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View Full Version : B18 or K20 swap into 2001 celica gt



NFR00StwoK
12-19-2006, 03:35 AM
First, I could be completely off base with this, but its got to be possible with out TOO much modification because people swap out the 2zz in the Lotus Elise all the time for b18's. Then if you can put in a b18, you can put in a k20. Has anyone attempted this and if so how sucessful was it.

Dont flame, i dont care how much better any particular toyota engine is than either of the honda engines. I have a k20 sitting on my garage floor that i was planning on putting in a Hatch but i just found a 2001 GT with a blown engine for real cheep. I like the look of a celica much better than a civic. Not only that but its a fact that In the USDM Honda has a much more vast aftermarket following than toyota. All i have ever owned is hondas so i know them inside and out.

Hiko
12-19-2006, 05:02 AM
You might want to ask these people (http://www.evo-gt.com/) for some advice. I searched around, but I couldn't find out what you'll need to fabricate. There is very little info about these sorts of swaps it seems like. I suppose that's because swapping engines in a car worth 45,000 doens't sound like fun to the owners.

Anyways, if I were you, and I had a welder, a k20 lying around, and a good deal on a 2001 gt, I'd do it for sure. Good luck!

Cavanagh
12-19-2006, 05:18 AM
Sounds like a good, fun project. The only reason i would agree to this is because the k20 has already good aftermarket. Yet semi sac-religous. :hehe: just messing with ya.

mar_phi6
12-19-2006, 05:32 AM
how about putting that k20 motor in a mr2 spyder it be real quick and unique but then again it would be with the celica

burnyd
12-19-2006, 05:33 AM
First, I could be completely off base with this, but its got to be possible with out TOO much modification because people swap out the 2zz in the Lotus Elise all the time for b18's. Then if you can put in a b18, you can put in a k20. Has anyone attempted this and if so how sucessful was it.

Dont flame, i dont care how much better any particular toyota engine is than either of the honda engines. I have a k20 sitting on my garage floor that i was planning on putting in a Hatch but i just found a 2001 GT with a blown engine for real cheep. I like the look of a celica much better than a civic. Not only that but its a fact that In the USDM Honda has a much more vast aftermarket following than toyota. All i have ever owned is hondas so i know them inside and out.


Im going to give my opinion first.. its lame and not worth the time nor the effort even if you have a K series motor.

Now onto what I can tell you... getting everything to work wise with the trans is going to be the hardest.. making that actual 6spd trans or whatever you get to put that onto a celica would not be easy.. wiring also is completely different from each other.. its going to be a pain.. I meen eventually with enough time and enough money I meen sure you could get it going.. but for the amount of money you can spend on a 2zz to get going fast its not worth it.

ciento44
12-19-2006, 06:19 PM
I'm sure it's a pretty viable swap. Not easy, but definitely possible in all ways...

Ok... now that that's out of the way.... why?

At least in the issue of the B18, i personally think that the 2zz is a superior engine. There have been articles pitting the two of them against each other, and usually, the writer ends up liking the 2zzge better.

Now... a K20.... maybe. But... i'd be more interesting in a K24 bottom end with a K20 head. A normal K20 isn't going to do a whole lot more than a 2zz i don't think. At least without a shit-ton of money in it that you can sink into your 2zz and make damn near as fast. Look at what people are pulling in the quarter with mild mods on the 2zz...

NFR00StwoK
12-19-2006, 06:50 PM
well i would think if the 2zz was a far superior engine than elise owners wouldnt swap it out for a b18. I could care less about a b18, I have ZERO respect for ANY NA "B" series engine (I never lost to an all motor b series when i had my h22a civic coupe). The K series on the other hand is what intrest me. If im not mistaken I believe that the 2zz has the intake in the front and the exaust at the back near the firewall with the tranny sitting on the same side as the k20, so they should sit in there about the same (Im not saying the mounts will line up). Its like i said if they can do it in a lotus then it shouldnt be that hard in a celica.

OH, about it being sac religous, there is a company in FL that will put a 2jz in my S2000 for 15K, and as soon as I pay it off next year I am seriously thinking about going to have that done(you can check it out on you tube just look up 2jz s2k). I think it would be kinda cool to have a Celica with a Honda engine and a S2000 with a Toyota engine. Sounds like a good canidate for a front page magizine article to me.

91 celica st
12-19-2006, 08:13 PM
yes the 2zz is transmounted backwards. the intake plenum in facing the radiator. hondas transmissions are on the other side, the 2zz tranny faces passenger side while k series faces the drivers side.

2zzge is a way better engine than any B series. by a LONG shot. theres just not much aftermarket into it or experimentation with it. its a relativly new engine. but in terms of block and head flow. much better engine

NFR00StwoK
12-19-2006, 10:54 PM
yes the 2zz is transmounted backwards. the intake plenum in facing the radiator. hondas transmissions are on the other side, the 2zz tranny faces passenger side while k series faces the drivers side.

I have taken a look at some of the 2zzge engines. It apears to me that the transmission is also mounted on the drivers side, with the drive belts on the passengers side, which would in turn be the same as the K20A.

Im still waiting on a reply from evo-gt to see if their conversion will work with a celica.

91 celica st
12-20-2006, 12:13 AM
yea 2zz tranny input shaft faces the passenger side, yes belts are on the pass side

PhillyDRFT
12-20-2006, 10:52 AM
I wanna see these Lotus swaps, I call BS maybe there’s one or two at most if its as viable as you claim but with the waiting list just to get one I highly doubt there’s another line of people on ebay trying to stick a civic motor in it. The Elise is mid engine anyway so the 2zz is mounted differently as compared to the celica. same shit different stick.

I'm not against cross breeding cars im a huge fan of restore and rebuild projects like porsche/chev's ect... But exactly what are you trying to achieve by doing this, I realize you wanna stick to what you know and have laying around with the honda motors but there both decent power plants its just a waste of your time and money to end up with the K20 in there.

As for the s2k's with the 2jz in there yeah that’s awesome to make it a whiplash inducing go-cart that does 0-60 in 3.5 seconds. But you paid some shop to do it. you most likely wont be able to enjoy the car more than track weekends (which is enjoyable for your track car) and everyone expects it to be fast.

If you want to do something to net you better results and turn more heads swap your f22C into your celica. since you’ll be throwing that one away when you put your 2j in rite?

ciento44
12-20-2006, 05:22 PM
I wanna see these Lotus swaps, I call BS maybe there’s one or two at most if its as viable as you claim but with the waiting list just to get one I highly doubt there’s another line of people on ebay trying to stick a civic motor in it. The Elise is mid engine anyway so the 2zz is mounted differently as compared to the celica. same shit different stick.

I'm not against cross breeding cars im a huge fan of restore and rebuild projects like porsche/chev's ect... But exactly what are you trying to achieve by doing this, I realize you wanna stick to what you know and have laying around with the honda motors but there both decent power plants its just a waste of your time and money to end up with the K20 in there.

As for the s2k's with the 2jz in there yeah that’s awesome to make it a whiplash inducing go-cart that does 0-60 in 3.5 seconds. But you paid some shop to do it. you most likely wont be able to enjoy the car more than track weekends (which is enjoyable for your track car) and everyone expects it to be fast.

If you want to do something to net you better results and turn more heads swap your f22C into your celica. since you’ll be throwing that one away when you put your 2j in rite?


The B18 in the Elises is not bullshit. Lotus actually originally tried to get them over to the US with that engine, but couldn't get it cleared for some reason, so they went with the next option, the 2zz. There is at least one company that i know of that will do the conversion for you. They're actually fairly common.

My idea as to why? The B18 makes a little more power than the 2zz when not in lift. Slightly smoother powerband. The 2zz is REALLY peaky, even more than Honduh Vtak motors.

Luni
12-20-2006, 09:26 PM
US owners are not swapping B18s into their already 2zz powered cars though.

Elises have been released with other engines that were swapped out for B18s over there.

There would be absolutely no reason to swap a 2zz with a B18. IMO.

2kSnakEater
12-20-2006, 09:35 PM
put a 3sgte into the 01 GT, much better than any Hunduh motor imo

ciento44
12-20-2006, 10:07 PM
US owners are not swapping B18s into their already 2zz powered cars though.

Elises have been released with other engines that were swapped out for B18s over there.

There would be absolutely no reason to swap a 2zz with a B18. IMO.

Agreed 120%. :)

KoreanJoey
12-20-2006, 11:03 PM
US owners are not swapping B18s into their already 2zz powered cars though.

Elises have been released with other engines that were swapped out for B18s over there.

There would be absolutely no reason to swap a 2zz with a B18. IMO.

I think you're right with this. There was a company (I think in Texas or something) that was importing the old K series powered Elise and swapping in the B18C5 (I think that's the engine code for the ITR) into them. The were also boosting the same engine/car configuration with some astonishing results. I don't know if people are swapping out the 2ZZ but that doesn't really make much sense.

PhillyDRFT
12-20-2006, 11:10 PM
The B18 in the Elises is not bullshit. Lotus actually originally tried to get them over to the US with that engine, but couldn't get it cleared for some reason, so they went with the next option, the 2zz. There is at least one company that i know of that will do the conversion for you. They're actually fairly common.

My idea as to why? The B18 makes a little more power than the 2zz when not in lift. Slightly smoother powerband. The 2zz is REALLY peaky, even more than Honduh Vtak motors.

I worded it wrong I wasnt calling the feesability of the swap bullshit but the comment that a good number of US elise owners are doing it. Luni said it better lol

ciento44
12-20-2006, 11:23 PM
I worded it wrong I wasnt calling the feesability of the swap bullshit but the comment that a hood number of US elise owners are doing it. Luni said it better lol

Ah, understood. :)

91 celica st
12-21-2006, 04:59 AM
i have personally seen a k20 powered elise. it was bosted as well

stock to stock it was acutally slower and hadled less then with the 2zz

burnyd
12-21-2006, 06:11 AM
US owners are not swapping B18s into their already 2zz powered cars though.

Elises have been released with other engines that were swapped out for B18s over there.

There would be absolutely no reason to swap a 2zz with a B18. IMO.


x2

Rix86
12-21-2006, 06:35 AM
buy a damned integra or civic.
seriously, why do all that work when you could just get a better car for the swap anyway?

Luni
12-21-2006, 07:57 AM
I also disagree with the B18 making more power out of lift. It doesnt. It is also less peaky, but a dynograph shows more area under the curve on the 2zz because of the VVTi of the engine doing its job smoothing out the torque curve out of lift. It also works in lift too, but not much smoothing going on when its advancing the fuck out of the timing trying to make power.

Again, there is no reason to put a B18 into a toyota in US, it makes no sense. There isnt a honda 6 speed that natively mates up to a B series motor, so add more money to the equation if you want your fuel economy and shorter gearing, and on top of that you will make less hp overall with it as well.

There are standalones, cams, turbo kits, all sorts of internals, valve work, everything for a 2zz motor already. People have made quite a bit of HP on them. I wouldnt touch what came in an Elise in the states.

Rix86
12-22-2006, 01:58 AM
swap the entire type r integra drivetrain in of you're going to bother with honda anything.
my opinion of course.

k2skater
12-25-2006, 12:41 AM
i can tell you for one. a b18 will be much easier to install than a k20. buttttt the k20 will be more beneficial. and which k20 is it? is it a a2 from a 02-04 types or is it an a3 from a ep or 02-04 base rsx?? if its an a3 its really not worth the swap.. but if you do want to swap i say go ahead. your gonna need some new mounts and tranny might be a little bit of struggle but in the end you will have the vtec !! ... and theres also more aftermarket for a k20 than a celica engine.. get a full-race turbo kit and you will be a fast ass celica. or you can take the easy route and drop it in a honda/acura.

NFR00StwoK
01-05-2007, 04:36 AM
I kindly asked that opinons be left out but some of you dont seem to be able to do that. So here is my opinion. Honestly, I do not think that there is any toyota engine that from the factory is better than any honda engine of the same class. The 3sgte oh yeah it made great power but in the 90 awd celica 15.3 stock for stock it couldnt even beat an 93 h22a prelude 15.1(i know the st205 was ALOT faster than the st195 but i couldnt remember if they were produced in the US or not). Just like the GTS Celica 15.2 is slower than the TYPE-S Prelude 15.0. The TT Supra 13.5 (and TTSkyline 13.7 for that matter) are slower than the nsx 13.3(we wont even go there with the na supra). The mr2 (even the earlier turbo one 14.8) is no where even close to the S2000 14.0. The civic si 4dr 14.9 kills a corolla xrs 15.8 and up until this 07 model year the accord has always been faster than the same model camry. The bottom line is that MOST toyotas can't even keep up with the same comparable honda UNLESS boosted, and even then they have to be modded to beat it. So talk about how much power they CAN make, which is true. But i can modify a b16 and have 1000 whp. Once you start moding, anything can be fast. Go ahead and bring up how much cheaper it is to mod one motor over another, but if i really cared about speed for dollar i would get a bike.

I didnt come here to start a flame war but i asked you to leave you opinons at the door, you gave me yours and i gave you mine. Once again im not trying to start anything so please let this be the end of it. Opinions are like ass holes everyone has one and they all stink to any one that they dont belong to.

For those that care, i just finnished my research on that swap, and just for the conversion alone it is almost 4 grand. Plus i already have 4k in the Type R K20A. It would cost entirely too much for too little of a gain. I would come out way ahead just buying a civic or selling the k20 and buying a 2zz. But i had to know for a fact first. You wouldnt believe how many people 7 years ago told me an h22a swap in my accord would never work. It would cost too much and i should just sell it and get something easier to modify. Now H22 Accords are a dime a dozen.(i also understand that an h22 accord isnt the greatest analogy to compare with a k20 celica but it was the best i could come up with at the time) I like to try things that are diffrent (but reasonable). Things that some people may not like or dont agree with but in turn could some day be quite common place.

redpunk
01-05-2007, 04:47 AM
i heard in the newcelica forum that 2 people had done this swap... one is the japan one is in the america but it cost of course damn much... but nothing is impossible...

91 celica st
01-05-2007, 06:53 AM
I kindly asked that opinons be left out but some of you dont seem to be able to do that. So here is my opinion. Honestly, I do not think that there is any toyota engine that from the factory is better than any honda engine of the same class. The 3sgte oh yeah it made great power but in the 90 awd celica 15.3 stock for stock it couldnt even beat an 93 h22a prelude 15.1(i know the st205 was ALOT faster than the st195 but i couldnt remember if they were produced in the US or not). Just like the GTS Celica 15.2 is slower than the TYPE-S Prelude 15.0. The TT Supra 13.5 (and TTSkyline 13.7 for that matter) are slower than the nsx 13.3(we wont even go there with the na supra). The mr2 (even the earlier turbo one 14.8) is no where even close to the S2000 14.0. The civic si 4dr 14.9 kills a corolla xrs 15.8 and up until this 07 model year the accord has always been faster than the same model camry. The bottom line is that MOST toyotas can't even keep up with the same comparable honda UNLESS boosted, and even then they have to be modded to beat it. So talk about how much power they CAN make, which is true. But i can modify a b16 and have 1000 whp. Once you start moding, anything can be fast. Go ahead and bring up how much cheaper it is to mod one motor over another, but if i really cared about speed for dollar i would get a bike.

I didnt come here to start a flame war but i asked you to leave you opinons at the door, you gave me yours and i gave you mine. Once again im not trying to start anything so please let this be the end of it. Opinions are like ass holes everyone has one and they all stink to any one that they dont belong to.

For those that care, i just finnished my research on that swap, and just for the conversion alone it is almost 4 grand. Plus i already have 4k in the Type R K20A. It would cost entirely too much for too little of a gain. I would come out way ahead just buying a civic or selling the k20 and buying a 2zz. But i had to know for a fact first. You wouldnt believe how many people 7 years ago told me an h22a swap in my accord would never work. It would cost too much and i should just sell it and get something easier to modify. Now H22 Accords are a dime a dozen.(i also understand that an h22 accord isnt the greatest analogy to compare with a k20 celica but it was the best i could come up with at the time) I like to try things that are diffrent (but reasonable). Things that some people may not like or dont agree with but in turn could some day be quite common place.

lol ur funny

stock to stock, the alltrac is on par with it. but a $50 boost controller it would kill it. you fail to realise this isnt 1990 anymore, the masses dont care about just 1/4 mile, were into drifitng, road racing, and rallys. and why are you comparing them stock? who races them 100% stock? so lets say the prelude stock to stock wins in the 1/4. but the all trac wins in every other catagory and destroys it in handeling. stock to stock

sorry but the gt-s celica isnt slower than the prelude. i have yet to hear from anyone i know or seen online of anyone running a stock 2000+ gt-s anything higher than a 15.0. a guy named vip09 hit a 14.7 bone stock. and hes into 13's territory with only i/h/e and power fc. not to mention the gt-s ownes the prelude on any roadcourse. period

scine when was a skyline a honda car? you ralise your comparing a toyota "sport car" to a honda "supercar" when comparing the nsx and supra tt? look at the prices of them when they first came out (and now). i could get 2 supra tt's for the price of one nsx. ill give the nsx credit it beats the supra stock to stock on anything. road race or 1/4. but just a little amount of $$$ in the supra and it will destroy the nsx in quarter. how many ppl really keep there cars stock? again who gives a shit about stock to stock.

you realise the 3sgte is 20 years older then the F22 in the s2000 right? again $50 boost controller and its mid 13's to the s2000's mid 14's. what can u get for the s2000 with $50? a shift knob? mabe... not to mention the mr2 rapes the s2k on a roadcourse.


HAHAHAHAHAHAH who cares if an accord is faster then a camry? are u kidding me? peopel (i hope) dont buy them to race them. if they do its small percentage of people. there pure econo 4 door cars. there about as commen as turboed paseo's

ur logic is flawed. how about i point out that the 20 year old mr2 and supra TT still beat every single car honda has made in the past 10 years? granted the same can be said aobut toyota. but they are targeting econo freinly people.

all i gotta say is look at the sales reports for toyota VS honda. then u tell me who the real winner is?

ciento44
01-05-2007, 08:40 PM
He has semi-valid points, but it's really rather too narrow-minded, as well as specific...

If we're going to pick out the fastest NSX tests... why not match them up with the fastest Supra test? Which happens to be a 13.1 in the quarter for 1993 as far as i can tell.

And those tests.... Say nothing for driver skill. Arguing over even 0.5 of a second in the quarter mile is silly, and could easily go the other way by the same amount just with different conditions, let alone a different driver.

What's the fastest test 1/4 mile you can find for a 5th gen Coupe? I will personally guarantee that i'm quite a bit faster than any official test you can find, and yes, i'm still bone stock.

What i don't understand is why we're talking about stock comparisons anyways... you've already said that you have money into your K20. Maybe i missed the point of the thread, but it seems to me that it's gone way off topic.

You say that Honda engines are superior to Toyotas. Yes, No, and No comparison. There's already a thread on this that went into great detail in the general discussion forum i believe. This one pales in comparison to the information in that one, and gets us nowhere.

Morwan
01-06-2007, 03:19 AM
The B18 swap won't be worth it. The amount of money you'll have to spend on custom fabrication will erase any possible performance gains. The K20 would be a great swap to do, though.


Just like the GTS Celica 15.2 is slower than the TYPE-S Prelude 15.0.

Those numbers are complete bullshit. People on NewCelica.org have been running high 14's on stock GTS's and have the drag slips to prove it. Hell, I/H/E will get a GTS into 13's.

EDIT: Beaten.

ciento44
01-06-2007, 03:16 PM
I still don't understand why the K20 is supposed to be so much better than a B-series engine...

I've seen my share of b-series up around 250-260-270 whp, still n/a, and i haven't heard much higher out of K-series, and when coupled with the much higher cost of a nice K20, it just doesn't really seem worth it to me.

K24, yeah, maybe. K20, i'd rather have a b-series, personally.

91 celica st
01-06-2007, 10:15 PM
its basically like the 2zz-ge...the k20 hasnt been around as long as the b series so poepl dont quite know all the tricks and stuff. eventually the k seris>B series

ciento44
01-06-2007, 10:58 PM
See... and this is exactly why i don't see why you would take the 2zzge out.... once more younger people get ahold of the cars, they're going to want aftermarket support, and the market will provide that, and we're going to see some nasty setups wandering around.

They're already damn quick with some fairly straightforward mods... How many all-motor Hondas do you see getting mid and low 13s?

Well, yeah, ok, but you get the point. :P

NFR00StwoK
01-07-2007, 10:28 PM
lol ur funny

stock to stock, the alltrac is on par with it. but a $50 boost controller it would kill it. you fail to realise this isnt 1990 anymore, the masses dont care about just 1/4 mile, were into drifitng, road racing, and rallys. and why are you comparing them stock? who races them 100% stock? so lets say the prelude stock to stock wins in the 1/4. but the all trac wins in every other catagory and destroys it in handeling. stock to stock

sorry but the gt-s celica isnt slower than the prelude. i have yet to hear from anyone i know or seen online of anyone running a stock 2000+ gt-s anything higher than a 15.0. a guy named vip09 hit a 14.7 bone stock. and hes into 13's territory with only i/h/e and power fc. not to mention the gt-s ownes the prelude on any roadcourse. period

scine when was a skyline a honda car? you ralise your comparing a toyota "sport car" to a honda "supercar" when comparing the nsx and supra tt? look at the prices of them when they first came out (and now). i could get 2 supra tt's for the price of one nsx. ill give the nsx credit it beats the supra stock to stock on anything. road race or 1/4. but just a little amount of $$$ in the supra and it will destroy the nsx in quarter. how many ppl really keep there cars stock? again who gives a shit about stock to stock.

you realise the 3sgte is 20 years older then the F22 in the s2000 right? again $50 boost controller and its mid 13's to the s2000's mid 14's. what can u get for the s2000 with $50? a shift knob? mabe... not to mention the mr2 rapes the s2k on a roadcourse.


HAHAHAHAHAHAH who cares if an accord is faster then a camry? are u kidding me? peopel (i hope) dont buy them to race them. if they do its small percentage of people. there pure econo 4 door cars. there about as commen as turboed paseo's

ur logic is flawed. how about i point out that the 20 year old mr2 and supra TT still beat every single car honda has made in the past 10 years? granted the same can be said aobut toyota. but they are targeting econo freinly people.

all i gotta say is look at the sales reports for toyota VS honda. then u tell me who the real winner is?

Thats funny to me about racing the accords and as rare as a turbo paseo, because i actually owned an h22a swapped accord that ran 13.2(w/happy gas). I also owned a 4E-FTE swaped paseo(obviously i realized they both would eventually be lost causes so i sold them and bought something bigger and better). BUT, where im from, if it has wheels and an engine someone has modded it and races it. I CAN TELL that you read absolutly NOTHING of what I was trying to say and only understood what you wanted to. YOU CANT COMPARE MODDED CARS. Im not narrow minded. LAST TIME I CHECKED the argument was who makes better engines... not whose engines can be modded to make the most WHP. Well a $50 dollar boost controller this or a upgraded that. Well what if i put a turbo on my car then it will run circles around yours!! You can mod your brother, sister's, grandma's geo metro to run 8's... WHO F'ING CARES? I DONT. Thats an argument that wont ever stop and that no one can win at. You can only compare constant varibles which would happen to be stock cars. Yes some buy cars because they are easier/cheaper to mod, or because at their base price they cost less. BUT I CLEARLY SAID if you want to use the whole faster for cheaper then i will compare my STOCK BUSA to any of your cars. Then the argument will be, but thats a bike. SO WHAT.. using the logic you use, that comparison would be fine because its only about how much you paid for how fast you can go. LIKE I SAID, im not trying to start crap, BUT I DONT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT WHAT YOUR OPINION IS, JUST LIKE YOU DONT CARE ABOUT MINE.

ANYWAY I leared what i needed and i can already tell this thread is going to get way out of hand so could admin please lock this thread.

91 celica st
01-07-2007, 11:19 PM
i love it when people make shitty arguments then ask for a lock because there retarded

arguing with a stupid person only brings you down to there level. and they will always win with experience

ciento44
01-08-2007, 12:23 AM
Thats funny to me about racing the accords and as rare as a turbo paseo, because i actually owned an h22a swapped accord that ran 13.2(w/happy gas). I also owned a 4E-FTE swaped paseo(obviously i realized they both would eventually be lost causes so i sold them and bought something bigger and better). BUT, where im from, if it has wheels and an engine someone has modded it and races it. I CAN TELL that you read absolutly NOTHING of what I was trying to say and only understood what you wanted to. YOU CANT COMPARE MODDED CARS. Im not narrow minded. LAST TIME I CHECKED the argument was who makes better engines... not whose engines can be modded to make the most WHP. Well a $50 dollar boost controller this or a upgraded that. Well what if i put a turbo on my car then it will run circles around yours!! You can mod your brother, sister's, grandma's geo metro to run 8's... WHO F'ING CARES? I DONT. Thats an argument that wont ever stop and that no one can win at. You can only compare constant varibles which would happen to be stock cars. Yes some buy cars because they are easier/cheaper to mod, or because at their base price they cost less. BUT I CLEARLY SAID if you want to use the whole faster for cheaper then i will compare my STOCK BUSA to any of your cars. Then the argument will be, but thats a bike. SO WHAT.. using the logic you use, that comparison would be fine because its only about how much you paid for how fast you can go. LIKE I SAID, im not trying to start crap, BUT I DONT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT WHAT YOUR OPINION IS, JUST LIKE YOU DONT CARE ABOUT MINE.

ANYWAY I leared what i needed and i can already tell this thread is going to get way out of hand so could admin please lock this thread.

Nobody really makes the better engine... just different.

As has already been said in this thread. As has already been said in the almost exactly similar thread in General Discussion about the Prelude.

It's nothing to get shitty over.

NFR00StwoK
01-08-2007, 03:26 AM
i love it when people make shitty arguments then ask for a lock because there retarded

arguing with a stupid person only brings you down to there level. and they will always win with experience
I did not ask for this to be locked because i am afraid of an argument with someone. I gather that you are completely unable to grasp the consept of natural logic. I am also greatly amused that you can come up with such wonderful retorts all by your self... Oh, thats right. You couldnt be orignal if you tried. You talk so large over the internet that i am purely amazed at your vast knowledge. Im guessing you own a 91 celica. Either because you cant afford anything better or you are only 16 and that is your first car. However, unlike yourself, I have had over 9 years professional experience building and racing countless vehicles. Those include over 20 diffrent Honda's and Toyota's that where my own, from family sedans to sports cars. So before you open your mouth with fatuous comments, you should at least have a general idea of what you are talking about. However, since you are most likely a juvenile and are unable to do so, I will forgive your meaningless and uneducated internet ranting.

ciento44, what you said is right on the money. It is nothing to get shitty over. I never had a chance to read that thread nor will i be able to make time. But im sure there are arguments that are good for either side.

91 celica st
01-08-2007, 04:55 AM
I did not ask for this to be locked because i am afraid of an argument with someone. I gather that you are completely unable to grasp the consept of natural logic. I am also greatly amused that you can come up with such wonderful retorts all by your self... Oh, thats right. You couldnt be orignal if you tried. You talk so large over the internet that i am purely amazed at your vast knowledge. Im guessing you own a 91 celica. Either because you cant afford anything better or you are only 16 and that is your first car. However, unlike yourself, I have had over 9 years professional experience building and racing countless vehicles. Those include over 20 diffrent Honda's and Toyota's that where my own, from family sedans to sports cars. So before you open your mouth with fatuous comments, you should at least have a general idea of what you are talking about. However, since you are most likely a juvenile and are unable to do so, I will forgive your meaningless and uneducated internet ranting.

ciento44, what you said is right on the money. It is nothing to get shitty over. I never had a chance to read that thread nor will i be able to make time. But im sure there are arguments that are good for either side.

im not a keyboard warrior. id fucmk u up in real life son. i got #2 at the state tournemtn in judo as well as train MMA. a keyboard warriorm, i am not.

:givafuck: cool i know people that build vipers that are ignorant and stupid as well. and i make more in 1 month than you own in your whole bank account so please, dont talk about money to me

what did u expect to come over to a toyota board and try to type misinformation? u were going to get a warm welcome?

Rix86
01-08-2007, 05:36 AM
this thread is internet idiocy at it's finest, right here.
a big stick to stir a big pile of shit.


Hey thread starter.... If you are so damned smart and built so many cars, why the hell did you start this thread?
Why not just build the car and then post pictures?

Cavanagh
01-08-2007, 03:15 PM
buy a damned integra or civic.
seriously, why do all that work when you could just get a better car for the swap anyway?
+1,000

Might as well get a Type-R.

NFR00StwoK
01-08-2007, 08:14 PM
im not a keyboard warrior. id fucmk u up in real life son. i got #2 at the state tournemtn in judo as well as train MMA. a keyboard warriorm, i am not.

:givafuck: cool i know people that build vipers that are ignorant and stupid as well. and i make more in 1 month than you own in your whole bank account so please, dont talk about money to me

what did u expect to come over to a toyota board and try to type misinformation? u were going to get a warm welcome?

What miss information was I trying to spread? That toyota engines need boost to beat a honda of the same class? Name one NA toyota that can beat the same NA honda in its class(if you compare GTS your better compare it to the Type-S)? Like I said you have no concept of what I was saying. BUT BEFORE ANY OF THIS STARTED, I SPECIFICIALLY asked for everyone to leave opinions out of this. Check it out IN MY ORIGNAL POST. I wasnt ever going to state mine but you stated yours. All I did was reply with my own. Your opinion pisses me off and I think you are stupid. Just like my opinion pisses you off and you think im stupid.

Oh, and who said anything about fighting? I was talking about your vast knowledge of engines with your 8th grade intelect. So you are a judo RUNNER UP. Whoop tee freakin do. Just more internet trash talk to prove your inablity to come up with a decent argument. Look at yourself, Internet trash talking is just like playing in the special olympics, even if you win you are still retarted. (You were so orignal I just thought I would be as well) You have no idea what I do, what I own, how much I make, or what I am capable of. Once again you open your mouth spouting off mindless prattle with your "first rate" typing skills. Yet you still haven't a clue as to what you are talking about. Obviously you are too dense to understand. SO, i will put this in words you can understand. SHUT YOUR DAMN MOUTH if you do not have anything constructive to add to the forums.


this thread is internet idiocy at it's finest, right here.
a big stick to stir a big pile of shit.


Hey thread starter.... If you are so damned smart and built so many cars, why the hell did you start this thread?
Why not just build the car and then post pictures?

I agree 100%. This is very stupid and idiotic. I said I wanted it locked because I KNEW it would only get out of hand(which it has). But he basicly told me that it was only because I was scared of an argument. So I will either stop when everyone else does or continue until the thread is locked.

Anyway back to your question(and I will try to be curtious to you even though your comment was a little hateful). Someone once told me that life is too short to make every mistake yourself. So the answer to your question is simple. You, I, and any one else with a fundamental back ground in mechanics can build engines. If the engine is a direct swap, than anyone can bolt it in. If you have two schematics anyone with an electrical back ground can sit there and trace wires. But not anyone can do custom fabrication. If you READ the orignal post then you might understand what I was asking. If anyone had done it or if you could use the swap kit from an elise, since it uses the same engine as the celica. Essentially YOU just told me that you don't think the people on here are knowlegdable enough about celicas to help me find the answer. Basically that I should have should have done it myself and taught everone on here something. If I didn't ask SOMEONE then I would be going at this blindly making all the mistakes myself. Why should I, if I can learn from someone else. I have already stated that i finnished researching it. The extra costs incured in modifying the celica far out way the benifits of already having the engine sitting on my garage floor. I NEVER claimed to know it all or to be able to do everything.

ciento44
01-08-2007, 08:29 PM
Actually.... there have been comparisons of the 7th gen GT-S vs. the Integra GS-R, which i'd say is a fair comparison, and most of the magazines (i know, i know, magazines lol) tended to like the GT-S better.

N/A Toyota engines that beat Hondas? Sure. Gladly. Lots of them. Just not the 4-cylinders.

Their V6s. Their V8s, simply because Honda doesn't have one.

91 celica st
01-08-2007, 08:36 PM
What miss information was I trying to spread? That toyota engines need boost to beat a honda of the same class? Name one NA toyota that can beat the same NA honda in its class(if you compare GTS your better compare it to the Type-S)? Like I said you have no concept of what I was saying. BUT BEFORE ANY OF THIS STARTED, I SPECIFICIALLY asked for everyone to leave opinions out of this. Check it out IN MY ORIGNAL POST. I wasnt ever going to state mine but you stated yours. All I did was reply with my own. Your opinion pisses me off and I think you are stupid. Just like my opinion pisses you off and you think im stupid.

Oh, and who said anything about fighting? I was talking about your vast knowledge of engines with your 8th grade intelect. So you are a judo RUNNER UP. Whoop tee freakin do. Just more internet trash talk to prove your inablity to come up with a decent argument. Look at yourself, Internet trash talking is just like playing in the special olympics, even if you win you are still retarted. (You were so orignal I just thought I would be as well) You have no idea what I do, what I own, how much I make, or what I am capable of. Once again you open your mouth spouting off mindless prattle with your "first rate" typing skills. Yet you still haven't a clue as to what you are talking about. Obviously you are too dense to understand. SO, i will put this in words you can understand. SHUT YOUR DAMN MOUTH if you do not have anything constructive to add to the forums.



I agree 100%. This is very stupid and idiotic. I said I wanted it locked because I KNEW it would only get out of hand(which it has). But he basicly told me that it was only because I was scared of an argument. So I will either stop when everyone else does or continue until the thread is locked.

Anyway back to your question(and I will try to be curtious to you even though your comment was a little hateful). Someone once told me that life is too short to make every mistake yourself. So the answer to your question is simple. You, I, and any one else with a fundamental back ground in mechanics can build engines. If the engine is a direct swap, than anyone can bolt it in. If you have two schematics anyone with an electrical back ground can sit there and trace wires. But not anyone can do custom fabrication. If you READ the orignal post then you might understand what I was asking. If anyone had done it or if you could use the swap kit from an elise, since it uses the same engine as the celica. Essentially YOU just told me that you don't think the people on here are knowlegdable enough about celicas to help me find the answer. Basically that I should have should have done it myself and taught everone on here something. If I didn't ask SOMEONE then I would be going at this blindly making all the mistakes myself. Why should I, if I can learn from someone else. I have already stated that i finnished researching it. The extra costs incured in modifying the celica far out way the benifits of already having the engine sitting on my garage floor. I NEVER claimed to know it all or to be able to do everything.

you sir are an idiot
whos getting their panties in a bunch over nothing?
this guy
hey when you done typing mindless babble u can go ahead and cry to your mommie

91 celica st
01-08-2007, 08:36 PM
oh and BTW id say #2 out of 300 people isnt that bad is it? troll

ciento44
01-08-2007, 11:11 PM
Ok.

NOW i'll support a lock.

Jesus Christ people...

NFR00StwoK
01-09-2007, 12:09 AM
you sir are an idiot
whos getting their panties in a bunch over nothing?
this guy
hey when you done typing mindless babble u can go ahead and cry to your mommie


oh and BTW id say #2 out of 300 people isnt that bad is it? troll

I didnt realize asking a legitimate question on the forums was trolling. Go cry to your mommie? How long did it take you to come up with that? I have obviously proved my point since you are unable to come up with anything better than that. So once again, you try to belittle me but in the process you only prove how much of a juvenile idiot you SIR really are.

Oh and by the way 2nd place is first loser. What division where you competing in the 12-16 age group? I bet beating up children was fun for a gentleman of your caliber.

ciento44
01-09-2007, 12:34 AM
Lock please... i don't want to read this bullshit from either of these morons.

It's not exactly helping the image here.

91 celica st
01-09-2007, 01:44 AM
I didnt realize asking a legitimate question on the forums was trolling. Go cry to your mommie? How long did it take you to come up with that? I have obviously proved my point since you are unable to come up with anything better than that. So once again, you try to belittle me but in the process you only prove how much of a juvenile idiot you SIR really are.

Oh and by the way 2nd place is first loser. What division where you competing in the 12-16 age group? I bet beating up children was fun for a gentleman of your caliber.
lol okay
why dont you go back to HT where u can complain about all your problems and someone will give a shit.

dont be mad that someone like me can be accomplished in something and an internet keboard warrior like urself can only talk shit on an internet forum. and no its 2nd place out of 18+ poeple. you tried to say im an internet warrior, and that i am not. i would fuck u up in real life kid so keep tlain shit on a forum

no citeno i just dont like someone attacking me after i post a legitiamte rebuttle just because he "knows" his shit is better

Cavanagh
01-09-2007, 01:50 AM
IBL :hehe: :)

ciento44
01-09-2007, 02:20 AM
lol okay
why dont you go back to HT where u can complain about all your problems and someone will give a shit.

dont be mad that someone like me can be accomplished in something and an internet keboard warrior like urself can only talk shit on an internet forum. and no its 2nd place out of 18+ poeple. you tried to say im an internet warrior, and that i am not. i would fuck u up in real life kid so keep tlain shit on a forum

no citeno i just dont like someone attacking me after i post a legitiamte rebuttle just because he "knows" his shit is better

I realize this. But still, the bigger man would just get out of the thread, or hit ignore. I'm not knocking you.

I can't really ignore either of you, because:

1) He's not stupid, and until the shit-slinging started, i was enjoying the discussion, and he brought some valid points to the table

2) While you and I have had our moments in the past, you know your a-series engines, and again, before the shit-slinging, i read your posts quite in-depth in an effort to learn more about an engine that i knew jack shit about.

I guess i'm just the idiot that can't stay out of the thread after putting a bunch of thought into my initial responses.

91 celica st
01-09-2007, 02:51 AM
meh dont trip. people online annoy me.
mmbelive it or not im not a honda bashing guy. nor am i one sided. albeit or ps3 vs xbox debate :). im done posting in here. if whatever taht guys name was wasnt to post more trivial garbage he can PM me

a mod should probably clean up my and his posts

NFR00StwoK
01-09-2007, 04:04 AM
For the record i have never been a part of hondatech.com , honda-acura.net or any of the other non car specfic honda forums as they, for the most part, are as dumb as you are.

ciento44 at least you are nutral and can see both sides. My friend in the 91 celica st, who can only use his hands to argue and not his brain, however is unable to do so... I thank you for that and it people like you that keep people coming to this site. I will now do what I said I would. He stopped so this is the last reply about this matter.

pokemeintheeye
01-18-2007, 09:39 PM
I grew tired of reading the whole thread. Heres what I have to say though.

You guys mentioned who makes the better engine. So, its pretty stupid when you guys are talking about what cars can hit what numbers in the quartermile. Sure, the engine runs the cars, but an engine is an engine and a car is a whole package. You can't compare two different engines by comparing two different cars. Each model car is made different. If you wanna compare engines then compare powerbands, efficiency, durability and quality. And whatever else I left out. Other than that, theres no point in comparing engines by comparing the cars.

Luni
01-19-2007, 12:40 AM
My thoughts exactly. Platform gets you across a finish line. Engine just gets the ball rolling.

Hondas are so damn successful becuase the majority of them are so light.

Put a 2ZZFE in a starlet or something like that. Then lets put that up against a B18 swapped CRX or something similiar.

Bet money the Starlet is faster.

So that means Toyota is better right?

No, it doesnt work that way. Stop being so childish and think about what youre saying for a minute guys. Quartermile times arent even close to an accurate representation of an engines output or quality. Nor is it indicitive of a good platform period.

Rix86
01-19-2007, 01:48 AM
I thought this thread died?

Dirty
01-19-2007, 04:54 PM
i sold my celica and bought a Tacoma!

you guys rock!

And jesus you guys are still here.

BlueDragon
01-20-2007, 08:17 PM
under-rated under-appreciated under-powered celicas and overhyped stigmatized annoying hondas that make US look stupid ( dont kno how many Fast and Furios cracks ive heard just cause i have a body kit) = Honda Hate.

*Clink, Clink*
My 2 Cent