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Ricksta
08-15-2006, 01:45 AM
lookin for a shell for my motor.

which one owns who?!?!?!

yes the alltrac is heavy but i have advantages from a dig.

mr2 is light, but rwd.

which is the better car?!?!?

angryyoungnpoor
08-15-2006, 01:49 AM
What are you plans for the car? If you're looking for a dragger, go for an mr2. Looking for great handling, autox, rallyx, go with the alltrac.

Ricksta
08-15-2006, 01:56 AM
great streetcar/drag

in need for a rebuild soon. going to really unleash a monster this time when im done. i want something that can take the power

dan was telling me that ats makes axels for mr2 that dont break. cant beat that :)

TEAMFaint
08-15-2006, 01:58 AM
I'm guessing you'll total the MR2 if you have anything but a 5SFE for power in it.
So alltrac I suppose.

Ricksta
08-15-2006, 02:05 AM
I'm guessing you'll total the MR2 if you have anything but a 5SFE for power in it.
So alltrac I suppose.


and what made you choose this decision? did you make a pass judgement on my driving skillz because you beleive im some sort of wigger? think again dickhead stay the fuck out of my thread.

d1alltrac
08-15-2006, 02:10 AM
i think an alltrac would make a better all around car that can do well pretty much anywhere but an mr2 would be better for all out performance, be it a drag car or a track car it has significant advantages over an alltrac.

2kSnakEater
08-15-2006, 02:13 AM
I vote on all trac, awd pwns

TEAMFaint
08-15-2006, 02:14 AM
and what made you choose this decision? did you make a pass judgement on my driving skillz because you beleive im some sort of wigger? think again dickhead stay the fuck out of my thread.

Not saying you are a wigger Ricky, no need to swear now.

I'm just saying if you are going to be attempting to put 400 whp to the wheels on a MR2 you are in for a surprize. Seen that video with the VW meet and the MR2? Thats bound to happen with anyone man, dont think I'm pointing fingers.

You'll be a lot safer in an alltrac, may as well put it in there.

Cavanagh
08-15-2006, 02:15 AM
LOL this is a joke, MR2 by far.... lol the all-trac doesn't even compare to a MR2. The only thing all-trac can do is be awd and heavy.

Ricksta
08-15-2006, 02:19 AM
Not saying you are a wigger Ricky, no need to swear now.

I'm just saying if you are going to be attempting to put 400 whp to the wheels on a MR2 you are in for a surprize. Seen that video with the VW meet and the MR2? Thats bound to happen with anyone man, dont think I'm pointing fingers.

You'll be a lot safer in an alltrac, may as well put it in there.

i did not see this vid....

TEAMFaint
08-15-2006, 02:29 AM
http://www.uglyjackass.com/media/videos/?id=idiot_car_driver


werd.

Just saying a lot of power in that crazy car can be dangerous thats all

2kSnakEater
08-15-2006, 02:31 AM
I loved that vid, stupid guy, he would of been dead had it been a harley convention

Ricksta
08-15-2006, 02:55 AM
oooooo yes ive seen that vid. what a dumbass. im not about tryin to show off like that though. i used to drive around a mustang 5.0 and the ass end was everywhere. i dont mess around with rwd. just line her up and vroom vroom :)

TEAMFaint
08-15-2006, 03:09 AM
I still vote Alltrac. Put the power to the ground the way it was supposed to be...to all 4 wheels.

2kSnakEater
08-15-2006, 03:21 AM
I agree, If I could somehow keep the awd and drop an LS1 into the All-Trac I would sell the Trans Am

Playfortoday
08-15-2006, 03:22 AM
LOL this is a joke, MR2 by far.... lol the all-trac doesn't even compare to a MR2. The only thing all-trac can do is be awd and heavy.

Stop talking out of your ass.

http://alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15413&highlight=

There are good points for both.

Punisher
08-15-2006, 03:34 AM
MR2 and alltrac with the same HP #'s line up.. Mr2 will take the AT any day.

MR2's handle different than mustangs as well.. you have to remember where the engine is on each car...

But why anyone in florida would want an AT is beyond me.. Living up in the snow states is another story.

Also ATS does not make axles.. they make bearing cages that don't break.

They also charge 75 dollars to bore out a fuel rail that took me 10 minutes to do today and the cost was free.

aballz
08-15-2006, 03:54 AM
I'm gonna agree with cavanagh. RWD, lsd, turbo, you just can't go wrong. It's lighter, quicker, and handles probably better. But thats performance talking. If you want a car that can lug a bike around, some luggage, 10 speaker sound system, then obviously the all trac is good for that.

Ricksta
08-15-2006, 04:20 AM
im startin to lean towards the mr2. i still have to read the alltrac.net thread but everyone is fucking swarming me on aim!!!!!

burnyd
08-15-2006, 04:27 AM
I vote on all trac, awd pwns


ricksta you spend way too much time with this kid .........

Like I told you before less hp out of a mr2 will get you much much faster......

Its mid engine rwd with not alot of drivetrain loss... Like I told you tonight take a ride in an mr2 and see how fast it his compared to a stock alltrac.....

Truth being alltrac gets traction but theres soooo much drivetrain loss I think its around 33% and there heavy as fuck. Mr2s are kind of heavy but its mid engine rwd..

Like I also said before look at most of the stock 1/4 times with a alltrac and compare it to a mr2... Most of the 3sgte alltracs go 13's stock... cant do that with an alltrac... truth to be said less money into a mr2 makes it faster...

where you live in florida its not like you see snow... Must be nice.. if I were you I would be into an mr2. Ask on Mr2oc if someone would be willing to let you drive/ride in their mr2... Just go to the regional forums and see what they say. Chances are someone will be nice enough to show you what they feel like.

I took a ride in an mr2 about 3 months ago and ever since I had to have one.... I think its contageous who knows?

bloodredgt
08-15-2006, 04:51 AM
Get an MR2. It's what you're looking for.

ciento44
08-15-2006, 05:20 AM
Stop talking out of your ass.

http://alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15413&highlight=

There are good points for both.


Lol, thread is outdated.

Mr2turbz i believe has the unofficial record for fastest MR2 Turbo with a stock turbo.

But still, great read. :)

Hiko
08-15-2006, 07:00 AM
Looking for great handling, autox, rallyx, go with the alltrac.

:squint:

Sorry, but handling has to go to the MR2 on this one. The alltrac does not compare to an MR2 in the twisties. I've gotten a ride at an autocross in a worked MR2, and I've driven my dad's 06 STI at 2 autox's, and I have to say that the mr2 is much lighter on it's feet and generally better in the corners.

Though I have to give rallyx to you on that list, 4wd is much better for that.

91 celica st
08-15-2006, 07:17 AM
wow....

mr2 outhandles the all-trac stock to stock and upgraded to upgaraded hands down, lighter weight, and who can forget its mid engine? with a near 50/50 weight distribution

id like to make an example real quick jmust so poeple know
car 1: 2500 pounds, 200 HP 200 TQ street tires (lets say falken azenis) and is Mid engine
car A: 2500 pounds, 200 hp 200 tq street tires (same falkens as above) but is AWD

car 1 will not only outlauch car A but as soon as it hit full tracing it will pull away like no ones buisness.... not only must you think that 200 crank hp goes down to about 160 WHP on an alltrack and on an mr2 its about 180 WHP, but midengine cars (can but not always) launch better than AWD cars. Shit goto automotiveforums.com and look for a jekylandhyde (jekylhyderacing.com) hes posting 1.625 60's...how many alltracks can/have done that

not only does an mr car transferr weight better than an awd car but after a scertain HP level AWD becomes usless to due the massive weight transferr of the front end of the vehicle (and sometimes the lifting ofthe front end)


ned i even duscuss the fact that the mr2 handles superbly better than the alltrack if driven right


and yes i think you would crash an MR2 turbo if you drove one ricksta, i know i almost have trying to drift one


and for all those who disagree, i have driven both an mr2 turbo and all-track, both stock....not only was the mr2 way faster it handled incredibly better

but yes i would rather own an alltrack :)

91 celica st
08-15-2006, 07:18 AM
wow i just found his fastest 60' 1.498
i dont think ANY alltrack has ever gotten that

burnyd
08-15-2006, 08:46 AM
I land 1.8's - 2.0 60ft times on my mr2 all the time without the lsd trans....

as far as auto crossing goes its so fun in the mr2. The trans is geared real long. So you can feather it in a turn then just hit a straight away and hit boost. Its pretty cool hard to describe but mr2 owners know what I meen.

=cJ=
08-15-2006, 12:33 PM
Hmm, I've driven the MR2 G-Limited (3SGE) a few times and it's a completely different drive to my GT-4, much more highly strung, much more like I imagine a fighter plane to be. The GT-4 is much more reassuring to drive, especially at high speeds, and on uncertain surfaces.

Power is pretty impressive in the MR2 too, seeing as it was a non-turbo, and still got up and went pretty damn fast...

Given the choice between the two, I'd take the GT-4.

balagast
08-15-2006, 01:25 PM
Being as you live in Florida and dont have to worry about the wonderful thing we have in the north known as snow, I'd say the MR2.

Playfortoday
08-15-2006, 01:54 PM
ALL-TRACK

It's All-trac!

Playfortoday
08-15-2006, 02:05 PM
I know this is way outdated, but this time slip has always amazed me. This is an old timeslip of Pat Chinshue's from ChrisD's site from back in 2002.(Chris stopped updating his world race page (http://gtfour.ca/race.html)). What amazes me is the 60' time. I can not imagine what the slingshot feeling was like once the car finally got moving.



1/4 Mile MPH 1/8 Mile MPH 60'
10.950 131.22 6.950 103.52 2.544

I am looking for current a 60' time for hear near 9 second All-trac.

Playfortoday
08-15-2006, 02:39 PM
http://media.putfile.com/PatVsMR2

This is an ST185 vs. an MR2 at I think the last MR2 meet in Kansas(?). According to stuff I have read the ST185 was experiencing bad ignition(misfiring) problems in the upper rpms.

Punisher
08-15-2006, 04:36 PM
Those are two extremely modified vehicles though. MR2 still pulled.

Azzazzyn
08-15-2006, 04:37 PM
wait, wtf motor are you putting in a shell anyway? the obvious choice if your looking hp to hp is an mr2 cuz the trac has to put it down to all 4. I think an mr2 configured with an engine up front would be kiler for drifting.

Playfortoday
08-15-2006, 05:35 PM
Those are two extremely modified vehicles though. MR2 still pulled.

That was the point. Mod for mod.

burnyd
08-15-2006, 05:50 PM
that just amazes me that pat has that 60ft time yet runs that time.. and the best part about his car is its streetable + it has a full interior just looks like another alltrac.... play do you have any clue whats done to his car? turbo wise.

2kSnakEater
08-15-2006, 05:57 PM
why is his 60' soo bad? hell I get better 60' than that in the Trans Am, I thought AWD was supposed to kick ass in the 60' area

burnyd
08-15-2006, 06:07 PM
why is his 60' soo bad? hell I get better 60' than that in the Trans Am, I thought AWD was supposed to kick ass in the 60' area


why why why why I cant even make fun of you anymore you do it yourself so easily.

the guy obviously has a big turbo that has some really late spool time.

T-spoon
08-15-2006, 06:38 PM
why why why why I cant even make fun of you anymore you do it yourself so easily.

the guy obviously has a big turbo that has some really late spool time.

I'm pretty sure he was having bad traction issues with that, but I don't recall the details precisely.


I figure I can offer a little something to the thread, having daily driven both cars in question. The alltrac is a more comfortable car. Obviously it's slower, a lot slower. However, I laugh at the notion that you get no use from it living in a state without snow. There are plenty of other things that cause a road to be slick, not the least of which is rain. There's something really hot about a car that drives the same when it's pouring wet and when it's bright and sunny. I'll let you all pick which one does that. MR2s are scary when it's wet, when there's gravel, when someone makes you take a sudden manuver to avoid, etc. I don't like that feeling. As far as handling goes, I'd rather have the All-trac over the MkII MR2. Now, add the Spyder in there and I'd take the spyder, but that has it's drawbacks. It feels bad at high speed up on the freeway, gets buffeted around which is not so fun but boy does it have snappy handling.

One of the first replies to the thread is right, it depends entirely on what you want to do. The Alltrac is a far better daily driven all-season car (not from a maintenance standpoint necessarily, but from a performance/fun standpoint).

What I gathered from my experiences is that I want both, because neither one is 100% satisfying when compared to the other.

balagast
08-15-2006, 07:29 PM
very well put, tspoon... way to get this thread back on track

2kSnakEater
08-15-2006, 07:33 PM
The Traction problems you get in the rain is because:

1. lack of tire on the road

2. too much power going to a small tire


I had the same problem with the Trans Am, and even with TCS I was spinning the Tires. I fixed both problems by slapping on my 315/30 tires in the back now I dont have any problems driving in the rain.

Playfortoday
08-15-2006, 08:00 PM
that just amazes me that pat has that 60ft time yet runs that time.. and the best part about his car is its streetable + it has a full interior just looks like another alltrac.... play do you have any clue whats done to his car? turbo wise.

All the threads on altrac.net are gone, but you can get some info on Perry's site:

http://home.bellsouth.net/p/s/community.dll?ep=87&subpageid=38644&ck=

burnyd
08-15-2006, 10:37 PM
damn you really cant tell from the engine picture if its a 2nd gen / 3rd gen.. I dont see afm... but I bet he has a standalone... 2 bovs though? Turbo is pretty big and that looks like the manifold they make for mr2s for the external gated turbos.... hrrrrmmmmm so curious wtf his setup is.

Punisher
08-15-2006, 11:45 PM
Yes 2 BOVs.. nothing that mind blowing.

I don't know which one to have.. I mean.. they are both nice.. I'd have to agree with Tspoon.. have both!

Playfortoday
08-16-2006, 12:31 AM
Pat's car has a 3rd gen 3sgte.

Perry's car has to have over 500hp too by now... http://home.bellsouth.net/p/s/community.dll?ep=87&subpageid=58519&ck=

Ricksta
08-16-2006, 12:54 AM
All the threads on altrac.net are gone, but you can get some info on Perry's site:

http://home.bellsouth.net/p/s/community.dll?ep=87&subpageid=38644&ck=

that guy sure likes his 18's. and he races on 18's? and still makes it into the tens?

HaPpYfAcE
08-16-2006, 01:08 AM
this is why i sold my 92 Alltrac. i want the mr2 because it can be faster easier.

i agree with the having both choice. i would have kept my celica if i could have and then bought an mr2, but i couldn't. so maybe down the road i will.

i don't think the alltrac would be more 'steady feeling' on higher speeds than the 93+ mr2's. toyota made a revision to the front bumper and underbody, i think, on those models because of the problem you described with the floatiness at high speeds.

i think at over 100, most street cars get floaty with stock suspension. after lowering, i think it would be much better.

2kSnakEater
08-16-2006, 02:43 AM
to each his own, yes you can make an MR2 faster, and cheaper, but I dont like driving a shoe box, and if I wanted fast and cheap I would of gotten a 240 with an SR20. Those are both fast, cheap, and light!

d1alltrac
08-16-2006, 02:50 AM
on that 2.5 60' im pretty sure he was just babying it off the line, i remember seeing faster times back then.

there's alot of stuff in this thread that i disagree with but im just gonna leave it alone......for now at least.

Ricksta
08-16-2006, 02:51 AM
alltracs have thier advantages dont get me wrong....but an mr2 although rwd and a bit of a tight squeeze i beleive to be a beautiful car. im still am a diehard celi fan but the rush boost gives me is unreallllll. you want more and more and more. sure this gt will do me some good for awhile, but what about after that? i cant put monster hp in the fwd celi and it would take sooooo much more money to supe up an alltrac.

that vid of the alltrac vs mr2, how much more money and power do you think the alltrac had compared to the mr2?

i think within the coming months i will find me a cheap mr2 and build her up!!!!

alltracman78
08-16-2006, 02:54 AM
damn you really cant tell from the engine picture if its a 2nd gen / 3rd gen.. I dont see afm... but I bet he has a standalone... 2 bovs though? Turbo is pretty big and that looks like the manifold they make for mr2s for the external gated turbos.... hrrrrmmmmm so curious wtf his setup is.

He has something in the area of 900 hp at the crank.
So his mod list is something like this.
1-Everything



The Traction problems you get in the rain is because:

1. lack of tire on the road

2. too much power going to a small tire


I had the same problem with the Trans Am, and even with TCS I was spinning the Tires. I fixed both problems by slapping on my 315/30 tires in the back now I dont have any problems driving in the rain.

True.
To a point.
I bet you can't take a hard corner in the wet and get on it at the same time... :D
I can. I might slide a little bit, but I won't go that far. :)

Ricksta
08-16-2006, 03:50 AM
jeremy ftw!!!!

Playfortoday
08-16-2006, 04:29 AM
that vid of the alltrac vs mr2, how much more money and power do you think the alltrac had compared to the mr2?

i think within the coming months i will find me a cheap mr2 and build her up!!!!

As far I the stuff I have read about pat's alltrac, the tranny/xfer case/rear end are stock. So the mods between the two cars are more than likely a similar cost. An alltrac requires a few more dollars(i.e. mods) due to the difference in power to weight.

Playfortoday
08-16-2006, 04:31 AM
that guy sure likes his 18's. and he races on 18's? and still makes it into the tens? Did the ST165 have 18's? I only noticed the 204 having 18's, but I didn't read the full site of the links I posted.

Ricksta
08-16-2006, 04:35 AM
theres pics of all of this cars. and they all have 18's

Cavanagh
08-16-2006, 06:15 AM
I'm gonna agree with cavanagh. RWD, lsd, turbo, you just can't go wrong. It's lighter, quicker, and handles probably better. But thats performance talking. If you want a car that can lug a bike around, some luggage, 10 speaker sound system, then obviously the all trac is good for that.

Amen aballz and burynd, pun and the others who know which car is better, though it is impractical at some times. But, the MR2 prolly has a lil more insurance if thats a problem.

Azzazzyn
08-16-2006, 06:42 AM
i don't think 18's are all that big, i have 17s and they look small once on the car

Punisher
08-16-2006, 07:01 AM
Amen aballz and burynd, pun and the others who know which car is better, though it is impractical at some times. But, the MR2 prolly has a lil more insurance if thats a problem.

Honestly I didn't buy an MR2 myself because it would be my only car and I need more space than 2 seats and dink ass trunks. The Celi is that sweet blend between an MR2 and say a supra... it has the space of a supra.. but the balls and agility (almost...) of an mr2..

I like the alltrac as well but after riding in my buddies wrx... I wasn't that impressed with the dry road handling compared to what my celi can do... However, in the snow the awd is super fuckin fun.

I will be so very interested to see what my 6gc will do in the snow with the LSD and a set of beef ass snow/rally style tires..

I've always pictured the Supra to be a straight down the track sort of car..

Hey ricksta.. what about getting a supra instead? You have tons of power options with that..it's RWD but it's front engine.. and it has lots of interior space..

I don't know just a suggestion?

burnyd
08-16-2006, 08:05 AM
900hp at the crank my god thats seriously amazing.

gt4shoak
08-16-2006, 09:27 AM
i think i heard it somewhere but due to the bad 60 foot time was because of the clutch. launching it hard would break the clutch or something.

Ricksta
08-16-2006, 11:35 AM
Hey ricksta.. what about getting a supra instead? You have tons of power options with that..it's RWD but it's front engine.. and it has lots of interior space..

I don't know just a suggestion?

surpas are my dream cars. thier so damn beautiful. but unfortunately getting a loan for 25k is going to be a bitch. so i have to save up the money on my own and thats going to take a good year.

ive thought about it many many times. its just a matter of having the patience to save up the spare cash. its a thought. who knows maybe i will.

2kSnakEater
08-16-2006, 02:45 PM
True.
To a point.
I bet you can't take a hard corner in the wet and get on it at the same time... :D
I can. I might slide a little bit, but I won't go that far. :)



my 265/35/ZR18s in the front say I can! but not if I give it more than 60% power. I cant wait to wear down these front tires, Il be going to 295 size next and Im about to buy some 345 size Drag radials.

burnyd
08-16-2006, 06:37 PM
surpas are my dream cars. thier so damn beautiful. but unfortunately getting a loan for 25k is going to be a bitch. so i have to save up the money on my own and thats going to take a good year.

ive thought about it many many times. its just a matter of having the patience to save up the spare cash. its a thought. who knows maybe i will.


Do you realize the amount of money you have spent on darrens car + Now what you wil spend getting a alltrac then fixing that other celica of yours....... you could of went and bought a good shape body wise NA supra and swapped and would of had everything done for around 15-16kish....?

Morwan
08-16-2006, 07:07 PM
What are you plans for the car? If you're looking for a dragger, go for an mr2. Looking for great handling, autox, rallyx, go with the alltrac.

The MR-2 should handle better than the Alltrac (haven't driven either. :/), making it better for AutoX car. Mid engine layout = win.

MKIV Supras... Meh. They're probably the most overrated cars on the planet. The 2jz is a pretty nice engine, but the Supra itself is too heavy to be anything but a drag car.

burnyd
08-16-2006, 07:09 PM
The MR-2 should handle better than the Alltrac (haven't driven either. :/), making it better for AutoX car. Mid engine layout = win.


then you really have no say driving ethier or then?

Driving both it really comes close....... They both handle very well.

2kSnakEater
08-16-2006, 07:10 PM
Do you realize the amount of money you have spent on Your car + Now what you wil spend getting a alltrac then fixing that other celica of yours....... you could of went and bought a good shape body wise NA supra and swapped and would of had everything done for around 15-16kish....?


Fixed!


and yes there are 2 ways of doing this

*cheap way*
1. Buy a N/A Supra, swap 2JZGTE/6speed combo. Now you have a TT Supra for $10K less but now you have a Supra witch you put $10k more than its worth.

*Right way*
2. save up and buy a True TT/6speed supra that will come with all the suporting equipment like an upgraded fuel pump and better brakes or whatever the N/A Supras didnt get AND if you EVER have to sell it it will be worth what you paid for it plus some if what you did was "tasteful"

just my 2 psi

Morwan
08-16-2006, 07:11 PM
I haven't driven either of them, but I'm 99.9% sure the MR-2 will outhandle the Alltrac on pavement. Just look at AutoX- the AW20 is still the best handling car in its class, whereas the Alltrac isn't even on the map.

Playfortoday
08-16-2006, 07:14 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/Playfortoday/Emoticons/emot-eng101.gif It's "tasteful"

Playfortoday
08-16-2006, 07:15 PM
I haven't driven either of them, but I'm 99.9% sure the MR-2 will outhandle the Alltrac on pavement. Just look at AutoX- the AW20 is still the best handling car in its class, whereas the Alltrac isn't even on the map.

You statistic is a bit off. How many alltracs are still on the road in NA, and of them, how many autocross? Now, how many MR2's are there?

2kSnakEater
08-16-2006, 07:15 PM
thanks play, Il fix it.

Cavanagh
08-16-2006, 08:16 PM
the AW20 is still the best handling.


Are you talking about a SW20 or a AW11? AW11=86-89 MR2's. SW20= 1991-1999. but we only got them till 95' if im correct about how long we have had them. Also, i think the views here are gunna be hella byst and say the alltrac is better and what not, but come on, we all know a MR2 with its midengine, rwd setup would out handle/race a heavy-ass All-Trac.

TheNefariousOne
08-17-2006, 02:07 AM
AW11 with 3sgte = godlike. Imagine mid-engine turbo in a car that weighs right around 2000 lbs.

TNO

alltracman78
08-17-2006, 03:35 AM
How about a AW111 w/3SGTE and AWD?

Ricksta
08-17-2006, 03:41 AM
Do you realize the amount of money you have spent on darrens car + Now what you wil spend getting a alltrac then fixing that other celica of yours....... you could of went and bought a good shape body wise NA supra and swapped and would of had everything done for around 15-16kish....?


ahhhhh i have now scrapped the fixing up an alltrac/mr2 idea. i sure as hell dont have the time for it i can tell you that much. im shopping around for a nice sports bike. 1000cc area :)

trying to start out my credit so getting financed on one would be great. if anything i'll put 2g in front of his face as a down and that'll shut the fucker up about me havin no credit.

Ricksta
08-17-2006, 03:42 AM
o and im going to save for a supra :)

Playfortoday
08-17-2006, 04:11 AM
1) The salemen has no impact on you getting a loan. It is the bank and your credit score.

2) The first thing you ever finance should not be a high risk item like a motorcycle. Your interest rate would be absurd. Try getting a secured crdit card at first and pay it off in full every month.

Aside from my business I have worked in the credit and credit bureau industries my entire profession adult life. Please take it from me.

ciento44
08-17-2006, 04:13 AM
And for god's sake, Ricksta, don't START with a freaking 1000cc bike...

If you want fast, but not OMFGIMGOINGTODIE fast, which you don't, trust me, then look at like R600s and stuff like that.

Still very fast, but nowhere near as dangerous as a 1000cc.

Playfortoday
08-17-2006, 04:16 AM
True. A good starter bike would be any non-fairing 500-650cc bike. It took me 14 years of various 600cc bike before I felt the need to go any faster or have more power. Now I ride a nice, very modified CBR1000RR. I still pee myself every time I spin the rear wheel in third gear when giving it abrupt full throttle.:eek2:

Ricksta
08-17-2006, 04:20 AM
And for god's sake, Ricksta, don't START with a freaking 1000cc bike...

If you want fast, but not OMFGIMGOINGTODIE fast, which you don't, trust me, then look at like R600s and stuff like that.

Still very fast, but nowhere near as dangerous as a 1000cc.

this isnt my first bike....600cc doesnt do anything for me. i got bored with it after an hour and wanted to take the damn thing back. now its 1000cc time :)

as far as getting intrest rates out the ass its really no concern of mine i have hardly any bills. 60k a year and no bills?!?!? bank bank bank!!!

Ricksta
08-17-2006, 04:25 AM
if worst comes to worst i have a co signer

Playfortoday
08-17-2006, 04:27 AM
All these bikes are decent starter bikes, but I would still stay away from full fairing bikes to start:

Ninja 250, Ninja EX 500, Suzuki GS500E, Suzuki GS500E, Suzuki SV650, Suzuki SV650S, Katana 600, Triumph TT600, Triumph Daytona 650, Suzuki V-Strom 650, BMW F650 GS, BMW F650 CS, Ducati Monster 620(sex on wheels for non fairing bikes), Ducati Multistrada 620, Honda Interceptor/VFR 800(Hurricane replacement. Hurricane is a good used bike),

Playfortoday
08-17-2006, 04:33 AM
Oh fuck it all anyway. I forgot about your warped perception of your skills. I am by no means the typical transition from 600 to 1000(14 years), but a fully tweaked 600 still is capable of making me pee. I just love the more torque of a 1000 and decided to move up. You go ahead and continue to be as Cool as Ice. Do what you want to do. I give up wasting time(the 12th time I have said this). Here is a little inspiration for you since you want to go that route:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/Playfortoday/PF_979713Cool-as-Ice-Posters.jpg

Try to get your bike during my vacation Vero in October so I can help arrange your funeral.:)

ciento44
08-17-2006, 04:39 AM
I had a Honda Magna 750, and that bastard was enough to scare the shit out of me if i pushed it, and i've driven some crazy shit.

And that wasn't even technically a sport bike.

Ricksta
08-17-2006, 04:49 AM
Oh fuck it all anyway. I forgot about your warped perception of your skills. I am by no means the typical transition from 600 to 1000(14 years), but a fully tweaked 600 still is capable of making me pee. I just love the more torque of a 1000 and decided to move up. You go ahead and continue to be as Cool as Ice. Do what you want to do. I give up wasting time(the 12th time I have said this). Here is a little inspiration for you since you want to go that route:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/Playfortoday/PF_979713Cool-as-Ice-Posters.jpg

Try to get your bike during my vacation Vero in October so I can help arrange your funeral.:)

ive been riding since i was a kid. dirtbikes growing up and streetbikes when i was old enough. last bike i had i gave to momz. unfortunately some old lady stopped in the middle of the street in front of my mom and momz clipped her ass end sending her and my sister flying. that was a couple of months ago. the bike is totalled. my sister had a few scratches and mom has a bunch of fractures in her foot. i always told her not to ride during the day but noooooo she doesnt listen to me.

i on the other hand only ride at nite. old people are sleeping, and traffic is 75 percent less then earlier hours. this bike would just be an every now and then toy. im more into cars, but sometimes i get the craving to ride a bike. my craving shouldnt starve!
























and im a responsible rider for your info :)

Ricksta
08-17-2006, 04:50 AM
alright stop......collaborate in listen, rick is back with a brand new invention!!!

burnyd
08-17-2006, 05:07 AM
Fixed!


and yes there are 2 ways of doing this

*cheap way*
1. Buy a N/A Supra, swap 2JZGTE/6speed combo. Now you have a TT Supra for $10K less but now you have a Supra witch you put $10k more than its worth.

*Right way*
2. save up and buy a True TT/6speed supra that will come with all the suporting equipment like an upgraded fuel pump and better brakes or whatever the N/A Supras didnt get AND if you EVER have to sell it it will be worth what you paid for it plus some if what you did was "tasteful"

just my 2 psi



your so confident of your noodness dude...... look all jdm clips come with the turbo fuel pump and the better calipers/rotors.

ciento44
08-17-2006, 06:43 AM
your so confident of your noodness dude...... look all jdm clips come with the turbo fuel pump and the better calipers/rotors.

First off, i hope he isn't nude, if that's what you meant.

Second, the second part of the post has no relevance... He didn't mention "JDM" or "clip" anywhere... I know personally, i've seen many more engine/tranny combos for the 2jzgte than i have JDM Supra TT front clips. I know what you meant, and you know what you meant, but still, it doesn't matter.

Riding his nuts is amusing possibly only to you, and to Punisher. Go right ahead and continue, but i know it pisses off Play for one, because it's turning this entire forum into a shithole for you to take out your insecurities on people you think are below you, and i also know for a fact that he's not the only one disgusted with it, even with me not included in the numbers.

It's not helping anything, it's not changing anything, so give it a freaking rest.

I mean, seriously, you're in such a hurry to flame him rather than actually contribute, you spew shitty posts like the one i just quoted, that barely make sense, because of stupid spelling errors.

And now, this thread is going to end up turning into another cesspool for Jeremy to come along and clean up.

bloodredgt
08-17-2006, 06:46 AM
It's not really all that simple to swap a 6 speed into the NA supra. You have to buy a whole new differential and such. If you did swap everything in a NA supra to TT spec, you're pretty much spending more than buying a TT supra.

Supra is a fantastic car. I love it to death and would like to have it as my next car.

But then again, being in the lower class (financially), it's hard to buy a car.

It's probably gonna be after schooling that I get the next whip. But for now, I'm happy with my celica :)

Ricksta
08-17-2006, 11:32 AM
But for now, I'm happy with my celica :)
you should be...your car is beautiful.

T-spoon
08-17-2006, 05:39 PM
Whoa whoa whoa, backing up to a comment about wet and snow traction. Wider is NOT better. Quite the opposite. The wider your tire is and the lighter the car, the more likely you are to skate on top of a sheen of water and have no tire contacting the road at all. There's a reason ice-skates aren't shaped like snowshoes. Better to have all of a 205 touching concrete than none of a 315 or even 225. That's why MR2s are scary, coupled with their weight distribution and how stupid most drivers are in the rain (IE slamming on brakes in front of you because they see a wet spot). Weight transfer with wide tires on water in a not-so-heavy car that is MR is the scary. That's why MR2s are scary in the rain, not because their tires are too small.

Alltrac handling may have a smaller outside dry pavement envelope, but it's more predictable than an MR, it's not going to snap around on you. You can haul on the wheel like FWD, but it won't understeer as badly, and it isn't as likely to snap around on you as the MR2.

Also, I owned a 93 MR2, not just a 91. It felt far less stable at high speed than my all-trac did, though marginally better than the 91. It wasn't as floaty as the MRS, but it was heavier.

Punisher
08-17-2006, 05:45 PM
All these bikes are decent starter bikes, but I would still stay away from full fairing bikes to start:

Ninja 250, Ninja EX 500, Suzuki GS500E, Suzuki GS500E, Suzuki SV650, Suzuki SV650S, Katana 600, Triumph TT600, Triumph Daytona 650, Suzuki V-Strom 650, BMW F650 GS, BMW F650 CS, Ducati Monster 620(sex on wheels for non fairing bikes), Ducati Multistrada 620, Honda Interceptor/VFR 800(Hurricane replacement. Hurricane is a good used bike),

You are more mental than I thought... Maybe it's all the catnip that has gotten to you.

I think you can see clearly now that the ricksta fog has lifted... You just wasted how long typing up all those bikes and you know that NONE of them are cool enough for the rick.

And why did you bring Vanilla Ice into this? He's hella cool... Ricksta is just hella pipe dreaming.

I personally want either a sport touring bike (cheaper insurance because it's a touring... bike..) or a street legal dirt bike.

Punisher
08-17-2006, 05:46 PM
Rick, have you paid the GT off yet? If you have paid it off, do you possess the title? lol

2kSnakEater
08-17-2006, 05:59 PM
God I hope there is a tittle, if there is no Tittle that will be the most fucked up thing ANYBODY can EVER do.

Ricksta
08-17-2006, 09:49 PM
Rick, have you paid the GT off yet? If you have paid it off, do you possess the title? lol

darrens sending the title this week supposively. car will be paid off in 2 weeks. im pretty excited about getting a bike. ive always wanted a brand new one. i look at it this way, i buy all my toys when im young so when im a little older and have more responsibilities money wise i wont have to worry about buying anything nice because ive already bought everything ive wanted. after the bike....will come a supra. then after the supra will come a house :)

Ricksta
08-17-2006, 09:50 PM
God I hope there is a tittle, if there is no Tittle that will be the most fucked up thing ANYBODY can EVER do.

lol if theres no title that car will be stripped quicker then you can say toasted oats :)

balagast
08-17-2006, 10:01 PM
The wider your tire is and the lighter the car, the more likely you are to skate on top of a sheen of water and have no tire contacting the road at all. There's a reason ice-skates aren't shaped like snowshoes. .

The reason ice skates need a sharp edge is b/c it allows for more pressure against the ice surface, which melts the ice. The reason that ice skate works is that the are sliding on a slick WET surface. If they were dull, more surface area touching the ice, then the skate wouldn't slide accross the ice surface b/c it would be unable to melt the ice and create the water the skate needs to slide.

Just a side note, being as the ice skate example was completly wrong. The more area you have the more frictional surface you have, b/c the last thing you want is the tire to slide. Remember the coefficient of static friction is always higher that the coefficient of kinetic.

2kSnakEater
08-17-2006, 10:09 PM
lol if theres no title that car will be stripped quicker then you can say toasted oats :)


and Il help you 120% of the way. I can dibs on the body! LS1 Celica here we go!

burnyd
08-17-2006, 10:57 PM
. I look at it this way, i buy all my toys when im young so when im a little older and have more responsibilities money wise i wont have to worry about buying anything nice because ive already bought everything ive wanted. after the bike....will come a supra. then after the supra will come a house :)

you will change your mind 500 bajillion times.

Ricksta
08-17-2006, 11:10 PM
i know i do that often...lol

Playfortoday
08-18-2006, 02:36 AM
The reason ice skates need a sharp edge is b/c it allows for more pressure against the ice surface, which melts the ice. The reason that ice skate works is that the are sliding on a slick WET surface. If they were dull, more surface area touching the ice, then the skate wouldn't slide accross the ice surface b/c it would be unable to melt the ice and create the water the skate needs to slide.

Just a side note, being as the ice skate example was completly wrong. The more area you have the more frictional surface you have, b/c the last thing you want is the tire to slide. Remember the coefficient of static friction is always higher that the coefficient of kinetic.

We all know how ice skates work.:rolleyes: His example made sense to me, just technically it was not the best choice for an example. A blade is narrow, thus concentrating a large amount of pressure over a tiny surface to melt the ice, thus lubricating the blade a drastically dropping friction. The edge has little to do with anything. The sharp edge only allows for better turning, cutting, and stopping. Actual "skating" occurs an the flat of the blade. The wider that flat, the less you slide, because you are applying less pressure over a greater area, thus not melting the ice sufficiently enough to lubricate the skate. So you are pretty darn close to correct in your explanation.

As for your second paragraph, if you are talking about dry surfaces, your are correct. Because the compounds in the tires are designed to have a high friction level, so the more contact the better. However, cold compounds and moisture between the tire and the surface of the road, especially snow(where the tire doesn't even touch the actual pavement), prevents needed friction. The point of running more narrow tires in snow is to prevent the snow from packing inbetween the tire and the road (tread depth can only take so much before becoming useless). More surface area in this case prevents the pressure needed to cut or compress through the snow to bite into the pavement. The same reason why you will fall through pack when walking, but not when walking in snow shoes. With water situations, think of water skiing. The bigger the surface area to spread your weight, the easier it is to ski.

Bottom line, more contact patch in dry, less in wet(if not able to "pump" away water from the tire treads fast enough[deep water/bald tires] and always less in snow.[unless you have huge knobbies that can stab through snow to the pavement]

Cavanagh
08-18-2006, 03:55 AM
Bottom Line, MR2 Turbo.

85gtsblackman
08-18-2006, 03:55 AM
3rd gen ownz :hehe:

alltracman78
08-18-2006, 04:01 AM
Yeah, them 6 wheel drive, V5 mid engined 3rd gens are teh shite.

85gtsblackman
08-18-2006, 04:12 AM
u forgot my vvtli carb injection super quad squencail turbo

Playfortoday
08-18-2006, 04:30 AM
Bottom Line, MR2 Turbo.

I wish I had the same gift of getting to the point that you do. That is exactly what I meant. Thanks for contributing with your well substantiated and researched conclusion.:rolleyes:

burnyd
08-18-2006, 09:42 AM
Yeah, them 6 wheel drive, V5 mid engined 3rd gens are teh shite.


alltrac dolly?

aballz
08-18-2006, 10:49 AM
MR2 FTW! AT for the practical!

2kSnakEater
08-18-2006, 02:20 PM
Play is right, Im used to big 3000lbs+ cars, the 315 is uer nice for something that big, BUT when you get into the smaller lighter cars (MR2) the 315 size tire might make it "float" on top of water. Good observation Play.

Azzazzyn
08-19-2006, 12:03 AM
s13 240 coupe with a silvia facelift

Ricksta
08-19-2006, 12:15 AM
wtf is up with the poll?!?!?!

Morwan
08-19-2006, 12:48 AM
Starlet with a 2UR-FSE in it.

ciento44
08-19-2006, 07:10 AM
s13 240 coupe with a silvia facelift

I saw an S14 with an RB swap tonite.... was badass as all hell. :) Same color as yours, too.

Azzazzyn
08-19-2006, 03:54 PM
I saw an S14 with an RB swap tonite.... was badass as all hell. :) Same color as yours, too.
tuesday I'll have the new control and trailing arms on, along with the knuckle and ruca and toe arms. Then I'll have aroun 2500 left to spend on my car to get it back to where it was

burnyd
08-19-2006, 08:12 PM
^^ All 240s are that color.

alltracman78
08-19-2006, 10:30 PM
wtf is up with the poll?!?!?!
It gives members more options....

:hehe:

Azzazzyn
08-19-2006, 10:56 PM
^^ All 240s are that color.
i see red green and black ones, never seen another concord gray one

burnyd
08-19-2006, 11:23 PM
Universal 240 color!

Cavanagh
08-20-2006, 05:36 AM
I wish I had the same gift of getting to the point that you do. That is exactly what I meant. Thanks for contributing with your well substantiated and researched conclusion.:rolleyes:
Jesus, calm down killer.

Playfortoday
08-20-2006, 05:38 AM
Eat me. Contribute or just vote and move on.

Azzazzyn
08-20-2006, 03:35 PM
cav better watch out, play is a nazi, nazi's a freaky sex people, and his idea of foreplay is jamming a gasline up your ass.

85gtsblackman
08-20-2006, 08:39 PM
< drifts away after that post

BEAMS
08-23-2006, 03:59 AM
my official vote-
http://aardvark.co.nz/pjet/images/jetscooter.jpg

Cavanagh
08-23-2006, 04:26 AM
I'm with BEAMS on this one hahaha.

gt4wannabe
08-23-2006, 04:36 AM
lol i think that thing would be kinda scary to ride on lol.

lumbercis
08-23-2006, 05:52 AM
Not really much to add at this point that hasn't been said already or in the alltrac.net thread. All around the mr2 is probably the better performer. I would just like to add a couple thoughts though.

1) That video of Pat racing the mr2 is a little misleading. IIRC, he was racing Vince aka Talent. The fastest mr2. At least the fastest to post a time slip on the 1/4 mile registry. Also, at those levels I wouldn't say one car had more or less money in it. It takes a lot of trial and error, breaking stuff etc. to get to those power levels. 9's in the 1/4 mile arent cheap for anyone.

2) It's also a little misleading to judge the alltrac's potential by comparing our racing records to other cars. You can count on one hand the number of serious racers using alltracs.

3) Someone earlier mentioned 60ft times. If you compare the similar AWD DSM platforms, you see that AWD is capable of some pretty mean 60ft's: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/timeslips.php
1.5s and 1.6s are common and more than one person has hit 1.3's. Faster than any mr2 to date. Also, take a look at the mod lists. They have to pour extra money into replacing driveline parts that alltracs and even mr2's for the most part never have to worry about. That's why i think the money game comes out pretty even at the higher levels. It's at the lower levels where it's more expensive to mod a toyota then other makes.

4) All that in mind, i think it's really weight holding the alltracs back. You'll notice in the DSM times that virtually the entire first page is the lighter 1st gen DSMs. I think if Pat was willing to go more extreme with his weight reduction, he may embarass alot of mr2s. But again, it's a little unrealistic to talk about the extremes. Any car can be made to perform if you are willing to pursue it enough. But at the light to moderate tuning levels an mr2 will out perform a 'trac on any kind of pavement. Thats what it was made for. That being said, in anything less than optimal road conditions, the alltrac outperforms the mr2. Thats what IT was made for. The mr2 has the unfortunate distinction of being most likely to wrap itself around a telephone pole.

Idiot Stick
03-11-2009, 12:23 AM
Looking at the dates, this was posted in 2006? For some random as fuck reason this was put back to the top, without any replies?

Im fucking LOST.

Luni
03-11-2009, 12:26 AM
Wow... Talk about epic thread revival failure batman.

Idiot Stick
03-11-2009, 12:37 AM
Hmm, now that i think about it nobody is going to beleive me that it was at the top of the page, and it had a date of today in the topic listing under last reply.

And it showed the poster before me as the last reply.

Fuckin awkward...!

Okctrd
03-11-2009, 04:17 AM
i bet someone must of voted and that's what made it move to the top.?

grayscale
03-11-2009, 05:03 AM
Wow... Talk about epic thread revival failure batman.
Figures it had to be one of Dicksta's threads too! :lolhittin

Cavanagh
03-11-2009, 05:49 AM
Is there anyway Luni can put this thread back in the 06' threads?
:hehe:

Ryan
03-11-2009, 06:03 AM
Bad memories cavy? lol

T-spoon
03-11-2009, 07:13 AM
I just wanna know, who in the WORLD could have predicted that Rick wouldn't finish this project and sell it? I'm personally quite shocked. :inout:

MrWOT
03-16-2009, 05:30 AM
Here's why I like the alltrac. A 3sgte can make more power then you can put to two street tires. ;)

mr2trd3
03-17-2009, 11:49 PM
There is so much misleading boyracer opinions in this thread. LMAO.


Here's why I like the alltrac. A 3sgte can make more power then you can put to two street tires. ;)

Good argument *implied sarcasm*. Explain why Supras have no issues putting down 2JZ power on two street tires...??!?!?!?!??!

Are you admitting that your idea of "performance" is limited to drag racing or are you simply a fanboy?

GT4SOM
03-18-2009, 12:10 AM
I guess I'll vote since this is up.

MrWOT
03-18-2009, 12:34 AM
Good argument *implied sarcasm*. Explain why Supras have no issues putting down 2JZ power on two street tires...??!?!?!?!??!

Are you admitting that your idea of "performance" is limited to drag racing or are you simply a fanboy?

The irony of your statement is beyond words :laugh:

mr2trd3
03-18-2009, 01:54 PM
The irony of your statement is beyond words :laugh:

You lost me, but I'll go ahead and assume that you're just an AT fanboy.

mr2trd3
03-18-2009, 02:01 PM
My personal opinion is...

...both cars are great. However, if you want something purely for sports driving (ie. noisy and uncomfortable ride, limited space, etc), I don't see any reasons for choosing an Alltrac over the MR2 or the 10 Gajillion cc Bike. Being that this IS a Celica forum, I'm a little surprised by the split in the poll.

T-spoon
03-18-2009, 06:42 PM
You lost me, but I'll go ahead and assume that you're just an AT fanboy.

And your assumptions are hilarious. If you don't know anything about a person, don't make stupid assumptions. Mr. WOT is out of your league.

There are plenty of reasons the alltracs are better situationally than an MR2. My reasons are based on owning/driving two generations of MR2s, two generations of Alltracs and two generations of turbo supras.

YOU sir, are the one that sounds like a fanboy. Are you not aware how ridiculous it is to refute the alltrac by saying that not everything is a drag race? DUH? The benefits of traction from AWD are not most seen in drag racing, and he wasn't claiming they were. Not to mention the *wink* smiley he put on it. Don't be a goober.

cms-gt4
03-18-2009, 06:58 PM
Both are great cars. /thread.

mr2trd3
03-18-2009, 07:58 PM
And your assumptions are hilarious. If you don't know anything about a person, don't make stupid assumptions. Mr. WOT is out of your league.

There are plenty of reasons the alltracs are better situationally than an MR2. My reasons are based on owning/driving two generations of MR2s, two generations of Alltracs and two generations of turbo supras.

YOU sir, are the one that sounds like a fanboy. Are you not aware how ridiculous it is to refute the alltrac by saying that not everything is a drag race? DUH? The benefits of traction from AWD are not most seen in drag racing, and he wasn't claiming they were. Not to mention the *wink* smiley he put on it. Don't be a goober.

My point is, just because it has AWD, it doesn't mean it's the shiet. IF you actually make sense, 911, Corvette, Viper, Supra, F430, etc, etc, etc owners should really try out a Jeep for performance. Sure 4WD CAN be useful for racing applications (ie. Subaru STi, Mitsu Evo, Lamborghini Murciélago/Gallardo, Nissan GTR, Porsche 911, etc.), but those systems are far far superior to the 80s/90s technology found in the AT/GT-Four.

You don't have to take my word for it, but a stock AT handles like a fat pig compared to a stock MR2. A modified AT is just a faster pig, still a pig nonetheless (relative to the MR2). That was MY experience. If you feel the need to justify the superiority of AWD in drag racing, try YouTube'ing the clip of a Celica GT-Four (ST205) vs a Gen3 MR2.

Can anyone provide any argument for why an AT will be a better performer over the MR2? The AT/GT-Four's old tech AWD is nothing to blow your horns about.


Both are great cars. /thread.

I agree, but when it comes down to strictly a performance comparison (not drag racing exclusive), the polls on this Celica forum says it all.

MrWOT
03-18-2009, 08:12 PM
While it doesn't have active differentials, the awd system is perfectly adaquate, especially with a rear torsen installed.

The MR2 is a better performer stock under non-traction limited conditions. If you can't get an alltrac to handle properly, that is your fault as the driver, not the cars.

cms-gt4
03-18-2009, 08:25 PM
The problem with the alltrac is not its VC center diff system as much as toyota numbed the car and took out many of the driver-centric feeling to market the car as a luxury awd car. There is a very raw responsive car in there, you just have to dig around and find it.

Sure electronic diff systems have their advantages, but a driver who understands how these things works and how to adapt to them can make these cars turn very quickly. The real flaw with the alltrac diff system is that no one wants to make a front lsd for them for a fair price. The front lsd becomes an issue on corner exit, and lots of power.

There is an electronic diff system for the gtfour. The problem is is costs ~14k just for the center diff.

In the end it really does not matter what car is better at its limits of tuning or even that much stock vs stock. What really matters is you are happy with which one you pick and that you can out drive who ever challenges you in what ever other vehicle they have chosen.

T-spoon
03-19-2009, 03:08 AM
My point is, just because it has AWD, it doesn't mean it's the shiet. IF you actually make sense, 911, Corvette, Viper, Supra, F430, etc, etc, etc owners should really try out a Jeep for performance. Sure 4WD CAN be useful for racing applications (ie. Subaru STi, Mitsu Evo, Lamborghini Murciélago/Gallardo, Nissan GTR, Porsche 911, etc.), but those systems are far far superior to the 80s/90s technology found in the AT/GT-Four.

You don't have to take my word for it, but a stock AT handles like a fat pig compared to a stock MR2. A modified AT is just a faster pig, still a pig nonetheless (relative to the MR2). That was MY experience. If you feel the need to justify the superiority of AWD in drag racing, try YouTube'ing the clip of a Celica GT-Four (ST205) vs a Gen3 MR2.

Can anyone provide any argument for why an AT will be a better performer over the MR2? The AT/GT-Four's old tech AWD is nothing to blow your horns about.



I agree, but when it comes down to strictly a performance comparison (not drag racing exclusive), the polls on this Celica forum says it all.

You SERIOUSLY need to learn some reading comprehension. To make this absolutely clear for you, I am NOT talking about drag racing, you're the one that keeps talking about drag racing.

And no, I won't take your word for it. You seem to have also missed the part where I've owned both cars. In fact, to spell it out even further, I've had a 91 MR2 turbo, a 93 MR2 turbo, a 2002 MRS Spyder, a 90 alltrac (stock suspension), an 88 alltrac, an 88 supra turbo (modified suspension) and daily drove a 93 supra turbo (modified suspension) for 2-3 months.

Comparing a Jeep to an alltrac is about the stupidest thing I've ever seen in this forum, and I'm including Ricksta's junk.

In case you still don't understand what I'm saying, the alltrac is a superior platform for rally racing and all types of driving that relate to it, which suprisingly is what it was built for. IT'S A RALLY CAR. THE MR2 IS A SPORTS CAR. Remember that. This subject has been beaten and beaten to death again and again around here, I just take exception to your know-it-all attitude when you're wrong and not even making the effort to understand what someone is saying before making snide remarks.

grayscale
03-19-2009, 03:21 AM
Funny that Toyota would choose the GT4 over the MR2 to rule the track for so many years, don't ya think?

grayscale
03-19-2009, 03:26 AM
...misleading boyracer opinions...
Funny term to use considering some of us have been driving since you were in first grade.

cms-gt4
03-19-2009, 04:19 AM
Considering who made this thread and where it has gone, should this not be moved to the "Ricksta" section?

polish dude
03-19-2009, 05:32 AM
here is my expierience. took my alltrac to my first autocross on stock suspension and beat my friend (mr2 with upgreaded suspension) who's been going to autocross for a long time. also the consistensy counts too. i finished every race with times close to each other while he spins out every other race.

i was gonna buy an mr2 but after driving one i decided to stick to alltracs.

mr2trd3
03-19-2009, 05:31 PM
Comparing a Jeep to an alltrac is about the stupidest thing I've ever seen in this forum, and I'm including Ricksta's junk.

That comparison was only made to encourage you to explain in detail why an AT is a better performance platform than the MR2. Yet you continue to fail at that task. I can point out two obvious disadvantages that the AT has in comparison to the MR2. 1) Weight and 2) Weight distribution. Please don't get started with comparing gutted full-race examples.

mr2trd3
03-19-2009, 05:33 PM
IT'S A RALLY CAR.

Believe me, the production AT is far from the WRC Celica. About as similar as a production MKIV Supra is to the JGTC GT500 Supra (all versions from turbo 4 to V8 versions).

mr2trd3
03-19-2009, 05:35 PM
Funny that Toyota would choose the GT4 over the MR2 to rule the track for so many years, don't ya think?

Explain when and where Toyota chose the GT4 over the MR2, and, more importantly, when the Celica "ruled" the track for so many years. Please don't bring up your rally BS, too. How many AT owners rally? Besides which, the OP asked for opinions for a street car.

You make me laugh.

mr2trd3
03-19-2009, 05:39 PM
here is my expierience. took my alltrac to my first autocross on stock suspension and beat my friend (mr2 with upgreaded suspension) who's been going to autocross for a long time. also the consistensy counts too. i finished every race with times close to each other while he spins out every other race.

i was gonna buy an mr2 but after driving one i decided to stick to alltracs.

Both of your arguments are driver-related and not problems with the car. IF you in fact beat a modified MR2 with a stock AT...

1) Your friend can't drive for shiet,
2) Your friend let you win out of pity, OR
3) You're a lying sack of shiet.

FYI, go back to some early 90s Motortrend, Car and Driver, etc etc etc. Please take some time to read the specs on the SW20 and ST185. Numbers don't lie.

Terracar
03-19-2009, 06:06 PM
My 2 cents:

I have driven both - I like to drive quite harshly - especially in the corners/twisties. The Alltrac has more understeer yes, but I can mash teh crap out of it and not crap my pants. I don't like the feeling of the Mr2 at high speeds - feels like a sunfire on the freeway at high speeds.

I don't like the nature of the MR2 - took me a while to figure out why - the mid engine - the engine wants to be in front - a whole new dynamic to driving it spiritedly in teh turns/twisties not to mention the suspension flaws/characteristics of the 91-92* Mr2s. Bottom line I know I would push it too far one day and most likely take myself out.

The Alltrac is much more stable at high speed - just has a nice planted feeling. Corners I can mash all I want, may get a little loose at times, but can be easily corrected without the ass end wanting to drive for me.

I will say on the streets not at the limits the MR2 is extremely fun and exhilerating, but I can say the same about the Alltrac.

-Terracar
*corrected my mistake - used to Alltracs :duh:

Cavanagh
03-19-2009, 09:02 PM
a whole new dynamic to driving it spiritedly in teh turns/twisties not to mention the suspension flaws/characteristics of the 90-91 Mr2s.
ahem, 91 and 92's in the U.S. :eek:

Terracar
03-19-2009, 09:04 PM
Thanks Cav - too used to the Alltrac. Error corrected.

-Terracar

mr2trd3
03-19-2009, 09:33 PM
Thanks Cav - too used to the Alltrac. Error corrected.

-Terracar

Actually, for the purists, the 91-92 suspensions are actually better. Not flawed.

T-spoon
03-20-2009, 06:03 AM
Actually, for the purists, the 91-92 suspensions are actually better. Not flawed.

One could say the same thing about the alltrac AWD system versus newer higher tech systems (and I recall you putting down the lower tech "purist" alltrac setup). But then, one would only do such a thing to rationalize their point, much like you do over and over.

Give it a rest. You're like talking to a MKIV supra owner. Yuck.

grayscale
03-20-2009, 06:22 AM
Explain when and where Toyota chose the GT4 over the MR2, and, more importantly, when the Celica "ruled" the track for so many years. Please don't bring up your rally BS, too. How many AT owners rally? Besides which, the OP asked for opinions for a street car.

You make me laugh.
Wow, do you ever stop to think before you run off at the mouth?
Here is a better question for you- Explain when and where Toyota ever chose to use use an MR2 in any of their race teams? :duh:
BTW, the AT was built first for the track then for the street unlike the MR2. My question to you is, if the MR2 is such a superior platform, why didn't they ever use it? And don't try the "oh street and track are different" garbage. Where do think all the nifty things we use are developed at?

mr2trd3
03-20-2009, 01:58 PM
Seems to me that Alltrac fans have a difficult time understanding the laws of physics.

Sharing the same engine,
Car1: 3300lbs, AWD
Car2: 2800lbs, MR

Clearly, from simply looking at the weight and drivetrain layout, it's not much of a comparison. Car2 WILL obviously perform better. The AWD will have a slight (very slight at that) advantage over the MR in terms of traction, but the additional weight pretty much negates any advantage of AWD. Whether it is drag racing, road racing, etc, traction will ultimately come down to tire choice.

Beyond this, the sole argument I'm getting from you Alltrac fans is that the MR2 is difficult to drive. Yes, it does take some advanced skills to control an MR at the limits and, yes, any idiot can push an AWD car (ie. Evo, STi, GTR, etc). That's a driver issue, not a car issue.

As I've said before, comparing car to car, I don't see where the Alltrac will be a better performer EXCEPT (as many have already stated) in traction-limited condition in which tires cannot help, such as rallying.

Last call...can any of you AT fans give any logical reasons why the Alltrac might topple the MR2 in performance other than rally and driver skills (or lack thereof)?

Alltrac >>>>>>>>>>> MR2. Happy?

Terracar
03-20-2009, 03:34 PM
Sadly your use of "logical" is flawed.

I provided logical reasons why I prefer the Alltrac over the MR2. If I could drive on a closed course in a controlled environment - I would certainly take the MR2, however we all know too well the uncontrollable nature of everyday streets/drivers.

Personally I would agree on paper and crunching the numbers the MR2 would/should out perform the Alltrac - never said anything to the contrary. The driver experience however is highly debatable as each driver has different comfort zones.

Sadly, in my opinion, I must say you fail - placing "Alltrac >>>>>>>>>>> MR2. Happy?" just for the mere sake of ending a debate on the internet is just plain pansy ass. You either believe your own BS or you don't - if you have to change just to get along why bother?

-Terracar

cms-gt4
03-20-2009, 03:55 PM
Seems to me that Alltrac fans have a difficult time understanding the laws of physics.

Sharing the same engine,
Car1: 3300lbs, AWD
Car2: 2800lbs, MR



The MR2 is a better handling car stock for stock, but don't think throwing the weight out there is the actual defining factor as to why. That is bullshit. There are plenty of modern cars that weight more than the MR2 that will hand the MR2 its ass. So do not use that data to prove your point. (Z06, Carrera GT, GTR, & the 370Z, which all weigh over 3000lbs.) The suspension, and steering system as well as the weight "BALANCE" are more key factors as to why its better handling.

Your data is actually wrong as well. When I used to post on the old MR2 forums they were finding many of the turbo models real weight to be closer to 2900-3000lbs. Same goes for the gtfours. There are so many different models and trim levels that that weight does not apply. There are some models that weight over 3400lb and some that weigh closer to 3200lbs the 92-93 models are rumored to be lighter than the 90-91 models. There is a model that weights much less from the factory but it was not offered in the US.

The MR2 and gtfour can both be stripped down to some respectable weights. For those of use that get the corner weights of our cars with some minor weight reduction some have seen 2800lbs and less. Comparing to previous stripped GTS, it has been speculated that the weight could be stripped down to 2400lbs for the alltrac.

I have driven both a rev3 powered MR2 and a Rev3 powered alltrac. Both have coilovers, weight reduction and sticky tires. Both were great cars, that just had two different feels. The alltrac had more turning grip, but the mr2's turning in was quicker. The alltrac needs some lighter custom front suspension conponents to help it with unsprung weight.

Even though mr2trd3 does not believe it the alltrac has the same mechanical bits of the rally car, the car is a Homologation special and the rally car had to be based off the production car. The alltrac's suspension is heavy. It is designed to be tough and withstand rally. It is also designed with a lot movement for uneven surfaces and then on top of that it was softened and numbed further since Toyota marketed it as a luxury car.

From the old FIA rally rules.

In order for a vehicle to be able to take part in FIA approved races it has to be produced to a minimum number of units by its manufacturer, 5000 for the GroupN class, 2500 for the GroupA class and 200 for the now extinct GroupB. These units have to be similar, in aspect and mechanically, to the ones that will effectively take part in racing i.e. if the racing vehicle has a 4 wheel drive transmission so must also have the homologation base vehicle. Certain mechanical and electronic parts that are present in the racing vehicle must also be present in the homologation base unit. If modifications are required to the competition version then a new series of street going vehicles that include them will have to be produced. These cars were bred by racing for racing.

/\ Ala Carlos Sainz edition.

Frankly it feels that you have less interest in using factual data and testing in finding out what car has what benefits where but instead you are possibly a troll who would rather encourage forum drama.

mr2trd3
03-20-2009, 04:35 PM
Sadly your use of "logical" is flawed.

I provided logical reasons why I prefer the Alltrac over the MR2. If I could drive on a closed course in a controlled environment - I would certainly take the MR2, however we all know too well the uncontrollable nature of everyday streets/drivers.

Personally I would agree on paper and crunching the numbers the MR2 would/should out perform the Alltrac - never said anything to the contrary. The driver experience however is highly debatable as each driver has different comfort zones.

Sadly, in my opinion, I must say you fail - placing "Alltrac >>>>>>>>>>> MR2. Happy?" just for the mere sake of ending a debate on the internet is just plain pansy ass. You either believe your own BS or you don't - if you have to change just to get along why bother?

-Terracar

Good response. No sarcasm here, I'm being honest. About my statement to end the debate, believe me, there is no point in getting Alltrac owners to admit that the MR2 is an overall better performance platform for those not wanting to rally.

grayscale
03-20-2009, 04:37 PM
I'm curious, what do you think "rally" is?

mr2trd3
03-20-2009, 04:53 PM
The MR2 is a better handling car stock for stock, but don't think throwing the weight out there is the actual defining factor as to why. That is bullshit. There are plenty of modern cars that weight more than the MR2 that will hand the MR2 its ass. So do not use that data to prove your point. (Z06, Carrera GT, GTR, & the 370Z, which all weigh over 3000lbs.) The suspension, and steering system as well as the weight "BALANCE" are more key factors as to why its better handling.

Your argument is ridiculous. Are you, in fact, saying an Alltrac is in the same class as those cars you mentioned? No shit, Sherlock, not only are those cars of a different price bracket, they are also 10+ years newer. Comparing the MR2 to the Alltrac is totally reasonable as both were released in the early 90s and both were priced similarly (the MR2 the cheaper of the two). You are comparing apples to oranges, unfortunately.


Your data is actually wrong as well. When I used to post on the old MR2 forums they were finding many of the turbo models real weight to be closer to 2900-3000lbs. Same goes for the gtfours. There are so many different models and trim levels that that weight does not apply. There are some models that weight over 3400lb and some that weigh closer to 3200lbs the 92-93 models are rumored to be lighter than the 90-91 models. There is a model that weights much less from the factory but it was not offered in the US.

What's your point? Are you trying to argue that the Alltrac CAN be light if you found the rare mysterious "light" model and the MR2 CAN be heavy if loaded up? No shit. The numbers I gave are estimates which are reasonably accurate. Even IF you were able to secure a "light" Alltrac model, it will still weigh more than the heaviest MKII MR2. Period.


The MR2 and gtfour can both be stripped down to some respectable weights. For those of use that get the corner weights of our cars with some minor weight reduction some have seen 2800lbs and less. Comparing to previous stripped GTS, it has been speculated that the weight could be stripped down to 2400lbs for the alltrac.

Don't bring up stripping shit. Are you a fucking Honda boy? Gonna strip your DD so you can get to the grocery store faster? Well, guess what, a stripped SW20 can get below what a stripped Alltrac. So what then????


I have driven both a rev3 powered MR2 and a Rev3 powered alltrac. Both have coilovers, weight reduction and sticky tires. Both were great cars, that just had two different feels. The alltrac had more turning grip, but the mr2's turning in was quicker. The alltrac needs some lighter custom front suspension conponents to help it with unsprung weight.

Exactly. With the Alltrac, in comparison to the MKII MR2, you cannot deny the added weight as a HUGE disadvantage.


Even though mr2trd3 does not believe it the alltrac has the same mechanical bits of the rally car, the car is a Homologation special and the rally car had to be based off the production car. The alltrac's suspension is heavy. It is designed to be tough and withstand rally. It is also designed with a lot movement for uneven surfaces and then on top of that it was softened and numbed further since Toyota marketed it as a luxury car.

From the old FIA rally rules.


/\ Ala Carlos Sainz edition.

Do YOU, sir, own the CS edition? Oh, I believe we never got the CS edition in the US and that car is rare as hell everywhere else in the world. You're basically, pathetically, trying to use a "modified" example to represent a realistic example. That's like 911 fans saying that a Carrera 4 will dominate a Corvette ZO6 at the tracks JUST because the 911 GT2 will. I hope this was easy for you to understand.


Frankly it feels that you have less interest in using factual data and testing in finding out what car has what benefits where but instead you are possibly a troll who would rather encourage forum drama.

Actually, I am interested in the truth, but apparently the truth hurts you die-hard fans too much. How hard is it to admit that the AT may not perform as well as its lighter, more nimble brother? Are you the kind who gets your panties all scrunched up because you cannot do something better than your brother or sister? Well, don't be. You can't always win. That's life.

mr2trd3
03-20-2009, 04:55 PM
I'm curious, what do you think "rally" is?

Watch WRC much? Yea, didn't think too many AT owners actually watch OR participate. They just want to brag.

grayscale
03-20-2009, 06:12 PM
So that's all you know of rally sport? Guess you're the one who doesn't know much.

T-spoon
03-20-2009, 06:42 PM
MR2TRD3, you do not belong on this site. You are forgetting how diverse we are. This is not MR2OC, this is not Supraforums, this is is not 6gc.net, this is not alltrac.net, this is not newcelica.org. There are MANY MR2 owners here. The site owner is one, I have been one, and not for 2 days, for a significant amount of time. This is NOT a site of blindly loyal fanboys. Your attitude is seriously out of place, out of line, and out of time. GTFO or STFU. People have gone into the technical aspects of this argument and all you can do is throw petty insults back and keep ranting about how the MR2 is just the best. I love the MR2, most of this site loves the MR2 and respects it, but you just need to shut up and go away because you are way past the point of reasonable debate and are just being a forum turd just because you can. If you can't discuss something like an adult, just stop. This isn't your mommy's front yard. ENOUGH.

cms-gt4
03-20-2009, 06:46 PM
Your argument is ridiculous. Are you, in fact, saying an Alltrac is in the same class as those cars you mentioned? No shit, Sherlock, not only are those cars of a different price bracket, they are also 10+ years newer. Comparing the MR2 to the Alltrac is totally reasonable as both were released in the early 90s and both were priced similarly (the MR2 the cheaper of the two). You are comparing apples to oranges, unfortunately.

I never said either of those cars are in the same class as those cars. I was merely illustrating that suspension design is a factor of why those heavier cars are faster than your mr2, which is the same reason I was stating that a stock mr2 can handle better than a stock alltrac--it has a more sporty suspension system. So it is a valid argument.

And if you are going to be a whiny bitch about classing the cars together you can't class a mid engined rwd car with a front engine awd car, just because they were made around the same time. You could not class a ealy 90s audi quattro with a MR2, so by your stated logic how can you class a mr2 with an alltrac?




What's your point? Are you trying to argue that the Alltrac CAN be light if you found the rare mysterious "light" model and the MR2 CAN be heavy if loaded up? No shit. The numbers I gave are estimates which are reasonably accurate. Even IF you were able to secure a "light" Alltrac model, it will still weigh more than the heaviest MKII MR2. Period.


Do you have the facts? You speculate. So if the heaviest Mk2 mr2 has been found to reach up to 3000 lbs how does that weight less than a Rally Edition of the 185 that weighs in at just under 3000lbs. And that is not a stripped model. And that is not a race car, that is a showroom model. The fact is, the only difference in the rally model, is no power anything, or luxury items, no radio, no abs, and is a narrow body. That is a not a whole lot of a difference from an alltrac that came loaded, which can have those items removed and still not be a stripped car.

A member who actually races his car has had his car weighted at 2800lbs and that was with only removing the AC, sunroof, powered seats rear seats etc... Not really a stripped car since his class he races in does not allow stripping the interior.



Don't bring up stripping shit. Are you a fucking Honda boy? Gonna strip your DD so you can get to the grocery store faster? Well, guess what, a stripped SW20 can get below what a stripped Alltrac. So what then????

I bring up stripping because you are trying to compare two cars racing. You did not set any rules or stipulations to what a car can or can not modify. I already stated that a MR2 handles better stock. I then stated what kind of improvements can be made to make an alltrac handle better yet I never stated that at their fullest race prepped limits that it can handle better than an MR2. You called the alltrac a fat pig, I was simply explaining that its not as fat as you think and that it has potential to be respectably light.

I see no reason to strip my car. I plan on reducing the weight to about 3000 with AC, because it is a street car. My car already weights 3200lbs and I have hardly done anything to it, and it is loaded with all the exttra heavy crap.



Exactly. With the Alltrac, in comparison to the MKII MR2, you cannot deny the added weight as a HUGE disadvantage.

It is a disadvantage, but not necessarily a huge one which is one of the things I was expressing with the other heavier cars I listed. Its about suspension design. An alltrac with a decent suspension can out handle a stock MR2. Which should help you understand that the weight is not as huge as a disadvantage as you keep claiming.

If weight was so much of an issue the Mk1 or MRS would be a better race car than the Mk2. Oh wait...


Do YOU, sir, own the CS edition? Oh, I believe we never got the CS edition in the US and that car is rare as hell everywhere else in the world. You're basically, pathetically, trying to use a "modified" example to represent a realistic example. That's like 911 fans saying that a Carrera 4 will dominate a Corvette ZO6 at the tracks JUST because the 911 GT2 will. I hope this was easy for you to understand.

Its not easy to understand due to your logical fallacies and your poor ability to communicate your point as well the obvious misunderstandings you have from my responses due to your poor reading comprehension.

I have the next best thing to a CS edition. I have many of the same parts that the CS edition (even the gearbox) has, but even better I have the REV 3 st205 engine and much better handling bits.

The only reason I mentioned the CS model is due to the fact that you claimed that the rally cars were not the same as the production car. The CS model was made due to some changes Toyota wanted for their WRC car so they had to produce 5000 units of the revised RC/CS/GA model to compete with the new design. Bringing up the CS model had nothing to competing with an MR2 it had to do with explaining your statement of misinformation about the FIA regulations, which held true up to the early WRC model st205. FIA eventually changed the rules which is why there was no longer a WRC model, and they switched to a Corolla.

So in other words, your full of shit and I was just pointing that out, not using it as an example as a car that competes with the Mr2 but just to illustrate that you are wrong.



Actually, I am interested in the truth, but apparently the truth hurts you die-hard fans too much.

If you were so interested in the truth you would not be arguing with speculation and incorrect info. You would be trying to gather other MR2 and alltrac people to perhaps take their cars to a testing ground, instead your magazine racing.


How hard is it to admit that the AT may not perform as well as its lighter, more nimble brother? Are you the kind who gets your panties all scrunched up because you cannot do something better than your brother or sister? Well, don't be. You can't always win. That's life.

There are people who have admitted it. I have admitted it while also stating what can be done to an alltrac to put them on more equal grounds.

The problem you have is that I called you out on some of your incorrect info/logic and you tried to turn it into a fanboi argument. It is obvious that you have your "OPINIONS" on the matter and are interested in just being right regardless the situation presented as well as liking to stir the pot. The only argument you can state is trying to defame others in hopes of looking like your right just because of the way you respond to them. Your sauce sir, is the weak stuff.

mr2trd3
03-20-2009, 08:47 PM
Your sauce sir, is the weak stuff.

'Nuff said. It was good while it lasted, gents. :)

Cliff notes: Anyone interested in whether the MR2 or the Alltrac is better, just read post #168.

Chris
03-20-2009, 09:16 PM
Honestly, going back to the poll, I think me and the three other people who voted for the Harrier Jet were the winners. Harrier Jet makes all of your arguments invalid.

The Captain
02-15-2010, 04:29 AM
Holy thread revival batman! Just found it. Funny shit!

Luni
02-15-2010, 10:40 PM
Late, after the fact, but Ive never seen an Alltrac/GT4 GT series car.

Ive seen SEVERAL based on the SW20 platform.

Bottom line is, in most weather circumstances (where it matters to be driving your car fast anyway), the MR2 is a superior platform.

If it wasnt, more exotic supercars would be even heavier and have AWD.

And even then, the exotics that have AWD also are mid engined :)

Kanoodle
02-16-2010, 01:48 AM
Some of you need to let Luni take you on a canyon run in the SW20. You may be shocked at what it does ;) Ask Baby Bear, he will tell ya.

But with that said the MR2 does need more driving skill to drive it hard in the twisties without mishaps.

The Captain
02-16-2010, 05:31 AM
Never worry about snap oversteer in my car. . .
I think this is a mute point. The only similarities between these cars is the engine. Is a car that's easier to drive at the limit make it better? Or one that requires different skills and is more challenging at the limit? Jet fighters are agile because they are inherently unstable. Does this make them better than an SR-71?
Both have advantages and disadvantages. Like what you like. I dig 'em both.

I take comfort in owning the superior platform. LOL!:look:

goretro77
02-16-2010, 01:07 PM
First rule of mid engine cars - when driving 10/10ths through twisties:
Never Lift!

:shiftyninja:

cms-gt4
02-16-2010, 01:46 PM
For your viewing entertainment.

st185RC vs mr2 vs all the Japan GT cars of the time on a track.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSRX67SPS78

T-spoon
02-16-2010, 05:49 PM
Hahahahah, stock suspension is sooo bad on the track. Cool video :)

goretro77
02-16-2010, 07:17 PM
the touge. MR2 vs Skyline GTR R34:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k2nbUGFPfM

Luni
02-16-2010, 09:14 PM
I cant view videos who wins?

donteatbugs
02-16-2010, 09:21 PM
the rx7 in cmsgt4 and the r34 in the touge

cms-gt4
02-16-2010, 09:24 PM
the rx7 in cmsgt4 and the r34 in the touge

But the gtfour was also faster than the MR2 which was faster than the supra.

Kanoodle
02-16-2010, 11:10 PM
In the first link the alltrac around one of the right hand corners I can swear I saw the right rear tire come off the ground from body roll.. Anyone else see that or am I imagining things?

cms-gt4
02-16-2010, 11:15 PM
Likely. I have raised my inside rear tire many times during autox and have seen pics of other alltracs lifting the rear. I think a clutch rear diff better suits the car due to this since the torsen does not function right with a wheel in the air.

grayscale
02-16-2010, 11:45 PM
In the first link the alltrac around one of the right hand corners I can swear I saw the right rear tire come off the ground from body roll.. Anyone else see that or am I imagining things?

Actually about three or four of the cars lifted the inside rear. The NSX did not have a very good driver, he should have left the pack along with the RX-7 in the beginning. The GTR driver was not very good either, way too loose. I am rather displeased with the Supra showing though. What was that, an 88-89?

grayscale
02-16-2010, 11:55 PM
But the gtfour was also faster than the MR2 which was faster than the supra.

Sadly, no sir, I must admit, as far as Toyotas it went Supra-MR2-Celica. The MR2's fastest lap was .63 seconds faster.

What was that ugly little black four door car, looked like a Sentra?

T-spoon
02-17-2010, 12:36 AM
I wouldn't really put ANY stock whatsoever in that "race". The supra and 300zx should have been much faster, after all, that's a 1jzgte Supra, not a weaksauce stock USDM 7m. Same with the NSX, skyline, etc. The big power advantages weren't even seen/utilized in that start or the straights and there was so much tire squeeling and slop and driver variation that honestly, it's entertaining but in no way really indicative of the performance comparisons of the cars. I think the little black car was a Mitsu of some kind?


the rx7 in cmsgt4 and the r34 in the touge

Except that the MRS was faster running by itself I think, so ehhh :dunno:


I am rather displeased with the Supra showing though. What was that, an 88-89?

Later, 90-92 based on the spoiler

Idiot Stick
02-17-2010, 01:15 AM
What was that ugly little black four door car, looked like a Sentra?

92ish Evo. We've been seeing them around Canada quite a bit now. They are nifty little rigs for sure!

cms-gt4
02-17-2010, 05:47 AM
Sadly, no sir, I must admit, as far as Toyotas it went Supra-MR2-Celica. The MR2's fastest lap was .63 seconds faster.

What was that ugly little black four door car, looked like a Sentra?

Where did it show that? I did not notice any text and the video just ends with the MR2 behind the celica so I assumed he had beat him.
I agree not to put too much into these top motoring type races, they are a bit skewed. However, the 300zx is a lard ass and not as nimble as many might think.

T-spoon
02-17-2010, 05:51 AM
Dunno, the 300zx did great in the late 80s early 90s in the car and driver type mags, but never driven one myself, so can't comment on that personally.

grayscale
02-17-2010, 11:15 AM
:DFor those of you still new to the world of YouTube, here is the second half of the video-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6okS8uZS4M&feature=related

grayscale
02-17-2010, 11:18 AM
92ish Evo. We've been seeing them around Canada quite a bit now. They are nifty little rigs for sure!

Ah I see, that explains the ugliness.

cms-gt4
02-17-2010, 04:58 PM
So there are two sets of times. What looks like fastest lap, and fastest over all time.

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/9589/screenshot20100217at115.png

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/9589/screenshot20100217at115.png

RedRkt01
02-17-2010, 06:23 PM
Never worry about snap oversteer in my car. . .
I think this is a mute point. The only similarities between these cars is the engine. Is a car that's easier to drive at the limit make it better? Or one that requires different skills and is more challenging at the limit? Jet fighters are agile because they are inherently unstable. Does this make them better than an SR-71?
Both have advantages and disadvantages. Like what you like. I dig 'em both.

I take comfort in owning the superior platform. LOL!:look:

This is true, cappy, but which handles better during a V1 cut? That's all I'm saying.....That's why I'm type rated in the ST165 only :dunno:

Ricksta
02-17-2010, 07:30 PM
jesus wtf happened to this thread and wtf is up with the poll lol

Luni
02-17-2010, 08:52 PM
Those are both single lap times.. Did they only race one lap?

cms-gt4
02-17-2010, 09:56 PM
Jesus, you right. I really need to pay attention today. I feel like I got a hang over.

DudeMan
02-17-2010, 10:08 PM
This site needs a Japanese guy around to translate things like this.

85gtsblackman
02-18-2010, 09:00 AM
id never put a 3sgte in a 3rd gen

why do that when i can do a 2jz or any v8

shoulda put my beater up there

oh and FRONT engine REAR WHEEL DRIVE ownz all

Simonhla
03-15-2010, 02:29 AM
I love the alltrac. When I sold the Gt i wanted to get one and just really mod the hell out of it but Wifey wanted something more modern and more comfortable.

Can't complain, ended up with a bmw 330ci. As the previous poster stated, front engine RWD *****.

Still can't help wondering what could have been with the alltrac though. I guess I'll never know now.

lue
03-29-2010, 02:47 AM
MR2 better for DRAG!

vangls14
04-01-2010, 07:03 AM
My vote is for Vip on a red tricycle. It's gotta hit 14.7 secs in the 1/4 mile and he will be the only one to be able to do, EVAR.

Hipster Lawrence
04-01-2010, 02:06 PM
Mk1 mr2 is the best car ever made.

Shadowlife25
04-05-2010, 12:26 PM
You sir, are biased. ;)

Though I loved your 2 last year, so I will lend you some agreement. :)

Hipster Lawrence
04-09-2010, 02:05 AM
Ha ha whenever a really nice car comes into the shop and all the guys are drooling over it I'll walk over and be like, "It's a nice car it's no MR2 but it's a nice car"

Needles to say the guys at work think I'm crazy.

my new mk1 is nowhere near as clean as the silver car was but it's getting there. It is faster and handles better. And the sound of open itbs at 7500 gives me a semi every time.

Ricksta
04-23-2010, 05:13 PM
do you know how epic i am? do you know how legendary i am? so legendary/epic that my thread is still going after 3 years foo!

sodap0p
04-23-2010, 05:48 PM
I am not biased as I own both. If you're looking for speed (1/4mile runs and such(which you are)) go with the 2. It does handle amazing once you learn how to drive it. I have broken it loose twice so far, and have learned lots from those incidents.

allTRACway
04-27-2010, 10:07 PM
i own an alltrac and have gotten a ride in a first gen mr2 never driven one so i wont bash the mr2 idea i love my alltrac just because it just fits me for size and when it comes down to looks (yeah i know your talking performance) id look at an alltrac before a mr2. thats what i think and to each there own

goretro77
04-28-2010, 12:30 AM
I'll take the MR2. To each his own.

vangls14
04-28-2010, 02:39 AM
^Sweet MR2...er, I mean Lotus, bias emm effer :) Seriously though, I love your car!

Siyx
04-28-2010, 10:35 PM
you have all been "RickstaRolled"
:eek4dance:
hehe