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zmile06
11-15-2006, 02:05 PM
Ok well umm... Like the topic says, is the 5afe better then the 4afe? its .1 liter less and produces less HP if i remmember correctly. But i also heard someone saying because of its light weight internals it produces more power. So someone fill me in whats the low down?

This would be swapped into a 93 toyota celica ST.

Also is it a direct swap? Does it matter what the engine comes out of? Thanks bye.

zmile06
11-15-2006, 02:28 PM
Oh also how do you identify a 5afe by looks? I think i might already have one in my car lol, is the noticable feature the fact the 4afe has a EFI-S and the 5afe has the EFI? Or does it not matter?

Mine says EFI so i was guessing its a 5afe or do i just need to upload pics and let the experts decide?

Cavanagh
11-15-2006, 02:57 PM
hah, WHat are you talking about? In your car you have a 4A-FE. A good swap over would be a 4AGE. Tell you about it more later.

90CelicaST
11-15-2006, 04:41 PM
Yes, the 5AFE is a direct swap into an ST. You will still have to use all wiring, brackets, etc from the 4AFE. There is no advantage of having a 5AFE over a 4AFE except for lower mileage. If you are looking performace, go 4AGE 20v(silver- or black-top), 4AGZE(supercharged), or 3SGTE(not so easy, but not uber hard either).

85gtsblackman
11-15-2006, 04:49 PM
i had a 5afe in my 91

it made less power and torque than the 4a, its exactly the same looking as a 4afe

basicly the motor is plug and play but, it sucks

mine had 40k on it supposedly and 2 months later crankshaft fucked up

i went back to a 62k 4afe, its still going with over 100k on it, 4a has more power

4afe >5afe

zmile06
11-15-2006, 05:06 PM
You made this (http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21012) post

the 4afe in a 93 toyota celica produces 103 horse power... The 5afe acording to your post produces 104...

And i know what engine BELONGS in my car, this is the second engine and i was not the one that put the second engine in the car.

91 celica st
11-15-2006, 07:14 PM
yes it does make more power but not when using 87 octane us gas (using 5afe block and head and wiring harness) becuase the secu is tuned for jap gas

and it dosent make as much when using the 5afe block and 4afe head either due to smog shit...but it does make more power technically.

zmile06
11-16-2006, 12:42 AM
I'm pretty sure my car dosent have a 4afe on it... And i have coke build up and losing a quart of oil a month im pretty sure a 5afe would be a big improvement.

Wouldnt getting it tuned fix all the problems? What about using the 5afe automatic transmission with it (which i have an automatic anyways...)

Would having it tuned do much? I'm not going for performence but i want it to work well...

Cavanagh
11-16-2006, 01:14 AM
Then why not just grab another 4AFE?

Murgatroy
11-16-2006, 05:16 AM
Because those aren't a dime a dozen on Ebay.

If your car is originally a USDM Celica, it has a 4AFE. Not a 5AFE. The engines look identical. If you can get a 5AFE cheap, go for it, but don't expect miracles. It will have fewer miles on it, and as thus be more reliable, but it isn't gonna give you awesome performance or anything else. If anything, you won't be able to tell a difference between it and your 4AFE.

zmile06
11-16-2006, 01:22 PM
I can get a 5afe shipped for 375 to my door. A buisness in california has imported for 17 years and they are good at what they do.

I'm not intresting in performence i thought that was extreamly obvious. A 5afe is cheaper and slighty more performence (i dont wana downgrade even if its like 1 horse power).

It will also be more reliable then a junkyard engine, an import engine from the right importer will have been tested in japan even before shipping. It will also of been drained of oil etc. So it wont have coke build up from sitting in a junkyard car waiting for someone to buy it.

I want this engine to be a solid engine and the same performence that is it. I'm switching this out because my current engine has coke build up and id rather replace the engine then spend 1300 on having someone rebuild my engine for me.

Instead of suggesting its cheap a typical e-bay engine and repeating the same thing over and over again say something that will help me.

Answer my simple questions: will tuning do much for MPG or performence.

And if you read Murgatroy its not the original engine. Sorry but im sick of repeating myself when you could of read it correctly the first time. I did not replace the engine and the 5afe is cheaper, more relaible, and just better.

There has to be some way to identify it. The engine stock for my car should have a red top right? Mine isnt red... They also say EFI-S, mine says EFI. Those are some diffrences, and knowing toyota they mean something.

T-spoon
11-16-2006, 06:37 PM
I can get a 5afe shipped for 375 to my door. A buisness in california has imported for 17 years and they are good at what they do.

I'm not intresting in performence i thought that was extreamly obvious. A 5afe is cheaper and slighty more performence (i dont wana downgrade even if its like 1 horse power).

It will also be more reliable then a junkyard engine, an import engine from the right importer will have been tested in japan even before shipping. It will also of been drained of oil etc. So it wont have coke build up from sitting in a junkyard car waiting for someone to buy it.

I want this engine to be a solid engine and the same performence that is it. I'm switching this out because my current engine has coke build up and id rather replace the engine then spend 1300 on having someone rebuild my engine for me.

Instead of suggesting its cheap a typical e-bay engine and repeating the same thing over and over again say something that will help me.

Answer my simple questions: will tuning do much for MPG or performence.

And if you read Murgatroy its not the original engine. Sorry but im sick of repeating myself when you could of read it correctly the first time. I did not replace the engine and the 5afe is cheaper, more relaible, and just better.

There has to be some way to identify it. The engine stock for my car should have a red top right? Mine isnt red... They also say EFI-S, mine says EFI. Those are some diffrences, and knowing toyota they mean something.

Wow. You're really demanding. That's rude. As has been said, you can swap in a 5AFE if you want. I imagine you'll need the ECU also etc. etc. like any engine swap that changes the engine. If your car is US it does not have a 5AFE in it so it would be a swap that changed the engine. It should not have less power than the 4afe. The fe headed engines are tuned to maximize emissions quality and MPG, tuning will not improve that much. Tuning to increase performance will likely decrease the former. I'm unclear as to what hasn't been answered?

Cavanagh
11-16-2006, 06:50 PM
There has to be some way to identify it. The engine stock for my car should have a red top right? Mine i snt red...They also say EFI-S, mine says EFI. Those are some diffrences, and knowing toyota they mean something.


The engine stock for my car should have a red top right? Mine i snt red...
LMAO.....MY 4AFE isnt red


They also say EFI-S, mine says EFI.

Once again, mine only says EFI.

Get a picture....lol i bet you have a 4afe cause 4afes dont say EFI-S or are red. :brick:

Playfortoday
11-16-2006, 07:36 PM
Attn: zmile06

Please stop with the attitude.

1) More people will be likely to drop by this thread and help you if you were so damn demanding.

2) If you think the help that you are getting from this site is falling short, by all means try another Celica site. You WILL NOT find a resource filled with as many people that are knowledgeable and kind-hearted as here.

3) Try dropping the attitude, compose your questions coherently, and wait patiently for an answer.

4) If you don't get an answer quick enough or an answer that is to your liking(let's be reasonable here), then:
a) PM a mod or admin who can get you the help you need, or
b) Come to the conclusion that it may be the the source of the question that is the problem here.

All I know is you make me not want to help you. Bottom line is that the 5afe is not a popular or well-known engine. I have owned many Celica's (4 different generations) since the 80's, and I actually never heard of the 5AFE until now. Relax, many rephrase, and have fun. Help people help you.

You might want to request to have this moved by a mod to the 5th gen forum or maint.

Trance4c
11-16-2006, 07:44 PM
I think your all a bunch of sensitive women.. all he ever said was 'I know what engine BELONGS in my car' boo freakin hoo.. we all can't take a bit of CAPS AROUND HERE?

:Ban1:


Na, seriously.. good questions, good answers.

Good luck.

85gtsblackman
11-16-2006, 08:00 PM
5afe is a bolt on plug and play replacement for the 4afe

i used the 4a computer on mine, but i also used the 4a intake and exaust manifolds as well as the dizzy

but this was due to i got a long block

zmile06
11-16-2006, 08:43 PM
I'm not trying to be a jerk but i do get tired of people point out the same thing over and over. I want help not someone telling me its a e-bay dime a dozen engine.

This is site is obviously the best for celica owners, im not even going to dispute that. I just get sick of people cluttering a thread with pointless information that has already been said.

I said it is not the original engine, since the 5afe is probable 300 dollars less then a junkyard 4afe why wouldnt someone of done it previously?

I know what comes stock in a US celica, i even know the weight of my car and the height of the rear seating. I said in my very first post saying the 5afe might of been (swapped) into my celica. I'm not trying to put anyone down, but i also feel its pointless to give me information that has been said 2-3 times before in the same thread.

The guy im talking to has been importing for 17 years and uses a specific 5afe engine for the 5th generation celicas. The engine has a red top and some other diffrences, he told me the 93 celica uses the older style 5afe engine. The 6th generation celicas use a later model 5afe engine acording to him.

I'm just hoping to recive feedback on the swap, what i should look out for. And any problems i might recive.

91stxman: you said if i use the longblock 5afe it will be direct nothing needed such as ECU? Who did you use when buying the engine? And what did you tell him you wanted just a long block 5afe for a 5th generation celica?

Thanks.

Cavanagh
11-17-2006, 12:48 AM
The engine has a red top and some other diffrences, he told me the 93 celica uses the older style 5afe engine. The 6th generation celicas use a later model 5afe engine acording to him.


Well, your 17 years of engine importer guy is wrong, the 6th gen celica STs had the 7A-FE. And i swear you have a 4afe, everything you have mentioned has the charactristics of a 4afe.

91 celica st
11-17-2006, 01:35 AM
90-93 celica st=4afe
94-99 celica st=7afe

theres nothing else in america, thats how it is, your mmechanic is mistaken

5afe is a japanese 4afe, its destroked and has no smog eqquipment, so if u live in a smog equipped zone (i.e. california) you will not ass smog with this engine

zmile06
11-18-2006, 02:34 AM
Well, your 17 years of engine importer guy is wrong, the 6th gen celica STs had the 7A-FE. And i swear you have a 4afe, everything you have mentioned has the charactristics of a 4afe.

Hehe this is confusion, i know the 6th generation has the 7afe. He was saying the later edition 5afe's would go with the 6th generations. But the earlier 5afe's went with the 5th generation celicas. Some people belive it or not put a 5afe in a 6th generation celica.

Ill take some pictures of the engine when i am able.

zmile06
11-18-2006, 02:40 AM
90-93 celica st=4afe
94-99 celica st=7afe

theres nothing else in america, thats how it is, your mmechanic is mistaken

5afe is a japanese 4afe, its destroked and has no smog eqquipment, so if u live in a smog equipped zone (i.e. california) you will not ass smog with this engine

I live in ohio there are no e-checks anymore. I have put way over 1,500 in my celica ST im just wanting to make the smart decision on what engine goes in my car.

And some people might ask why i dont just do a engine swap if i am spending so much money on a slow celica. The simple answer to this is its a daily driver... I bought the ST for a reliable, nice, and good looking daily driver.

Most my stuff is just nice extras like lowering the celica, new struts, alarm system with power locks and remote start, tinted windows, rims, tires, and of course babying it with wax and other routine stuff. And i had a full exhaust done with a cat delete 2.25 inch piping. I would rather do all this stuff to my car and make it the perfect daily driver then have a engine swap on the only car i have.

91 celica st
11-18-2006, 04:09 AM
Good choice, my st is my DD as well, but i ened up turboing it....actualy i might be selling my new turbo setup soon if this deal for an alltrack goes through, pm me if ur interested

and yes sts are nice DD's

elektrateq
11-18-2006, 08:23 PM
If your importer thinks 5a ever came in an american ceilca he doesnt know shit. He may have seen 5a's in them.. but they are JDM imports.

zmile06 does have some good wuestion that I wish I could get the answer to also. I have a 5a in mine, and my old 4a went to my friend who swapped them for me. I've been woning what kind of 4a/5a hybrid was possible and if a better performing engine was producable since i happen to have access to both for cheap. So before anyone suggest it, this is why i'm not interested in ge's, s series engines, or any other swaps.


$$$CASH MONEY$$$

So the 5a has less emission shit on it? Does Japan care less about emission since they are on an island?

zmile06
11-19-2006, 05:19 PM
It dosent have to do with the fact there an island its just the laws they have in place. I mean its a diffrent country just diffrent laws...

the 5afe is basically the 4afe except a few diffrences like .1 liter and lighter internals i belive. If you want to get some more power out of it you can get engine worked done. Have your enigne drilled to have over-sized pistons-rings or whatever. That will give you a decent amount of power for not much money if you do it right.

In all honesty i wouldnt switch the internals of the 4afe and the 5afe, there almost the same thing and you would just run into a million problems doing it.

Get an exhaust and headers done that way if your engine goes bad you still have the little extra performence without having to get the new engine done to the previous specs.

I thought there would be a kit to enchance the internals of the 4afe-5afe block but i cant find any. Usualy there are rebuild kits to improve a engine over stock specs but oh well.

Dont get the 5afe if you have emission checking, otherwise just a huge waste of money. You will have to get emissions made for the engine or find a loop hole.

My question is will the 5afe ECU make the engine perform better or is it just the same as the 4afe ECU or will i not even notice.

elektrateq
11-20-2006, 06:17 PM
so in summary the differences are...

4afe:
1.6L
higher emission controls which drains some power
uses more gas

5afe:
1.5L
JDM spec emission so it has less power drain
lighter internals for even less power loss
uses less gas

Both result in about the same amount of power with the 4a just slightly ahead (assuming you rebuild or get a low mileage one)

So you could put put a 5a head and internals onto a 4a block (or bore out the 5a block). I'm not an expert on modifying engines, but i would like to learn so.... if u bore out a block you are increasing the stroke? could u use 4a rods with 5a pistons to accomodate the bore? Get custom rods/pistons (if that's even an economically viable option for this low cost kind of speculation)?

85gtsblackman
11-20-2006, 06:41 PM
yes u can put a 5a head on a 4a block, i ported and polished mine cause i ended up with another blown 5a from a friend i was gonna rebuild but i just used the head and scrapped the block

btw his supposedly low milage 5a had same crank problem as mine, lasted a few months and boom


id be weary about this engine

nother option is just keep the 4a and rebuild it

u keep saying u have coke build up, wtf ,do u mean sludge?

to lighten things up put a lightweight flywheel on it, twas what i did

other option would be is to find a 7a block and put your 4a head on it, more displacement , lil more power and plug and play

lighter internals isnt always better, my 22re has heavy internals but that bish will last 500,000 miles

oh and my 5a never seemed any more rev happy than my 4a

also i dunno if they put lighter interals in there or the engine was much differnt, mine wasnt, i tore a 5a and 2 4a's apart, no differnce, though mine did have an egr port 5a, but i was given the option of egr or no egr at the time i said yes egr


only diffence was the black says 5a and the vavle cover said 1500 on it

elektrateq
11-20-2006, 10:04 PM
Better keep that harmonic balancer in place...

Yea, I wouldn't mind pickin a blown 7a somewhere... or while were at it, a 4age :).

zmile06
11-22-2006, 11:28 PM
coke build up = sludge why did you ask if you knew the answer?

Where did you buy the 5afe from?

zmile06
11-22-2006, 11:50 PM
yes u can put a 5a head on a 4a block, i ported and polished mine cause i ended up with another blown 5a from a friend i was gonna rebuild but i just used the head and scrapped the block

btw his supposedly low milage 5a had same crank problem as mine, lasted a few months and boom


id be weary about this engine

nother option is just keep the 4a and rebuild it

u keep saying u have coke build up, wtf ,do u mean sludge?

to lighten things up put a lightweight flywheel on it, twas what i did

other option would be is to find a 7a block and put your 4a head on it, more displacement , lil more power and plug and play

lighter internals isnt always better, my 22re has heavy internals but that bish will last 500,000 miles

oh and my 5a never seemed any more rev happy than my 4a

also i dunno if they put lighter interals in there or the engine was much differnt, mine wasnt, i tore a 5a and 2 4a's apart, no differnce, though mine did have an egr port 5a, but i was given the option of egr or no egr at the time i said yes egr


only diffence was the black says 5a and the vavle cover said 1500 on it
I dont want to put a engine in my celica and have it blown up (obviously, can you elaborate on your situation please. Did you replace the front and rear main seals, there rubber so they do tend to fall apart when the engine is out of use for 8 months or more. Did you leak any oil at all, what do you think caused the problem? Are there any tests to check the crank? I honestly have been researching the 5afe for over a year and i havent heard of many problems with them.

Trust me i would LOVE to have a rebuilt 4afe, problem is i dont have the tools or the room let alone the money to do it myself. And having someone else do it would cost me out the butt.

If i can pick up another job ill just have someone else rebuild it and drop it for me.

And do you have any tricks to check for oil leaks? I havent dripped an ounce of oil that i have noticed since i have had the car. And trust me i look for oil leaks constantly. I have noticed my oil pan constantly has oil all over it, but i thought that was normal since it was an oil pan... Do 5th gen celicas leak around the oil pan alot or is it just something you expect?

Chargerjon
12-03-2008, 01:50 AM
the easiest thing that you could do to find out about your engine is look on the engine id plate

andy
12-03-2008, 01:58 AM
holy two years old !! look at that date man!