PDA

View Full Version : gt-s vs gt-s



jjazmin
11-20-2006, 07:38 AM
stupid question, but do you guys know how well a 92 gt-s would compare to a 7th gen gt-s'..like..from a stop, then taking off from there..or at a roll...would the 7th gens just eat us?

sloceli
11-20-2006, 08:06 AM
Yes, the 7th gen can run high 14's with just a few bolt on's

burnyd
11-20-2006, 08:12 AM
the motor in the 7th gens is like 343448938439493x better than a 5sfe.

sloceli
11-20-2006, 08:20 AM
I don't know about that. I'm sure if you put some high comp pistons in the 5s and ran the same compression ratio as a 2zz the 5s would hold its own. Torque wise the 2zz sucks.

Sean
11-20-2006, 08:25 AM
Yeah but the E in the 5sfe is for economy, its the head that holds the 5s back so much. Low peak torque, is not good for high winding HP.

sloceli
11-20-2006, 08:35 AM
Tell that to presure2. Granted he's running a 5sfte but raising the com ratio will do the same thing. With proper fuel tuning a 5s with a high comp ratio will produce more hp and tq than a 2zz. You have also got to look at curb weights of both and the 7th gen is lighter.

Stock for stock a 5th gen GTS has no chance.

91 celica st
11-20-2006, 08:35 AM
Yeah but the E in the 5sfe is for economy, its the head that holds the 5s back so much. Low peak torque, is not good for high winding HP.
You mean F, e is for fuel injected :)

and i dont belive there has been a very high hp n/a 5sfe

sloceli
11-20-2006, 08:38 AM
The most hp out of a n/a 5s was 149.something in a MR2.

Sean
11-20-2006, 08:50 AM
Raising the compression ratio will help make more power, but it wont fix not getting enough air at higher RPM's.

F is for economy, and E is for fuel injection? Common sense is yelling at me otherwise.

91 celica st
11-20-2006, 08:50 AM
yea i tought it was somehtin like 150-160
best out of a 1zzfe i know is 160 whp
best out of a 4afe ive heard of is 130

Sean
11-20-2006, 08:51 AM
electronic fuel injection, hmm, thought the E was for economy, meh, guess I'm wrong.

Have any verification?

What is your background anyways? Your a mystery man, start up a thread in the multi section, would love to see some pics of your cars and your background in mechanics.

91 celica st
11-20-2006, 08:52 AM
Raising the compression ratio will help make more power, but it wont fix not getting enough air at higher RPM's.

F is for economy, and E is for fuel injection? Common sense is yelling at me otherwise.
5=revision
s=engine type (block)
f=econemmy/head
e=fuel injection


hence 22R and 22RE, thats why its club4ag.com and not club4age.com becuase theres a carb verision on the 4age and its a 4agm, hence the no E cuz its not fuel injected....hope that clears it up

Sean
11-20-2006, 09:01 AM
Sure does!

sloceli
11-20-2006, 09:04 AM
Dont worry about it Sean just have another drink or two.

Sean
11-20-2006, 09:17 AM
Umm, havent been drinking at all, but thanks.

Dont worry about what?

jjazmin
11-20-2006, 09:22 AM
hey sean..on your suspension setup..u got koni yellows and eibach sportlines or what..can i see some side shots..and how low is your drop.thanks!

Sean
11-20-2006, 09:32 AM
Eibach Prokit Springs
Koni Sport Struts Adjustable
Adrian's Converted Rear Struts
Two's R Us Uprated Swaybar EndLinks
New Tie Rods, Ball joints
Suspension Tech Rear Sway Bar
Whiteline Camber Bolts
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/1/2/P4070017_518737.jpg
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/1/2/P2270080.JPG


More in my gallery:
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/browseimages.php?c=3&userid=12

ciento44
11-20-2006, 06:36 PM
The most hp out of a n/a 5s was 149.something in a MR2.


I thought Jim Snodgrass hit a bit higher than that... :(

91 celica st
11-20-2006, 06:49 PM
it was 147 WHP

burnyd
11-20-2006, 06:57 PM
I don't know about that. I'm sure if you put some high comp pistons in the 5s and ran the same compression ratio as a 2zz the 5s would hold its own. Torque wise the 2zz sucks.


well its all for top end. Its an awesome motor. I dont feel the head design on the 5sfe makes it a very good motor. Just my opinion.

burnyd
11-20-2006, 06:58 PM
electronic fuel injection, hmm, thought the E was for economy, meh, guess I'm wrong.

Have any verification?

What is your background anyways? Your a mystery man, start up a thread in the multi section, would love to see some pics of your cars and your background in mechanics.


yupp e = fuel injection


22r = 22r motor in older toyota trucks
22re = fuel injection motors.

Fuelish
11-20-2006, 07:08 PM
the motor in the 7th gens is like 343448938439493x better than a 5sfe. Yeah but .... the 5th gens are nicer looking, at least imho....the last generation were "sharp," but I likey my 5th g ...... much "shmoother" :cool:

ciento44
11-20-2006, 07:12 PM
it was 147 WHP


Man... that's kinda weaksauce, now that i think about it. :(

85gtsblackman
11-20-2006, 07:20 PM
damn i need to build the 22re but at the same time i want a 5vzfe :hehe:

burnyd
11-20-2006, 07:38 PM
Yeah but .... the 5th gens are nicer looking, at least imho....the last generation were "sharp," but I likey my 5th g ...... much "shmoother" :cool:


eh I duno... gts's 5th gen I still love but the 7th gens are just too girly.

Colossus20v
11-20-2006, 08:27 PM
Yeah but the E in the 5sfe is for economy, its the head that holds the 5s back so much. Low peak torque, is not good for high winding HP.
F stands for the economy part of the engine code.

91 celica st
11-20-2006, 08:46 PM
f stands for the head type witch is econemy head
g stands for the head type witch is performance

Sean
11-20-2006, 08:46 PM
lol, okay guys, we cleared that up 10 posts ago, thanks.

Also, dont discredit 147whp, thats aboslutely NUTS, almost around 180 Flywheel HP which is a huge jump in power for that engine.

Cavanagh
11-20-2006, 09:56 PM
In case you didnt know sean,
F stands for the head type which is econemy head
G stands for the head type which is performance

:hehe:

GT-S 7th gen all day.

ciento44
11-20-2006, 09:59 PM
In case you didnt know sean,
F stands for the head type which is econemy head
G stands for the head type which is performance

:hehe:

GT-S 7th gen all day.


BAN HIM!!!

Hahaha, i'll finally be online again tonite d00d.

Sean
11-21-2006, 12:37 AM
So wait, whats the E again?

I knew economy was part of the acronym, and economy is infact what you get.

ciento44
11-21-2006, 12:48 AM
So wait, whats the E again?

I knew economy was part of the acronym, and economy is infact what you get.


E is for Ecstasy!!!

Morwan
11-21-2006, 12:57 AM
7th gen would win. The 7th gen is 500 lbs lighter, has a more powerful engine, and has better gearing. To achieve the same power/weight ratio, a 5th gen would need 200 crank horsepower. Good luck getting that out of a 5SFE.


In case you didnt know sean,
F stands for the head type which is economy head
G stands for the head type which is performance
If you want to be specific:
F heads have narrow valve angles (usually gives better torque)
G heads have wide valve angles (usually gives better top end power)

Otherwise, the 2GR-FSE would be an economy engine.
2 = Gen 2
GR = GR Engine
F = Narrow valve angle
S = Direct injected
E = Electronic fuel injection

EDIT: Beaten like a dead horse.

VikingJZ
11-21-2006, 01:02 AM
E is for Ethel.

Umm yeah and lots of girls do drive seventh gens....just look for a lei in the window.


And a slushbox

91 celica st
11-21-2006, 01:23 AM
7th gen would win. The 7th gen is 500 lbs lighter, has a more powerful engine, and has better gearing. To achieve the same power/weight ratio, a 5th gen would need 200 crank horsepower. Good luck getting that out of a 5SFE.


If you want to be specific:
F heads have narrow valve angles (usually gives better torque)
G heads have wide valve angles (usually gives better top end power)

Otherwise, the 2GR-FSE would be an economy engine.
2 = Gen 2
GR = GR Engine
F = Narrow valve angle
S = Direct injected
E = Electronic fuel inhttp://www.celicatech.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=242788#
Decrease Sizejection

EDIT: Beaten like a dead horse.


you mean 200-350 pounds lighter

http://toyotacelicaonline.com/5thgen2.htm
http://toyotacelicaonline.com/7thgen2.htm

ciento44
11-21-2006, 01:34 AM
you mean 200-350 pounds lighter

http://toyotacelicaonline.com/5thgen2.htm
http://toyotacelicaonline.com/7thgen2.htm


"(90-91)AllTrac:3272
(92-93)AllTrac:3218
(90-91)GT-S:2804
(92-93)GT-S:2943"

"Weight GT GT-S
Manual Transmission 2425 2500
Auto Transmission 2460 2580
Max Tow weight 2000 2000 "

Nah, he's good. :)

91 celica st
11-21-2006, 02:33 AM
"(90-91)AllTrac:3272
(92-93)AllTrac:3218
(90-91)GT-S:2804
(92-93)GT-S:2943"

"Weight GT GT-S
Manual Transmission 2425 2500
Auto Transmission 2460 2580
Max Tow weight 2000 2000 "

Nah, he's good. :)
lol you post the weight of the 5th gen to the manual tranny GT...

(90-91)GT-S:2804
(92-93)GT-S:2943

(00-05)GT-S:2500

404, and 443 respectivly
i looked at gt liftback on accident

ciento44
11-21-2006, 03:24 AM
lol you post the weight of the 5th gen to the manual tranny GT...

(90-91)GT-S:2804
(92-93)GT-S:2943

(00-05)GT-S:2500

404, and 443 respectivly
i looked at gt liftback on accident


Yeah, that's what i figured. :P

He's got a 92 gt-s, so around 450, depending on trim level.

andy
11-21-2006, 07:57 AM
ive raced my friends 7th gen gts at the track alot, he owns me after the 60 foot mark, as soon as lift hits that thing is gone. no stock non boosted 5s can touch that, with out gas that is. hehe

KoreanJoey
11-21-2006, 08:22 AM
5=revision
s=engine type (block)
f=econemmy/head
e=fuel injection


hence 22R and 22RE, thats why its club4ag.com and not club4age.com becuase theres a carb verision on the 4age and its a 4agm, hence the no E cuz its not fuel injected....hope that clears it up

It's a 4AC that's carburated... at least that's the SR5 AE86 motor.

TheNefariousOne
11-21-2006, 09:46 PM
4AG is carburated as well...4AC is the predecessor to the 4AG.

91 celica st
11-21-2006, 10:19 PM
^what he said

KoreanJoey
11-21-2006, 10:38 PM
werd... never seen one... but anyways back on topic 7th Gen is faster than a 5SFE... and 147fwhp is a 42HP increase over stock, which is pretty substantial.

tankd0g
11-21-2006, 10:52 PM
So why hasn't anyone put the 3S-GE head on the 3SFE or 5SFE?

ciento44
11-21-2006, 11:18 PM
So why hasn't anyone put the 3S-GE head on the 3SFE or 5SFE?

They have....

"5sge"

91 celica st
11-21-2006, 11:51 PM
So why hasn't anyone put the 3S-GE head on the 3SFE or 5SFE?
lol....a 3s-ge head ona a 3s-fe makes it a!!!!!!!!!.........

3s-ge

burnyd
11-22-2006, 12:31 AM
So why hasn't anyone put the 3S-GE head on the 3SFE or 5SFE?


because an na high reving celica would be r-tarded.

ciento44
11-22-2006, 02:19 AM
lol, okay guys, we cleared that up 10 posts ago, thanks.

Also, dont discredit 147whp, thats aboslutely NUTS, almost around 180 Flywheel HP which is a huge jump in power for that engine.


It is a huge jump in power... but still weaksauce when compared to a B20vtec that i've seen in person make over 260whp.... Yes. WHP.

KoreanJoey
11-22-2006, 03:12 AM
because an na high reving celica would be r-tarded.

Hey... go die... :(

alltracman78
11-22-2006, 04:02 AM
Keep this on topic.
No flaming.

andy
11-22-2006, 08:19 AM
search some of the mr2 forums for that stuff, they have been playing alot more with the 5sge than us.

tankd0g
11-22-2006, 03:34 PM
lol....a 3s-ge head ona a 3s-fe makes it a!!!!!!!!!.........

3s-ge


Shipping and swaping heads is a lot easier than doing motors. Are they just a bolt on swap or is the timing belt setup and everything different?

tankd0g
11-22-2006, 03:35 PM
because an na high reving celica would be r-tarded.

They come with GEs in other DMs don't they?

Morwan
11-23-2006, 08:53 PM
Shipping and swaping heads is a lot easier than doing motors. Are they just a bolt on swap or is the timing belt setup and everything different?
It's been done before with the 5S-FE, but it doesn't work as well as you'd think it would. The 5S-FE bottom end stops making power around 6k, which is where the 3S-GE head starts to shine. It's a slight upgrade, but it's not going to work nearly as well as a real 3S-GE.

Run a search for 5SGE on the forums, it's been discussed plenty of times.

tankd0g
11-23-2006, 08:57 PM
It's been done before with the 5S-FE, but it doesn't work as well as you'd think it would. The 5S-FE bottom end stops making power around 6k, which is where the 3S-GE head starts to shine. It's a slight upgrade, but it's not going to work nearly as well as a real 3S-GE.

Run a search for 5SGE on the forums, it's been discussed plenty of times.

Actually I was thinking more about doing it on my 3S-FE in my Rav4. The valve seals are leaking and it's a pile of money to fix them, but to take that motor out and replace it with a 3S-GE, I don't know if that's even possible with the Rav4 transmission, so a head transplant would be ideal (assuming the GE didn't have valve stem seal problems too!). I'll see what I can dig up on it. Probably requires a GE ecu to work also.

Kingsoup
11-27-2006, 08:09 PM
The 5sfe is a good motor, excellent midrange torque, its a fine motor to drive around on everday, not great on gas but you know.

Its just not a great sporty motor, why the GTS never got a later gen 3SGE, cheap bastards at Toyota.