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MCcelica
01-16-2007, 07:02 AM
what's wrong with this picture.

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j146/Sorth/DSCN0394.jpg

These ought to make it a little more obvious...

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j146/Sorth/DSCN0401.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j146/Sorth/DSCN0400.jpg

And these be the culprits, aka what we dug out of there.

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j146/Sorth/DSCN0399.jpg

Discuss.

KoreanJoey
01-16-2007, 07:06 AM
ARP > stock

KoreanJoey
01-16-2007, 07:06 AM
Actually looks like maybe it wasn't torqued to specs... looks like it backed out instead of broke...

andy
01-16-2007, 07:23 AM
suxxor, what exactly happend and what/whos car was this in.

Murgatroy
01-16-2007, 10:51 AM
Was that your girls Honda?

StylusGuy1
01-16-2007, 12:18 PM
Ouch Man, how's the crank look? Hopefully you can just slap in new bearings.

Hookecho
01-16-2007, 01:33 PM
there will be no slapping new bearings on that crank...sheite!

hobbie2k
01-16-2007, 02:49 PM
Ouch, even the block is chewed up...

Ajilon
01-16-2007, 03:50 PM
I'm with Joey. That wasn't torqued to spec.
Damn! That's about all I can say here. That really sucks.
What's the plan?

2kSnakEater
01-16-2007, 04:09 PM
was that the first Honda Crank walk? I thought only mitsu's did that!

andy
01-16-2007, 04:41 PM
that wasnt a crank walk, the con rod bearing bolts apparently came loose.

ciento44
01-16-2007, 04:44 PM
Looks like the mechanic that did the "rebuild" has his ass in the fire, shortly...

david in germany
01-16-2007, 07:43 PM
Threads looked good, not torqued, it didn't break it just came loose..
What is the rest of the story?

NDMstang65
01-16-2007, 07:49 PM
Probably didn't put loctite on it as well on top of the lack of torquing

VikingJZ
01-16-2007, 08:37 PM
Someone was a weakling.

How many miles did the thing last?

Cavanagh
01-16-2007, 08:37 PM
Ouch!

MCcelica
01-16-2007, 09:30 PM
Not torquing up to spec is what I thought too cause there was only one thread on one of the nuts that was a little stripped. And I'm also thinking it came loose and backed out too because the bolt that came out was bent, plus the obvious one stuck up in there. That semi-circular crank cap piece was stuck in the block on top of the crank and pinched between the crank and the block wall, took us the better part of an hour and a half to get it out and get the crank spinning.

Yes, this is in my girls honda (b16a2). After the rebuild it lasted about 4,000 miles, and thats it. What's puzzeling me is the oil consumption before this breakdown. If you all remember correctly it went through 4 quarts of oil in 2,300ish miles and there wasn't a drop of oil in it when it broke down, yet from what we can tell the cylinder walls are pretty clean. Didn't get it torn apart enough to look at the rings but the cylinder walls were clean. Also, on the freeway when it broke down I put in 4 brand new quarts of oil to see what happenes. We started it and ran it for about 45 seconds, heard the crank walk pinging noise and shut 'er down, yet when we drained the oil at the shop yesterday it was pretty dark. My main question now is, if it wasn't massive excessive blowby, where the hell did the oil go?

Edit: Also, when I first got there I checked the headers and there wasn't any oil coming off onto my fingers either. I mean, it's been sitting there burried in snow for about 7 weeks but there still should have been something on there if it was burning it that bad.

Mister2T
01-16-2007, 09:50 PM
so what did the mechanic say that did the rebuild?

MCcelica
01-16-2007, 09:53 PM
He was conspicuously absent from the garage.

MCcelica
01-17-2007, 03:07 AM
Any ideas on where the hell my oil went?

Murgatroy
01-17-2007, 05:56 AM
So tell me, are they gonna pay for it since it was obvious they didn't torque it to spec?

MCcelica
01-17-2007, 04:55 PM
The Mechanical Engineer is going to review the findings and do "a little more research to figure out exactly what was going on" which includes where the hell the oil could have gone and give his decision to the insurance company from there. If he says they'll cover it, they'll cover it. But that's why I'm scratching my head about the oil consumption.

NDMstang65
01-17-2007, 05:36 PM
I'd think that you'd notice oil leaking out of it..especially that much oil...the whole bottom of the car would be covered with a film.

Only place that i could figure it might have went or could have went would be the cooling system..but if the coolant wasn't the nasty milky brown color then i'm out of ideas as to where the oil could have went.

extremeskillz
01-17-2007, 06:53 PM
Yep know you know stock bolts suck. ARP man! good luck with that.

2kSnakEater
01-17-2007, 07:28 PM
maybe those pesky neighborhood kids syphoned out your oil?

MCcelica
01-18-2007, 12:33 AM
^And to what avail?

I dunno, but the more I think about it the more I think that somebody changed out the oil I put in there. There's no way in hell the stuff I put in there could have been that dark. Maybe the insurance adjuster did when he/she looked at it the first time when we weren't there in order to help get the claim denied.

alltracman78
01-18-2007, 01:20 AM
Yep know you know stock bolts suck. ARP man! good luck with that.

That's ridiculous.....
ARP are better than stock, no question there.
But stock bolts work fine in stock engines, and alot of times in higher hp engines.
You can DOUBLE a 3SGTEs power and the stock rod bolts will work fine....
Not exactly junk IMO.

MCcelica
01-18-2007, 06:17 AM
Yeah, that engine was only lightly modded just the typical bolt on honda suspects: DC Headers, and CAI so the bolts would have been fine if they were torqued properly. I dunno. This whole thing is a fuckin mess.

Murgatroy
01-18-2007, 06:23 AM
Header.

Not plural.

There is only one head. Thus one header.

Did you personally change the oil? Or did you take it to a shop, where they took it out of your site and supposedly changed the oil? If you can't find the oil, there is no evidence of where it went or otherwise, there is a chance, there was no oil in the first place.

MCcelica
01-18-2007, 06:05 PM
Sorry, it's habitual to say headers plural. I always say it that way and don't mean to, haha.

To answer your question, we took it to a place so incase something like this should happen I'd have proof that we changed the oil. We were gonna do that for about 4 or 5 changes, then resume doing it myself. And it's a damn good thing we did. For the other question, if I take a car anywhere for an oil change, I don't let the car out of my sight. I stand there and watch, and I did that time. There was oilaplenty goin in there.

Murgatroy
01-18-2007, 06:11 PM
Hmm, then I am at a loss of where the oil could have gone.

T-spoon
01-18-2007, 09:35 PM
I can't recall or find where oil consuming was discussed. Did you ever notice it in the exhaust? Was a compression test done after the rebuild and if so when? Did they change out the valve seals when they did the rebuild?

MCcelica
01-18-2007, 10:42 PM
The oil consumption was discussed in my thread about the insurance company. I'll look around for it in a few and post it in here on another reply. Short story is, it consumed 4 full quarts of oil in about 2,300 miles to where it was dry as a martini.

In yet another thread I posted pictures of one particular exhaust valve that had a chunk taken out of it, so all of the exhaust valves were replaced outright, I know that because I saw all of them. I'm not sure about the inlet valves though. I don't think the inlet valves were replaced because those are not on the receipt. It wouldn't make sense to me to replace the valves without replacing the valve seals, but it could have happened. The problem is, with that I don't really see how bad valve seals and/or valve guides could burn off that much oil. My buddy has some bad valve seals/guides on his H22 accord and he only comes up a little low, not completely out. It's unfortunate that we didn't rip into the head to inspect those though.

As for the other question, when we first picked the car up after the rebuild I noticed it smoking. We called them the next day and they said that it was probably just burning off of the catalytic converter because the didn't replace that like I asked them to. Beyond that day I never had the opportunity to follow the car and see if it still was smoking.

T-spoon
01-18-2007, 10:49 PM
Ah, hm. Bummer, sounds like it's too late to really get more info on that, it could be pretty tough determining where the oil went. I went through something similar on a 5S, ended up with no oil after less than 1k miles, it wasn't leaking out so it must have been consumed. In that case, what I think happened (a guess, but I just didn't have much info to work with, very similar situation, had a valve replaced that had been sticking and a basic rebuild of the bottom end) was that the rings were not seating and I had a ton of blow by, but again, it's tough to tell. Ended up with a couple spun bearings and no explanation. The shop screwed me over and I ended up having paid them for the rebuild and then payed Toyota to do it right. The total bill was disgustingly high. I hope you come out of this better than I did. There was family of coworkers involved with that one so I just couldn't bring myself to do what it would have taken to be compensated, but with any luck you'll come out of it better. Have I mentioned I don't like rebuilds at all?

RedWing
01-18-2007, 11:06 PM
Just a couple of thoughts;

1.Like to ring the rebuilder's neck 4 him.
Possible lame rebuilder's excuses:

Maybe rebuilder get disturbed in middle of job with upsetting news or else he
drank a beer--- or---- smoked a joint, got--lit or stoned and forgot to tighten the connecting rod bolts.

Oh- yea. Where's the locktight???

2. Maybe when the bearing begin to disinterate, that turn the oil dark.
3. time for junk yard motor. Honda junkyard motors not so hard to find.

Good Luck --hope insurance pays up.

celicatrd93
01-18-2007, 11:09 PM
funny thing my buddy had the same problem ın hıs 1994 civic. he had a b20block b18head eventually it was burning and leaking oil and not torqued bottom end. on the highway rod bearing slip and scrached the crank pretty much messed up everything up. just lıke your motor b16. sorry to hear that just nice and simple replace the bottom end. my buddies car after replacing the the crank and rods to eagle spent at least 2000 dollars it was running great until again oil leak eventually driving it hard metal shaving got into the head and pretty much messed the head up and bottom end the aftermarket shop screwed him up big time. motor was junk needed alot of money to buıld so he sold it and bought a 2002 celica gts.

MCcelica
01-18-2007, 11:53 PM
I dunno, I still think the shop or adjuster screwed it up worse than it was and put in used oil to cover their ass. I mean, it couldn't have run for long enough to get it that dirty. I mean, it wasn't the worst I've seen, but it wasn't nearly brand new either. It was pretty dark. Dark enough to where you couldn't see through the stream of it coming out the drain bolt. For that we'll have to wait and see which oil it was, the ME took a sample of it with him. If they find that the oil that was in there was inconsistant with what I put in there (5w30 Valvoline synthetic) I'll be on the phone with some lawyers in a heartbeat. I'm not going to just let this drop and if necessary I will incorporate lawyer and court fees into the damages and they'll pay out the ass for it all plus the rebuild and second rebuild etc. Honda's don't just spin rod bearings out of the clear blue sky unless they have the wrong ones in there, which is also a possability because the shop owner said they replaced them, or if something else wasn't done correctly such as not torquing the connecting rod bolts properly.

ded
01-19-2007, 05:18 AM
Damn man...CarMax did a similar thing to me, but owned up to their mistake. They didn't torque down the bolts holding my suspension to my car and that shit backed out and jumped out while I was driving.