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View Full Version : shimless bucket from 1zz??



BlueDragon
01-16-2007, 12:18 AM
Is this the right head to get the shimless buckets upgrade from?? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Toyota-Celica-1ZZ-FE-cylinder-head-with-cams_W0QQitemZ200068675455QQihZ010QQcategoryZ33617 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

KoreanJoey
01-16-2007, 12:56 AM
they're like $12 a piece from the dealership and you have to check and make sure you've got the right spacing... if you don't have know what your spacing is and it's wrong compared the ones in the head it's useless.

BlueDragon
01-16-2007, 04:48 PM
uhhhm so it is but it might not work? do i need to look for a certain year or something? Can i measure mine and then look for what i need from toyota? Will this mod keep me from running larger cams because of the no shim design?? can anyone clarify what the draw back is to not having shims because im sure i heard some negative effects most ppl dont realize.

KoreanJoey
01-16-2007, 05:40 PM
uhhhm so it is but it might not work? do i need to look for a certain year or something? Can i measure mine and then look for what i need from toyota? Will this mod keep me from running larger cams because of the no shim design?? can anyone clarify what the draw back is to not having shims because im sure i heard some negative effects most ppl dont realize.

Ok, to clarify because there's no shim you have the get the right sized bucket, there's no adjusting. And yes you can measure and get yours from toyota. Like I said it's like $12 a piece.

Trance4c
01-16-2007, 07:34 PM
You need to be able to measure the clearance of the cam, plus the shim size before you can start to guesstimate which 1ZZ shim to use.

1.) Measure each shim clearance (according to BGB instructions) to the backside of the cam lobe, using the cams that will be installed at the end of the buildup. (Stock, larger lift, whatever). Use a quality feeler gauge set such as a SnapOn. Brand X feeler gauges are like rolling the dice. We're talking accuracy in hundredths of a millimeter, so if the good gauge costs 20 bucks, don't skimp. Measure using several sizes if necessary. (i.e. if a 0.174mm gauge is JUST barely too large to fit, try stacking a .060 and a .100mm together). Get absolutely as close as you can. The feeler should go through smoothly and just BARELY drag on the two surfaces. It should never be forced. Also you may want to measure multiple times to ensure accuracy.

2.) Now that you have the distance from the top of the shim to the underside of the camshaft, it's time to remove the cams and pop your bucket/shim combos out. KEEP THEM ORGANIZED BY CYLINDER AND BY INTAKE/EXHAUST. (number them and write this down on a diagram or something. you WILL need it later.)

3.) Measure the thickness of each shim + bucket combo together as a single unit, using a precision micrometer. Record your results on your extraordinarily well laid out diagram and/or map. Now measure again. Hey, it can't hurt.
You had better keep this sheet clean, legible and straightforward. Don't use a crappy micrometer you'd find at harbor freight, either. Use a damn good micrometer from SnapOn or someone reputable. If you aren't familiar with how to use it, find someone who is. A bit too much pressure on the micrometer during measurement can throw you off two or three different bucket size increments when it comes time to order.

4.) Now that you have your Shim + bucket thickness AND your clearance measured, add the two #'s together. This is the distance from the bottom of the bucket to the cam surface.

5.) Subtract the required clearances, as stated in the BGB. For intake it's between 0.15-0.25mm. Exhaust is 0.20 to 0.30mm. It's probably a good idea to set your clearance for the middle of the range.

Example: Your Intake bucket is 5.56mm thick. Your clearance to the intake cam lobe is 0.174mm, via the feeler gauge. Together the total amount is 5.734mm. Subtract 0.20mm (the middle of the range for intake clearance) and you get 5.534mm.
The available buckets are every other hundredth for sizes ranging from 5.06mm to 5.74mm. There will be a 5.52mm and a 5.54mm bucket available for your measured range. Chances are you'll end up going with the 5.54mm bucket as it's the closest. On some other ones you may go a tad tighter. Always stay within the recommended clearance and try to keep the valvetrain as uniform as possible. If you want all your intake clearances to be 0.18mm and exhausts to be 0.24mm, make sure to set your measurements to achieve that as uniformly as possible across each set.

Now that you've recorded the specified bucket thickness for each valve, It's time to write them down on a nice easy to read list and head to the Toyota dealership. Any 1ZZFE motor will do. Just ask them to pull up something such as a 2000 MR-S, go straight to the Camshaft + Valve section and print the pages of all the part numbers directly from the blue EPC list. It will give the measurement (i.e. 5.52mm) and the Toyota part # (i.e. 13751-46260)

Go grab a coffee, review the list, write down what sizes you need, find the part #'s that correlate and try to keep it simple. Chances are the parts dept is willing to help, but they aren't going to bend over backwards for you. (I know, I work in one.)
When you're done, take the list back, smile, give the guy a coffee or something nice and ask them to order these parts for you. The coffee usually ensures that they will take extra care not to kick the parts around on the floor when they arrive.
My list looked like this:

*****************************************
Hey! Could you please order the following quantities of these part numbers?
Call me when they're in!

Part #
13751-46260 5.52mm qty. 1
13751-46270 5.54mm qty. 1
13751-46280 5.56mm qty. 1
13751-46300 5.60mm qty. 2
13751-46310 5.62mm qty. 2
13751-46320 5.64mm qty. 4
13751-46330 5.66mm qty. 3
13751-46340 5.68mm qty. 2
***************************************

Once you get them, it's as easy as following the map that you made which should detail exactly where each one goes. remove old bucket, lube up new one in some motor oil and gently install her. Reassemble according to BGB spec, measure your clearances to double check and if everything comes out kosher, you're done!

BlueDragon
01-17-2007, 01:33 AM
awesome... thank you soooo much! Ive never heard it summed up so simply. Im alot less scared now that i know what to do. I hope my mechanic has the needed measuring implements. Ill let you know how it goes. I think I may stay stock for now maybe valve springs and the shimless buckets maybe ferrea valves. ITs just too expensive to do all the head work for oversize and cams are expensive as well.

Thanks agian Trance

Playfortoday
02-07-2007, 02:02 AM
http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=217069&highlight=shimless+bucket

:ohsnap:

shame shame

Darryl
02-21-2007, 08:17 PM
valve clearance mesaured with feeler gauges, should be done on a go/no-go test.

so instead of trying to judge the right amount of push, to see if it fits and thus measures correctly.

use gauges, to go to the largest size that does slide in, record this value, the find the smallest that wont go in.

so imagine ( i'm using thousands of an inch here )

the actual gap is 18 thou. on the nose.

a 20 thou gauge wont fit, your 15 thou does. then add say a 2 thou to your 15, it does fit in. ( so we are upto 17 thou. )

try the 15 and 3 thou and 1 thou. ( 19 in total ) wont fit.

you will end up with 19 not going in. 17 going in easily, and 18 thou sliding in, but feeling a lot of drap as compared to the 17. so in this case its 18 thou. 17 slides easily, and 19 doesnt go in. when you cant make exact values, you average between the two closest values you got to fit and not fit.

hence you might be able to make up 37 thou, with available gauge blades, but not 38 or 39. and the 40 doesnt fit, so in this case you are between them, so use 38.5 thou.

if you are not happy with 38.5 thou, get another set of gauges and use the extra blades to try 39 and 38, to find out clearance.... if you want accuarcy.

and as mentioned before, use a micrometer to measure the feeler gauge blades ( ie. dont trust a printed 15 on one of them and 2 on the other as being 17 thou. when used together ) always double check if possible.

grayscale
02-21-2007, 09:43 PM
Excuse me while I :jacked: and ask a novice question, but what is the advantage of shimless buckets?

KoreanJoey
02-21-2007, 09:51 PM
less weight and if you're going from a 2nd gen it's a big advantage in higher RPM ranges because the 2nd gen is shim over and there is a possibility of the cam catching a shim and tossing it.

grayscale
02-21-2007, 10:05 PM
I see said the blind man.

Dan_Q
02-27-2007, 02:50 AM
to his deaf brother ;)

are they $12 from toyota dealers out there in the US, or is there a supplier?

I'm sure theyre more like 20 over here......... :(

KoreanJoey
02-27-2007, 02:56 AM
Umm... wow... try a Toyota Dealership.