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View Full Version : Anyone have a 20v swap in there car ?



heyman
10-09-2006, 03:37 PM
Trying to get some feedback on 20v swap black top vs silver top . I want to go 4age 20v black top and at the same time , im going auto to 5 speed . I like the blk top , more hp , faster revs. i can also get it in a 6 speed if choose. But im just trying to get some feedback on these 2 motors. Ive never had one , nor driven a car with one. Thanks for any help !!! Charles

WANTED---- 2 ST\GT FENDERS , ANY COLOR , NO DENTS !!!! NEED SHIPPED TO SC 29642. THANKS FOR ANY HELP , CANT FIND ANY IN MY AREA..

4thgenceli
10-09-2006, 04:21 PM
Jeremy over on 4gc has a 20v silver top swapped into his AE86. That things a little fuckin beast.

Dr Tweak
10-09-2006, 10:04 PM
What do you want to know? The blacktop is definetely more powerful and more "extreme". It's also more expensive, and somewhat more difficult to wire up.

Between this site and 6gc.net, there are a number of people running silvertops. I don't know of anyone that's currently running a blacktop though.

-Doc

Colossus20v
10-09-2006, 10:10 PM
People dont usually run blacktop because of the expense. I say if you are just wanted something to be a DD and be fun then a blacktop will be fine. If you want to mod and turbo at some point in time then a silvertop would be better. The actual power difference is not that much between the motors but the power bands I believe are different.

insomnak8702
10-10-2006, 12:06 AM
what made you choose the cilvertop pimpin?

Colossus20v
10-10-2006, 03:17 AM
the availability and price.

91 celica st
10-10-2006, 07:29 AM
i would have been the first person to swap a blacktop for it had not been for california smog (gay), i had my turbo kit on and was getting ready to swap for a blacktop....got reffed, turbo kit went off and never went thogh with the engine, sitll havnt put the kit back on

heyman
10-10-2006, 08:59 AM
i like the balcktop , revs a little faster. Not worried about price. ill buy a ae111 front clip and use the engine trans and wiring harness. just trying to get a few opions . keep them coming. THANKS Charles

91 celica st
10-10-2006, 09:16 AM
after LOTS of research, you will not be able to use the ae111 transmission/engine blacktop combo withought rewleding or getting custom motor mounts, there oh so slightly diffrent then the silvertops in a FWD application. it fits about the same as a 4agze in a celica, ask magic about how hard it was to get a 4agze in there

Dr Tweak
10-10-2006, 08:15 PM
after LOTS of research, you will not be able to use the ae111 transmission/engine blacktop combo withought rewleding or getting custom motor mounts, there oh so slightly diffrent then the silvertops in a FWD application. it fits about the same as a 4agze in a celica, ask magic about how hard it was to get a 4agze in there


Where'd you get this information? I don't think you're correct. The 6-speed tranny that comes with the blacktop is a C-series, just like the stock tranny. The tranny that comes with the 4AGZE is an E-series, which is why it is difficult to fit into the Celica. That's why most people use the C-series tranny on the 4AGZE to keep it simple. Anyway, the AE111 stuff will work just fine, you just need to swap over the 4A brackets.

-Doc

insomnak8702
10-10-2006, 09:31 PM
is there a lsd tranny for the A series engines?

91 celica st
10-11-2006, 03:03 AM
Where'd you get this information? I don't think you're correct. The 6-speed tranny that comes with the blacktop is a C-series, just like the stock tranny. The tranny that comes with the 4AGZE is an E-series, which is why it is difficult to fit into the Celica. That's why most people use the C-series tranny on the 4AGZE to keep it simple. Anyway, the AE111 stuff will work just fine, you just need to swap over the 4A brackets.

-Doc
when i swapped my blacktop into the corolla (rwd) i had it sitting next to a spare 4afe with tranny from my prizm, i did some measuring and the mounts wouldnt quite add up all the way. im sure you would be able to with little midification but it is not a direct fit with the blacktop tranny, the tranny mount is diffrent, and im also pretty sure the crossmember where the 2 bottem mounts are will bolt up no problems but im almost posotive it is not a direct drop in with the c-160 tranny, it should work with the c-50 tho or a c-52 from a 7afe. but the only problems with those is that the balcktop revvs more than 1000 rpm and 50+ more hp than what they wre designed for, i wouldnt expect them to last long. not to mention the position of the starter with that transmission presents a bit of a problem. i was going to use the c-56 from a silvertop or the E-51 tranny (supposibly this works) but most liekly i would have swapped with my 4afe and changed to the c-56 when it took a shit on me.....hope that helps

heyman
10-12-2006, 07:24 AM
4a blacktop will drop right in a celica. just use the 4afe motor mounts. like the Doctor said , its a cseries. anyway thanks for the insight !!

91 celica st
10-12-2006, 07:51 AM
again, no its wont.....ask magic, thats what everyone said about the 4agze swap and it wasnt true. even if you use the 4afe mounts it is not a direct fit, i am the clostest person in the world to completing this swap. it most likely willbe a driect fit with the 4afe transmission or a c-52 but defiantly not the c-160 and mabe not (dunno on this one) the c-56

vipergtrdj
10-13-2006, 03:37 AM
so now im confused ... will the 4age bolt up to the 4afe engine mounts ? or wont it ?

Colossus20v
10-13-2006, 04:12 AM
Yes the engine bolts up the same. The issue is the tranny that is used. If you use a c-52, c-50, c-56 it will bolt the same. The C-160, and the E-51 are the ones in questions whether they bolt up the same and have room for the starter.

91 celica st
10-13-2006, 06:05 AM
^pretty much, if you use any c series axcept the 6 speed c-160 then it bolts right up IMO.

but im also farily confident it will bolt up with the E-51 tranny if you use the mount for it. i researched this route because this was what i was going to use. but im not 100% on this one scince its never been attempted. it has ben used with a redtop swap in a rolla and it worked perfectly with the mount. so i figure why wouldnt it with the celica?

91 celica st
10-13-2006, 06:07 AM
oh yea forgot to add, part of the reason why i believe the c-160 will have rpoblems bolting up is the starter like i said im my earlier post and like colossus mentiond, i know the e-51 starter clears everything cuz its in the same spot. the only question on that one is how well the mount works. the c-160, not only does the starter have fitament issues, but the mount i know is not 100% drop in, youd have to shave it, re weld it, or get a diffrent one, i belive you could re drill the mounting holes on it to the tranny and it will work but then you sort of compromise the integrity of the metal.

91 celica st
10-13-2006, 06:10 AM
if i pass smog, i might finish the blacktop 20v swap in an st and be the first person to do it. this wont happen untill around april of 2007 becuase thats when smog is due (again after i smog it now cuz of ref) so if that works, i WILL be doing the 20v swap

and tweak sorry about not emailing u again about it, i got reffed when i still had my turbo on like over a month ago and bascially the blacktop just sits there waiting for something to happen

Dr Tweak
10-15-2006, 01:29 AM
Just let me know when you need it.

Are you sure that you can't swap the brackets from the C50 tranny over to the C160? The E58 that comes with the 4AGZE is a lot different, but I still can't beleive that the C160 won't work.

In fact, I call BS! LOL :D

91 celica st
10-15-2006, 06:44 AM
well, guess well have to find out :) im thinking about mabe just useing the 6 speed tranny and getting the entire shiter assembly from an 7th gen GT-s

no tweak the actual mounting spots on the tranny are definitivly diffrent, and the c-160 tranny mount is diffrent, that why i said you could mabe redrill the holes in it, but scince theres not alot of surface metal already on the bracket i think it would destroy the integrty of the bracket (regardless if you treid to re drill the 4afe tranny or 6 speed)

if it were me and i wanted to use the 6 speed. i wouldnt risk drilling into it, i would go have a shop make me a new mount. scince i would have to pul the motor every year and a half, i wouldnt want to re weld a motor mount.

if it is the case that it bolts right in witch im fairly sure it dosent (unless somehow the prisms 4afe mounts are diffrent) then i definatly would use the balcktop tranny

91 celica st
10-15-2006, 06:46 AM
but that also dosent stray from the fact that the starter is on a diffrent spot on the balcktop tranny then the 4afe tranny as well. even though ther the same "size" block it would be a much tighter fit in the celica engine bay with the blacktop. plus the tranny is a little bigger looking....dont remember if it looked longer or not