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View Full Version : putting TVSV to good use



Lagos
09-14-2006, 04:05 AM
just so we dont get this confused with tvis, im talking about the factory selenoid that puts the car into hi/low boost mode, depending on if the ecu feels its safe to boost.

i originally got the idea to try this from luni (and lovehorsepower.com), when he mentioned he wanted to hook tvsv up to control his EBC. thought it would be a great idea because if your motor was to ever see knock, the ecu would still be able to put the car into low boost mode to try to save the motor from knock. so i decideded to look into this to see if it was possible.

i bought an LED from radio shack with built in resistor (thanks nuke), to monitor just how the tvsv system operates, and hooked it up. what i found out is that when the car is at idle, cruise or off boost, the tvsv line from the ecu gets 12v and turns the LED on. as soon as you start to make any type of boost, that 12v on the ecu changes to ground, and the light goes out. so it seems there wouldnt be a simple way of hooking this directly up to the ebc without the use of some type of relay. also the ebc would be turning on and off every time you lift your foot off the throttle.

but the cool thing about the LED is that it tells you when its safe to boost. if the LED stays ON, while you are making boost, then you know the ecu is getting knock response and that you should get off the throttle becasue the ecu wants to put the car into low boost mode.

sloceli
09-14-2006, 05:01 AM
Part number of said LED please?

Lagos
09-14-2006, 05:23 AM
ill look for the package tomorrow and post the number. its basically a 12v led with built in resistor. they sell them in green and red. i got the green one, but now that i hooked it up, i wish i got the red one, since it would make more sense if u see it on while boosting.

Sean
09-14-2006, 06:27 AM
Hmm.. I may end up doing this as well, more detail Lagos.

Lagos
09-14-2006, 07:10 AM
basic idea to set this up is this....

go to radio shack and buy a red 12v led with reisitor built in. it should be one of those that you can mount anywhere on the dash by drilling a hole and it will have a nut on it to secure it in place. they cost like 2 bucks.

then, on the 1st ecu plug. look for pin 6. it should be a blue wire with a red stripe. Tee into this wire and hook it up to the power wire on the led. then connected the other end of the led to ground.

if you did it righ, the LED will come on when u start the car, idle, cruise or drive off boost. then as soon as you start making any boost, it will go out, telling u that the ecu feels that its safe to make boost. if for some reason its still on while you are boosting, then you know the ecu has detected knock and is trying to put the car into low boost mode.

Lagos
09-14-2006, 07:14 AM
you can also do the same thing for your tvIs and monitor exactly when and if your extra intake runners are working. you just need to find the correct pin on the ecu for it and doubble check if the tvis wire is power or ground on the ecu side.

angryyoungnpoor
09-14-2006, 07:15 AM
Do you need to hook up the tvsv?

burnyd
09-14-2006, 07:48 AM
you must have alot of time on your hands.

Luni
09-14-2006, 03:40 PM
Just wire the negative terminal of your ProfecB to the switched ground (cause the TVSV is a negative switching ground that activates it) and when its active the device comes on. If youre concerned about "frying" your electronic by killing power and turning it on again, install a power filter (requires certain amount of voltage to activate, and cant exceed a certain amount or it pops a fuse or breaker), so you dont harm the unit.

This is what Im going to do. I dont mind my controller only coming on when its safe. I dont need to wire in an LED, I will know if its safe if my profec-b turns on.

Lagos
09-14-2006, 04:03 PM
Just wire the negative terminal of your ProfecB to the switched ground (cause the TVSV is a negative switching ground that activates it) and when its active the device comes on. If youre concerned about "frying" your electronic by killing power and turning it on again, install a power filter (requires certain amount of voltage to activate, and cant exceed a certain amount or it pops a fuse or breaker), so you dont harm the unit.

This is what Im going to do. I dont mind my controller only coming on when its safe. I dont need to wire in an LED, I will know if its safe if my profec-b turns on.

i dont think its that simple. that line gets power when its NOT in boost, and gets ground as soon as you start building boost. if i hook it up to the ground on my ebc, i would be sending 12v to the grounding wire. somehow i think this might fry something since im sending 12v to the power and 12v to the ground of the ebc. i know that wire changes from 12v to ground, but something about that dosnt sound like a good idea to me.

another thing to keep in mind, is that the system isint either 12v all the time or ground all the time. it switches every second you start to boost, or let off the throttle. so the ebc will be powering up and down with your throttle position. i dont know how well this would work in real life, and if your ebc selenoid would have time to react fast enough.

Luni
09-14-2006, 05:05 PM
No Lagos. You ground the EBC to the ground wire on the TVSV. You provide a constant power to the EBC thats on when the key is on.

It IS that simple. Other people have hooked their LEDS up in this fashion (2 leds. 1 red when it isnt grounded and it is CLOSED and one green when it IS grounded and its open).

The solenoid would have time to react fast enough. Ive tested it. You can too. Do a boost run with the EBC on, turn it off, boost drops instantly. Turn it back on, boost builds back to preset value instantly. It works.

This has been done before. I posted the idea at MR2oc about a year or so ago and people have done it. Im sure Im not the only one to think of it either, I was just the first to post about it and discuss it I think.

nuclearhappines
09-14-2006, 05:28 PM
doesn't the EBC have a scramble input... u could just use the stock ECU to scramble the EBC ?

and yes the solonoid is instant...

Lagos
09-14-2006, 05:43 PM
no the ebc dosnt have any scramble feature.

but my concern is.... wont the ebc get damaged because its grounding wire is sometimes 12v and sometimes ground, depending on your throttle? thats got to overload something.

i think a better way to do it, would be to use a relay. have the tvsv swith the relay to turn ON/off just a ground on the ebc.

Lagos
09-14-2006, 06:30 PM
here is a pic of the leds i used.

http://www.mrtwo.net/mr2modproject/mod/ecuindicators/ecu2.jpg

and here is a link to an article i found about it
http://www.mrtwo.net/mr2modproject/mod/ecuindicators/ecuindicators.htm

Serpico
09-15-2006, 01:02 AM
but my concern is.... wont the ebc get damaged because its grounding wire is sometimes 12v and sometimes ground, depending on your throttle? thats got to overload something.

i think a better way to do it, would be to use a relay. have the tvsv swith the relay to turn ON/off just a ground on the ebc.

Great idea Lagos/Luni...

I was also concerned about removing the TVSV, so I haven't. With this mod it can more safely by removed if you use the signal to control your boost an alternative way keeping the knock and other ECU safety features. Great idea, haven't spotted this one before....

Surely just simply use a N/C (Normally Closed) 12v relay...
I know a little bit about electronics, but haven't worked out what a Power Filter is for other than filtering unwanted noise so I'm at a loss to what that actually would do here (I may be wrong, just don't know what one is apart from low-pass noise suppression). A Normally Closed relay will connect the ground on the EBC when there is no power on the TVSV line (LED off, Relay off), therefore it would be working as normal when your On-Boost. When it's powered (LED on, Relay on) it pulls the relay contacts and disconnects the power to the EBC and stops it controlling boost...

Haven't got an EBC myself, but I would make sure that this line from the ECU isn't rapidly pulsed in any way first. This could be tested with an Oscilloscope, or smooth out the pulses with a few Capacitors and Resistors. I should imagine though as it's controlling the TVSV it isn't pulsed and therefore failry safe to connect to your EBCs...

Switching the complete unit on and off bothers me slightly though. There is, with most fancy electronic gadgets these days, a "switch on" period whilst the unit comes into full operation. Even my Spa Digital Boost Gauge goes through a test mode first. (~1/2 sec or so...) Could you tap into the control wire from the EBC to the solenoid maybe and connect the N/C relay with the TVSV line to it instead? This will leave the EBC fully conected an on at all times. Then maybe use the LED as an overide indicator, connected through a similar relay to show RED when ECU shows ground at the TVSV line? So when knock happens, your EBC will still be active and thinks it's working, but it's overidden safely by the N/C Relay / LED. Pulsing the EBC may very well work, but it just might have a "boot-up" period, and things only break when they are switched on an off. A light bulb usually goes just as it's switched on, not in all cases of course, but this is usually when they go pop...

Maybe I'm wrong, but hope this helps...

Frank.

Luni
09-15-2006, 05:26 AM
Profec B doesnt do that. It turns on and thats it. Does its thing.

Ive tested it before.

Dunno, it wont work for everything but my boost controller it would work great.

Lagos
09-15-2006, 08:00 AM
when u plan on setting this up luni? id like to see how it works out for you in the real world.

i think for now, im going to do the red/green LED's on mine and then decided on the ebc later on.

Luni
09-15-2006, 04:26 PM
Well man, my car is going to be getting a bunch of attention sometime in the near future, but since it isnt my daily driver anymore I can take my time and devote ALOT of time to the project.

Im going to be swapping tranny, putting clutch, flywheel, arp flywheel bolts (spec stage3 clutch, Jun ultralight Chromoly flywheel, poly suspension/steering bushings, strut inserts (prolly KYB AGXs), reinforcement on the struts where the sway bars connect, springs (H&R Sports), Suspension Techniques sways, ATS Throttle body inlet, and some stuff I cant even think of.

Point being its ALL getting done at the same time and once its back up Ill be installing my profecb after its all done, so when I do, Ill hook it up this way, but I dont think it will be until spring that I drive the thing again... I want to wait and take my time on it. Theres so much work to do on it and I want it all done right. Im getting sick of working on this car.

Lagos
09-18-2006, 03:12 AM
well ... i finsihed up the LED install. i have it setup so that when you boost, it runs green and when it detects knock it will be red. took the car for a few test runs to try out the system. the good news is, the setup works VERY well. realiable way to monitor knock, for 4bucks. you cant beat it!

now here is the bad part. i have the car running at 1bar. i did a 4th gear WOT highway run, and i got knock at around 4-5k ! the ecu went into safe mode and stayed there for about 1min. then later on, i decided to give it a shot in 1st and 2nd gear. i knock knock response again! its amazing how before the LED mod, i would have never known this! this time the ecu stayed in safe mode for a very long time. i had to shut the car off and turn back on again to reset it.

this seems like the same problem i noticed months back when i went to the dyno. i blamed it on bosch plugs, but i guess something else was the cause of it .

there is a good chance that ill be getting a killer deal on a wideband soon. if that works out i can trouble shoot this even more. if anyone has any ideas as to why im knocking at 1 bar, let me know. my theory is that maybe its not as safe to run 1bar on a jdm ecu as it is on an usdm ecu.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h224/lagos3sgte/knockdetection5.jpg

Luni
09-18-2006, 05:08 AM
Try pulling your timing back to 8 degrees and see if it still runs OK boosts OK and doesnt knock as much. Thats what some of the MR2 guys with JDM ecus do.

Either that or the NOS octane booster (some test showed it was the better of them) might help too.

I dunno. Youre prolly right with the knock thing. More aggressive fuel maps.

Lagos
09-18-2006, 05:16 AM
before i do anything, i think im going to wait for this wideband deal to happen. then i can see what kind of a/f ratio im at when these problems happen. i have a funny feeling that the the engine is running lean like it did during my dyno run when i first noticed this issue.

if that turns out to be the cause of it, i might try an adjustable FPR and bump up the base a bit. i figure it would be the safest way to add more fuel, without messing around with piggy backs.

does anyone here have a dynojet runfile from a jdm swaped celica at 15psi? all i can find is mr2s and most of those are usdm and dont have a fmic like we do.

Playfortoday
09-18-2006, 08:13 PM
I don't know if this was said or not, but if I loose ground with my EBC, it looses prgramming. It has the standard 3 wire power set up. 12v Constant, 12v Ign, and ground. Looks like I need a difference EBC or I guess I can wire in a ground trigger relay with the IGN wire receiving power when the relay closes.

Luni
09-18-2006, 08:46 PM
My EBC has no programming. Its analog knobs with preset values and dipswitches.

Its simplicity.

emicen
10-05-2006, 05:21 PM
Late to the party but what the hey.

Lagos, isnt your det issue likely to be caused by over ambitious ignition advance from the japanese ecu? Its mapped for 100RON, even USA spec premium is only about 97RON iirc.

On the subject of the LED's, would it be possible to combine the signals from the LED and the stock boost gauge's sensor to have the LED only light when the car see's positive boost and det response?

I appreciate the LED only stays on when the ECU is detecting det and attempting to limit boost, however, any light that stays on in normal driving isnt going to be as noticeable in the heat of battle. Example, my ST205's fog light wiring makes the blown bulb light stay on on my dash, even though all the bulbs are fine. Net result, I pay jack shit attention to any yellow/orange glow from that area of the dash.

No doubt this would add extra cost to the system, but if you could have a bright strobing LED mounted on top of your dash, that would get your attention a lot better I reckon.