PDA

View Full Version : 4agze vs. 3sgte



TheNefariousOne
09-20-2006, 05:06 AM
Probably around tax time next year when I get my refund, I'm gonna undertake some sort of engine swap. So what I'm trying to do here is weigh my options. Keep in mind that I would be swapping into a 92 ST. I'm gonna try to get it started but I'm just looking for some input. There are some things I'm not sure of, etc. So...

4agze
Pros
-Easier to swap into AT180 chassis
-Ability to retain use of stock transmission
-Cheaper
-Larger aftermarket for the 4ag series of engines....? (not sure)
-Larger bank of information....? (again, not sure)
-MAP allows for greater tuneability I believe

Cons
-Less displacement than 3sgte
-Comes stock with supercharger rather than turbo
-Wiring will more difficult since Celicas never came stock with 4agze

3sgte
Pros
-Already turbo
-Larger displacement

Cons
-AFM
-More expensive to swap into AT180 chassis
-More costly

I'm sure I missed a bunch of stuff, and I'm prolly wrong on a lot of the stuff I put down. Anyways, chime in with some opinions because I see very little regarding this swap.

Dr Tweak
09-20-2006, 05:23 AM
Basically, the 4AGZE is a lot easier to swap in. You can retain the factory mount locations, tranny, axles, etc. The wiring is a non-issue (just send it to me). There's actually more knowledge out there for the 3SGTE than for the latest MAP/DLI 4AGZE. However, because it's supercharged, getting more power out of it is a challenge. And either way, you're going to need want to do a custom front-mount intercooler setup. The 3SGTE is a lot more powerful and much easier to get more power out of. Also keep in mind that the 3SGTE is MAP-sensored from the 3rd generation on.


-Doc

Luni
09-20-2006, 05:55 AM
Yeah, the USDM 4agzes all had AFMs. Youd need a 4AGZE out of an AE101 or higher I believe to have map setup.

RedPhoenix
09-20-2006, 01:18 PM
i think there is more after market support? if not, 3sgte has a lot.

Colossus20v
09-20-2006, 02:28 PM
The engine are completely different. You need to figure out what you want out of your car first then that will help you in deciding which engine to swap. If you are looking to be real fast and drag race and get times down in the 13s or whatever, then swapping a 3sgte would be better. If you are looking for something with just a little bit more go and something fun to cruise around in then a 4agze will provide enough for that.

So what is the ultimate goal here? JDM 4agzes can put out around 200hp with intake, header, and exhaust and a good tune. Also changing the pulley can push out a good bit of power. So there are alot of options with both engines, you just need to determine what your goal is.

Cavanagh
09-20-2006, 04:35 PM
Well, i got a quick question myself....if i bought a 20v 4age, could i turbo it?? too me personally it doesn't seem like theres alotta aftermarket support. but my main quiestion is the turbo issue. Thanks.

bloodredgt
09-20-2006, 05:35 PM
Well, i got a quick question myself....if i bought a 20v 4age, could i turbo it?? too me personally it doesn't seem like theres alotta aftermarket support. but my main quiestion is the turbo issue. Thanks.

I'm not sure if I'm remembering correctly but I think I read somewhere that the black top was more turbo friendly compared to the silver top. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

MrWOT
09-20-2006, 06:35 PM
Yes, you can turbo it, but regardless it isn't as good for power as the 3S. Displacement rules even more in forced induction.

Lagos
09-20-2006, 07:15 PM
the 3s might be a tad bit more work, and you will have to buy at least a GT or mr2 tranny, but i think its well worth it. you get the most power, out of the box, with the swap and the potential for the motor is pretty much as high as you want to go. in the end, all swaps end up costing about the same, and whats a grand more or less, when your already spending a good deal on either swap.

91 celica st
09-20-2006, 07:23 PM
I'm not sure if I'm remembering correctly but I think I read somewhere that the black top was more turbo friendly compared to the silver top. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
not really, is is because its run on map but the bottem end (rods pistons) are lighter and thinner than silvertop due to it being able to revv higher, plus it has a 11.0 comp ratio with makes it more difficult to run Fi on, its been done, but silvertop is a better choice IMO

KoreanJoey
09-20-2006, 08:24 PM
Doesn't the silvertop have stronger rods (but also heavier)?

91 celica st
09-21-2006, 12:12 AM
^yes, by about 75 grams
the pistons are also coated for both silvertop and blacktop. so i wouldnt say one is stronger than the other, but the blacktop does have higher compression, and its harder to get a more reliable setup with that :)

i wouldnt trust the blacktops rods with boost, silver top are wayy beefiiyer

guess witch one is the blacktop/silvertop

http://www.billzilla.org/4agrods.jpg