500-550 for parts, i had them installed for 175, its almost alot for a st but it is worth it. i have a full bodykit molded and lowered with 225/45/17 i was hitting pot holes deep as hell i never had a problem not one time it touch the car lowered. i have pics of car under interior/exterior modifications its the 93 celica fully molded pearl white let me know what you think of it.

mar_phi6
02-02-2007, 03:51 AM
I thought the strut bar from the gt /gts just bolts right in and done. and isnt the strutbar cheap at the junkyard?

Hookecho
02-02-2007, 04:39 AM
[QUOTE=92CelicaST]

Heres a list of upgrades i would like if you know please help.

Cold air intake
Intake manifold
Camshaft
Roller Rockers
Stronger Valve Springs
Turbo or Supercharger
Lowering springs about a 1.5" drop
High performance Clutch
bodykit
full exhaust, high flow Cat., muffler, and Header
MSD wires and coils or distrubuter dont know what have looked
Front and Rear Strut tower bar/brace


i would do away with your idea of roller rockers on the 4afe. and the valve springs won't be necessary unless you have agressive cams.

Rix86
02-02-2007, 04:46 AM
Wow.
there is somuch wrong info in the thread, i don't even know where to start.












So I just won't.

celicatrd93
02-02-2007, 05:33 AM
yeah the strut bar bolts right in with no problem. and yeah it is cheap i bought one for 10 dollars at a local junk yard.

92CelicaST
02-02-2007, 01:39 PM
instead of a 3SGTE can i swap a 2ZZ-FE into my Celica?

Cavanagh
02-02-2007, 02:53 PM
Wow.
there is somuch wrong info in the thread, i don't even know where to start.












So I just won't.


Yea, but i guess i will try to correct some stuff.
First off, it's a 2zzge engine that to my knowledge wont fit/ never has been perform.
4AGE Will bolt up, BUT the wiring would be a nightmare.
3SGTE does require new mounts.
And heres a helpful link
http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20471&highlight=4AFE
Direct response from that link...


"Ok, your correct about your engine, it is a 4A-FE 1.6L 16Valve engine with small ports and heads which is what the F is in it. If you did not know, you only have 103 horsepower and with guessing its got some miles on it, its prolly doing 80ish HP to the wheels. Now turboing it will prolly get you around 140-160ish...With the money it takes to do all that, you might as well consider getting Engine swapping a 3SGTE or a 4AGE.

3SGTE- The 3SGTE will not directly drop in your current engine bay. Since it has a S, it can only drop in w/o modification in gt/gts since they have 5SFE engines. Its turbo charged and has 200 horsepower and comes orginally in MR2 Turbos (91-95) and ST185 All-trac/GT4(2nd gen)(1990-1993)

Still with me?


4AGE- They are just about the same as our 4AFEs, except it has bigger, better ports. It is also a 1.6L It will also directly bolt up to CELICA ST AKA.....ours. It has 145 Horsepower and has a high compression ratio. I personally recomened the 20Valve 4AGE silvertop. ITs a light, high revving engine and is fun. (Comes from Toyota ae86s,levins,aw11 mr2s and i few others im forgetting.)If you have move questions on 20v 4age and what there like, talk to Colossus20v and for the 3sgte, jsut about anyone lol.

uh.....Turboing a 4afe In my honest opinon is a waste of money...it will not get results like a 4age/3sgte will. Also considering your engine prolly has high miles on it. IF YOU MUST Insist on turobing, talk to Snafu, hes rarley on anymore, but hes done it.

Good luck on your desicion....PS heres a good link on the stuff when i asked the same question as you when i was new. http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15236

Feel free to ask any questions you are still unsure about...whew, now i gotta go rest my fingers."

2kSnakEater
02-02-2007, 03:06 PM
please for the love of Ctech dont flame me on this next question.

Why do you ST owners insist on modding a car that doesnt make even triple digits to the ground? is it really that hard to sell it and get a faster GT/GTS? if your talking about body rigidity then why not go for the GT coupe? its the same car but with the 5sfe that can eventualy get the 3sgte and the 3sgte is by far the best engine the Celica can ever get with the most potential to make the most power reliable.

one guy posted on here that he turboed his stock ST and it made a Woping 190hp, WTF is the point if all your going to make is 190hp? dammit if the stock 3sgte makes that from the factory!

Remember, Dont be the guy who says he cant afford a $5000 All-Trac but has spent $6000 on his ST.

Cavanagh
02-02-2007, 04:36 PM
Some people have to use what they have. What would be the difference in a swapped 3sgte st compared to a swapped gt/gts? all models are putting out the same numbers....I would never turbo it IMHO. the only thing i would do is swap it, or DD it

NDMstang65
02-02-2007, 05:03 PM
Eh i've got 3 grand in the ST start to finish,including the car and all of the audio.

Anybody can swap a gt or a gt-s...there's simply not many ST's out there that are done RIGHT with the 3sgte swap.

I wanted to build a little pocket rocket 90's import car, so i did.

Also a lot of people buy these wonderful turbo "kits" and spend tons of money to bolt on their n/a engine and run ~6-8lbs of boost and not get much out of it simply because they'll scatter the internals with any more boost...we've had thoughts of slapping a turbo on a lawn mower to prove the point that technically anything can be turbo'd, a lot of the factory n/a engines just are not worth fooling with forced induction though.

If you are considering doing a swap on the ST definitely check out my build thread, it has all of the right information and it is pretty close to step by step as far as the pictures go.

90CelicaST
02-02-2007, 06:28 PM
please for the love of Ctech dont flame me on this next question.

Why do you ST owners insist on modding a car that doesnt make even triple digits to the ground?
GT/GTS barely make triple digits to the ground if I remember correct, I may be wrong, but your right, modding the 4afe is dumb

is it really that hard to sell it and get a faster GT/GTS?
What does it matter if we start off with the GT/GTS if we're going to swap it anyway? STs are cheap

if your talking about body rigidity then why not go for the GT coupe?
Why? It's still going to weigh the same and be as rigid as the GT once we're done

its the same car but with the 5sfe that can eventualy get the 3sgte
Read NDMStang's thread, and talk to Grumpy and many others that have 3SGTE swaps in their STs

and the 3sgte is by far the best engine the Celica can ever get with the most potential to make the most power reliable.
That's why we are swapping it into our STs


Anybody can swap a gt or a gt-s...there's simply not many ST's out there that are done RIGHT with the 3sgte swap.
They may have not done it RIGHT in your eyes, but you aren't exactly doing everything that should be done either. EX:3rd ECU plug

NDMstang65
02-02-2007, 07:41 PM
i'm talking using the wrong cross members/wedging stuff in and using the wrong mounts etc.

if the 3rd ecu plug isn't needed for anything more then a check engine light, if all systems on the car are monitored...what's the point in having an idiot light come on? :)

Keoni has been running his for quite a while without the 3rd plug... :wedge:

celicatrd93
02-02-2007, 07:59 PM
fixing up a st is not dumb, i wanted a gt/gts/or all trac first i did not have the money, then i could not find one, eventually i really needed a car i found a 1993 st with a bad head gasket with only 96k miles for only only 900, i was not going to act cocky and say i don't want a st, i really don't want one , there is always options on upgrading, also some people don't like hatch, i like the coupe. the money i spent into my 93 st is not a waist i can always throw a 4age 20v or other options. now fixing a 4afe motor is kinda waste of money. i threw some basic bolt-ons but no more, my plan was to finish the outside,inside, then the motor, i was going to the motor last. fixing a st is not waste. it is still a celica. there is endless options to do to it. its all up to the owners, and who care if people spend money into there celica st, its there car and there money, al least they are spending money into there st. of course i would love a 3sgte, but then i would spend a boat load of money in that motor plus there is alot of 3sgte, i want to go with a 4age 20v nice clean looking swap also i want the car to have a nice eye appeal, i do not want to spend 5000 dollars on the motor and the car looks like shit. celica is a celica just different models. in the end we all have the same cars with different styles. of course all trac is the godfather but maybe some of us can not afford it or find one.

91 celica st
02-02-2007, 08:42 PM
WOW ALOT of retards/misinformation in this thread

contrary to popular belif the ST platform (UNIBODY not chassis btw) is by FAR the best platform to go with due to its lightweight

yes the 4afe may not put down triple digits....but when it only has to make 2/3 of the power a 5sfe/3sgte has to make to be just as fast...who cares about numbers? look at the elise. 190 CRANK hp and at 1900 pounds it runs 13's. my st weighs in at a whopping 2300 pounds...with me in it...with that i would only need 230 CRANK hp(200WHP) to run a 13. i.e. what i will probaly be running on pump gas. as opposed to all the swapped 3sgte's out there only hitting low 14's

i dont know who would spend $6000 on an st to be slower than a 3s-gte. if you look at purchase+parts=speed the st/4afe combo wins

gt/s $3000 + 3sgte front clip and install=$2500 total=$4500 if you do it yourself and yoru runnning mid 14's
st $1500 + turbo setup= $1500 total=$3000 if you do it yourself and your running mid 14's

hmmm i wonder what im going to choose. granted the 3sgte has more potnetial...but all i have to do is get a 4agze block ($750) put a set of forged pistons in it ($600) and get a metal HG and put it on my F head ($100) and now i can boost to 15+PSI and be running 12-13 second 1/4 mile and still outhandle a swapped gt/s

sorry if theres a general stigma of "modding the 4afe is dumb" yea that would be true if it was in a heavy ass shell like the gt-s (2800) as opposed to the light shell of the st (2500). but ill take a st body over a gt-s body any day with a swap/turbo or whatever

and btw who cares if the st dosent put down triple digits stock. your an idiot and should stop modding cars if thats all you care about. i had a 3-cyl geo metro that put down less power in all 3 cyl to 1 of your 8 cyl 2ksnakeater yet after it was done being modded it put down more power than all 8 of yours.

you kmnow what i dont get. why poeple mod the 3sgte. god why dont they just swap in a 2jz cuz its so much better engine. seriously why wast the money on it when you could just spend another $3000 and swap in the 2jz...GOD :givafuck:

Murgatroy
05-17-2007, 12:27 PM
:stupid:

This thread is full of a lot of misinformation.

I will try to answer a few points.

With an AT180 you have a different chassis than the ST184. This is essentially a different crossmember and motormount. Depending on pre and post facelift the suspension has some difference as well.

An ST comes only as a coupe. It has few options. This can only be stressed so many times. A Belvedere was Mopar's lightest car. It had the fewest options. It was very 'Plain Jane.' The Hemi was the largest engine they had. The GTX was born.

A coupe is structurally more rigid than a liftback design. It is also lighter do to the lack of glass. No power windows, AC, Power seats, 10 Speaker sound systems.

From a pure barebones hot rod mentality the ST is the best platform to begin with.

If you want a 3SGTE be prepared for a little more work. Don't be discouraged, it can be done and is not brain surgery.

The A series engines bolt in. You will still have wiring issues with the swap. Even if you just swap head designs.

Swapping is not even mandatory.

Chaos has had the bolt-ons. She has been stripped. She has been mildy tuned. She still doesn't have the power my 3SFE in Mudhoney does. She is fun to drive, and IMO the automatic in her is much better suited to the engine for aggressive driving than the 5-speed.

With the 4AFE you are not gonna realize good power without a turbo. Even if you can modify the powerband, or stay at 4K all the time to be in it. The FE design responds well to FI. I love how a lot of folks forget about the guy running almost 600HP through a 4AFE. DaScorcha?

Oh, and the 4AFE is a DOHC. Not twincam. It is a slave setup just like the 5SFE.

Shadowlife25
05-17-2007, 02:21 PM
I owned a '91 ST years ago. It was fairly peppy with minor bolt-on's :) I was my hope to do a 3sgte swap at one point... Then I put in a nice suspension/braking system, and threw in a modest nitrous setup (wet of course) for track days. It was great fun, and it handled wonderfully.

To be honest, I will tell you the same thing I have told other friends of mine:
Learn to drive what you have to the absolute peak of your potential. If you want more from your machine past that point, THEN look at adding power.
Take for example the AE86, like 80 stock HP, but it'll out-handle most things on a mountain road that have twice that! I've seen it first hand. My vote is more towards the 30% machine 70% driver theory.

You should do whatever makes you happy.

Mario