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View Full Version : Decisions decisionsm, 4afte or blacktop 20v



91 celica st
12-05-2006, 02:43 AM
so as some u know i had a 4afte. loved it, got pulled over, got popped by a cop and smog reffed. took the shit off and decided to build a better turbo kit,capable over over 200WHP. ive pretty much accomplished that, only thing left to do is put the kit on, tune it and go. but....

ive always wanted to swap a blacktop 4age into my st. but im bound by california smog, and to be on my parents insurance my pops makes me keep my car "smog legal" as in when every 2 years roll around and i need to smog my car (or i get reffed) i can pull my shit off and do it. im by far capable enough to swap a blacktop into my st. the only reason why i never didit when i had my blacktop in my garage (so hard not to :( ) is because of smog. so here is my delemma

im due for my 2 year smog in april 07. i can buy the 4th gen alltrack ive been wanting to buy the past few weeks thats near by me. sell my 4afte turbo kit for at least $1500 (ive dumped more than that into it) and swap in the blacktop right after smog using an extra 4afe harness i have. then just un-swap or sell it in 2 years while keeping my 4afe and harness in sotrage.

OR.....

scince there are alot of nay sayers out there, and most people believe a 4afe cant hit 200WHP on the stock bottem end ive always watned to do that. its been basically a passion ive had scince buying the car 4 years ago. so hit 200WHP, and when april rolls around, smog the car and sell the kit amnd buy somehting else or put the kit back on



i need some insite. i REALLY want to hit the magical 200 mark wit the 4afe. i think it has potential when most people see it as a paperweight. BUT i dont feel the need to dump a shitload of money into a $2000 car when ive realy wanted an st-165/185 when i could sell the kit, and swap and sell the car for alot more because it will be the first and only blacktop 4age st in the world..... can i get some insite on this???? im really close minded and want the 4afte but swapping the blackmtop does sound more logical on paper

elektrateq
12-05-2006, 03:55 AM
the only 4age st celica? Really? Somehow I doubt that.

TheNefariousOne
12-05-2006, 04:08 AM
Only Blacktop 4age ST celica he said...which I think is entirely plausible.

91 celica st, I say you go full forged bottom end and really see what the 4afe can do. That'd be sweeeet. BTW, what do you use for tuning? MS?

91 celica st
12-05-2006, 04:28 AM
smt-6....IMO the best piggyback u can buy

if i go forged im going to use a 4agze bottem end w forged rods and pistons. technically itll sitll be an engine code of 4afte cuz the 4agze block is still a 4A, plsu till be cheaper thanbuilding a forged 4afe bottem end and more reliable due to the crank being better and the 8 bolt flywheel

btw i have a shitload of 4agze parts already like 8-lb flywheel BUT

i dont know if i use the 4agze bottem end if i will pass smog due to the diffrence in compression

91 celica st
12-05-2006, 04:29 AM
oh and there has been a couple silvertop 20v's into an st and a few rdtop 4age's but i know 99% theres never been a blacktop.....if there has hes never been online, taken a picture of it, dyno tuned it or anything to my knowledge

elektrateq
12-05-2006, 05:43 AM
well, why the hell not!

Hookecho
12-05-2006, 05:52 PM
i say go blacktop

Cavanagh
12-06-2006, 03:58 AM
Thats all your call, it seems you have gone to far with the 4afte to just stop now, and you said you were smog legal with it on? if so, i'd say keep it, and make life eaiser. but, if you want a high revving rare blacktop 4age, go for it, just have fun when smog rolls around.

91 celica st
12-06-2006, 05:41 AM
its not smog leagal w the turbo kit on. but i can take it off in 2 or 3 hours, its not a big deal and can just zero out the smt setting and leave the IC on just take out the piping.....BUT

the real problem with the blacktop is if i ever get pulled over around here the cops are ASSHOLES, they WILL tow my car if they know its not the stock engine. with the turbo kit ill only get reffed. with the blacktop i will get towed.


Btw kits 95% completed jmust need a celica guage pod and thats about it. got my wideband today and everyhting. ill post pics of the entire thing this weekend. looks pretty sweet

Colossus20v
12-06-2006, 06:04 AM
How do cops know what came stock in your car? Whether it is a blacktop or silvertop or 3sgte or 4agze, how the hell do they know? Why cant you just tune your engine out to pass smog? Smog is emissions right? I'd go blacktop and tune it very well to pass as long as you dont have an ass of a mechanic who fails you on visual you should be fine. But thats just me.

On the other hand I think a turbo'd 4afe would be a lot of fun.

You just need to decide what you want out of the car. And as far as selling it for a lot more because it has a blacktop in it, doesnt really matter. The reality is that you have a 1991 Celica ST. KBB of it is what it is. You could probably get a little more, but it just sounded like you were thinking of making like $5k off a car that is worth $2-3k.

91 celica st
12-06-2006, 06:31 AM
How do cops know what came stock in your car? Whether it is a blacktop or silvertop or 3sgte or 4agze, how the hell do they know? Why cant you just tune your engine out to pass smog? Smog is emissions right? I'd go blacktop and tune it very well to pass as long as you dont have an ass of a mechanic who fails you on visual you should be fine. But thats just me.

On the other hand I think a turbo'd 4afe would be a lot of fun.

You just need to decide what you want out of the car. And as far as selling it for a lot more because it has a blacktop in it, doesnt really matter. The reality is that you have a 1991 Celica ST. KBB of it is what it is. You could probably get a little more, but it just sounded like you were thinking of making like $5k off a car that is worth $2-3k.
they carry a book with them with pictures of what should be in a stock car. theres ALOT of riced out civics and shit around here and they pull anyone over w anything (me for instance my a pillar 3 guage pod and AT style hood) so they pull u over, bust out the book and tow ur car. yea pretty gay if u ask me.

as for smog the blacktop dosent have an egr. it will not pass at ALL w out it, wont pass visual and wont pass the sniffer. theres a 0% chance. the NO gets soooooo much higher w/out an egr theres seriously 0 chance it will pass. i could get a hush hush smog for around $300 but whats the point in that when thats 2 days worth of work as opposed to 5 or 6 hours for swapping the eingines.

oh no i didnt expect 5K like around $3500 mabe $4000 considering the other shit ive put into it. if i go blacktop ill more or less use a 4agze bottem end after awhile and turbo it


as it stands i have like 2-3 people that want to buy the kit out of my hands. i spent $1500 on it ($2100 if u count smt-6 and aem wideband w it but i wont sell it w those unless they want to pay me $2250). i have an offer for $1750...wouldnt take any less then that considering the timne ive put into it. i duno mabe ill put the kit on ebay and put reserve at $1750 and say at $2200 ill throw in the wideband and smt-6. if it sells ill swap after april, if it dosent mabe ill just turbo it and either put it back on after smog or sell it and swap after msmog

91 celica st
12-06-2006, 06:33 AM
grrr this is annoying :( i need to choose farily quick my garage is going to be tied up here real soon and wont be able to put the kit on till early jan if i dont do it within the next week

Colossus20v
12-06-2006, 01:57 PM
What about getting your alltrac selling the turbo kit and celica and buying something else like a corolla and then swapping in the blacktop and use it as your race car or whatever you want to do with it?

Trust me I know the blacktop wont pass emissions or visual. My mechanic just hasnt checked for the egr on it and I keep failing emmisions. PA lets me spend $150 to try and get it to pass and if I fail 3 times then I get a waiver. That is what has happened the past two years. This year though I am trying to pass. I'm working it out. I only fail at idle.

Thats bullshit about the cops too. Im so glad I dont live in CA. It is a lot of fun to rev all the way up to 8k. 4500 rpms -8k is a lot of fun on the silvertop. Blacktop would be even more fun I bet.

Cavanagh
12-06-2006, 03:10 PM
In all honesty, i would say then to just keep the turbo kit then, seems like it would be alot less of a hassle IMHO. And since you have gotten so far with your 4afe, might as well keep it a 4afte and kill honduhs. If you do have that blacktop in your garage, i sure wouldnt mind buying it off you, since we dont have inspection here. If you decide you might want to sell it. Shoot me a PM. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

91 celica st
12-06-2006, 04:52 PM
blacktop ended up going in a te27 corolla :), thats waht it was origiannly bought for but thoguht about celica swapping it

colossus, i wont sell my st for awhile. i say ill sell it swapped, but i honestly doubt it. ill probably end up letting my gf drive it so i can keep it in the family. ive had ir for 4 years, why not keep it longerm, dunno if ill ever get rid of it.


money isnt really an issue. i make a decent chucnk of change after bills and such. so im not trippin about selling the cleica to buy an AT. i basically have the money to shell out for one. i just dont feel the need when im insured on 4 other cars.

Cavanagh
12-06-2006, 11:47 PM
what do you have currently? Corolla, mr2, celica? IMHO, if you got the cash for an AT, i would say sell the ST to the GF or w/e and buy an alltrac, just my thought.

91 celica st
12-07-2006, 01:58 AM
nope corolla sold like a year or 2 ago, JUST got rid of the mr2 like in novmenber. i have a 72 ford bronco (yes i like older cars as well, always had a heart for a 240z) plus im imsured on all my parents cars so i can use any of those 4 as well.

actualy im pretty sure ima throw this new turbo kit on this weekend. i figure if i do it now and i hit 200WHP by the time smog rolls around i can sell the kit and just swap after smog.

i guess well see if i run into any problems this weekend while putting the kit on. if i cant finish it by monday or somehting happens i might run down and buy that AT