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View Full Version : A new Lexus 'F' - as in 'faaast'



COLDAX
12-05-2006, 06:46 PM
From AutoWeek, 12/4/06

LOS ANGELES - Lexus will launch a performance brand in late 2007 to compete with Mercedes' AMG and BMW's M divisions.

Lexus will start with an IS sedan equipped with a 425-hp, 5.0-liter V-8. The engine is a retuned version of the LS 600h L hybrid's engine, dealer sources said.

The sedan will be called the IS-F. It will debut at the Detroit auto show in January.

Lexus likely will carry that nomenclature into other high-performance Lexus vehicles, a dealer said. He said a GS-F sedan and IS-F coupe likely will follow.

The IS-F - "F" as in "fast" - will go on sale in December 2007 and sticker in the low $50,000 range, sources said. Lexus told dealers of the plans at a recent national meeting.

Toyota Motor Co. filed for a trademark for "IS-F" on Nov. 8 with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office. It also filed for a trademark for a stylized "F" logo on Oct. 9.

A dealer source said Yamaha is tuning the IS-F engine's heads for more power. Brembo will be the brake supplier.

Lexus declined to comment.

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/9/6/F.jpg


It's about Damn time!

Cavanagh
12-05-2006, 09:27 PM
Im excited for this! Now why wont they do this with toyota? Oh it better have a choice of auto or manual.

COLDAX
12-05-2006, 10:39 PM
Im excited for this! Now why wont they do this with toyota? Oh it better have a choice of auto or manual.

Toyota has become the 'feel good' brand for people who want middle-of-the-road cars and hybrids. There is no way they are going to suddenly inject performance (fun) into their vehicles. They took away the Supra, Celica, MR2, and replaced them with underpowered boxes (Scion) and more underpowered boxes (Echo, Yaris, Matrix). They even took away the Corrolla XRS after what, 1 year?

KoreanJoey
12-05-2006, 10:50 PM
Im excited for this! Now why wont they do this with toyota? Oh it better have a choice of auto or manual.

Hopefully a decent SMG... otherwise it'll be another damn shiftable slushbox...

Hiko
12-06-2006, 07:16 AM
Another thing that I'll believe when I see.
At least it's (far) more likely than a new supra.

Morwan
12-06-2006, 07:25 AM
Does this mean TRD is going to be renamed 'F'? The AMG and M and M badges com from Mercedes and BMW's racing development teams, I'd imagine Toyota would want to do the same.

Cavanagh
12-06-2006, 03:12 PM
I hope not :(

2kSnakEater
12-06-2006, 04:43 PM
I wonder how much the maintenance will cost on this beast? and for around $50k id rather get a CTS-V

Cavanagh
12-06-2006, 11:49 PM
Lol, you think maintenance is cheap on a cts-v? or any (more then avg.) expensive car? neh, i would rather not have a boxed caddy, or a caddy at all.

KoreanJoey
12-07-2006, 12:03 AM
Hey now... if you haven't driven a CTS-V you have no place to knock it... they're friggin fast... still has that classic USDM cheapy feel inside but I can't really place why. Still, I'd totally roll in a CTS-V if I had one, was given one, or found one for a smokin deal. But if I was buying something at normal cost... probably M3 still...

Morwan
12-07-2006, 03:52 AM
Ugh, if TRD isn't involved, it's probably being designed by the same team as the IS350. Meaning it'll beat the M3 in a straight line but fail at everything else. I'd rather have a Z4 M clown shoe.


Lol, you think maintenance is cheap on a cts-v? or any (more then avg.) expensive car? neh, i would rather not have a boxed caddy, or a caddy at all.

I could see it being cheaper than a Lexus or a BMW. The CTS-V uses the same powertrain as the Corvette and the GTO (LS2 = 400 horsepower), which probably means that parts would be produced in higher numbers.


A V-8 version of the current IS sedan that will go head-to-head with the next-generation V-8-powered BMW M3. The ISF will use the 4.6-liter V-8 from the new LS460 and should also feature that car's new, eight-speed transmission, probably with paddle shifters. Not surprisingly, a manual gearbox will not be offered. Expect the usual round of go-fast body modifications and a sticker price somewhere north of $50,000, arriving in 2007. Lexus mulled over various consonants to affix to the IS prefix in arriving at a special badge for its V-8 sport sedan, but F, as in ISF, likely will get the nod. Lexus has a history with the letter f, as the original LS400 was known internally as the F1, for Flagship 1.

:(

Cavanagh
12-07-2006, 04:02 AM
No, im not knocking the Caddilac CTS-V or anything, but im just thinking if your gunna spend $50K+ on a car, i dont think a minor bump in the price of matinece should be a problem. Just thinking though. I am not knocking anyone or car.

zmile06
12-07-2006, 12:36 PM
Ive read various articles about Toyota possibly bringing back old sports cars. I even read about the celica coming back possibly not sure where...

Anyways Toyota has become a slow reliable car group, hopefully things will change aventuily until then :: frowny face ::

Toyota is still a great company, and the Lexus group of cars is pretty nice for now:)

Hookecho
12-07-2006, 01:30 PM
toyota will bring the sports car back to the states......someday :(

2kSnakEater
12-07-2006, 03:08 PM
should also feature that car's new, eight-speed transmission, probably with paddle shifters. Not surprisingly, a manual gearbox will not be offered


8 speed?? wtf are you going to do with 8 speeds? with the right gearing 6 is plenty! and the 7th Gen GTS has the worst 6 speed gearing I have ever seen.

This is a serious question, what do you do with an 8 speed auto in a "sport" sedan?

2kSnakEater
12-07-2006, 03:09 PM
I hope Toyota doesnt follow Ford in their over-enginering of crap, you dont need 8 speeds in a tranny, thats just more shit to go wrong.

hobbie2k
12-07-2006, 05:20 PM
If I remember correctly, the new 8 speed is smaller, lighter, stronger, and has fewer parts than the old 6 speed, so it *should* prove to be more durable.

I remember people saying 4speeds was more than enough back when 6speeds were getting popular. The only problem with more gears is that you spend more time shifting. But new autos and SMGs shift so quickly, that it isn't so much an issue anymore. Now it's more about making maximum use of the powerband.

And in the case of the Lexus, where smooth isolationism is the probably the goal, more gears mean less change in acceleration forces, because you're sticking in the same area of the powerband.

COLDAX
12-07-2006, 07:18 PM
The new LS 460 sedan has an 8 speed automatic.

Here is a link to a story about (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/10/automobiles/10GEARS.html?ex=1315540800&en=e6bbf68d582c92f8&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss)it

alltracman78
12-07-2006, 10:57 PM
I hope Toyota doesnt follow Ford in their over-enginering of crap, you dont need 8 speeds in a tranny, thats just more shit to go wrong.

Autos use planetary gear sets, not single gears on a shaft, so you have MANY more possible combinations.

Morwan
12-08-2006, 07:09 AM
I never understood why Toyota went ahead and developed an 8-speed instead of a CVT. Nobody's really sure about how much power a CVT can handle, but I think Toyota could've figured out a way with their huge R&D budgets.

hobbie2k
12-08-2006, 03:44 PM
I never understood why Toyota went ahead and developed an 8-speed instead of a CVT. Nobody's really sure about how much power a CVT can handle, but I think Toyota could've figured out a way with their huge R&D budgets.

They could have figured out a way, however, it probably would have made the CVT prohibitively expensive. Toyota is a very conservative company and they aren't going to spend millions developing a technology that they can only profitably sell in one expensive model. The new eight speed gets the job done, does it well, reliably, and relatively inexpensively.

Besides, I can't think of a single Toyota CVT (at least in America). Maybe there is one, but I can't remember any. So that means they'd be starting from scratch to develop a CVT that can handle 450hp. Nissan has been building CVTs for years and their current limit is still about 300hp (I have heard rumors about a different type of Nissan CVT that can handle their 4.5L V8, which means it should be safe for about 350hp and 350ft-lb). It could be argued that Nissan is at the forefront of CVT tech (every sedan they sell is available with one, and I think only the trucks still use a traditional auto. Despite their experience, they're still apparently using an auto in the new 500+hp GT-R.

Morwan
12-09-2006, 01:16 AM
It could be argued that Nissan is at the forefront of CVT tech (every sedan they sell is available with one, and I think only the trucks still use a traditional auto. Despite their experience, they're still apparently using an auto in the new 500+hp GT-R.

Where did you hear that from? Everything I've seen suggests it's using some sort of SMG.

hobbie2k
12-09-2006, 01:25 AM
Where did you hear that from? Everything I've seen suggests it's using some sort of SMG.

There was a recent spy vid taken of Nurburgring testing of the GT-R and the commentator said that the shift sounds and timing seem to indicate an automatic, rather than an SMG. I'll see if I can find the vid.

They certainly could be wrong, and I'll admit I was kinda surprised by their assessment as well. But, since the GT-Rs target is the 911 Turbo (a car as civilized as it is fast), it would make sense for Nissan to decide a well-tuned paddle-shift auto will provide daily-driver levels of comfort and ease of use, without blunting performance.

EDIT: Found the Link: GT-R Test Vid (http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/GeneralFuture/articleId=117104?tid=edmunds.il.home.photopanel..1 .*)

TheNefariousOne
12-09-2006, 01:36 AM
Regarding the 8 speed auto...there was an article in Motor Trend that talked about it. I'll see if I can dig it up and scan it or sumthing. It's supposedly t3h shit to say the least.

Morwan
12-09-2006, 04:29 PM
There was a recent spy vid taken of Nurburgring testing of the GT-R and the commentator said that the shift sounds and timing seem to indicate an automatic, rather than an SMG. I'll see if I can find the vid.

Ah, I remember that video. His justification was that it upshifted too fast to be a traditional manual, meaning it could be an SMG or an automatic. I'm more inclined to believe it's some time of SMG. A 7-speed SMG was rumored from the beginning, and I doubt Nissan would make an auto-only GT-R given its heritage and competition.

Dr Tweak
12-11-2006, 03:51 AM
They could have figured out a way, however, it probably would have made the CVT prohibitively expensive. Toyota is a very conservative company and they aren't going to spend millions developing a technology that they can only profitably sell in one expensive model. The new eight speed gets the job done, does it well, reliably, and relatively inexpensively.

Besides, I can't think of a single Toyota CVT (at least in America). Maybe there is one, but I can't remember any. So that means they'd be starting from scratch to develop a CVT that can handle 450hp. Nissan has been building CVTs for years and their current limit is still about 300hp (I have heard rumors about a different type of Nissan CVT that can handle their 4.5L V8, which means it should be safe for about 350hp and 350ft-lb). It could be argued that Nissan is at the forefront of CVT tech (every sedan they sell is available with one, and I think only the trucks still use a traditional auto. Despite their experience, they're still apparently using an auto in the new 500+hp GT-R.

The Prius is the only one that comes to mind.

-Doc

COLDAX
12-19-2006, 06:10 PM
Some spy photos:

http://www.caranddriver.com/assets/image/2006/Q4/120820061702197071.jpg

http://www.caranddriver.com/assets/image/2006/Q4/120820061702204895.jpg
Stacked exhaust!

http://www.caranddriver.com/assets/image/2006/Q4/120820061702216698.jpg


http://www.caranddriver.com/assets/image/2006/Q4/120820061702227220.jpg

http://www.caranddriver.com/assets/image/2006/Q4/120820061702233822.jpg



http://www.caranddriver.com/assets/image/2006/Q4/120820061702235004.jpg

Cavanagh
12-19-2006, 11:31 PM
Sexxxy.

KoreanJoey
12-19-2006, 11:54 PM
I miss the old IS300... liked that one better. Guess I'm just more of a fan of smooth corners rather than sharp contrasting lines.

ciento44
12-20-2006, 12:00 AM
Oh but Joey... the key operative word here is "old."

Have you seen how fast and far the used price of those things are dropping? It's a glorious occurance. :)

KoreanJoey
12-20-2006, 12:01 AM
hrmmm... might have to check that out.

Cavanagh
12-20-2006, 04:45 PM
Finally they are dropping....

mtp_69_i
01-09-2007, 12:10 AM
thread necromancy I know but check this (http://www.leftlanenews.com/2007/01/08/2008-lexus-is-f/) out

Idiot Stick
01-09-2007, 12:33 AM
I'd rock it.

I'd BUY it if it was a manual.

Cavanagh
01-09-2007, 04:10 AM
Its an awesome piece of machinery, but i still wish it had the option of manual. I guess they made up for it for making a coupe version...

mtp_69_i
01-09-2007, 04:36 AM
blah, it's an 8-speed auto!!! why do you need a stick

::runs to put flame suit on:: :D

Cavanagh
01-09-2007, 05:12 AM
Im not hating on automatic or 8 spd. in general. I just think some people would want the manual as an option for spirited driving enthusits.(<- word butchered horribly) :)