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VikingJZ
11-27-2006, 06:42 AM
I want everyone to contrast different engines between some of the Japanese car companies.

My vote goes to the 3SGTE. What's everyone's opinion.

I'm really tired.

Hookecho
11-27-2006, 01:40 PM
22re....

2kSnakEater
11-27-2006, 02:16 PM
Cobalt SS Ecotec, supposed to be good for 800hp + on stock internals.

90CelicaST
11-27-2006, 03:24 PM
^Japanese, not European. Yes I said European as in Vauxhall not Chevrolet.

Honda B16A1(the SiR one[high compression]). Those things are hella fun to drive in a CRX!

Cavanagh
11-27-2006, 03:30 PM
Greatest in....realiablity, preformance or both?

ciento44
11-27-2006, 04:58 PM
Ej22t.

burnyd
11-27-2006, 05:06 PM
Dsm

TEAMFaint
11-27-2006, 05:19 PM
^Yes because we all love crankwalk :Ban1:



We actually had a site posted to vote for the greatest engine, I think it included Inline 6's as well, 3SGTE's were by far the most voted, I think thats because the only site that knew about it was this one :laugh:


My vote goes to...22re for reliability
3sgte for cheap turbo motor
and GSR motor out of an Acura for power on low PSI..I'm takin about 7 PSI hittin 300 wheel horse and torque. Hondas are all gay and slow.

91 celica st
11-27-2006, 07:11 PM
2zz

Morwan
11-27-2006, 07:59 PM
Turbo or N/A?

^Yes because we all love crankwalk :Ban1:
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/Morwan/crankwalk2.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/Morwan/crankwalk.jpg

burnyd
11-27-2006, 08:24 PM
hey crankwalks but it makes the most power.

What are we reaslly going for? Power and reliability? I would say sr20. Power and power I would say dsm... reliability I would say 3sgte.

2kSnakEater
11-27-2006, 08:44 PM
4g63

Cavanagh
11-27-2006, 09:34 PM
and GSR motor out of an Acura for power on low PSI..I'm takin about 7 PSI hittin 300 wheel horse and torque. Hondas are all gay and slow.
Hell yes, the B18C1 is a badass engine indeed. OR the B18C5 aka Type-R engine. But my vote goes out to the B18C1 GSR engine. :thefinger

VikingJZ
11-28-2006, 04:43 AM
Eh....it doesn't really matter.

How much has anyone gotten out of a 3S anyway?

wrongboy
11-28-2006, 04:53 AM
SR20DET anyone? Am I taking crazy pills? 4g63- I mean shit, if we are talking 4g63 one can build any motor to be powerful and unreliable (but fewer will become unreliable so quickly). I think that the DSM has a bad rap overall, but it is not completely unwarranted.

burnyd
11-28-2006, 05:10 AM
Eh....it doesn't really matter.

How much has anyone gotten out of a 3S anyway?

Seen some mr2s on OC with around maybe 8-900hp I believe? Cant be pausitive. But I know there is atleast one thats around 800whp/

burnyd
11-28-2006, 05:11 AM
and GSR motor out of an Acura for power on low PSI..I'm takin about 7 PSI hittin 300 wheel horse and torque. Hondas are all gay and slow.


Im guessing your talking about a b18c with a t3/t4 60 trim ? On a stock motor. Its not fair. lol... they usually go high 12s low 13s :(

InitialD93
11-28-2006, 05:13 AM
B18C or 4AGE Formula Atlantic

TheNefariousOne
11-28-2006, 05:16 AM
Alas, why can't it be easier to get quick HP on the 3s :-/

Hiko
11-28-2006, 05:47 AM
Seen some mr2s on OC with around maybe 8-900hp I believe? Cant be pausitive. But I know there is atleast one thats around 800whp/

808 whp (http://www.mr2ownersclub.com/mr2records/dyno/jburke.jpg) seems to be the record.

As for my vote, I have no idea what the best four cylinder is, so I'll say 3sgte cause I'm bias :D

85gtsblackman
11-28-2006, 06:45 AM
22r-e

lemme go get my backup info :hehe:

brb

back, edit:
Toyota R engine - Considered to be one of the most reliable engine series ever manufactured

found here
skroll down to r series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight-4)

DarkSideCelica
11-28-2006, 07:54 AM
f23a1 :D





























jk... the accord motor is ghey *sigh* i would say SR20DET

KoreanJoey
11-28-2006, 08:03 AM
Seen some mr2s on OC with around maybe 8-900hp I believe? Cant be pausitive. But I know there is atleast one thats around 800whp/

Pikes Peak = 1200HP

91 celica st
11-28-2006, 08:14 AM
yea theres defiantly been more than 1 3sgte over 800whp

pikes peak made over 1100+

Luni
11-28-2006, 08:16 AM
Joey the pikes peak anything was a 503E.

You uneducated f00z talking about crankwalk dont know shit. It only happens on 7 bolt 4G63 engines.

As far as power and tuneability and output? 4G63 takes the cake.

For reliability 3SGTE takes the cake.

For fun factor 2zz is great.

Id say overall my fav 4 banger is the 4G63 though. mean mofos. 3SGTE is right behind but 4G makes more power without head/VE mods and its ECU is much better than ours.

KoreanJoey
11-28-2006, 08:33 AM
Joey the pikes peak anything was a 503E.

You uneducated f00z talking about crankwalk dont know shit. It only happens on 7 bolt 4G63 engines.

As far as power and tuneability and output? 4G63 takes the cake.

For reliability 3SGTE takes the cake.

For fun factor 2zz is great.

Id say overall my fav 4 banger is the 4G63 though. mean mofos. 3SGTE is right behind but 4G makes more power without head/VE mods and its ECU is much better than ours.

And the 503 is what? a built toyota 3SGTE... ask Rod Millen, he'll tell you. :) That's what he told me.

burnyd
11-28-2006, 02:38 PM
Pikes Peak = 1200HP


lol this has been covered like 230303203229 and on celica.net... its not a 3sgte motor!

hobbie2k
11-28-2006, 02:56 PM
And the 503 is what? a built toyota 3SGTE... ask Rod Millen, he'll tell you. :) That's what he told me.

When he says it's a "built" 3sgte, did he tell you how much of the original 3sgte still remained? You could say a Top Fueler runs on a "built" Chrysler Hemi, or that a Nascar racer runs on a "built" Chevy small-block. They are based on those engines, but nothing of the original remains.

My favorite 4cyl - SR20DET, though I've always wanted to drive an SR16VE. It's claimed the SR16VE had the world's highest specific output for a production car till the S2000 came out.

Also, the VW group's BPY (2.0 direct injection Turbo) is a great engine in stock form. But since it's so new it might be a while till we know what sort of potential it has (a future TT version is said to have 280+hp). I know, it's european, not japanese, but I still think it's worth mentioning.

85gtsblackman
11-28-2006, 03:13 PM
For reliability 3SGTE takes the cake.


when was the last time u saw a 600k 3s that didnt have a rebuild and ran strong, hell even a 300k one :squint:

22r-e 22r-te & 5vz-fe ftw :hehe: ......and yes ive seen a turboed 22rte , that still runs, with over 400k on it in a quad runner, no rebuild ever :bigthumbu i was amazed

btw saw an evil 5vz, made 800awhp? it was on a 4wd truck and it had 4 slicks, even had a dyno sheet just need to find it


waiting for someone to say the r series is slow

tankd0g
11-28-2006, 03:25 PM
If it hasn't won a WRC, it doesn't deserve to be on the list.

hobbie2k
11-28-2006, 03:49 PM
If it hasn't won a WRC, it doesn't deserve to be on the list.

WRC isn't all about the engine, you know. The Nissan Pulsar GTi-R ran in WRC in the early 90s and wasn't very competitive, mostly because of poor chassis balance, not the engine (it performed much better in privateer hands and even won a class N championship, I think). And what about great engines that were never even ran in WRC? The B18c would suck on a rally course, but is incredible on a road course.

Though I am surprised no one has mentioned the EJ20 or 25, especially stxman.

91 celica st
11-28-2006, 04:49 PM
Ej22t.
they did

tankd0g
11-28-2006, 05:01 PM
WRC isn't all about the engine, you know. The Nissan Pulsar GTi-R ran in WRC in the early 90s and wasn't very competitive, mostly because of poor chassis balance, not the engine (it performed much better in privateer hands and even won a class N championship, I think). And what about great engines that were never even ran in WRC? The B18c would suck on a rally course, but is incredible on a road course.

Though I am surprised no one has mentioned the EJ20 or 25, especially stxman.

Honda stays out of rallying because they know their flimsy crap wouldn't stand up, so no props to them. Subaru, Porsche and Mitsubishi all deserve a higher place than anything Honda.

85gtsblackman
11-28-2006, 05:20 PM
i wants me an ej25

yes the ej22 and 25 are pretty indestructible as well

my ej22 died at 398,889 miles, it lived a hard life but made it to cali and back

TheNefariousOne
11-28-2006, 05:23 PM
I guess that's why they stay out of F1 too eh? Cause their "flimsy crap" wouldn't stand up...

Ok...

85gtsblackman
11-28-2006, 05:33 PM
toyota in wrc....beats ass

toyota in f1.....engines constantly fail


i dont understand :(

Trance4c
11-28-2006, 05:59 PM
toyota in wrc....beats ass

toyota in f1.....engines constantly fail


i dont understand :(

Actually.. Toyota engine reliability was great for this last season, not only for the works team, but also the private contract teams. You have to remember, Toyota supplies engines not only to Toyota :D

85gtsblackman
11-28-2006, 06:33 PM
yeah thats true

T-spoon
11-28-2006, 06:40 PM
I guess that's why they stay out of F1 too eh? Cause their "flimsy crap" wouldn't stand up...

Ok...


Well, not to comment either way on Honda, but F1 and WRC have very different requirements as far as durability are concerned, even more so if you include the chassis in the argument.

burnyd
11-28-2006, 07:05 PM
well mr black man have any info on that dyno from the truck.. pics vids?

lburner
11-28-2006, 08:24 PM
Sr20det S15

KoreanJoey
11-28-2006, 08:31 PM
Well, not to comment either way on Honda, but F1 and WRC have very different requirements as far as durability are concerned, even more so if you include the chassis in the argument.

Plus F1 keeps changing their rules like every friggin season so they're always having to make adjustments to the car to fit into the new rules, it'll take some time for a newer company like Toyota to get to the top as they don't have the base to start from like Ferrarri.

91 celica st
11-28-2006, 09:34 PM
ahhhh push to pass if fucking sick

Cavanagh
11-28-2006, 09:42 PM
Huh?^

Trance4c
11-28-2006, 11:39 PM
Plus F1 keeps changing their rules like every friggin season so they're always having to make adjustments to the car to fit into the new rules, it'll take some time for a newer company like Toyota to get to the top as they don't have the base to start from like Ferrarri.

Not true as well.. F1 went to the new V8 formula just this last season (which makes reliability look even that much better). BUT.. teams are currently in an engine evolution freeze. Changes can not take place, thanks Max Mosley! Also, Toyota does have the base that Ferrari has, infact.. more so! Toyota had the largest budget of last year.

91 celica st
11-28-2006, 11:40 PM
champ car incorperated a thing called push to pass. its a button that can be pushed a few times a race, it gives and extra 30-50 hp (dont remember the amount)

basicaly it makes it so if your faster than the guy in front on a small course, and hes cocmk blocking u...u press it and youll be able to pass him

F1 is supposed to be incorperating this in the next few years

Trance4c
11-28-2006, 11:50 PM
champ car incorperated a thing called push to pass. its a button that can be pushed a few times a race, it gives and extra 30-50 hp (dont remember the amount)

basicaly it makes it so if your faster than the guy in front on a small course, and hes cocmk blocking u...u press it and youll be able to pass him

F1 is supposed to be incorperating this in the next few years

F1 will not incorperate this.. infact, there has been no offical talk of this, were you heard this, I dunno. The only thing even similar to this has already been done, and that is 20K revs, done by Ferrari and the Cosworth engines supplied to the Williams team. Cosworth lost they're contract at the end of this year. Most team's are reving to about 18K and an interesting tidbit of information is that we will be on the eve of a new technology, intake speeds for 20K RPM's are approaching speeds of sound. Flow dynamics drastically change at that point, R&D will definately be interesting. I doubt though that it will ever happen, hence the engine freeze. Gay if you ask me.

Push to pass was originally taken from A1GP, which I think is a great idea in that sport. Champ car is hurting, and so is Indy.. but, they fucked themselves.

As for what F1 will do.. there is a lot of research and developement being done on the wash effect on the front aero work approaching the rear of another car. Solutions like the GTD wing have been proposed, but I wouldn't count on it.


Speaking of the engine freeze, Honda pushed for a new 07' spec v8 in the end of this '06 season to try to beat the deadline. It didn't work out, they blew both the motors, rushing work is never worth it.

MrWOT
11-29-2006, 12:40 AM
Ford 2.3L DI motor. It's the new formula atlantic motor, but with a direct injected head, see: Mazdaspeed 6 :)

VikingJZ
11-29-2006, 01:57 AM
Ferrari just has the long standing tradition and the championships...especially with Schuey.

3SGTE seems to take the close second to the 4G. I've heard nothing but bad things about Mitsubishis in general. The Eclipses more so. I want something I can crank a bunch of ponies out of and not worry about blowing it up.

I also want something I can easily put into my car...haha


Oh and anyone see if SpeedChannel put WRC or F1 back on yet?

tankd0g
11-29-2006, 02:36 AM
I guess that's why they stay out of F1 too eh? Cause their "flimsy crap" wouldn't stand up...

Ok...


Ya they fell pretty hard one their face there too didn't they. 1st lap engine failures and winless seasons are hilarious, but they are also the reason a new civic costs as much as a Colbalt SS.

tankd0g
11-29-2006, 02:41 AM
Toyota needs to wise up and get out of F1, Bernie is mad cow level insane and the marketing doesn't translate at all. The only team that actually sells a car that has any of the F1 car's technology in it is Ferrari. Where can I buy a Toyota F1 car? No where. Where can I buy a Subaru rally car, Audi touring car or Chevy GT car? At my local dealer.

91 celica st
11-29-2006, 02:42 AM
F1 will not incorperate this.. infact, there has been no offical talk of this, were you heard this, I dunno. The only thing even similar to this has already been done, and that is 20K revs, done by Ferrari and the Cosworth engines supplied to the Williams team. Cosworth lost they're contract at the end of this year. Most team's are reving to about 18K and an interesting tidbit of information is that we will be on the eve of a new technology, intake speeds for 20K RPM's are approaching speeds of sound. Flow dynamics drastically change at that point, R&D will definately be interesting. I doubt though that it will ever happen, hence the engine freeze. Gay if you ask me.

Push to pass was originally taken from A1GP, which I think is a great idea in that sport. Champ car is hurting, and so is Indy.. but, they fucked themselves.

As for what F1 will do.. there is a lot of research and developement being done on the wash effect on the front aero work approaching the rear of another car. Solutions like the GTD wing have been proposed, but I wouldn't count on it.


Speaking of the engine freeze, Honda pushed for a new 07' spec v8 in the end of this '06 season to try to beat the deadline. It didn't work out, they blew both the motors, rushing work is never worth it.
i have a friend that races champ car...said f1 was looking into something like this

tankd0g
11-29-2006, 02:44 AM
Ferrari just has the long standing tradition and the championships...especially with Schuey.

3SGTE seems to take the close second to the 4G. I've heard nothing but bad things about Mitsubishis in general. The Eclipses more so. I want something I can crank a bunch of ponies out of and not worry about blowing it up.

I also want something I can easily put into my car...haha


Oh and anyone see if SpeedChannel put WRC or F1 back on yet?

There's no room for silly things like that with so much Nascar to be played forwards and backwards and with the redneck commentary.

Trance4c
11-29-2006, 02:47 AM
Guys.. no offense.. I've been an avid F1 fan for 18 years of my 25 year life.. which really... is NOTHING in the scene of F1. Its pretty much embarrasing reading most of this, no wonder Toyota has the lowest fan support of all the teams.

I'm going to exit this thread because this is way off topic from 'greatest 4 cylinder', its almost as good as the guy that tried to tell me a few weeks ago in person that he was putting a V12 Ferrari engine he could get for 400 dollars in his Focus. Seriously.. those that do know.. just walk away..

Cavanagh
11-29-2006, 02:59 AM
he was putting a V12 Ferrari engine he could get for 400 dollars in his Focus. Seriously.. those that do know.. just walk away..
:lolhittin :lolhittin :lolhittin :lolhittin :lolhittin

91 celica st
11-29-2006, 03:14 AM
, its almost as good as the guy that tried to tell me a few weeks ago in person that he was putting a V12 Ferrari engine he could get for 400 dollars in his Focus.
lol