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View Full Version : Question about honda vs. halftrack.



Atticus
10-12-2006, 05:44 AM
Okay I have a friend who has become a little cocky and he claims that he will beat me when he is done with his car and i'm done with my 5th gen halftrac.. his 1992 hatchback honda civic (non Si) will have an Acura Integra b18c GSR motor with an upgraded throttle body, clutch, AEM cam gears and that's it i think.. His engine has been Dyno'd because it was the same engine he had on his Civic Si he used to have. he says his swapped hatch will beat my swapped celica with FMIC, clutch, and flywheel. I don't really know if he will "destroy" me like he says since the 3S-GTE has 200+ HP with turbo when his engine has 200+ all motor.. But i do understand that his car is lighter. I just want to make sure wut the results in this race would be. Just because most of us on these forums don't like honda cars dont say a celica would be it if it won't. Be honest please. Thanks.

Colossus20v
10-12-2006, 05:47 AM
depends on the drivers for sure. This should be moved to the racing forum.

He may have better throttle response because he doesnt really have to wait for a turbo to spool. But I do not think you would get beat real bad. It also depends on what type of race your talking about. Drag? Circuit? Autocross? Do you have any suspension work done as well? Like I said when your both putting out close numbers and weigh around the same then it really just depends on the driver.

ciento44
10-12-2006, 05:54 AM
He'll run around a mid 14 at the strip. As would probably you.

From a roll on, you'd probably beat him. And if you don't... so what? Up the boost, try again. He doesn't have that option.

burnyd
10-12-2006, 05:57 AM
it would be a pretty damn close race.... from a roll you will win hands down being turbo and all. but @ 15psi on a ct26 it would be pretty close.

Atticus
10-12-2006, 06:00 AM
So pretty much at a dig he'll beat me with stock boost and all.. no suspension and yes its drag race. also, wouldnt i need to uprade a lot on my car by upping the PSI to 15??

tankd0g
10-12-2006, 06:01 AM
They thing about Hondas is, when they dyno at 200 hp, it's at about 6 million RPM, and they read about 60hp until they get there. I'd crank the turbo up and put some octane booster in just in case tho, lol

Atticus
10-12-2006, 06:02 AM
damn so it really does look like the honda will beat me huh... damn it. i guess hes right..

burnyd
10-12-2006, 06:05 AM
So pretty much at a dig he'll beat me with stock boost and all.. no suspension and yes its drag race. also, wouldnt i need to uprade a lot on my car by upping the PSI to 15??


It depends on how you drive honestly... it also depends on what mods you have to your car... Im hoping you say downpipe + 3" exhaust... but if you dont you can always just gut the cat if your really doing your own work. But yah I meen it depends I destroyed my buddies integra with the same swap with similar work done with my mr2 at 9psi and the best I did at the track that day was 14.5. When I say I destroyed him I ment I got him back from a 40 mile an hour roll like by a couple of cars. but his best time is around 14.6.

But anyway getting back to racing. Yah even if you do go ahead and beat him there will always be another one of your friends who will want to race and lose. Its really tough about it. Just remember there are all kinds of people that are also better not just to swap the car but becasue you like it. It has nothing to do with beating people only that you are swapping your car for your enjoyment.

burnyd
10-12-2006, 06:06 AM
They thing about Hondas is, when they dyno at 200 hp, it's at about 6 million RPM, and they read about 60hp until they get there. I'd crank the turbo up and put some octane booster in just in case tho, lol


crank the turbo up hrrrmmmmm... you meen boost wise... and octane booster does next to nothing.. better off filling up with 94.

tankd0g
10-12-2006, 06:10 AM
crank the turbo up hrrrmmmmm... you meen boost wise... and octane booster does next to nothing.. better off filling up with 94.
Yes and why not use both? :)

burnyd
10-12-2006, 06:11 AM
Yes and why not use both? :)


because its a waste of 6 dollars it does nothing.

Atticus
10-12-2006, 06:15 AM
It depends on how you drive honestly... it also depends on what mods you have to your car... Im hoping you say downpipe + 3" exhaust... but if you dont you can always just gut the cat if your really doing your own work. But yah I meen it depends I destroyed my buddies integra with the same swap with similar work done with my mr2 at 9psi and the best I did at the track that day was 14.5. When I say I destroyed him I ment I got him back from a 40 mile an hour roll like by a couple of cars. but his best time is around 14.6.

But anyway getting back to racing. Yah even if you do go ahead and beat him there will always be another one of your friends who will want to race and lose. Its really tough about it. Just remember there are all kinds of people that are also better not just to swap the car but becasue you like it. It has nothing to do with beating people only that you are swapping your car for your enjoyment.
Yeah of corse i'm doing it for the enjoyment!! are u kidding me!! but the thing is he is too but it started to get to the point where we were both saying both our cars will haul ass but he started getting cocky as the honda owner he is its born naturally from him so i am just wondering who would win.

burnyd
10-12-2006, 06:17 AM
close race.

Atticus
10-12-2006, 06:19 AM
with stock psi or thats at 15?? wut if i build boost at a dig so that way i could pull on him. will i win then? or still lose at a stop?

burnyd
10-12-2006, 06:21 AM
with stock psi or thats at 15?? wut if i build boost at a dig so that way i could pull on him. will i win then? or still lose at a stop?


lol.. you cant build boost at a stop you have to be driving.... car has to make movement.... honestly drive the car around after your done swappng it and done. So Im guessing your not swapping it yourself?

Atticus
10-12-2006, 06:24 AM
yes i am. me and my dad are going to swap it and convert it to manual. im going to know my car inside out by the time im done with it.

insomnak8702
10-12-2006, 06:26 AM
i'm guessing you have a hatch also? or do you have a coupe?

Atticus
10-12-2006, 06:26 AM
a hatch 1990 Celica GTS.

burnyd
10-12-2006, 06:36 AM
yes i am. me and my dad are going to swap it and convert it to manual. im going to know my car inside out by the time im done with it.


good luck to you. If you have any swap questions let me know.

Atticus
10-12-2006, 06:40 AM
alright thanks. actually while u offered and im pretty sure its been covered in the forums but it looks like i dont have to search for it since u can probably asnwer it now.. here it goes.. im going to swap my car with an MR2 engine with LSD tranny.. i want to power the tranny but im sure i need to do something about my axels.. and that is..?? also any modification on the motor?? if u dont want to asnwer it its fine. ill search for it later.

burnyd
10-12-2006, 07:31 AM
alright thanks. actually while u offered and im pretty sure its been covered in the forums but it looks like i dont have to search for it since u can probably asnwer it now.. here it goes.. im going to swap my car with an MR2 engine with LSD tranny.. i want to power the tranny but im sure i need to do something about my axels.. and that is..?? also any modification on the motor?? if u dont want to asnwer it its fine. ill search for it later.


lol its a paint Im not going to lie I dont ever want to do another e153 swap.... but yah..


what clip do you have is it from a alltrac or a mr2?

91 celica st
10-12-2006, 08:12 AM
FYI a JDM b18c gsr motor only puts out 185 hp on japanese 100 octane, with those mods on shitty us 91 octane hes probably around 180 hp...at the crank, not even close to the 200+hp your putting out, and at 15 psi on 91 pump your probably putting out around 250 crank....

celica by at least a car, the powerband on b18c's is CRAP till 4000+ not to mention it only has 129 ft lbs of tq. u will RAPE him, besides, swapped dx cx hatches only run high 14's usually with mods (who swapps a stock enigne?) the only way youll loose is if hes a beter driver

aballz
10-12-2006, 09:16 AM
Better hope its not a cx, those things are like under 2000 pounds.

tankd0g
10-12-2006, 01:58 PM
because its a waste of 6 dollars it does nothing.

Well it's keeping my snomobile from exploding on pump gas :)

Atticus
10-12-2006, 03:45 PM
lol its a paint Im not going to lie I dont ever want to do another e153 swap.... but yah..


what clip do you have is it from a alltrac or a mr2?
I don't have it yet but it will be an MR2 Clip.. i think its a better idea because that way the tranny already comes with it and so do the axels which i think i will need.. hopefully. i want to make sure now before buying it. i also want to use the mr2 tranny because it has long gears which is better for a turbo powered car.

FYI a JDM b18c gsr motor only puts out 185 hp on japanese 100 octane, with those mods on shitty us 91 octane hes probably around 180 hp...at the crank, not even close to the 200+hp your putting out, and at 15 psi on 91 pump your probably putting out around 250 crank....

celica by at least a car, the powerband on b18c's is CRAP till 4000+ not to mention it only has 129 ft lbs of tq. u will RAPE him, besides, swapped dx cx hatches only run high 14's usually with mods (who swapps a stock enigne?) the only way youll loose is if hes a beter driver
I hope i do because if i do i will want to take a picture of his face after i beat him because he's more than 100% sure he'll beat me. The hatch is not a cx.. its something else that i forgot. His car weighs about 2,450 lbs. Hes not going to run A/C or Power steering.

Luis C
10-12-2006, 03:57 PM
Isnt the Celica around the 2.450 lbs figure also?

tankd0g
10-12-2006, 03:59 PM
Isnt the Celica around the 2.450 lbs figure also?

If he takes the motor out and doesn't replace it :)

Atticus
10-12-2006, 04:31 PM
Hahaha yeah. the celica weighs around 4,600 lbs. so there he has an advantage and the b18c is a 1.8 while the 3sgte is a 2.0.. so its heavier. oh and i forgot to mention that im getting light weight rims with tires (16's or 17's). ill have fun doing the swap but im reading that the e153 trans will be a pain along with the 3sgte from an mr2.. shitty.. looks like i will be spending more money on it. wouldnt it be better to just buy the alltrac motor without trans..? too bad i havnt seen one.

Colossus20v
10-12-2006, 06:22 PM
Hahaha yeah. the celica weighs around 4,600 lbs.
You have been misinformed. An alltrac doesnt even weight that much.

tankd0g
10-12-2006, 06:27 PM
Black holes don't weight that much! I think he meant 2600, but I think the hatch is more like 2700-2800lbs.

Dan3312
10-12-2006, 06:35 PM
Weight of a my 1990 GT-S is roughly 2800lbs.
You can built some boost stopped, however it's not overly healthy riding your clutch enough to do it. It is a good idea to have load on the drive train if you keep your s53 tranny.

Atticus
10-12-2006, 07:12 PM
I don't know about the s53 tranny because the gears are too short for a boosted car.. i mean why ride through the gears so fast that boost won't build as much as it can with longer gears like the e153 tranny.

GlHlOST
10-12-2006, 07:34 PM
ummmm Good luck findin the e153 with LSD to come with a MR2 clip... Its hard enough findin it by itself

ciento44
10-12-2006, 07:38 PM
ummmm Good luck findin the e153 with LSD to come with a MR2 clip... Its hard enough findin it by itself


It's MUCH easier to find it with the MR2 clip than it is to find it by itself. There's a bunch of them on ebay right now.

Granted, you're going to pay like $1500 more than you would for an AllTrac clip, but still, they're out there.

Luis C
10-12-2006, 09:02 PM
Hahaha yeah. the celica weighs around 4,600 lbs. .

Check your facts. The GT-i weighs 1.220 Kgs thats around 2.645 lbs, Colossus20v said it, not even the GT4 weighs 4.000 lbs

burnyd
10-12-2006, 09:23 PM
Hahaha yeah. the celica weighs around 4,600 lbs. so there he has an advantage and the b18c is a 1.8 while the 3sgte is a 2.0.. so its heavier. oh and i forgot to mention that im getting light weight rims with tires (16's or 17's). ill have fun doing the swap but im reading that the e153 trans will be a pain along with the 3sgte from an mr2.. shitty.. looks like i will be spending more money on it. wouldnt it be better to just buy the alltrac motor without trans..? too bad i havnt seen one.


celica weighs in under 3k. Alot less under 3k.

Doesnt matter about displacement.

Yes it is a pain to swap that trans

Just buy a alltrac clip its the easiest thing you can do imho.

burnyd
10-12-2006, 09:24 PM
Weight of a my 1990 GT-S is roughly 2800lbs.
You can built some boost stopped, however it's not overly healthy riding your clutch enough to do it. It is a good idea to have load on the drive train if you keep your s53 tranny.


you cant get out of vac while stopped. Your car has to be moving. You could throw your car up on a lift and try to boost it up on a lift with your foot on the gas at 3k rpms and it still wont really boost. Car has to be moving.

burnyd
10-12-2006, 09:32 PM
Heres what I would do if I was in your shoes... I meen honestly heres exactly what I would do. This is exactly what I would of done with my car (my old 6gc celica) If I knew what I knew now about swapping a 3sgte in a fwd celica.

I would of bought a alltrac clip. They only go for under 2 grand now. Being where you live in arizona there should be tons of clip importers in california that freight shipping should not be too bad. Unfortunately where I live in Pittsburgh I have to get things from jarco and its usually a 500 dollar freight ship.

get a down pipe/clutch/have an exhaust made.
I would of went to the junkyard and bought a solara trans. Im not exactly sure which ones are really LSD or not. I know for a fact some of the v6 trans are LSD Its all the same trans when you think about it. There so similar. They all have similar gear ratios but pretty much on the outside its all the same damn transmission. they only problem when gettin the mr2 trans is it has to be converted to fwd. Its easy to do but all the parts from your dealer its going to cost you well over 300-400 dollars cant remember how much I spent on them but if you need the part numbers I can find them for you.

So anyway back on the trans. If you cant find a lsd one I would go to the junkyard find a solara v6 trans with 50k around there they usually go for 4-500 dollars. Get a LSD diff that will work with e153 inners. THe problem with the mr2 LSD trans is you need different lsd inners than the normal ones and they go for 350-400 a peice at the dealer and there i mpossible to find from mr2 owners that sell them. But if you go with a aftermarket LSD Diff the regular inner axles will work for you.

after you do all this your going to need the folowing for your 5th gen celica...
New clutch/PP Assuming you have the flywheel for a 3sgte
if you got the mr2 trans you will need the fwd converstion parts
Mr2 inners
Alltrac outers
your front trans mount from your gt will work you will need the alltrac mount for the top part and for the back trans mount you will need from an alltrac plus the cross member from an alltrac. You can get these from the dealer.

If you have any questions feel free to im me.

Atticus
10-13-2006, 06:24 PM
Wow.. ur right. as a matter of fact before i read wut you would do i talked to my buddies yesturday night about getting the alltrac clip, selling the trans and getting a v6 solora trans.. weird ahaha. plus i dont have to modify my engine to fit into my car like the mr2 would have been done. i'm getting a fidanza flywheel 7 or 10 lbs. umm.. wut else was i getting for my engine.. oh and an FMIC.. umm.. wut about a turbo timer? yeah i will need one. and its to my advantage because the alltrac engine clips or the engine itself are sooo cheap. i would use the alltrac mounts on my swap since they were actually built to hold the power from the engine unlike my GT ones which one of them is broken from the transmission so my car rattles and shakes a lot!! i hate it. also i still need to do a auto-manual conversion on it but while the engine is out it would be ideal to convert it then and there. Thanks a lot burnyD. i'm going to do that instead of causing headaches by dropping an MR2 tranny and engine in my car.

Atticus
10-13-2006, 06:26 PM
celica weighs in under 3k. Alot less under 3k.

Doesnt matter about displacement.

Yes it is a pain to swap that trans

Just buy a alltrac clip its the easiest thing you can do imho.
Shit wut the hell was i thinking... maybe a typo? i meant to say 2,600. my buddies civic weighs 2,400. plus my engine is a 2.0 and his is a 1.8. i forgot to mention that he has a vtech controller, a flywheel and an intake. the rest is pretty much stock. it will be a close race or if not he'll beat me from a dig. on a roll.. might be different results.. hopefully.

jakbauerctu
10-13-2006, 07:00 PM
to be honest, I dont think that he is pushing more than 185 hp. the stock gsr motor only has 170 hp. Intake/header will add at most 10 hp. if he has an exhaust and has the car tuned well he MIGHT make 190, but I doubt it.

GlHlOST
10-13-2006, 07:05 PM
I dunno why ppl hail VTec like its a turbo or sumthing... Electronic valve timing control... I thought alotta cars had electronic valve timing now, just not called VTec... How much extra power can you get out of electronic valve timing control??? Its like advancing the timing... It gives you some extra pep but nothing major. And what about the turbo timer??? wats the deal with these? If you dont have 1 couldnt you just sit with the car ideling until the turbo is done spooling down or watever?

BOBST165
10-13-2006, 07:15 PM
dont fear that honda good luck on the swap

Atticus
10-13-2006, 07:57 PM
yeah its funny but true because almost all my friends drive honda's with vtech and wow they like hail that thing like its the god inside their car. umm i'd rather have a turbo timer. i wont fear it but if i beat him ill have to race like 50 other honda owners until one beats me so they can say, " ha! a honda beat you.. get a honda."

burnyd
10-13-2006, 07:59 PM
Wow.. ur right. as a matter of fact before i read wut you would do i talked to my buddies yesturday night about getting the alltrac clip, selling the trans and getting a v6 solora trans.. weird ahaha. plus i dont have to modify my engine to fit into my car like the mr2 would have been done. i'm getting a fidanza flywheel 7 or 10 lbs. umm.. wut else was i getting for my engine.. oh and an FMIC.. umm.. wut about a turbo timer? yeah i will need one. and its to my advantage because the alltrac engine clips or the engine itself are sooo cheap. i would use the alltrac mounts on my swap since they were actually built to hold the power from the engine unlike my GT ones which one of them is broken from the transmission so my car rattles and shakes a lot!! i hate it. also i still need to do a auto-manual conversion on it but while the engine is out it would be ideal to convert it then and there. Thanks a lot burnyD. i'm going to do that instead of causing headaches by dropping an MR2 tranny and engine in my car.


actually if you buy the clip you should have all the alltrac mounts and cross member everything... thats something I never even thought of plus youll have the alltrac outers.. if its a 40k mile engine I would just keep the outers...

all you would need is the mr2 turbo inners.. that makes things SOOO much easier.

eh no reason really to get a lightened flywheel unless your looking to launch it drag racing. Invest the money into a spec clutch. Most of the clips I have looked at usually have not so good clutches. Being that in Japan its all stop and go driving.

GlHlOST
10-13-2006, 08:00 PM
Im not too sure about not fearing it... You already show doubt in your car by asking this question... You already lost the race. A true racer shows no doubt in his car nor does his car doubt him. The only thing that should be in question is "how much will I win by"

Atticus
10-13-2006, 08:02 PM
Wait.. so im still going to need the mr2 inners for a v6 solora tranny? im a little confused. umm.. should i keep the alltrac outers instead of the stock ones from my gt-s? im getting a clutch plus flywheel so it really doesnt matter.

Atticus
10-13-2006, 08:06 PM
Yeah but that honda will be putting almost 200HP plus its lighter. i do have a turbo and will be putting down 200+ HP but the thing is that i've seen so many hatches beat a lot of cars and just listening to these guys conversations it all is about the hatch going to kill a lot of people and this friend has always been right with a lot of things and he says he'll beat me well maybe he will but i still have confidence in beating him. it was just a question since most people on these forums have halftracs so they should know its potential and could answer my question.

GlHlOST
10-13-2006, 08:15 PM
Wait.. so im still going to need the mr2 inners for a v6 solora tranny? im a little confused. umm.. should i keep the alltrac outers instead of the stock ones from my gt-s? im getting a clutch plus flywheel so it really doesnt matter.
DUDE!!!! I dunno bout the alltrac axels fitting in the v6 tranny but if your getting a v6 tranny then you dont need anything from an MR2. And I was jus messin witchya about the fear thing. But in all honesty, I'll be DAMNED if I ever even question myself as to wether I can beat a Honda. I'll be even MORE DAMNED if I ever lose to a Honda. F*ck that!

burnyd
10-13-2006, 08:45 PM
Im not too sure about not fearing it... You already show doubt in your car by asking this question... You already lost the race. A true racer shows no doubt in his car nor does his car doubt him. The only thing that should be in question is "how much will I win by"


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

burnyd
10-13-2006, 08:46 PM
DUDE!!!! I dunno bout the alltrac axels fitting in the v6 tranny but if your getting a v6 tranny then you dont need anything from an MR2. And I was jus messin witchya about the fear thing. But in all honesty, I'll be DAMNED if I ever even question myself as to wether I can beat a Honda. I'll be even MORE DAMNED if I ever lose to a Honda. F*ck that!


NO MR2 Inners ALLTRAC OUTERS.

vip09
10-13-2006, 08:47 PM
I dunno why ppl hail VTec like its a turbo or sumthing... Electronic valve timing control... I thought alotta cars had electronic valve timing now, just not called VTec... How much extra power can you get out of electronic valve timing control??? Its like advancing the timing... It gives you some extra pep but nothing major. And what about the turbo timer??? wats the deal with these? If you dont have 1 couldnt you just sit with the car ideling until the turbo is done spooling down or watever?

VTEC doesn't even have electronic variable valve timing. i-VTEC has the infinitely variable valve timing like Toyota's VVTL-i. VTEC has 2 different cam profiles, low and high. When you reach a certain RPM the high rpm camshaft lobe as activated. It's like having two sets of cams.

GlHlOST
10-13-2006, 08:55 PM
ooooo so VTEC doesnt stand for Valve Timing Electronic Control??? and I never said anything about variable as Im not too sure if that has to do with the VTEC system

burnyd
10-13-2006, 08:58 PM
ooooo so VTEC doesnt stand for Valve Timing Electronic Control??? and I never said anything about variable as Im not too sure if that has to do with the VTEC system


variable valve timing and lift electronic control

GlHlOST
10-13-2006, 08:58 PM
OK I see what your saying... I get it :slap:

Atticus
10-13-2006, 09:26 PM
DUDE!!!! I dunno bout the alltrac axels fitting in the v6 tranny but if your getting a v6 tranny then you dont need anything from an MR2. And I was jus messin witchya about the fear thing. But in all honesty, I'll be DAMNED if I ever even question myself as to wether I can beat a Honda. I'll be even MORE DAMNED if I ever lose to a Honda. F*ck that!

thats how i feel man. just making sure.. i dont want to lose lol

GlHlOST
10-13-2006, 10:13 PM
good... never lose that mentality, for, once you do, you will no longer be worthy of driving a Toyota!... lol j/k

well... maybe not

Atticus
10-13-2006, 10:24 PM
hahahaha calm down. nah i'll see wut happens.

angryyoungnpoor
10-14-2006, 06:57 PM
I don't really see what the arfument is here. You'll beat him at anything above 10 psi. you's spend 2 grand on a swap and on a gsr engine.. he's spending 3500+. Keep the s53 tranny. the gear ratios will keep your revs up and you have more power that way.

Cavanagh
10-14-2006, 07:36 PM
i still say driver is the most important thing outta this whole arguement.

Atticus
10-14-2006, 08:40 PM
actually i'd be spending about the same amount because of money as him because im getting a front clip which is about 2,500 and a few other mods to the car. but is it really recommended getting a front clip for my 90 celica? wouldnt everything match so i wouldnt really need a front clip?? besides its waaay cheaper that way... and then i dont have to sell the parts later on which would be a hasle for me and my father.

Luckynumber5
10-14-2006, 09:45 PM
If it makes you feel any better about racing this "200hp" GSR I raced a 93 integra gsr in my 93 v6 Camry and my bumper was ahead of his when I stopped at 70, wasnt his driving either, the powerband just sucks balls.

TEAMFaint
10-14-2006, 10:13 PM
3SGTE with 3" intake, 2.5" or 3" downpipe, 3" exhaust, 12-14 PSI CT26, upgraded clutch and lightweight flywheel, front mount intercooler, S53 transmission
Estimated whp = 220ish

vs

Civic Hatchie with GSR swap probably with 2.5" intake, header, 2.5" exhaust, upgraded clutch and lightweight flywheel.
Estimated whp = 185ish

Your Pros:
From roll, with right RPM, no spool time needed = easy win
More whp

Your Cons:
From dig, lack of traction, waiting for turbo spool, much heavier vehicle.

My Prediction:

If you guys raced 5 times @ the track, I would guess you would both win 2, and then there would obviously be a winner for the 5th race.

You'd be surprized how fast little civics can be, its almost gross.
Get better tires than him so you won't have to worry about too much loss of traction.

I'd say pretty equal races, I'll take the celi for the win though if you are the better driver.

GlHlOST
10-14-2006, 11:36 PM
3SGTE with 3" intake, 2.5" or 3" downpipe, 3" exhaust, 12-14 PSI CT26, upgraded clutch and lightweight flywheel, front mount intercooler, S53 transmission
Estimated whp = 220ish

vs

Civic Hatchie with GSR swap probably with 2.5" intake, header, 2.5" exhaust, upgraded clutch and lightweight flywheel.
Estimated whp = 185ish

Your Pros:
From roll, with right RPM, no spool time needed = easy win
More whp

Your Cons:
From dig, lack of traction, waiting for turbo spool, much heavier vehicle.

My Prediction:

If you guys raced 5 times @ the track, I would guess you would both win 2, and then there would obviously be a winner for the 5th race.

You'd be surprized how fast little civics can be, its almost gross.
Get better tires than him so you won't have to worry about too much loss of traction.

I'd say pretty equal races, I'll take the celi for the win though if you are the better driver.
Just a question, a little OT but, isnt there a 3sgte that comes with 225 stock?

ciento44
10-15-2006, 12:21 AM
Just a question, a little OT but, isnt there a 3sgte that comes with 225 stock?

225 crank HP... that' the one from the ST205 i think.

Atticus
10-15-2006, 12:56 AM
yeah its the ST205 which are a little expensive.

geebes
10-15-2006, 01:14 AM
Waste that motherfucker like it ain't no thang!!!!! 3sgte would dominate!

burnyd
10-15-2006, 01:29 AM
:slap:

mar_phi6
10-15-2006, 02:51 AM
Honda's suck ass anyways top end they would loose no power

Atticus
10-15-2006, 03:06 AM
He just gave me a call and said he's converting his car to Japan Spec honda.. i don't really know wut this means but he said its going to be faster than he though it would be so i'm guessing its going to add power. i have more torque than him so i might have a shot from a dig. I wonder wut would benefit me more.. a v6 solora e153 or the stock tranny (s53 with clutch and lightweight flywheel).

tankd0g
10-15-2006, 03:48 AM
Is this battle sponsered by Rice-A-Roni?

mar_phi6
10-15-2006, 03:53 AM
hahahah its so hilarious honda's are good cars but its all over the place...make me a shame that i raced honda on my 4afe and i just crack up cause i know I alway loose no matter what but when u see honda race evo , 240sx or even the 5th gts there not as powerful as they are if u modify them

Atticus
10-15-2006, 04:01 AM
Is this battle sponsered by Rice-A-Roni?

hahahahahhahahahahahaha!! no it's not. he hates ricers. he's not like any honda owners execpt for the cockiness. ohh.. hondas are a majority here where i live.. it's crazy. yeah they rev their hondas at anything that even appears to have an exhaust or a muffler tip but they get smoked by any car out of the ordinary that has been modified. but some hondas are fast.. others like many have said.. are ricers.

burnyd
10-15-2006, 04:21 AM
Honda's suck ass anyways top end they would loose no power


make complete sentances please. Are cars are all top end also.

burnyd
10-15-2006, 04:24 AM
He just gave me a call and said he's converting his car to Japan Spec honda.. i don't really know wut this means but he said its going to be faster than he though it would be so i'm guessing its going to add power. i have more torque than him so i might have a shot from a dig. I wonder wut would benefit me more.. a v6 solora e153 or the stock tranny (s53 with clutch and lightweight flywheel).


DO NOT BUY A lightweight flywheel... theres no point. Yes youll be able to launch alot higher but its anoiying unless your really using your car for drag.

Honestly I have answered everyone of your questions listein to what I am telling you as someone who has done this swap before... someone who has ran their car on the street and on the track. Look at all my postes I answered your question. But as for the transmission like I said before

5spd out of a solara or camry v6 with a spec clutch


s53/s54 simply cannot hold the power and it takes away from the experience of a turbo car with shorter gearing. You cannot hold boost for as long with smaller gearing. Its great for NA cars but the longer can hold boost the better. Plus e153 can hold the power of a 3sgte. I blew up 3 S series trans from 1 year. Each at 300 a peice. Its not fun. But if you intend on beating on your car like street racing /track time or drag racing its not the transmission for you.

wizzards581
10-15-2006, 04:29 AM
just want to add to this...

i use to own a EG with jdm GSR swap. stock motor w/ IHE... im pulling 14.5 all day long at the track. thats my daily driven car that has full interior, PS, AC,...

i put over 100 miles commuting and pulling 14.5 at track is not bad... though i cant comment cuz i never drove a FWD celica 3sgte, but my st185 runs like crap, stock.

Atticus
10-15-2006, 04:35 AM
BurnyD.. can u explain a little bit more in dept about that flywheel thing.. cuz i was really convinced that a flywheel would help a lot. but i'm guessing u like the stock e153 flywheel. yes i wan't the car for drag but also for a cornering racing like autocross. information will be greatly appreciated.

burnyd
10-15-2006, 05:08 AM
BurnyD.. can u explain a little bit more in dept about that flywheel thing.. cuz i was really convinced that a flywheel would help a lot. but i'm guessing u like the stock e153 flywheel. yes i wan't the car for drag but also for a cornering racing like autocross. information will be greatly appreciated.


Lightened flywheel on a stock motor isnt going to be fun.... If you have aim im me @ burneeeed

Atticus
10-15-2006, 07:12 AM
Alrighty.. i'll add you on AIM.

alltracman78
10-15-2006, 03:30 PM
Im not too sure about not fearing it... You already show doubt in your car by asking this question... You already lost the race. A true racer shows no doubt in his car nor does his car doubt him. The only thing that should be in question is "how much will I win by"

What the hell?!!!!

Is this The Fast and the Crapurious #4?

:laugh:


Why exactly are we arguing for TWO FRIGGIN PAGES over which car will win?
Why don't you wait and see?
That is the ONLY way you will find out.....


And for the record, the 3rd gen 3SGTE has 255 hp, not 225.
The JDM SECOND gen has 225. Not 200.
Unless you find a RC clip. Then it's 235.
With 95 or so octane [OUR octane rating].

Moving to the bench racing forum.....

alltracman78
10-15-2006, 03:37 PM
I dunno why ppl hail VTec like its a turbo or sumthing... Electronic valve timing control... I thought alotta cars had electronic valve timing now, just not called VTec... How much extra power can you get out of electronic valve timing control??? Its like advancing the timing... It gives you some extra pep but nothing major. And what about the turbo timer??? wats the deal with these? If you dont have 1 couldnt you just sit with the car ideling until the turbo is done spooling down or watever?

Oh, and it's alot more than just timing control.
I know someone already addressed this, but I'm going to further clarify.

The major power potential of it is the lift and duration of the larger cam lobe.
Higher lift and longer duration allow MUCH more air:fuel into the chamber.
It's no different than a huge cam on a muscle car, except in this case it's a second cam, so you can still have a smooth idle and good emissions.

So it actually can add a quite a bit more power.
It's not as advantageous with a turbo however.
Nor does it have the potential of a turbo.

As for a turbo timer, yes, you can sit and let the car run.
That is what I have been doing for 5 or so years.

However, it's not really needed for the 3SGTE.
The CT26 is a water cooled turbo.
So it doesn't have the same potential for turbo coking.
It can still happen, so don't get too complacent.

tankd0g
10-15-2006, 04:07 PM
Drag racing should be an event in the special olympics anyway. Chellenge him to a road course lap, you lose there and you realy are the worst driver.

Atticus
10-15-2006, 07:04 PM
hahahah we'll see wut happens. are the 250HP clips hard to find??

ciento44
10-15-2006, 09:06 PM
hahahah we'll see wut happens. are the 250HP clips hard to find??

Not particularly, but there is no point whatsoever in getting one....

It's the same engine...

burnyd
10-15-2006, 09:28 PM
not hard just expensive.. sorry try me on aim again today fell asleep last night.

TEAMFaint
10-15-2006, 11:56 PM
Stock JDM 2nd Gen 3SGTE = 225 crank HP
Stock JDM 3rd Gen 3SGTE = 255 crank HP


Just get a 2nd gen and do some easy bolt ons and call it a day.

Atticus
10-16-2006, 03:56 AM
Yeah i'll do that. hopefully with the JDM clip i'll be able to beat him. Status on his car: he is going to be pulling 180-190 WHP.

tankd0g
10-16-2006, 04:31 AM
If you just put a pair of tires on the clip you'll defintely have the weight advantage.

Atticus
10-16-2006, 04:21 PM
Lmfao. Never thought of that one hehe. and spray some nitrous on it.. i'd destroy him :D.

jakbauerctu
10-16-2006, 06:29 PM
i think the jdm engine will give him about ten more horsepower. unless its a jdm type r engine, then i think you will lose.

Atticus
10-17-2006, 03:02 AM
It's a GSR.

jakbauerctu
10-17-2006, 03:18 AM
here is some info on his engine.
his is the sir-g
http://www.team-integra.net/sections/articles/showArticle.asp?ArticleID=478

alltracman78
10-17-2006, 11:57 PM
Stock JDM 2nd Gen 3SGTE = 225 crank HP
Stock JDM 3rd Gen 3SGTE = 255 crank HP


Just get a 2nd gen and do some easy bolt ons and call it a day.

Problem is, the 3rd gen is a better engine for the most part....
And the 255 is a conservative figure from what I've read....

Nothing wrong with a gen 2 engine, but if you have the option of either, and can afford either, I would go with the gen 3.